Archive for Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Anticipating a rail travel resurgence, organization wants to fast-track repairs
Carey Maynard-Moody, left, and Dennis Domer peek into the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway depot near Seventh and New York streets. The pair are part of a group aiming to renovate the half-century-old building, which still is in limited service as an Amtrak station.
May 7, 2008
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Efforts underway to rehabilitate rail depot in East Lawrence
The 'Burlington Northern Santa Fe Depot' is beginning to show its age. It's been there for 52 years. Watch
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Santa Fe Depot
Warren Corman, one of two architects who designed the Burlington Northern Sante Fe Depot at Seventh and New York streets, talks about the depot's past and present.
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The train depot in east Lawrence still welcomes and sees off passengers, still accommodates railroad operations and still grabs attention with its mid-century modern architecture.
Now a fledgling group of residents wants to make sure that the depot owned by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, 413 E. Seventh St., not only survives for another 50 years but also stays on track to handle a hoped-for resurgence in rail travel.
“Our goal is to maintain it as an active station,” said Dennis Domer, co-chairman of Depot Redux, an organization formed to fight for the depot’s renovation, restoration and enhancement as a passenger hub. “Not only do we like the transportation and the depot and the architecture, but we think this is the wave of the future. It’s like ‘Back to the Future.’
“Nobody has any money right now, and we’re just starting out, but if there’s going to be a rail system in the future, it’ll be just like in the 19th century: Everybody wants to be on that line. And Lawrence is already on it.”
The depot in Lawrence is one of 31 stops between Chicago and Los Angeles on the Southwest Chief, an Amtrak line with twice daily scheduled stops in Lawrence: 12:32 a.m. for passengers going west, and 5:49 a.m. for passengers headed east.
But Depot Redux hopes for more. They’re working with the Northern Flyer Alliance to help push for a new train that would connect with the Heartland Flyer, which already runs from Dallas/Fort Worth to Oklahoma City. The Northern Flyer would extend north to Newton, then on to the north and east through Topeka, Lawrence and Kansas City, Mo.
The Kansas Department of Transportation is studying the feasibility of such service.
Working for the future
Lawrence’s depot, which served 3,732 Amtrak passengers last year, could become an even bigger player in the years ahead as fuel prices escalate, environmental concerns mount and people become increasingly aware of the potential for rail as a convenient, cost-effective mode of transportation, said Carey Maynard-Moody, Depot Redux co-chairwoman.
But protecting and preserving an existing depot is a years-long process, Maynard-Moody said, and one that needs to start soon if Lawrence wants to be a player in extended rail service.
“If the Northern Flyer is going to come through — in, say, 2010 or 2011 — our depot needs to be ready,” she said.
The depot itself, opened in 1956, is showing its age, said Domer, who knows a thing or two about such things. The historic preservationist and architecture educator helped with a community effort to preserve and restore the old Union Pacific Depot, now the Lawrence Visitor Center in North Lawrence.
The BNSF depot is worthy of placement on the National Register of Historic Places, he said, given its status as one of a small number of U.S. depots built in the modern style — one dominated by bold, overlapping rectangles and metal architectural details, virtually all of which remain in place today.
About the depot’s only nod to the present day is its illumination. While fixtures hanging from the ceiling are original, the compact-fluorescent bulbs inside are new.
“You walk in there today, and it’s like walking into the 1950s,” Domer said.
Repairs sought
The building’s flat roof is leaking, terrazzo floors are cracking and metal supports outside are rusting.
Domer figures it might take $200,000 or so to repair the roof and make other necessary upgrades. A full-scale renovation, rehabilitation and period-sensitive upgrades could push the project cost past $1 million.
Rich Wessler, director of passenger train operations for Burlington Northern Santa Fe, said that the railway would be an unlikely candidate to tackle such work alone.
“The depot, as it is now, is fine for our purposes,” Wessler said. “We don’t need much of a facility.”
But BNSF would entertain the possibility of selling the depot to the city of Lawrence, provided that its own interests — space for communications equipment and room for switching crews — could be met, either on site or somewhere else nearby, Wessler said. And government money could come into play.
“We’re certainly willing to consider legitimate offers,” said Wessler, who emphasized that the railroad was not actively looking to sell. “The federal government is not interested in rehabbing a Burlington Northern Santa Fe facility, but they’re very interested in rehabbing a city-owned facility.”
Maynard-Moody and Domer say they have broached the subject with city officials, and are confident some arrangement with somebody — the city, a trust or a nearby property owner — could be worked out.
“We want to have the depot up and running and welcoming for passenger rail travelers,” Maynard-Moody said. “How do we get there? We don’t know. But we’re very creative.”
7 May 2008 at 9:06 a.m.
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ralphralph (Anonymous) says…
“The depot in Lawrence is one of 31 stops between Chicago and Los Angeles …”
There's your trouble. 31 stops? What is it, a 5-day trip?
Rail is over, at least as a means of long-distance travel.
It's also over for commuting, in this part of the country, because the popluation density just isn't there (thank goodness).
5-stars for nostalgia, 1-star for reality.
7 May 2008 at 9:15 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“There's your trouble. 31 stops? What is it, a 5-day trip?”
The trip from Lawrence to Chicago is about 10 hours, so your estimate is likely pretty far off.
“Rail is over, at least as a means of long-distance travel.”
With oil heading towards $200 a barrel, you couldn't be more wrong.
7 May 2008 at 10:34 a.m.
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CAclarks (Anonymous) says…
We (two adults, three kids) took the train from Lawrence to LA a few years ago. It was a great trip, good dining service, great views from the observation car. It takes about 30 hours. It's not cheap though, and the 12:30AM departure time is a drag.
7 May 2008 at 12:20 p.m.
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Jean1183 (Anonymous) says…
I would love to do a train trip and have checked into the costs as recently as a month ago………exhorbitant! It's cheaper to fly.
7 May 2008 at 12:23 p.m.
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bennyoates (Anonymous) says…
Don't even think about using MY tax dollars for any socialist crap like this!! Hillary and Obama will use the rails to transport decent, God-fearing, indelibly heterosexual Americans to multicultural indoctrination concentration camps!!
7 May 2008 at 12:31 p.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
As a museum or as a civic centre of some kind, the place might be viable.
Passenger rail travel in the USA is *NOT* going to happen in any serious manner in the USA; maybe between cities if there is enough traffic to justify it but the infrastructure required does not exist and cannot be built in a reasonable period of time.
Yes, such rail travel works in Europe because and only because passenger rail travel never went away in Europe and most of the countries with effective systems are the size of postage stamps to begin with.
Private automobile travel was limited by punitive taxes for years, although this has changed to some extent.
We are *NOT* going to give up the automobile and in point of fact, cannot.
We are much better off concentrating our efforts on zero-pollution cars and trucks than trying to revive the dead.
7 May 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
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1029 (Anonymous) says…
ralphralph could not be more wrong. i'd love to hear his/her views on what the world will look like in twenty, thirty, forty years. (also, I believe it is estimated that the number of cars on the road today will double by sometime in the 2050s) Small thinkers and those with the inability to visualize are sadly a plentiful crowd.
7 May 2008 at 12:40 p.m.
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gl0ck0wnr (Anonymous) says…
Awesome. More taxes and another unwanted service.
7 May 2008 at 12:48 p.m.
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TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…
I can't bellieve I am agreeeing with Bozo. But he is right. Rail travel could be viable again. But it will take a large investment. If You could get rail going again is some meaningful way, it will hugely reduce the use of fuel in this country. That means a corresponding reduction in CO2. But if your not serious about reducing this, then well never mind. I also think it should be done like Marion says for civic opportunites, and just to save some mid-century Americana. You should come over to Topeka and see what they have done with the Great Overland Station.
7 May 2008 at 1:02 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
gl0ck0wnr (Anonymous) says…
Awesome. More taxes and another unwanted service.
Hmmm, exactly what I think about air travel and the bailing out of the airline industry.
7 May 2008 at 1:24 p.m.
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salad (Anonymous) says…
I look forward to gas going to $10 so we can all SLOW the eff down a little. We'll have to walk to work or ride a bike, take public transportation, and only use your car for special occaisions. And for long trips: take the train, which will be cheaper than flying….it will just take a few years to get there.
7 May 2008 at 1:29 p.m.
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DonQuipunch (Anonymous) says…
Yes, salad. I, for one, can't wait to walk 40 miles one-way to work.
Douchebag. Kill the commuters and there won't be a lot left to pay for the city infrastructure. Lawrence needs commuters a lot more than we need it.
7 May 2008 at 1:32 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
A proud commuter. Wow, a lot of logic in that. Is there fear of living where you work? Am I missing something, is commuting not just something you do but also a lifestyle?
7 May 2008 at 1:38 p.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
My first reaction to the headline and a few sentences was, “Do Maynard-Moody and Domer own stock in BNSF, is that why they think they have any say in this?” Then, further reading revealed that their solution requires the taxpayers to buy a dilapidated building that BNSF does not see fit to repair, and then have the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 to fix it up. Why am I not surprised?
7 May 2008 at 1:52 p.m.
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igby (Anonymous) says…
3700 passengers is more than the T. Lol. Maynard-Moody, has another dead horse to beat now. Whats next? Hope it's not the 2009, CC election.
7 May 2008 at 2:02 p.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
I think I'll call up the railway and offer them $5 USD for the station and use it for a non-profit museum.
7 May 2008 at 2:03 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
JackRipper - There's not a fear in living where you work. Some of us don't have much of a choice. It's not a lifestyle - it's a necessity for many. If you think anyone wants to drive to KC everyday, then you're pretty dumb. Many of us have a spouse that has a job in Lawrence, but since the job market here sucks, the other spouse has to work in KC. I used to work in Eudora, but then the company closed (owner decided he'd sell out to the competition and it got shut down). So, to get an equivalent job I had to start commuting.
Should my spouse have to leave the job he's had for 18 years with one of the few good companies in Lawrence and give up the benefits? We'd have a hard time selling our house since the market sucks. And given the fact there aren't a lot of good paying jobs anywhere because of the economy, yeah I should have my husband quit his good job to try to get a crappier one in KC. Now, that's smart.
What would be smart are commuter rail lines that ran from Topeka to KC (through) Lawrence. Then have bus service to the main areas of town from the rail stations. St. Louis and the east coast major cities are perfect examples. Too many idiots in this area keep us from progressing.
7 May 2008 at 2:08 p.m.
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DonQuipunch (Anonymous) says…
>>>Is there fear of living where you work?<<<
Like many others, I made a decision to raise my kids in a town like Lawrence rather than a cesspool like Wyandotte County. But guess what? My money? It comes from WY, because that's where the jobs are! But there are plenty of other places one can go to live in a decent environment. (And let me preempt any who invite me to leave now by acknowledging that is what I will probably do if I cannot secure a telecommuting solution.)
My point is simply that you should be careful what you wish for. Those in the local job market need someone to cook burgers for.
7 May 2008 at 2:08 p.m.
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rumor_man (Anonymous) says…
I heard that Dennis pushed Carey onto the first westbound train right after they took the pictures and interviewed her.
7 May 2008 at 2:22 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
Problem is we should build “communities” not places to sleep, roads to waste a couple of hours away on commuting, and work in a city you wouldn't live in. If people in Lawrence would start supporting and building business that provide for ourselves then Lawrence or any other community would be strong but instead we aren't building complete communities. We are all running around like chickens without their heads on because we won't stop and evaluate what our material goals do to our lives. We want more junk made far away, we built houses far larger then made sense, drove vehicles to commute in that were insane, and told everybody who said this back then to stick it. Now you all are dealing with the results and we are suppose to understand your situation? I mean I feel sorry for anybody who is stuck in a predicament but it didn't take a fortune teller to see what was coming.
The train/bus system would be a good idea but first you will have to convince the people who even while they are complaining about the current situation still refuse to believe change might be needed.
7 May 2008 at 2:24 p.m.
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salad (Anonymous) says…
DonQuipunch (Anonymous) says…
Yes, salad. I, for one, can't wait to walk 40 miles one-way to work.
Douchebag. Kill the commuters and there won't be a lot left to pay for the city infrastructure. Lawrence needs commuters a lot more than we need it.
Wow, DonQuidik, aren't you a self-important whiny little bee-otch! I'm sure that Lawrence will be just fine without your little drop in the bucket. I STILL can't wait for gas to go to $10/gal. so you'll have to change your bassakwards lifestyle. It's comming, oh yes….it's comming.
7 May 2008 at 2:43 p.m.
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DonQuipunch (Anonymous) says…
“Bee-otch” Awesome!
You SO win, salad.
7 May 2008 at 2:57 p.m.
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gl0ck0wnr (Anonymous) says…
“JackRipper (Anonymous) says… Hmmm, exactly what I think about air travel and the bailing out of the airline industry.”
Except, of course, people actually *use* air travel infrastructure.
Maybe Lawrence could spend a couple $25 million creating the Heckler Library, Rail and T Exchange so both passengers interested in using the T and rail could check out a book while they wait.
7 May 2008 at 3 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“Except, of course, people actually *use* air travel infrastructure.”
If rail were subsidized to the extent the air and auto travel are, ridership would increase dramatically.
7 May 2008 at 3:01 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
Except, of course, people actually *use* air travel infrastructure.
I don't so as well as many others so it is in the eye of the beholder.
7 May 2008 at 3:09 p.m.
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Bowhunter99 (Anonymous) says…
are these people anticipating 1.7MM/year being freed up because of the termination of the mT?
7 May 2008 at 3:11 p.m.
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gccs14r (Anonymous) says…
We could have used the $3 trillion we spent on Iraq to build a fabulous passenger rail system. You naysayers are really going to wish we had built passenger rail when your only inter-city transportation option is a stagecoach.
7 May 2008 at 3:21 p.m.
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sdinges (Anonymous) says…
As a university student in Ontario, I used to take the train all over. I had no car and it was cheap. It wasn't really that bad. There were express (no stop) train on all well-traveled routes, but if the scheduling didn't work out for me I often ended up on a train with several stops. The stops were annoying, but all in all, the trips were a positive experience.
7 May 2008 at 3:33 p.m.
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martyks (Anonymous) says…
Something to think about: At the turn of the last century, we had trains running to and from every little town throughout the country… another train would come by every 10 minutes or so. You could hop on almost any time and go almost anywhere for almost nothing. Henry Ford and Big Oil got together to buy up every commuter train they could and dismantle them. The answer will be light rail, but we are probably 110 years away from that… in the past. Too bad these unamerican tycoons were allowed to ruin real transportation, and now, history presents these people as heroes. I know there's a need for it, but building it would be harder than putting a man on the moon. Obama might want to write a speech: Before this decade is out… Or, we choose to build a modern transportation system, not because it is easy, but because it is hard. Imagine spending the money we are throwing away in Iraq on real transportation! Ah, I'm dreaming. Not gonna happen… CO2 through the roof (or sky) and people telling us rail transportation is dead right up to the moment most of us are.
7 May 2008 at 3:42 p.m.
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salad (Anonymous) says…
DonQuipunch (Anonymous) says…
““Bee-otch” Awesome!
You SO win, salad.”
See?…we CAN agree on something.
7 May 2008 at 3:43 p.m.
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none2 (Anonymous) says…
JackRipper & salad,
If you want a fortress Lawrence, just say so. Lets build walls around Lawrence, and put in a mote…
You would both have a lot of fun controlling other people. Maybe you could insist that everybody is under house arrest. That way not only do we not need roads, we wouldn't need sidewalks. Just have the government come down dirt trails to drop off a person's food, water, clothing and any other rations that they may need. Perhaps too if you want permanent residents only, you should petition the state to close down Haskill and KU. After all, the students are only here for a few months of the year and only for a few years. Plus they go home some weekends adding to additional days where they are not contributing to the community.
We should also keep out people that come to Lawrence for games, and other big events. It is so rude of them to leave their dwellings in the KC area or Topeka and shop and spend in Lawrence. They should just stay home & watch the game on TV or radio…
Thankfully, most people don't have that mindset, and look past those people who do. People live in Lawrence because they liked the town. Maybe it is KU, maybe it is downtown, maybe it is the river, maybe it is the lake, maybe it is fond memories of their college years, maybe it is their spouse's job location… It is also silly to assume commuters are here because things are cheapest here. If cheap is all someone wanted, then they would have moved to Jeff county or some other non-zoned county.
Likewise, commuters chose to work elsewhere because they aren't willing to settle for indecent wages or sucking of the tits of government assistance. Quite frankly, they have higher self-esteem than that.
If you really cared for the future of this area, you would be more interested in promoting telecommuting and expanding the job base for descent paying jobs.
Many people who commute have non-manual jobs that could be handled remotely. Unfortunately, many supervisors are not skilled in judging someones effectiveness as an employee by work product, but rather by if they see, touch, and smell you for five days a week.
Such a promotion is much more positive than simply trying to split the community by who is worthy to be considered a resident vs who is not.
7 May 2008 at 3:47 p.m.
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Kookamooka (Anonymous) says…
We used to ride home to St. Louis when we were in college. Now we visit grandma. I loved it as a new mom because I could focus on the kids and breastfeed and relax. It takes longer but the view is better.
I would advocate Amtrak try to attract the young families and have a whole car set up like a little soft playground so all of the families could congregate in it and the kids could play and be noisy.
Not distracting the crotchety old folks is the biggest challenge to rail that I saw.
7 May 2008 at 3:47 p.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
My first reaction to the headline and a few sentences was, “Do Maynard-Moody and Domer own stock in BNSF, is that why they think they have any say in this?”
Then, further reading revealed that their solution requires the taxpayers to buy a dilapidated building that BNSF does not see fit to repair, and then
have the taxpayers spend $1,000,000 to fix it up. Why am I not surprised?
—godot
you know godot, I think we were wrong to oppose yDOOM-dranyam's election to the city commission. she is obviously very forward-looking and perceptive…she really works hard to find places for the city of lawrence to waste its money!
in the city commission race she predicted that food prices would rise, she didn't explain that she and others *would cause* gas prices to rise.
oh and I love the three or so posters wishing the $10 per gallon gas as a punitive measure. these people seem to think their fellow americans need punishing! they oppose building new refineries, they oppose new drilling. ten years ago, bill clinton vetoed the bill passed by congress to begin drilling in ANWR. if he had not done this, we'd have more domestic production, and that means lower oil prices because supply is higher. and that slanted report that it would only matter by one penny to bring down the price of gas, often cited by chuck schumar d. senator of NY, it is completely fake.
7 May 2008 at 3:55 p.m.
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Haiku_Cuckoo (Anonymous) says…
Air travel is a waste of time and money. Why would I want to spend a whopping 3 hours flying to New York when I can make that same trip by train in a measly 29 hours?
7 May 2008 at 3:57 p.m.
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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…
It's so wonderful living in RedneckLand, where only right wing wackjobs post comments in the local paper. I can always count on The Usual Suspects to call people names, be overwhelmingly negative, and propose nothing to fix our country's problems other than “more of the same please”. Yawn. So dull, so uncreative. Thank God the whiners here never do anything than type…
7 May 2008 at 3:58 p.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
I have ridden the train many times in my life and enjoyed it. so, am not anti-train.
it is very comfortable compared to most forms of long-distance travel.
***
I see we have some hysterians above who believe in anthropogenic global warming.
when CO2 is outlawed, then only outlaws will breathe.
algore's movie was ruled false on ten or eleven points by a uk judge. furthermore, this hysteria is based on poor models that don't even account for global precipitation. some of the same hysterians were warning us in the '70s about a “pollution winter” “global cooling.” it was on the cover of time and of newsweek.
the earth has been warmer than this before. solar output has been up corelating with global temperature increases, not CO levels in the atmosphere, in fact measures during the last century indicated that increases in atmospheric carbon levels *followed* temperature rises, not preceded them.
stop thinking you have to have your fellow americans punished!
7 May 2008 at 4:05 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
none2
there must be a commuter culture and when it is threatened people get angry. Fortress? Is that what community means to you? We have really progressed to a sad state of affairs.
I would love to live in other cities if I had my choice or could get the tax payers to guarantee that I could succeed in those towns. But being a fairly responsible adult I have lived within my means and don't demand a unsustainable lifestyle from the taxpayers. It's funny how much that lifestyle actually cost the tax payers which is continually overlooked by its defenders.
Telecommuting would be fine but why live here until you have that? Why move here if there aren't jobs because we aren't KC? Why not think?
7 May 2008 at 4:23 p.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
Soros and Buffett, Obama's richest supporters and financial gurus, have made big investments in railroads recently, inlcuding BNSF. I love it how they are able to get the sheeple of moveon to carry the flag and support their business interests all in the name of “green.”
7 May 2008 at 4:26 p.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
I wonder to what degree Soros and his hedge fund speculator followers are responsible for the outrageous runup in the price of oil?
7 May 2008 at 6:03 p.m.
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RedwoodCoast (Anonymous) says…
“Too many idiots in this area keep us from progressing.”
Waaaah, waaaaah, sob, sob, I don't want to change!
Boo hoo.
7 May 2008 at 6:24 p.m.
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ralphralph (Anonymous) says…
Sheesh! The '5-day trip' remark was one of them thar hyperbole thangs. People will not take a 31-stop trip to LA by rail in sufficient numbers to be feasible, regardless of fuel costs. Query: don't trains use fuel?
I'm not anti-train, just realistic. When I'm in Chicago, St. Louis or Atlanta, I use the trains all I can. In college I was a master of bus schedules, and could make connections with the best of them. It was great, and affordable. Trains aren't going to work in Kansas, though, or from Chicago to LA. They just aren't. I picked August 19th out of the air, and checked schedules and prices: you can fly non-stop from Chicago to LAX for $ 135 in 4 hours and 15 minutes; OR, you can go by bus for $ 102 in 43 hours and 45 minutes; OR you could go by train in 43 hours for $ 143. Let's see, which do I like best? Pay more and take 10 times longer? Idunthingso.
What's the world going to look like in the future? Around here it's going to look trainless, except for the freighters bringing in the Chinese goodies to meet up with the NAFTA Superhighway over at Gardner.
7 May 2008 at 7:34 p.m.
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cool (Anonymous) says…
i want trains on the hour to Kansas City.
don't build the SLT
build back light rail !
7 May 2008 at 8:06 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“The trip from Lawrence to Chicago is about 10 hours, so your estimate is likely pretty far off.”
Or you could have just looked it up. There's a train leaving Chicago at 1:45 pm tomorrow - it gets to LA at 10:10 am *three* days later. (There is another one that takes 'only' 43 hours - must not make all 31 stops.)
“If rail were subsidized to the extent the air and auto travel are, ridership would increase dramatically.”
Uh, sure. Except there aren't rails to carry any more trains, moron. And here's another clue (since you seem so devoid of them): Your typical business traveler from Chicago isn't going to spend the entire business week on a train for a one hour meeting in LA.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
“I don't so as well as many others so it is in the eye of the beholder.”
A million people used Kansas City's airport in March. How many used the train station? I think there's a few more “beholders” on the plane.
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The bottom line: Trains are incapable of replacing automobiles or airplanes (let alone both). And with airplanes and automobiles, there is absolutely no need for passenger rail.
When gas gets to the price where people stop buying it (and it doesn't look like that's in danger of happening any time soon), they will drive electric cars, or propane cars, or soybean-oil cars, or rubber-band cars. They will not flock to the rails. The American public is not going to give up their personal point-to-point conveyances that go anywhere they want *when* they want. Rail is dead. Get over your nostalgia and your socialism and deal with it.
7 May 2008 at 8:53 p.m.
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Bookie (Anonymous) says…
LOL… I've been in Lawrence 17 years and didn't even know there was a passenger depot!
I'd love to take a trip by rail. In 1966-ish I travelled with my mother and 3 siblings (all of us under 7) from Rochester, Minnesota to Merced, California. Great memories for me, though I know it had to be stressful for my mother!
7 May 2008 at 9:15 p.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
In the fall the east coast train heading west was quite busy and hooked up additional cars in Indiana on our way to KCMO. A train lay over in a city is way more fun than any airport.
7 May 2008 at 9:36 p.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
If there is no reason to be in a hurry the sites along the way are interesting. Train travel is definitely a social experience and comfortable. The club car and food are okay. We’ve traveled from New Mexico to Los Angeles toting our bikes and camp gear. We’ve traveled from Pennsylvania to KCMO. We’ve traveled from Baltimore to KCMO with bikes and camp gear.
Our latest venture from Pennsylvania noted public transportation buses delivering and picking up commuter train patrons. We did commuter train from small town Pennsylvania to the Philadelphia train depot. So public transportation is not unreasonable.
Tons and tons of tax dollars are spent on car travel so it is a long way from being self sustaining. Lots of pork barrel spending on car travel such as the $200,000,000 roadway being discussed aka the trafficway. Roadways breed more tax dollar spending as developers create demands such as schools,houses,strip malls, water and sewer, fire and police plus additional city staff and equipment.
No way do more roads save tax dollars.
7 May 2008 at 10:09 p.m.
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gccs14r (Anonymous) says…
Aircraft are going away. They burn way too much fuel and produce way too much CO2 per seat-mile. A windmill-powered train produces no CO2.
7 May 2008 at 10:28 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
“Lots of pork barrel spending on car travel such as the $200,000,000 roadway being discussed aka the trafficway.”
“Pork barrel,” merrill? How many passengers were on the train you rode (all of whom had more than half their fares paid through tax subsidies), compared to just a single daily passenger load in the cars that will travel the SLT? Get over yourself.
I just love these people that say “Yeah, I rode the train once” as if it's their sole means of travel. Without the roads of which you speak, merril, how do you think all those people who boarded your train in Indiana got to the train station?
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gccs14r (Anonymous) says…
“Aircraft are going away. They burn way too much fuel and produce way too much CO2 per seat-mile. A windmill-powered train produces no CO2.”
A windmill-powered train might have a difficult time carrying passengers to Europe. Or Japan. Or Hawaii. Or Australia. Or…..
7 May 2008 at 10:30 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“Or you could have just looked it up. There's a train leaving Chicago at 1:45 pm tomorrow - it gets to LA at 10:10 am *three* days later. (There is another one that takes 'only' 43 hours - must not make all 31 stops.)”
I may be a “moron”, at least I can do basic math, and read a train schedule. That train that only takes 43 hours, which is less than two days, is the same one that goes through Lawrence (I've taken it several times.) Last I checked, 5 days is 120 hours, which is considerably more than 43 hours.
“Your typical business traveler from Chicago isn't going to spend the entire business week on a train for a one hour meeting in LA.”
Your typical business traveler who goes from Chicago to LA for a one-hour meaning, no matter the means of transport, is a true moron. Fact is, a very high percentage of business travel, especially that taken by private corporate jet, is mostly about ego-stroking, not business necessity.
7 May 2008 at 10:40 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
Well lookie there, it's Mr notajayhawk telling us that the world has always been as it is today. Thanks for helping us stay on the path of status quo so we'll be left with few options in a future. Remind us again how all the tax money going to air and automobile traffic is different then tax money going to a rail. Also keep reminding us that if we are for more rail it also means we don't think there is any place for autos and airplanes.
7 May 2008 at 10:43 p.m.
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swan_diver (Anonymous) says…
It was rather foolish of the LJW — or Dennis Domer or Carry Maynard-Moody to posit the preservation of the Santa Fe Depot as part of an initiative to bring passenger rail service back to Lawrence, Kansas, and the greater United States. That's not going to happen — in a world where selfish, short-sighted morons dominate local newspaper bloggs, and the public purse is controlled by thieves and traitors masquerading as businessmen. The structure is simply a very important architectural and cultural relic of Lawrence's heritage and history — and should be protected and utilized because of that phenomenon — as a restaurant, or shop, or office, or whatever, for the benifit of generations yet born. Stop with all the BS here.
7 May 2008 at 11 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
just_another_nazi_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“I may be a “moron”, at least I can do basic math, and read a train schedule. That train that only takes 43 hours, which is less than two days, is the same one that goes through Lawrence (I've taken it several times.) Last I checked, 5 days is 120 hours, which is considerably more than 43 hours.”
At least I know the difference between 3 and 5. I didn't say five days, nazi_on_the_bus, I said three:
421 Texas Eagle
Chicago, IL - Union Station (CHI)
1:45 pm 08-MAY-08
Los Angeles, CA - Union Station (LAX)
10:10 am 11-MAY-08
70h 25m
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak/Far…
And maybe your eyes are failing as fast as your feeble mind, but you might have noticed that in the parentheses - that's these things ( ) - I mentioned there was another train that 'only' took 43 hours. There's also one that goes through Sacramento that takes about 60, one through San Antonio that takes about 63, and one through Portland OR that takes over 76. Wow, now there's flexible scheduling.
But okay, let's take the one that's 'only' 43 hours. Lest you think it's just business travelers, clownie, while I realize you don't have much to do with your time, those of us who work for a living might not want to spend 4 days of our week-long vacation in transit. Especially those of us with small children who can think of better ways to torture a child than to subject them to 43 hours on a train - both ways.
“Your typical business traveler who goes from Chicago to LA for a one-hour meaning, no matter the means of transport, is a true moron. Fact is, a very high percentage of business travel, especially that taken by private corporate jet, is mostly about ego-stroking, not business necessity.”
Yeah, yeah, yeah, forgot, it's all about good socialist ideals, isn't it, nazi_on_the_bus? Private wealth is bad, private health insurance is bad, private schools are bad, and private transportation is an absolute abomination before the gods of socialism. Way to stay true to your nazi ideals, Herr bozo.
7 May 2008 at 11:03 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
Really, notajayhawk. Please go to timeout. Your blood pressure is obviously sky high, and you're beginning to babble even more incoherently than usual.
7 May 2008 at 11:16 p.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
Yeah, yeah, yeah, forgot, it's all about good socialist ideals, isn't it, nazi_on_the_bus? Private wealth is bad, private health insurance is bad, private schools are bad, and private transportation is an absolute abomination before the gods of socialism. Way to stay true to your nazi ideals, Herr bozo.
Again the myth that it is “private”! It is hilarious to continually be told that air and auto travel is just private free enterprise. It is bull and we all get to pay for the infrastructure that allows the companies to buy the one so called “private” item in the picture. Our transportation system today is socialism!
7 May 2008 at 11:24 p.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
nota,
you know that the elitist left fringe on here has already labeled you and me as “rednecks!” [the correct modern term: agro-americans, please].
and I note with glee that boozo on the wrong bus a cts like he/she/it has some knowledge of what happens at such business meetings! that's really funny. all he/she/it is telling us is about the giant prejudice in his/her/its heart!
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windmill powered engine, I think that had to be sarcasm.
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and, finally comrad Merrill pops up. he wants us all to have enforced power outages to force electricity conservation!
he thinks broken streets are good passive traffic calming devices {and he's on the traffic safety commish?!?}.
but worst of all, merrill applauds those blowing up our troops in iraq, calling them patriots.
so, anything merrill writes, just ignore as stemming from tortured mind. maybe we need to set aside some town, and only maynard-moody boozo merrill ripper et al can live there, tax themselves into oblivion and have a little people's republic, while leaving us in freedom and lower taxes and sensible government. ya' know, us agro-americans!
7 May 2008 at 11:28 p.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
same day, same paper, we are straining to pay for the T, might have sales tax vote whether to keep it going; and, some of these same far left people are in the same paper telling us we need to plunk down a boatload of money to fixup an old train depot?
makes me feel as if I were a goldfish, in a washing machine set to agitate!
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c'mon, do you people ever think before you start flinging moneywaster ideas out there?
7 May 2008 at 11:30 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
Hey, BG and nota— ever heard of telephones? Some of em even have teevee screens.
7 May 2008 at 11:52 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“Really, notajayhawk. Please go to timeout. Your blood pressure is obviously sky high, and you're beginning to babble even more incoherently than usual.”
Aw, bozo, don't run away with your tail tucked in now, I need more laughs. And with you being such an endless source of mirth around here, even if *you* think your serious…
“Hey, BG and nota— ever heard of telephones? Some of em even have teevee screens.”
Uh, yeah. We can all take our vacations by phone instead of actually travelling. What a frikkin' moronic troll.
Hey, nazi_on_the_bus: Would it be okay with you if we built a train line through the wetlands? (Maybe we could call it the Columbus line.)
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
“Again the myth that it is “private”! It is hilarious to continually be told that air and auto travel is just private free enterprise.”
And again, the major difference being that people actually *use* the roads and air routes.
8 May 2008 at 12:04 a.m.