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Archive for Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Misinformation

September 17, 2008

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To the editor:

The following was printed in the New York Times on Sept. 12: "At a separate event on Thursday, a deployment ceremony for her son Track and thousands of other soldiers heading to Iraq from Fort Wainwright, Alaska, Sarah Palin told them they would be fighting 'the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans.'"

When did the people and government of Iraq suddenly become the enemies who planned and executed the 9/11 tragedy? Did I miss some piece of important information that Palin is aware of? When can we expect to hear the truth from the mouths of those who would seek our votes for their election to a post of leadership?

It has never been established, unless I missed an important announcement of fact, that the soldiers she is sending off (including her son) are going to fight the enemies that planned, carried out and rejoiced in the deaths of Americans. Our Congress, according to my Kansas senators, agreed to send our troops to Iraq to assist with the democratization of that country beginning with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

It appears Palin is more interested in believing a fabricated story about why her son is going to Iraq than to face the reality of why and speak of it honestly. This, in my opinion, proves her to be uninformed and a poor choice for the "heartbeat away" position - and a person willing to follow the already established status quo of arguments promoted by the same old Republican party.

Jane Gnojek,
Lawrence

Comments

BuffyloGal 6 years, 3 months ago

Over the top means an exaggeration. Iraq=al Qaeda means a lie. Keep cutting and pasting merrill.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 3 months ago

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMANPublished: September 13, 2008Imagine for a minute that attending the Republican convention in St. Paul, sitting in a skybox overlooking the convention floor, were observers from Russia, Iran and Venezuela. And imagine for a minute what these observers would have been doing when Rudy Giuliani led the delegates in a chant of "drill, baby, drill!"I'll tell you what they would have been doing: the Russian, Iranian and Venezuelan observers would have been up out of their seats, exchanging high-fives and joining in the chant louder than anyone in the hall - "Yes! Yes! Drill, America, drill!" - because an America that is focused first and foremost on drilling for oil is an America more focused on feeding its oil habit than kicking it.Why would Republicans, the party of business, want to focus our country on breathing life into a 19th-century technology - fossil fuels - rather than giving birth to a 21st-century technology - renewable energy? As I have argued before, it reminds me of someone who, on the eve of the I.T. revolution - on the eve of PCs and the Internet - is pounding the table for America to make more I.B.M. typewriters and carbon paper. "Typewriters, baby, typewriters." - why not throw all our energy into innovating a whole new industry of clean power with the mantra "invent, baby, invent?" That is what a party committed to "change" would really be doing.Obama may be a bit professorial, but at least he is trying to unite the country to face the real issues rather than divide us over cultural differences.Some McCain supporters criticize Obama for not having the steel in his belly to use force in the dangerous world we live in today. Well I know this: In order to use force, you have to have force. In order to exercise leverage, you have to have leverage.I don't know how much steel is in Obama's belly, but I do know that the issues he is focusing on in this campaign - improving education and health care, dealing with the deficit and forging a real energy policy based on building a whole new energy infrastructure - are the only way we can put steel back into America's spine. McCain, alas, has abandoned those issues for the culture-war strategy. Unless we make America the country most able to innovate, compete and win in the age of globalization, our leverage in the world will continue to slowly erode. Those are the issues this election needs to be about, because that is what the next four years need to be about.There is no strong leader without a strong country. And posing as one, to use the current vernacular, is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14friedman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

KS 6 years, 3 months ago

Merrill's mother is calling again. Go Sarah go. I guess folks don't think that Al Queda is in Iraq. I guess the folks that believe in the UN have forgotten about the UN sanctions and actions that aproved our going into Iraq. Perhaps if Saddam Hussien had come clean and not lied about his situation, he might still be alive today. Some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

Janet Cinelli 6 years, 3 months ago

Couple of facts to straighten up: KS: Al Queda wasn't in Iraq until we were! Guardian: The people you meantioned never ever believed or suggested that Iraq had any connection to 9-11. If you are going to respond to letters, at least stay on point!

Jim Phillips 6 years, 3 months ago

Funny how it wasn't a lie when Co-Presidents Clinton, Kennedy, Schumer, Biden, Pelosi, et al were claiming how much of a threat Iraq was before 2001. But I guess we forgot about that.

labmonkey 6 years, 3 months ago

Merrill-Do you not have an opinion of your own? Noone reads your massive cut and pastes. As for the LTE, Palin was giving these troops, who will be away from their families for a year a pep-talk. Sometimes when a coach gives a pep-talk, he says things that are over the top. This is what Palin is guilty of here.

TheYetiSpeaks 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh Jane, your thinking is so retro. You see, Jane, in today's world fighting in Iraq doesn't necessarily mean we are fighting Iraq. As you and I both know the Iraqis are actually our allies in this current fight. You see, in our government's bloodlust to take out Saddam, they did not really foresee the various groups that would move in on a weakened Iraq to fight for control....a pretty big mistake, but hey, stuff happens. Anyways among these groups, one of the largest and deadliest is a group known as Al Qaeda, those responsible for 9-11. So to sum up: The soldiers deploying now will be fighting "the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans". I know the world moves pretty fast these days, Jane. Lets try to keep up so the rest of us wont be subjected to this kind of tripe in the newspaper again. Thank you.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

To the LTE writer: You folks are so predictable. Your vitriolic hatred for anything that's not liberal Democrat has tainted your ability to interpret comments in context (the key phrase there is "in context").The NY Times quote that you mentioned said that Palin stated Track was going to fight those that planned, carried out, and rejoiced in the deaths of thousands of Americans. Um, how many soldiers have died fighting in Iraq? Over 4,000. Who planned, carried out, and rejoiced ever single one of those 4,000 deaths? The enemies that we're fighting against over there.You automatically inferred that she was linking Iraq to 9/11 when there was no such inference made. Please make an attempt to peer through the muddled haze of hatred that is clouding your vision and read statements in context.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 3 months ago

Tom says,"Panic in the Democratic ranks? You better believ there is."Nope. They're just ecstatic that 1) the game is finally on and 2) the wheels of the GOP wagon are coming off.It's a beautiful day for change!

Grundoon Luna 6 years, 3 months ago

Just becuase they blame his campaign doesnt' mean they did it. At this point it's only an accusation. Where's the proof.This is bait and switch. Like in the Texas governor's race when the the democratic opponent was accused of bugging the republican's office. There was never any proof, only an accusation and idiot bought in to it.Try again.

jhwk2008 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh, and Obama's up 286-252 on Real Clear Politics with no toss up states. Virginia is now for Obama. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10Where is this so called "panic in the ranks?"And where's Carly Fiorina? I miss her already? "Question: Do you think [Sarah Palin] has the experience to run a major company, like Hewlett Packard?Fiorina: No, I don't."And then she clarifies her remarks a few hours later. "Fiorina: Well I don't think John McCain could run a major corporation."

Grundoon Luna 6 years, 3 months ago

Palin suffers from rectal asphyxiation. She said the Wall Street crisis is due to lack of regulation and that we need much more regulation, then a moment later says government needs to get out of the way of private businesses. It's laughable!!We aren't paniced. I'm elated and want Sarah to keep on keepin' on. The more she talks the more she clearly demonstates she belongs no where near the position she is seeking. You go girl!! Show your stuff! This mamma's for Obama!!

jhwk2008 6 years, 3 months ago

XD40 says: "The Obambi campaign continues to circle the drain."Really? Obama's +2 in the latest Reuters/Zogby and +3 in the latest Hotline/FD Tracking.So did John McCain really invent the Blackberry?

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

jhwk2008: Statistical dead heat. It's within the margin of error in both polls. I don't agree that Obama's campaign is "circling the drain" -- he's a worthy opponent but has made a few missteps just as McCain has.Regarding the comment about McCain inventing the Blackberry....you guys are hilarious. Go back to my comment to the LTE writer about reading in context. The campaign guy who was responding to the reporter about what McCain has done for the Teleco industry pointed to his Blackberry and said, "He's done this," and then went on to talk about his work in legislation that helps the Teleco industry innovate. The allusion to the Blackberry was a metaphor to telecommunication. Now if he'd said, just as Algore did regarding the Internet, that John McCain invented the Blackberry then that changes everything.This Blackberry thing is as stupid as the lipstick on a pig comment. The right was wrong to jump on Obama's statement there because it didn't make any sense. He had nothing to gain in calling Palin a pig and everything to lose. Likewise, who in their right mind would say that a politician invented one of the most innovative devices in the last decade? Besides, Algore....

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@BuffyloGal:Regardless of what you think about money to the military, that's the only Constitutional mandate that the Feds really have. Everything else that is imposed on us is due to vague language in the Preamble around "general Welfare", "insure domestic Tranquility", and "secure the Blessings of Liberty". Common defense is clearly the govt's job.Your statement is an case study in hyperbole. There are many people that the US govt doesn't agree with but are not killing. Please bring some semblance of sane approach and logic to the discussion or it's not worth engaging.BTW: That's the biggest complaint I have about libs...they're driven by emotion and feelings, not logic. I know that there are many on the right that come to the debate with the same invectives and I cringe when I see them. They make us look bad. I personally think we can have a honest debate but, just like our leaders in DC, most people want to blindly follow their worldview and cling to emotionalism vs. reasoning.

Chris Golledge 6 years, 3 months ago

Sarah's comment was skillfully oblique.There are those who believe the Bush innuendo that Iraq and 9/11 were connected; I know some. Fear pandering. Her comment means one thing to them; it can mean something else to those that know better, like Yeti. It works for those who would support her and can be re-interpreted in different ways to counter her detractors. Make no mistake; she was talking to the media, even if she was addressing the troops.Just counting the dollars, the Iraq war has cost us over $500,000,000,000; it will continue to cost us $100,000,000,000 per year. There are 300,000,000 people in the us. So, ask yourself, "Have I gotten $1,700 worth of good out of this war?"Are there things we could be doing with the money at home?Obama seeks an ASAP end to the loss of life and our financial drain and Sarah cuts him down for it. Go figure.And why is it that Obama beats McCain and Biden simply outclasses Palin, yet somehow there are a lot of people all excited about McCain+Palin?

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 3 months ago

jason2007 (Anonymous) says:"Statistical dead heat."True, but the real news is in the details. Obama gained with independents and women, a voter demographic that will likely decide the election. Palin has shored up Republican party support, which they desperately needed, but she also shored up Democrat support for Obama, which practically erases the gain she built in giving Republicans a reason not to stay home 11/4. Obama also gained to a "statistical dead heat" score on the question of who could best manage the economy and gained among Catholics and older voters.jason2007 (Anonymous) says:'I would have responded with, "Is this what they teach you at the Princeton School of Journalism? Talk about getting to the point and asking a specific question."Bush's doctrine on what?! Energy policy? Iraq? Iran? N. Korea? AIDS assistance to Africa? Saving the Spotted Owl?'I think it is truly amazing that people didn't even know what the Bush Doctrine is. It's been fairly well covered and, at the time, earned the moniker since it represented a major departure from the history and tenor of US foreign policy. If the GOP candidate for VP doesn't even know what that is, much less that it is a policy voiced by the current GOP President, that is a clear indication that they are very weak in foreign policy. Further to that end, she seemed a bit too eager to commit US forces to other conflicts (Georgia, in particular). That's precisely why it made headlines. I suspect that war-weary Americans are leery of someone that comes off as trigger-happy like she did. Use of military force should be the last resort and only when it is absolutely necessary.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@ndmoderate:Bill Clinton, is that you? Does the definition of the word "is" mean anything? This attempt at parsing is very amusing.Regardless of whether or not the word "initiative" is used changes nothing. If I say, "I created a water heater today" vs. "I took the initiative to create a water heater today" is exactly the same. Both infer initiative just by the simple fact that I created something. The key is "create" which Algore said. He created nothing and I know he mispoke nor does he believe that the Internet leaped into existence at his solemn command. My point in all of this was how people are saying that McCain said he invented the Blackberry when the campaign manager pointed at his device and said, "He did this." Quite different from "I took the initiative in creating the Internet..."

BuffyloGal 6 years, 3 months ago

So we elect people on the basis of charisma? What is this, Sims?

bearded_gnome 6 years, 3 months ago

always remember:"Barack was a community organizer, like Jesus was." Said by a demorat u.s. rep on the floor of the house of representatives during the week of 9-11. Barack is "the One."

Grundoon Luna 6 years, 3 months ago

Gnome:If you think the dems are in a panic because of the things we are saying then you necons should be moments from a complete emotional collapse. Ready the stretchers and plenty of Oxycontin! Stat!!The right keeps blaring that tired old line: "You better watch what you're saying? You democrats are going to blow it if you keep that up. The public doesn't like that." yawn That is a total crock and you know it. Not only is that junior high, if true you all would never win! You all are just grasping at anything to shut us up. So put a sock in that worn out schpiel and deal with the issues. Oh, wait, you can't because you don't have an argument because your party has completely screwed the pooch and can no longer be trusted to lead. Me? I know I have attitude and say so up front (see my screen name). But, you? You neocons spout virulent garbage non-stop and accuse others of worse. What? Do you think if you project your behavior on to others it won't be noticed in you?" Sheee-yah! You need analysis, man. McSame and Palame are goin' down and it becomes more and more clear as each day passes. Deal with it.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

Ok, I read the snopes article. He specifically said, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet..." I don't care if the author of the article labeled this as False or not. The words don't lie. He said beyond any misinterpretation that he created the Internet.Perhaps you should consider changing your forum name from LogicSound to BelieveWhatIWantRegardlessOfLogic.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 3 months ago

of Americans. Um, how many soldiers have died fighting in Iraq? Over 4,000. Who planned, carried out, and rejoiced ever single one of those 4,000 deaths?The enemies that we're fighting against over there.---include in that Merrill himself, as he has praised the terrorists blowing up our troops in Iraq...maybe we need to send some troops to his neighborhood? just look at his posting history early '07, and throughout '06!. Jason, good job fella. you're right on. you catch the story out this afternoon, the nutcase uncivil left, like these you're facing here, have hacked into Sarah's private Yahoo e-mail account, and those of her family? That's what you're dealing with here, and the LTE writer. total lack of civility and morals.
I'd say executive experience is pretty important, and some of the antimilitary left on here (Logicunsound for example) love to overlook McCain's executive experience in uniform! funny how the LTE writer took Sarah's comments out of context, rush to franticly smear Sarah. Sarah is a governor (like Bill Clinton, Jimma carta), and was a mayor. Mayors are like community organizers, only they have to make decisions and execute them!it tells us much about how serious a threat Sarah is to them Jason. By their responses, clearly she is quite a huge threat. and the comments about the electoral college vote totals happily gloss over the trend of Obama losing states left and right. another two weeks at this rate, and the electoral college map will look like: landslide for McCain/Palin! anyway Jason (and XD40) good job, and the panic among the demorats is very clear indeed. Keep it up boys!

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

LogicSound: You've got to be kidding, right? And Obama is the "informed choice"? Give me a break. He's been in the Senate for only a few years now, before that Illinois legislature. That's the extent of his knowledge of how executive leadership works which is very slim.Say what you will about Palin (and I know you will) but she has had executive experience at the city and state level. I'll take her executive experience any day over Obama.And regarding foreign policy stuff: Clinton was miserable on foreign policy (if you remember, he was only a governor of a state prior to becoming President) but over time learned the ropes well.I also think the debates are going to go to McCain/Palin as well. Palin will mop the floor with "Hey, Chuck stand up! Oh my, God love you what am I talking about?" Biden with her quick wit. Like it or not, charisma plays much more heavily than anyone wants to admit and Biden is a putz when it comes to charisma.Bring on Sept. 26!

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@LogicSound:Apparently we don't operate on the system of "measurement". I'm working from a meter stick and you're looking at a foot-long ruler.I'm not concerned with how I "sound". I just have to speak it the way it is and do so with respect and honesty.@BuffyloGal:Did you marry the first guy you fell in love with? Probably not. Why is that? Why did your emotions let you down? It's because emotions cloud reason and clear thought. In my own life (and many others I know), I look back on that first person I loved and wonder to myself, "How in the world did I fall for that? Thank goodness it didn't work out."That's what I'm talking about. Emotionalism is a notoriously inaccurate guidepost to correct decisions. I'm not saying you have to be a Vulcan (note to self: try to figure out why Libs always swing wildly in their extremes of approaching issues -- it's either 100% one way or 100% the other), I have compassion towards people but sometimes that best outcome has some pain involved with it.I just don't believe in removing pain for one group of individuals (rote compassion) at the expense and pain of another group of individuals (successful folks whose money socialism takes).At the end of the day, liberalism is easy: you see an injustice and you shed tears. Conservatism is hard. It requires an understanding of what is causing the problem in a person's life, it requires that person to take responsibility for their part of the problem, and it requires action to change a life for a better outcome.@BeardedGnome:Thanks, as always! I've missed seeing you lately in the forums I've participated in. Most of 'em have been sports related so that may be why.....:)

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@BuffyloGal: This seems to be epidemic in the forum today...Ready my post in its entirety and in context.I said, "Like it or not, charisma plays much more heavily than anyone wants to admit..." I never said that we elect people based on charisma nor did I say I invented the Internet or the Blackberry.@duplenty:You guys are more fun to watch than an episode of Chapelle. Charlie's question was "Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?"I would have responded with, "Is this what they teach you at the Princeton School of Journalism? Talk about getting to the point and asking a specific question."Bush's doctrine on what?! Energy policy? Iraq? Iran? N. Korea? AIDS assistance to Africa? Saving the Spotted Owl?Obama would have responded to the same question with a meandering soliloquy on how we should all cough up our income checks to him so he can redistribute to those in need and that we should talk to people who want to kill us.

BuffyloGal 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, much better to give our income to the Pentagon so they can kill anyone who doesn't agree with our limited worldview. That's just what the economy and our standing in the world needs right now.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

Logic: Executive experience doesn't matter to me. I know many people who are executive in title but terrible executives. Likewise, I know many who are just worker bees but "get it" when it comes to the qualities that make executives great. That's what I look for: Do they have a track record for getting things done? Do they have the leadership qualities that it takes to succeed? Do they reflect my worldview? I was responding to your point that Obama was the "informed choice".I call him Charlie...you can call him Bob for all I care...I never said one thing about Obama's charisma so please don't lump me in with everyone else that you hate (man you guys are an unhappy bunch of people).Regarding "inventing" vs. "creating": http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inventThey're synonyms. Again, you can call it Bob for all I care but inventing, creating....Algore said he made it.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@Flock:What you say regarding the polls is true. It's going to be close no matter how you slice it and the debates are going to be huge determiners on which way this goes.Regarding the Bush Doctrine, I would have responded the same way. Imagine if Palin had simply assumed she knew what Gibson was talking about and started in on her point of view on pre-emptive attack but then had Gibson follow up with, that's not what I was referring to at all, Governor. I was talking about the Bush Doctrine on the economy.Gibson would have made her a laughing stock with the libs who laud his style of journalism. She was in hostile territory with the Gibson interview and she knew it. I would have made him clarify every open-ended question as well just to be sure there weren't any gotachas at the end of the day.Gibson would have been a hero on DailyKos, HuffingtonPost, and Digg if he could have trapped Palin in a "you look stupid" moment.I don't agree with the "last resort" statement that you made. In most cases that is true but every situation warrants its own unique assessment of the threat and potential benefit to diplomacy. If the Coast Guard spots a Chinese Type 093 ballistic missile sub off the coast of Virginia opening its hatches and readying a launch, I certainly hope we don't engage China in a frank discussion of the current crisis or ask their Ambassador over to the WH for tea.

RobertMarble 6 years, 3 months ago

so the hussein obabm campaing is now hacking the opposition's emails eh? what'll be next, the voting machines? this speaks volumes about the integrity of those who continue so support him.

Jason Bailey 6 years, 3 months ago

@LogicSound:I had expected my last post to be it for the day but saw that you posted another..... I'll take another stab...When I was watching the interview and Charlie asked the question, my immediate response that I said to the TV outloud was, "what part of the Bush Doctrine?"My original statement about "what part? The Economy? Spotted Owls?" was tongue-in-cheek. Let's break it down:There are four facets to the Bush Doctrine and to discuss all of them in a short interview would take far too long to Palin was attempting to get Charlie to hone in on one area, if she could (that's what I'd do) and to make him clarify.The Bush Doctrine is broken into:1) Preemption2) Military Primacy3) New Multilateralism4) DemocratizationFew would deny #2 and #4 and perhaps Palin was trying to find out if Charlie wanted her to talk about the BD as it pertains to Preemption and Multilateralism. This really isn't hard to understand why she asked for clarification. It's a complex approach to terrorism that requires clarification to address it correctly.

Confrontation 6 years, 3 months ago

A stupid bimbo who was in beauty pageants shouldn't be expected to know more than your average 2nd grader. No offense to the 2nd grader. Palin continues to prove her extreme lack of intelligence. Her idiocy is exactly what attracts Repub men to her.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 3 months ago

jason2007 says..."but then had Gibson follow up with, that's not what I was referring to at all, Governor. I was talking about the Bush Doctrine on the economy."Frankly, it would not have scored any points with anyone that knows what Bush Doctrine means. It would have just made Gibson look silly."If the Coast Guard spots a Chinese Type 093 ballistic missile sub off the coast of Virginia opening its hatches and readying a launch,"That would be an act of war, and there are several similar scenarios that would fall into that category. Responding to those situations would not amount to a pre-emptive strike. However, the US and other countries routinely engage in military maneuvers that are intended to intimidate or at least test the responses of other nations. I can think of several that I have personally participated in. Having served in our armed forces outside the US, I can tell you that you would be surprised at some of the things that have happened that did not make the news.

ndmoderate 6 years, 3 months ago

Re:"I took initiative in creating the Internet"does not equal"I invented the internet"Jason, although creating and inventing can be synonymous, the issue at hand is the word "initiative." I'm no huge fan of Al Gore, but I must say that he never stated or believed that he invented the internet.

BuffyloGal 6 years, 3 months ago

Libs are too emotional. Perhaps because we care about our fellow man and let emotions rule the day. I should be more Vulcan in my responses in future and plan on less government regulation to cure all of our nation's woes. Yeah, that'll work.

RobertMarble 6 years, 3 months ago

i'm sure azure and the other hussein supporters would be singing a different tune had it been hussein's emails. that is undeniable....and it is a fact that no rioting or vandalism occured at the dnc, only at the rnc. but where is the moral outrage from the libs on this matter? oh wait, there isn't any. nice try az, but condoning criminal acts is not good no matter how you try to spin it.

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