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Archive for Friday, October 10, 2008

Civic duty

October 10, 2008

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To the editor:

I have never written a letter to the editor before now, but the tone of debate among some Lawrence citizens over whether or not the T should be continued has caused me to speak up.

I work for a well-known nonprofit in Lawrence and the individuals supported at my place of employment are able to hold jobs in the community, shop or go to appointments on their own ONLY because public transportation is available to them. If this independence is lost, the cost to the community to support these individuals in other ways may be more significant than the 25-cent tax per $100 of sales revenue that the city is proposing.

And what about civic responsibility? I always thought part of being an American was to lift up those less fortunate than ourselves. We all know that Lawrence has more than its share of cars on the road, yet there are many individuals, disabled, seniors, youths and the working poor who do not have access to transportation other than through the public system.

The beauty of Lawrence, the quality of its schools and the obvious local support of the community confirms that the citizens of Lawrence take great pride in their city. I agree that there is much room for improvement, but I'm willing to forgo a couple of sodas a week so my fellow citizens who need access to public transportation have what they need to continue living productively in the Lawrence community. Join me?

Karen Lowder,
Lawrence

Comments

grimpeur 5 years, 6 months ago

Satirical, less than a quarter of road improvements and construction is paid for by gas taxes. So the user fee is paid by everyone, and motorists are largely insulated from the true and complete costs they impose on society, especially those who drive every little trip when they could walk, or those who choose to live long distances from work, school, etc.

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scribe 5 years, 6 months ago

none 2 & jack, chill brothers. it is what it is. a system to move the people that DON'T HAVE to where they need to be so they CAN HAVE...and these people will also be sharing in the cost of the t, cause they shop too. keep them in jobs and they will pay taxes like you and me, none2 & jack. you guys fight like you're related or something.

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

(continued)The T is a poorly designed system designed by the few, for the few, at the expense of all. As I have said UMPTEEN times, most people do NOT fault the elderly or the disabled who need para-transit. Still pro-T people will throw out emotional rantings and ravings that people against the T want to stomp on the elderly and the disabled. I guess some people will say anything to get sympathy for their cause.What bothers most people with common sense is the fixed route T. Instead of buying over-sized, under-utilized buses, they should have started with small vehicles and grew into largers vehicles AS THE DEMAND grew. It is a disgrace to every tax payer to see these large emp-T buses going down the road. How stupid where the people that came up with the T? When I take the shuttle to KCI, do you think that GTI should provide a full sized bus for just a handful of people? No. They couldn't stay in business if they did something that stupid. So why is it ok for a government that has OUR money to do whatever they want without being accountable to the tax payers? Don't question it because they are the government? Don't question it because they say it is for the poor, elderly, and disabled? Plus is only 1% of the population (that percentage riding the T) poor? Perhaps even the poor think that the T leaves a lot to be desired.

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:nota, whoops none2, you two are about the same, I'm delusional?! I've hardly said I've know it all but you come up with your wild analysis that you should focus on the issues then maybe you will see that the car isn't just more convenient for many things because nature made it that way but instead the government build everything to make it convenient from the same taxes we all pay and would like to see a balance that doesn't create a world that is made only for car centric living. How in the world as we watch the economy crumble down around us after years of following your policies can you possible think it could be much worse? By the way, Europe constantly comes up in polls as having a higher standard of living then we do and they are much more socialist and have all these same options we are discussing. So I guess you are striving to keep our standard of living in this country low are you?------------------------------------------------So now I'm a policy maker? Last time I looked I neither ran for office norwas appointed to office. I don't even work for the government bureaucracy that you would oh so much love to expand. As to comparing Lawrence to somewhere else, have you ever even LIVED outside this country? Perhaps if you had you would understand that all things aren't the same everywhere. Much of Europe is more densely populated than the US. In their large cities, yes public transportation is abundant. However, that isn't so much the case for smaller places that aren't on the beaten tourist route. Sure we have densities in large cities or population corridors like California and the northeast. In those places, they do have fairly successful public transportation. By public transportation, I mean transportation used by the masses -- regardless if it is controlled by the government or a company. In the Philippines, they do have nationalized rail, but the bus systems tend to be independent of the government -- at least that was the case 30 years ago.Lawrence is neither in Asia nor in Europe. It is just a town of around 90,000 in the mid-west of the USA. (I'm not sure whether our population count includes students or not. I believe it doesn't include students living on campus.) We are not a large metropolitan area. We also have KU on Wheels which provides most of the needs for the largest block of residents who would be natural fit for public transportation -- that being one main destination -- somewhere on campus. (continued)

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

Oh and by the way beobubba, Though I don't have anybody in the public schools, I would gladly pay more taxes to the school system and would continue to do so even if it does nothing to improve your mind.

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says:none2, a prime example of the idiots in this town. its all me, me, me, me::::::::::..------------------------------------------Beobubba, are you one of those give me, give me, give me...... people, or are you just a fool?

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

"I don't feel the need to control others and to force their thoughts towards the idea that I'm entitled to something from them by shaming them into giving me their money.'Exactly what do you think the highway system and all the parking and etc that go along with car centricism is? It is forcing everybody who needs transportation to chose the car and this is all brought about by the government using tax money to make it happen. It is so stupid to look at it as anything other then transportation, that is what we are talking about and if the gov is going to be involved then it should be making decisions based on what is best for everyone.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

nota, whoops none2, you two are about the same, I'm delusional?! I've hardly said I've know it all but you come up with your wild analysis that you should focus on the issues then maybe you will see that the car isn't just more convenient for many things because nature made it that way but instead the government build everything to make it convenient from the same taxes we all pay and would like to see a balance that doesn't create a world that is made only for car centric living. How in the world as we watch the economy crumble down around us after years of following your policies can you possible think it could be much worse? By the way, Europe constantly comes up in polls as having a higher standard of living then we do and they are much more socialist and have all these same options we are discussing. So I guess you are striving to keep our standard of living in this country low are you?

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beobachter 5 years, 6 months ago

none2, a prime example of the idiots in this town. its all me, me, me, me................................

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:oh none2 I see you are as empty of thought as your friend nota, just stick with the status quo, the only answer for such heavy weights. I have nothing against cars, enjoy them myself but unlike you to I see a sense of balance and see levels of efficiencies that come from using mass transit. If you want to just continue drooling on yourself while the world changes keep it up since you are vacant of ideas like nota and you always have to resort to analysing why someone would challenge the status quo. I'm in good company and glad to be in the company of the people who don't go right along with the status quo. Oh I imagine you and nota would have been ready to burn Copernicus and Galileo when they challenged the earth in the middle of the universe too.-----------------------------------------There is nothing like a self-deceived person. Keep telling yourself you know it all. I'm sure you'll attract plenty of people in the same way that a radical radio talk celebrity does. In the mean time, feel free to keep the company you so ever wish. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to control others and to force their thoughts towards the idea that I'm ENTITLED to something from them by shaming them into giving me their money. If somehow you think that is an enlightened idea, keep thinking. Perhaps one day you'll get out of your delusional rut if you try thinking long enough. The status quo isn't cars, it is selfish entitlements. You don't want balance, you want more, and more, and more like the glutton who doesn't know when to leave the table.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

oh none2 I see you are as empty of thought as your friend nota, just stick with the status quo, the only answer for such heavy weights. I have nothing against cars, enjoy them myself but unlike you to I see a sense of balance and see levels of efficiencies that come from using mass transit. If you want to just continue drooling on yourself while the world changes keep it up since you are vacant of ideas like nota and you always have to resort to analysing why someone would challenge the status quo. I'm in good company and glad to be in the company of the people who don't go right along with the status quo. Oh I imagine you and nota would have been ready to burn Copernicus and Galileo when they challenged the earth in the middle of the universe too.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 5 years, 6 months ago

So weary of the self-serving Larryvillains.

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cle 5 years, 6 months ago

hawkperchedatriverfrontIts very clear you have no idea what you are talking about. I think, if you will re-read Karen's letter you will see she is talking about transportation to jobs in the community, shopping or going to appointments on their own. Further proof of your reading skills are the simple fact that only 2 people here have stated they work for this agency. Myself and Karen.To paraphrase, and I feel this applies to you."A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Waste', don't do it.

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:none2:"Keep in mind that even if you could pull this off, the hearts and minds of most of the people would not be to ride the T. "Just an other dimwitted statement because where the buses work well they are the easiest way to get around. It seems apparent from your tone that you must be anti-social and your real grip is having to be social with people so you'd rather be in your lethal weapon car so you can teach people not to mess with you.Just like we have the bridge to no-where, the T is the wheels to no-where.The bridge goes right where it should, to an empty field of promises by our developer community. I guess if you are really the dense not to be able to tell the bus does go somewhere you shouldn't be discussing it.----------------------------------------------JR, Are you off your medications again? Please get back on them, so that you have something to say for a change -- instead of this ranting and raving about cars. Did your parents leave you at an orphanage and the last thing you recall is their driving off? Did a date once get out of the car and leave you all alone? Did you get your own driver's license revoked due to drug or alcohol abuse? Perhaps you watched too many of those horror movies of the genre involving a vehicle and an unknown driver? (Guess what? Those movies were make believe; they weren't documentaries. ) Perhaps you once killed a kitty or a puppy due to poor driving? Regardless of what has triggered your paranoia about cars and the fear of drivers, you really need to get a grip on yourself and seek out some serious counseling.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

none2: "Keep in mind that even if you could pull this off, the hearts and minds of most of the people would not be to ride the T. "Just an other dimwitted statement because where the buses work well they are the easiest way to get around. It seems apparent from your tone that you must be anti-social and your real grip is having to be social with people so you'd rather be in your lethal weapon car so you can teach people not to mess with you.Just like we have the bridge to no-where, the T is the wheels to no-where.The bridge goes right where it should, to an empty field of promises by our developer community. I guess if you are really the dense not to be able to tell the bus does go somewhere you shouldn't be discussing it.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

Gosh none2 you are very much like your bud nota, did I say everybody? The commissioners and city hall employees unless there is some reason that won't work for them should be using it so they can be sure to understand where improvements could be made. Make it free for them, make it free for everybody, just like the free parking lots available downtown that encourage people to drive. You seem to be the only one wanting to end options for people. The car will still be available but you want to finish off the bus so the car is the only option. Who is power hungry?

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TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 6 months ago

"Keeping our money to feed and clothe our own, is in NO way selfish." Yes, I'm sure the daily struggle that is your life is the stuff of after school specials. I wonder how many rooms are in the house you live in? I wonder what kind of car you drive? I wonder just how much pocket change you waste a day and dont even care. Typical Lawrence, hypocritical, stuck up, and yes....selfish, trash.

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 6 months ago

So, Jafs and Karen work for the non profit, how many more work there? Tell me, now that we have two and assuming that Jafs and Karen each have a car, why they cannot take a total of 6 people to work. Gee, some caring folks karen and Jafs are. Don't even want anyone riding with them, just think of the extra gas saved and the global warming effect not to mention the chance to sociaize with the less unfortunate in stead of making a living off of them.Vote NOVote EarlyVote Twice if u can get away with it.Tell your out of town friends and family that Lawrence wants to make it again more expensive for us and them.ASk each merchant to reduce their goods by the price of the new sales tax.

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Defender 5 years, 6 months ago

"What a negative, selfish, grim burg' this town has become."The next time some idiot uses the word "selfish" in the debate over the T, the idiot should be immediatly thrown in jail for being so dishonest. Keeping our money to feed and clothe our own, is in NO way selfish. Your comment is the mark of a selfish individual. Pay YOUR own way, period.

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TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 6 months ago

Welcome to Lawrence: The answer is No. What a negative, selfish, grim burg' this town has become.

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 6 months ago

cle or clo , or whatever. I have used the T and find it the most embarassing bus system for a university community that is supposed to be intelligent. cle or CLO or whatever, I rode buses 50 years ago. And if they had run that bus system in a major city as this is run, it would have been hijacked and outrage.The pro T folks for the most part with the signs in the yards don't even ride it. This T issue is more a vote against "developers, pro business, landlords, anyone who doesn't agree with the socialists in the community": Sadly the anti T votes are not at all agains a bus system. That is what they want but they want the city commission with all of their expertise and the new auditor to figure out how to run it since the previous commissions were not bright enough.No one ever said that Lawrence got 100 watt light bulbs for city leaders or advisory groups.Vote NO,Vote EarlyVote Often, Tell your out of town friends who shop here to NOT shop here if the vote passes.Oh, I like scribe's comments. AFTER IT PASSES, we are supposed to do something to fix it. Why not fix it first with the money on hand.Read my words carefully, if the sales tax passes, it will not be enough money. Property taxes will increase. Look the county is already going to raise the mill levy for their portion, and the city will as well.It don't make a hill of beans to me, because when the Depression of 2010 hits, the local socialists may be unemployed. We can only hope that KU lays off and the other social service agencies around town.Why can't Cottonwood employees give their "clients" a ride to word, If in fact, it costs $21.00 to transport each person, it would make more sense to have them stay at home and pay them $21. and get rid of the transportation vehicle.

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scribe 5 years, 6 months ago

How about this? If the T vote passes, why don't all you bright minds who oppose it, go down to the city and demand to be put on a citizens advisory committee to improve it? Or you could do the passive aggressive thing and drive your cars (of course you have cars, because you don't need the T) to Olathe, KC or Topeka to shop so you won't have to contribute your 50 cents to the leeches of society which you obviously so despise! What unhappy people you are.

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Satirical 5 years, 6 months ago

Cle:LOL, I read what you wrote, but obviously you didn't understand what I wrote so let me make it easier for you.You compared the argument of one should not be forced to pay for the T if one doesn't use it, to the argument of one should not pay for police/fire/military protection if one does not use it. The fallacy with your logic is that police/fire/military protection is a public good and therefore compels taxation (I gave you the Wikipedia link to make it easy for you, but obviously that didn't work). It is non-exclusive and non-rivalrous. There is also a "free-rider" problem if individuals had the option of whether to pay for such services. This is completely different from paying for a fleet of buses going to routes and at times which are inconvenient to most residents. The T is not a public good as defined and therefore paying taxes is optional.While you are free to make the argument one should fund the inefficient T system exactly as it is out of a sense of common good (why don't we give each indigent a helicopter for the common good?), equating the T to the police and fire is a fallacy.

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beobachter 5 years, 6 months ago

mooch, where does it say the government must build roads or airports?

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Larry_The_Moocher 5 years, 6 months ago

Maybe I missed something.... Can anyone tell me where it says that the government has to be in the transportation business?My position is not driven by emotion, but by business. Every one of you, on either side, if this money was comming directly out of your pocket would drop it like a brick. In the 50's and 60's families took care of their love ones... not passing their problems, what ever they might be onto the taxpayer.If you need a ride... do what I do, cut your entertainment, if you cut your entertainment and there is nothing left, then you should reconsider your position. Dont ask others, who might have more pride than you do, to pay your bills when you are taking food out of their families mouths.

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cle 5 years, 6 months ago

Satirical, I think I plainly stated " Common Good" not public good. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I understand the difference, do you?

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none2 5 years, 6 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:nomorebobsplease great points. I've wondered why we ran out of business the local guy and brought in a California company to do nothing but run the system, they don't own them. They should require the commissioners and city workers to use the bus. Get rid of the city lots except for people who really need to run around and make it work by making them use it. I'll guarantee you changes will be made.-------------------------------------------Why don't you just put a gun to everybody's head and say if they don't ride the T, you'll blow their head off. It must be very frustrating that you don't have this power. Keep in mind that even if you could pull this off, the hearts and minds of most of the people would not be to ride the T. Just like we have the bridge to no-where, the T is the wheels to no-where.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

nomorebobsplease great points. I've wondered why we ran out of business the local guy and brought in a California company to do nothing but run the system, they don't own them. They should require the commissioners and city workers to use the bus. Get rid of the city lots except for people who really need to run around and make it work by making them use it. I'll guarantee you changes will be made.

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couranna1 5 years, 6 months ago

vote no and then you will no longer have to pretend you are a viable city just the piece of S*** that lies between JOCO and Topekalawrence "A small town for small minds"kinda catchy huh

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Satirical 5 years, 6 months ago

nomorebobsplease....but, but, I am sure if we give the T money long enough they will eventually start spending it wisely.... or maybe they just need more money before they can be efficient...It's like giving an addict more of their drug because they promise to eventually quit.

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nomorebobsplease 5 years, 6 months ago

What I don't understand is - how did our city managers AND the mgmnt at the T allow this issue to go so long unregarded? For at least 2 years I have heard the complaint that the T was not user friendly. And I am sure that the transportation company and the commission itself has heard these complaints. I agree. For me to take the T to work, I would have to leave over an hour earlier and (if I remember) it wouldn't actually get me there on time. SOMEONE (or several someones) let this float along without action until suddenly there was a money crisis. Why didn't the commission take this up? Why didn't the transportation company come up with ideas? Why wait for the sh!t to hit the fan?Now they are not getting support over the sales tax issue because they didn't take any action before......and, unfortunately, I agree. I think we do need public transportation. I actually don't have too much of a problem with paying an additional sales tax for it.****BUT**there is no way in h*ll I'm going to approve handing over a bunch of money to people who don't have any idea of how to spend it wisely. No deal.(and yes, I think the bailout is one of the stupidest moves our government has made yet...and belive me-I think that's saying something!!!)

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Satirical 5 years, 6 months ago

cle..."I have never needed the police or fire services, why do I pay for them? Same logic you apparently are using."Obviously you don't understand what is and what is not a "public good." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_goodYou may disagree with whether or not people should agree to give their money to an inefficient transportation system in a small city when viable and more cost effective alternatives are available, but the bottom line is We the People still get to choose whether we want to give it to the government.

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JackRipper 5 years, 6 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says:1) Is this "well-known nonprofit" by any chance also supported by taxpayer dollars?Oh nota, you crack me up! Your concern about tax payer dollars while we bail out the airline and car companies, use general funds for the roads to everywhere, and the bailout last week that you supported go on you are worried about people in need being helped that isn't going to cost even a drop in the bucket compared to what you feel tax payer dollars should support. See the problem with free market in your sense of the word is when the morals that were held in the past are removed and it we become just like the rest of the animal world and the strong survive. You supposedly work for people in need, God help them!

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cle 5 years, 6 months ago

hawkperchedatriverfront, based on posts I'm seeing, it appears the No voters are the ones baswing their vote on emotions. Apparently, since you obviously don't use it, then its useless. Once again, think of the common good of all of us. I only drive on a very few streets, why should I pay to maintain them all? I don't visit or use any of the parks and recreational facilities, why should I pay for them? I have never needed the police or fire services, why do I pay for them? Same logic you apparently are using.

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 6 months ago

cle, why don't you take some of these folks to work with you in your CAR.

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Satirical 5 years, 6 months ago

Cle:Most taxes for road improvement come from a sales tax on fuel. So people who drive cars to pay for what they use.

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cle 5 years, 6 months ago

I think you will notice I suggested changing the system from a single hub and spoke to a grid. That alone would increase ridership. The T is a needed service, just as road maintenance is. I'm assuming you use a car to get around town therefore I'm sure you understand the roads are paid by everyone whether or not they use them. Do you honestly believe that your individual amount of taxes paid cover the wear and tear your vehicle cost the city? Why does anyone not owning a car have to pay taxes to support your usage? Obviously you fail to understand the concept of common good. I don't think wikipedia is the best source to quote, but in this case it gives a reasonable explanation.

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 6 months ago

Karen Lowder, of course you think it is a civic duty.Let me tell you hon, if your employer paid some property taxes there would be more money for these "eperiements" such as the T. You see Ms. Lowder a sales tax makes sense for a not for profit.cle, the pressure won't come unless there is a resounding NO votE. CLE, pressure doesn't come unless something or someone is under pressure.Vote NO, very often, vote early and inform your out of town friends who shop in Lawrence that Lawrence is now becoming not only business unfriendly, but shopper unfriendly with the idea of a higher sales tax.cle, we understand quiite welll what the T is. It is not a bus system that is what it is, just as the KU bus system is not a bus system. Tell me why every bus has to head to downtown Lawrence. YOu speak of transfers, that is what bussing is about in a town, transfer and pay for the transfer as well.Vote NO cle , use reason instead of emotion to keep the system running. PUt the burden on the city auditor, city manager, and city commission. They are cowards.

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cle 5 years, 6 months ago

I work with Karen and I also support a yes vote. It's obvious the people against the T do not understand what it is. It will be a lot easier to change and make it more efficient than it will be to start over from nothing. Not everyone wants to go downtown and then transfer after a 20 minute wait. It needs to run more on a grid system with routes on north south street and east west streets and transfers where they cross. Vote yes, then pressure the council to make the needed changes.

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Mimis_friend 5 years, 6 months ago

I agree with you Satirical. We need the T, but we need it to be efficient, Why hasn't this service joined the KU service? It would be a great idea to join them and let seniors, disabled, etc, ride with students. Maybe that would educate students a little more to see those less fortunate than themselves.

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Satirical 5 years, 6 months ago

Karen is totally right...We are forced to vote for a regressive sales tax, which will burden indigents as well as the affluent, in order to maintain the T exactly as it is. People aren't going to just grow legs and be able to get from place to place, or get a bicycle and lose some weight. Lawrence is such a gigantic city, a fleet of mainly empty buses (the driver counts too) is the only option. You must vote for the T even though it is inefficient and poorly managed, because the only alternative is to makes changes and demand the city stop being so wasteful and spend taxpayer money as if it were their own.

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jafs 5 years, 6 months ago

And, by the way, the amounts of money involved with this organization are miniscule in comparison with the recent bailout bill.Are all of you who are so opposed to taxes outraged by this bill as well?If not, why not?

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jafs 5 years, 6 months ago

My wife works for the same organization.The part of the T service that is called the para-transit system is bundled in with the whole thing - if the T service is ended, the para-transit one will be as well.Para-transit service is somewhat more efficient than the large buses and uses a call-for-service system.I've suggested to Mr. Corliss that the two be separated so that we could vote yes for para-transit and no for the larger service, but I doubt this will happen.The organization exists through a combination of federal, state, and private funding. It provides what I would hope most agree is a valuable service for those in our community that need it. Recently the state/federal government have seen fit to cut funding and make regulations/paperwork more burdensome. This increases stress on employees and takes time away from serving their clients.If notaj is sincerely interested in helping, I'm sure we can get you a contact number - the organization does not currently have enough and the right type of vehicles to take over the transportation needs. Perhaps you'd like to start a fund-raising drive to help buy some vehicles.All public transportation systems operate with a great deal of federal/state assistance. If this tax fails, we will not have to pay increased sales tax, but our federal/state taxes will not be any lower. The money will simply go to other communities.Just fyi.

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christy kennedy 5 years, 6 months ago

Good letter from a sincere and informed person. Karen, Please ignore the nastier comments--these people have nothing better to do. Others against the T can make a good case with logic and dollars and cents, but what's missing is the understanding that until a better solution is actually in place, losing the T truly would be devastating for a portion of our citizens.

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grimpeur 5 years, 6 months ago

Don't forget the fleet of big and little diesel and gas-powered cars wandering around with just one person in them. The number of empty seats in personal autos far, far outnumber those in the T. That needs to change. Quick. And it can't happen until alternatives--convenient, efficient alternatives--are in place.Support the T. End lazy driver subsidies.

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notajayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

1) Is this "well-known nonprofit" by any chance also supported by taxpayer dollars?2) While I agree that the "cost to the community to support these individuals in other ways" may be more than the sales tax, Section 8 housing, SSI/SSDI, cash assistance, food stamps, all those things are also paid into by a much wider pool of people (as in at the federal level) as opposed to a tax only paid by shoppers in Lawrence. If a few dozen people could not work and had to be supported in other ways, I somehow doubt it would cause a noticeable blip in my federal taxes.3) Despite those things, I agree that it's a good thing to give these people some autonomy and hold jobs, get to their appointments, etc. The problem is, it would likely be much cheaper to the community to buy your organization a van or small bus and let you drive them around than to have a fleet of big blue empty diesel-sucking monsters wandering aimlessly around.

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Larry_The_Moocher 5 years, 6 months ago

Karen... you are full of crap... Only because of public transportation... bs... These folks have been getting around for years with out taxpayers help.If you feel so strongly about this... why dont you get your checkbook out and stay out of mine?

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KsTwister 5 years, 6 months ago

And the "NO" vote will come in anyway because for the money already given (and spent) was a burden to taxpayers for the size and amount of that big city fleet. Don't give us the sob story on the need for the less fortunate, many of those people were put in that situation by the Beverly Hill tax policies of Lawrence. Voting no means we have and still are watching out by stopping the bleeding of the rest of those who support more necessary services in this community.

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kansas778 5 years, 6 months ago

It's a well known fact that before the T, all handicapped and elderly people starved to death because they had no transportation. Think about that when you vote next month.

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