Douglas County commissioners want the public to have a chance to speak out on the county's tornado siren activation policy.
Emergency Management director Teri Smith has requested time to discuss the policy with commissioners during their Monday morning meeting. Commissioners, however, said they also favor having a public discussion on a Wednesday night before any changes are made to the policy.
The policy has been criticized by some who think the sirens should have been sounded during a storm early Friday morning. The National Weather Service issued a tornado warning for Douglas County, but the sirens were not activated because of a policy that requires a local determination of a tornado threat.
Smith has said that the policy would be reviewed by the Local Emergency Planning Committee.
"At least give the public a chance to be heard and then make their recommendation," Commissioner Charles Jones said, referring to the committee.
Commissioners Bob Johnson and Jere McElhaney agreed.
"What they should do is give us a heads-up on where they are as opposed to coming here and saying 'this is what we recommend,'" Johnson said.
During Wednesday night's meeting, Johnson and McElhaney approved the issuance of revenue bonds allowing Pima County, Ariz., to finance a company's acquisition and improvements to Douglas County Christian radio station, KJTY. Federal law requires a vote by the local county government, even though the county isn't involved in the financing.
Jones voted against Pima County, citing separation of church and state issues and liability concerns.
Comments
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gr (anonymous) says…
"revenue bonds allowing Pima County, Ariz., to finance a company's acquisition and improvements to Douglas County Christian radio station, KJTY."Questions: What is a county acquiring a Christian radio station for?Or, is it just financing or making a loan to another company? If so, do counties make loans to private companies? If so, why does Jones think this is a separation of church and state issue (ignoring the concept that Douglas county's participation is a formality only)?
JerryStubbs (anonymous) says…
I think the proof's in the pudding. There were no tornados in Lawrence. Nobody was hurt. You can't hear the sirens way out in the country, so what's the point of sounding them? I don't think these weather professional's were asleep or anything. On the other hand if somebody spotted a tornado in town I'm sure they would take the call and take appropriate action.
Jeteras (anonymous) says…
I would think this would have been decided a loooooong time ago, you know like when the sirens were put up. I dont know but if the NWS puts your county in a tornado warning I would think that you should sound the sirens. Jefferson and Douglas were under a nws warning! last storm and every town in Jefferson county sounded their sirens. Why did Douglas County not? If tornado like conditions are prevailing my @$$ wants to be woke up if its 2am before me and my bed ends up on a light pole somewhere.
mom_of_three (anonymous) says…
And by the time "they spotted a tornado in town" and sounded the sirens, it might have been too late for folks to take appropriate shelter. But if the warning sounded when the warning was issued by the NWS, people could take shelter ahead of time and avoid injury, hopefully. I don't know what they should have done last week, I just hope for some consistency.
jafs (anonymous) says…
There was in fact a tornado that touched down in Lawrence.
RibMan (anonymous) says…
Sirens are to warn people of a high probability for severe and immediate damage. They are there to insure safety. Let's use them.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
Lets make sure that everyone is at that meeting! Be there or be square!
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
oh yeah, and lets not forget this, if the good citizens of lawrence want the sirens sounded when NWS issues a warning then I say give them what they want!But what happnes is NWS doesnt pick up the rotation but spotters do??!! This HAS indeed happened right here in DG county....so then the sirens dont sound?? It has to either be the counties call or NWS call...cant have both...
ylimeh (anonymous) says…
What about all the students that live on top floors of apartment buildings? We need all the time we can get to go someplace safer. If the NWS says there's a tornado, it's close enough for me. Better safe and prepared than dead.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
Anyone else have a question or comment??People are wanting to "change the policy" right??ok Idiot....the policy states that if the NWS issues a warning then sound the sirens....the county policy makes it the counties call...all the bitching on here has been about taking the athority away from EOC and allowing NWS to make that call..........or have you NOT been paying attention?? SO its either NWS or the county....unless of course, your just bitching to bitch and dont really care one way or another????????
Oracle_of_Rhode (anonymous) says…
Change the damn policy. Sound the sirens automatically if the NWS issues a warning.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
Ok great!!!! Lets change the policy! I will see you at the meeting!
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
Then I will see you there lsense..........
iloveyoutoo (anonymous) says…
Yeah you should read ksdivakat's comments on the initial article before it was revealed that there was in fact a tornado that touched down. She was singing a completely different tune after that information was released.....and if you ask her to back up any of the "facts" she spews at you....she'll just ignore you and tell you that you're just bitching to bitch. Class act.
iloveyoutoo (anonymous) says…
And yes, miss diva, you WILL see me there.
dirkleisure (anonymous) says…
ksdivacat, we should go together. And then after we can head down to Clinton Lake to catch fish with our bare hands, use our vapors to light a fire, and drink stuff we cooked up ourself out back. We won't need a tent or sleeping bag, because we're too tough for sleep.We'll show these sissies a thing or two about the weather. People like you and I make our own weather. I say we advocate for that to be included in the policy.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
iloveyoutoo.......there was no tornado in the city of lawrence, period. never, not once, did one ever enter the city...now you check your facts! The report that is out now is a prelem report meaning: we dont have all the facts yet.I dont care where you go and what you do....you do it all missy! But im not going to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else who isnt weather educated AND works or spots for the county....its not worth it, you dont understand. And just to make my position perfectly clear....I am NOT affiliated with EOC or DG co Skywarn in anyway, as I stated the other day, I am a salaried chaser for the storm prediction center....and I must say, we love you guys here!! you give us a reason to laugh everyday!!!! Thank you! But I will be at that meeting cause I just want to see how people react when those commishs make their decision!
dirkleisure (anonymous) says…
The storm prediction center? That's a heck of a commute.Luckily, people like you and I don't need any stinking cars, we just grab some sand and water, mix it up in our bellies to mix our own concrete, then spit it out in front of us to pave our own roads. Then we call upon the wind to blow us down the road on our in-line skates, which are totally rad.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
dirk..LOL..I like your attitude, and I am currently working with some folks there who have emailed me and asked me about policy change and what all that entails, if the people want the policy changed then thats what they should get, however, you cant just walk into that meeting like a half-wit and spew off that you want it changed, There will be just as many people there who do not want it changed and so you have to be prepared for the battle. Hopefully that is what I am helping these folks do. My position takes me all over the midwest, Ive seen more things than the average person will never even know happened!My feeling is that some of these people, just want something to fuss about. and are not really concerned about a policy change. This does make me fussy...if you want a change do something about it, if your not part of the solution them you have to be part of the problem.....I would venture to say that these folks have not lived in lawrence long, or even Kansas as for that matter, its my understanding that the current policy has been in place for several years.....why now?? This isnt the first year of bad weather?? This is Kansas for goodness sakes!But I would take you up on the fishing offer for sure! I love to fish and camp....I say lets do it when there is bad weather though!!!
cmdln (anonymous) says…
Why cant the siren be sounded if the NWS determines a warning OR a qualified local spotter?
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
cmdln.....its my understanding that this is the current policy, either when NWS issues it OR a trained spotter sees it.....keep in mind NWS is a state agency...EOC is county agency, so you have 2 brances of the govnmt who are eiach going ot pass the buck so to speak...NWS does not and will not be responsible for activation of sirens....so you have to work within your means....and you have to know how to rebutt what is going ot be said in this meeting.
cmdln (anonymous) says…
http://www.douglas-county.com/depts/e... outdoor warning sirens for any or all of the cities in Douglas County are activated when a local determination is made that a tornado threat to the area exists. This determination is made by Douglas County Emergency Management staff and will be based on the evaluation of all available information. This may include, but is not limited to, National Weather Service watch and/or warning text, weather radar and reports from trained weather spotters or law enforcement officers.Sure looks like ORs to me. So I think the outcry is because they did not exercise the policy since its OR not exclusively a local spotter, or exclusively the NWS.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
cmdln......its my understanding that the people here on the blog, dont want EOC to make that determination any longer, they want the sirens to be activated when NWS issues a tornado warning, period.
cmdln (anonymous) says…
Its my understanding that people just want the sirens sounded when there is a valid reason to sound them like there was that night. And the EOC cops out and says they did not sound them because of the policy and they did not have a local spotter.
twosides (anonymous) says…
Douglas County Christian Radio Station ???? When did Topeka move to Douglas County? kjty-fm1005 sw 10th AveTopeka, KSPhone: (785) 357-8888Fax: (785) 357-0100 KJTY Radio is a ministry ofJoy Public BroadcastingJPB Stations:KJTY - Topeka, kswjty - Lancaster, wiwjtg - Fort Valley, gawjtf - Panama City, flkjta - Flagstaff, azkjty radio - joy 881005 sw 10th Street, Topeka, KS 66604-1103(785)357-8888 FAX: (785)357-0100Toll-Free: (888) joy-kjty (569-5589)Dr. Jack Jacob, Operations Manager100,000 Watts Strongwww.joy88.org
cg22165 (anonymous) says…
Couple of comments:"I would think this would have been decided a loooooong time ago, you know like when the sirens were put up. "If I remember history correctly, "storm" sirens were originally put up as a warning system to be used in the case of a nuclear attack. It was some kind of afterthought that someone said, "Hey, we could also use these to warn people about other dangerous things, like tornados."I don't see why this is so difficult or devisive. Someone has responsibility for installing and maintaining the sirens; my guess is it is the city government. They should also be responsible for sounding them. Now, whether they accept triggering input from the NWS or local spotters or both seems like it should be an easy call; any time there is a credible report of eminent threat of a tornado hitting the population, sound the dang sirens. In my opinion, both, any and all, would be the acceptable answer. For instance, if a Sheriff's deputy is confident he/she sees tornado, I don't care if he/she has had training or not, for Pete's sake, sound the sirens. Crud, there are three different remotes sitting on my couch, my TV will turn on when I push the button on any of them. The technology to accomplish this for storm sirens can't be that difficult.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
" would think this would have been decided a loooooong time ago, you know like when the sirens were put up. I dont know but if the NWS puts your county in a tornado warning I would think that you should sound the sirens""Let's make this easy for Teri Smith and her "trained spotters". If The National Weather Service (TNWS) says that Douglas County is under a tornado warning, sound the sirens!"These are just a couple comments from the above blog and the earlier blogs in the week were brimming with these kinds of comments, so I take people at face value when they speak as to what they want and it appears to me that they want the sirens sounded anytime the NWS issues a tornado wanring for anywhere in DG co......am I misinterputing this somehow???
road_Runner (anonymous) says…
"...its my understanding that the people here on the blog, dont want EOC to make that determination any longer, they want the sirens to be activated when NWS issues a tornado warning, period."People here are certainly interpreting this from various angles and POV's, however it appears one thing seems universal across the board and that is a genuine concern for safety.I do understand where you are coming from in terms of having the spotters out there. Skyewarn is irreplaceable to the warning system. They are the ones who are able to confirm tornadoes and low-level rotation, whereas the radar is not always able to do so. I do have complete confidence in the spotters and trust their judgment.There are a few things though that happened last Thur/Fri night, which need to be further evaluated. For one, a tornado did in fact touch down in Douglas County, not too far from Lawrence and the spotters were unable to see it that night. By looking at the SRM-radar, it was clear there was some strong rotation within the storm not too far from Lawrence. You can clearly see the couplet and it's proximity to Lawrence: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/Image/top/May... Granted, a storm structure and rotation can vary greatly from minute to minute however, given the speed the whole line segment was moving, 45-50mph, the area of rotation would have been over Lawrence, especially far north Lawrence, in no time. Plus, it's really hard to keep up with storms from the ground when they moving that fast. This storm also appeared to have some HP (High Precipitation) characteristics. HP storms are notorious for making it challenging to see rotation and even tornadoes from ground level, let alone in the dark. Also, there was a history of storms producing tornadoes that evening indicating there was still some shear (although not as strong from earlier in the evening) present. Another thing. These were the type of storms that would have had short lived tornado touchdowns, not long trackers, which would also make it more challenging to detect from the ground.I understand not to overuse the sirens, however in my 15 years in Lawrence, they are rarely sounded:.maybe once every few years. That same parameter applies the actual number of tornado warnings which included the city of Lawrence. I know there are numerous ways in finding out that there is a warning (media, weather radio, etc), instead of the sirens, however when you actually hear the sirens, the urgency of taking cover really kicks in for many and that's not going to change. With the current system, I feel better communication between the NWS and the EOC would certainly help resolve a lot of these issues, especially in a situation like last week.(P.S. Wow, I didn't know that SPC pays chasers now. Man, I've really been out of the loop, lol.)
a_flock_of_jayhawks (anonymous) says…
JerryStubbs (Anonymous) says:"I think the proof's in the pudding. There were no tornados in Lawrence"NWS officially stated that there was an F2 and an F0, possibly the same tornado that emerged twice, that touched down 5 miles WSW of Clinton Lake. Technically not in Lawrence, but it sure was on a track that took the cell that produced it over NW Lawrence.
Confrontation (anonymous) says…
"You can't hear the sirens way out in the country, so what's the point of sounding them?" Did someone seriously say this?! Why warn some people if we can't warn them all? Sad, sad little man.
ksdivakat (anonymous) says…
Wow! Roadrunner and CG.....first intelligent comments regarding this issue that Ive seen on any of these blogs so far!! Kudos to you for not reacting emotionally but moreover rationally and with a degree of class!!If the people want this policy changed then they are going ot have to go into that meeting with some intelligence and tact behind them.If the 2 of you go to this meeting, I believe the commish will at least take it under advisory...
iloveyoutoo (anonymous) says…
Wow! Ksdivakat, I am amazed that you didn't give some sort of rebuttal regarding Roadrunner and CG's comments!!!! Funny thing is....they both gave the same argument that we all have been giving....I guess you just applaud them because they didn't point out how ignorant YOUR comments have been.
domino (anonymous) says…
KSZ-21-3503 - you remind me of the old saying, "Arguing with a farmer is pretty much like wrestling a pig in the mud ----- sooner or later you figure out that the pig is enjoying it!" LOL
OnlyTheOne (anonymous) says…
It's worked for years. Leave it alone.And as an aside for KSA_21_3503. You really should reconsider this comment, "the NWS is made up of actual meteorologists as opposed to people like Bob Newton (idiots)."Those "meteorologists" in many instances have a heck of a lot less experience with inclement weather in this part of the country than Mr. Newton and I assure you he is far from an "idiot."Now, however, in considering your position in the hierarchy of intelligent things I'm wondering where to locate you.......
cmdln (anonymous) says…
KSA_21_3503,Are you kidding me? This isn't about the NWS automatically triggering the damn sirens! Its about the Emergency Management Duty Officer or whoever is supposed to push the big red button doing their job. Taking information that is available from trained spotters or NWS and acting on it is what this is about. I know it must be hard for some guy to hear a NWS warning and for that signal to make it all the way to his pea brain, and then be expected to generate another signal to extend the finger and depress the button. Common, danger reported by a trained spotter or the NWS warrants sounding of the sirens. Its the responsibility of the EMDO to sound the alarm. Its their responsibility to listen to the reports that warrant the siren. The guy on the button does not have to have the tornado rip his door off before he sounds the alarm. This whole thing is ridiculous. I have now wasted multiple of minutes of my life that I will never get back because people are too dense to understand that if there is danger, and a qualified responsible person reports said danger, anyone who is in or near said danger should be warned if infrastructure currently in place and is properly functioning and could possibly save them from harm.
cmdln (anonymous) says…
You just said that I needed to re-read the policy. That is the same thing I said before, only slightly harsher.
monkeyspunk (anonymous) says…
The fact that the county commission thinks this needs to be discussed in length just cracks me up. Do they need to consult the public on every decision? Isn't the point of a representative democracy to have these people be able to make decisions on their own and be able to amend previous decisions, especially ones they came up with on their own in the first place!Seriously? What do we pay them for?OK, I will help you guys:IF NWS issues a Tornado warning for a specific area of Douglas County or the entire county.ORIf a trained spotter or Law Enforcement official spots what they believe is tornadic (sp) activity within Douglas County/Lawrence.THENSound the fricking sirens.If the NWS warning is very specific (which they usually are), then sound sirens for that specific area. They have the capability to do that per the EM Website. It's not very hard folks, when it comes down to it you are changing an "and" to an "or" in your conditions. Got that? Can we take that raise we...I mean...YOU gave yourselves back now?
Lynn731 (anonymous) says…
You CAN hear the siren out in the county. We live 1/2 mile from Lecompton, and we can hear the siren inside our house. So although I do have a working weather radio, the siren should be sounded whenever Douglas county is put under a tornado warning. We hear it, our dog hears it, and she wakes us up if the weather radio does not. They need to fire the entire emergency management department and hire some people with some common sense. Thank you, Lynn
Lynn731 (anonymous) says…
P.S. The county commission are a bunch of idiots too! We remember the 50% raise at Christmas, and the bridge closing, and so much more. Start looking for a job where you really have to work boys. Thank you, Lynn
JerryStubbs (anonymous) says…
I imagine that those guys staying up late all night, watching the radars, getting calls from spotters, etc, would LOVE to hit that button to set off the siren-- finally, their big chance. But everytime they did that and no tornado hit town their credibility would be diminished. People wouldn't take it seriously. We'd all be complaining about false alarms. Going down to the basement in the middle of the night for nothing--what a pain.
JerryStubbs (anonymous) says…
there was no tornado in lawrence
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Lawrence escaped the touchdown but it was here, enough of us heard and saw (as much as you can in pitch darkness). We were not running at 1:30 in the morning for nothing and 'yelling like a bunch of girls' to boot. Apologies to the ladies.
Meatwad (anonymous) says…
Being able to get proper info via radio is important. I found it difficult to tune in stations last week during the storm.
road_Runner (anonymous) says…
"Every time the sirens have sounded in my neighborhood, most residents (primarily KU students) rush outside to see what the commotion is all about, and they remain outside until the alert quits sounding.I know, because I'm usually out there too"Hahaha....touche. :)I'm just as guilty as well although I think I do have a tendency to get on my neighbors and friends nerves as I won't shut-up about the structure of the storm we're all staring at...they could care less. All they want to know is if the storm is going to do something, heh.When storms hit in the middle of the night, I believe there is more of an urgency to take cover upon hearing the sirens as you're not able to see what's heading in your direction and that can be very unsettling.
Guardian (anonymous) says…
Which is cheaper, activating sirens or facing several multi-million dollar civil suiits for negligence and deriliction of duty?