State abortion rate decreases / LJWorld.com

Archive for Saturday, March 29, 2008

10,836 procedures reported, about half on nonresidents

March 29, 2008

The number of abortions in Kansas decreased slightly for 2007 after the state saw an uptick the previous year.

A total of 10,836 abortions were reported. The majority of women who received the surgery were white, single and between the ages of 20 and 29. Close to half of the abortions were performed on women who were from outside of Kansas.

Late Friday afternoon, the Kansas Department of Health and Environment released the preliminary report to legislators and posted it on the department's Web site.

The report includes all in-state abortions; however, the report does not include all of the data on Kansans who have had the procedure out-of-state. Once other states report their data, the numbers may increase.

Mary Kay Culp, executive director for Kansans for Life, said the decline in abortions can be partly attributed to the recent investigation of Dr. George Tiller's Wichita abortion clinic.

In 2007, late-term abortions dropped by 23 percent. There was a 28 percent decrease in the number of abortions performed on late-term viable fetuses.

Tiller's Women's Health Care Services is among the few clinics in the United States that perform abortions in the late second and third trimesters. It draws women from across the country.

Abortion opponents - including Kansans for Life - believe Tiller is violating a 1998 law that makes it illegal to perform abortions after 22 weeks of pregnancy if the fetus could live outside the womb. The fetus only can be aborted in life-threatening cases or if "substantial and irreversible impairment" would occur.

A Sedgwick County grand jury subpoenaed the medical files for 2,000 of Tiller's patients. On April 8, the Kansas Supreme Court will hear three cases challenging those subpoenas.

Dr. Tiller's office could not be reached for comment Friday evening. Planned Parenthood also could not be reached for comment.

Discussion

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29 March 2008
at 12:02 p.m.

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alm77 (Anonymous) says…

OR we could all be happy on both sides that the rate is decreasing.
29 March 2008
at 2:56 p.m.

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kansasbrandon (Anonymous) says…

4000 US soldiers killed in about 5 years in Iraq… 10,836 infants killed in one year in Kansas…

Where is the outrage here?
29 March 2008
at 3:06 p.m.

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kansasbrandon (Anonymous) says…

Or think of it this way, it is safer to be a soldier in Iraq than an unborn child in Kansas.
29 March 2008
at 3:55 p.m.

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grubesteak (Anonymous) says…

Well Mariann … I know for a fact that kansasbrandon is one of those 200 million.

What's your point?
29 March 2008
at 4:11 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

kansasbrandon (Anonymous) says:

“Or think of it this way, it is safer to be a soldier in Iraq than an unborn child in Kansas.”
____________________________________________________

I see. So then…

IRAQ

4,000 dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq/5 years = @ 800 dead per year

800 = ___% of ___[insert number here]___, the total number of troops sent to Iraq

abortion

10,386 = ___% of ___ [insert number here]___, the total number of pregnancies in Kansas in one year.

A certain percentage of *all* pregnancies will end in live births. Another percentage will end in “still births,” miscarriages, premature births that don't make it to 40 weeks etc.

It could be said that a pregnancy aborted @ 7 weeks might've been miscarried at 18 weeks.

I don't post these queries to “justify abortion,” kansasbrandon, but to show the child-like reasoning behind your statement. Not much reasoning at all, is there?

alm77 is right: Let's just take comfort that the number is going down, shall we?

Question: What can we proactively do, at the community level, to help that number go down even more next year?

The #1 cause of abortion is the unwanted pregnancy.

Reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and the number of abortions will automatically go down, as well.

How do we reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies? Thorough, realistic sex education… condom availability… promote & encourage abstinence (“secular abstinence” in public schools, “sacred abstinence” in church youth groups, private schools etc.).

Meanwhile… Mary Kay Culp will flitter and flutter about, gleefully high, drunk & giddy on the egotism of her own imagined “importance” in any of this. She and her group are responsible for tying up the legal system with pointless lawsuits, and nothing more. If they even invested 10% of their time and energy pursuing the strategy I outlined in the previous paragraph, the abortion rate might very well go down another 20-30%.

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
http://www.americanplan.org
29 March 2008
at 4:26 p.m.

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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“10,836 infants killed in one year in Kansas:”

My god, infants are being killed in Kansas?

Oh, wait, you mean human embryos and fetuses.
29 March 2008
at 5:18 p.m.

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Drew_Carey (Anonymous) says…

10,000 pts for the inventors of Wii. The boys are now too busy to make unwanted conceptions.

29 March 2008
at 8:30 p.m.

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situveux1 (Anonymous) says…

human embyos and fetuses? How about we just shorten that to humans. does that still make you feel good?
29 March 2008
at 8:56 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

kansasbrandon, it is not an infant until birth. Therefore you are spreading the usual anti-abortion BS. Glad to see rate of abortions is going down, however it quite possibly is due to better birth control education and not nutcases such as you and parkay.
29 March 2008
at 9:32 p.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

I saw an ultrasound picture of my daughter at 13 weeks; she was definitely a human. When you personally are ready to start performing abortions, especially after taking a good look at, say, a 13 week ultrasound, and I'm talking the real deal where you can see the baby moving his/her limbs and the heart beating and see his/her little skeleton, when you take a good look at a few of those and you're still willing to cut that baby up and suck him/her out with a vacuum hose, then go to it and may God have mercy on you. It might be easy to sit there and say “oh, it's just a fetus” when you've never seen a live ultrasound, but the baby is moving. No matter what medical term you wish to use, it's a baby.
You know the bumper sticker that says “Against Abortion? Don't Have One”? Try “For Abortion? Let's See You Perform One.”
29 March 2008
at 9:37 p.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

Just one more question for pro-abortion people who maintain that abortion should be legal, safe and rare—if there's nothing wrong with abortion, why should it be rare, and, if there is something wrong with abortion, why should it be legal? And if we should be happy that the rate is going down (which, agreed, we should), why? If it's nothing more than a perfectly legal medical procedure, what does it matter if 1 or 10,000 babies are being aborted?
29 March 2008
at 9:48 p.m.

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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…

Great! Now if we could have free birth control for all, and intense annual sex education beginning at age 10, we might be able to cut it in half again. Why, if we did that, we might even be able to have as low of an abortion rate as the Netherlands or many other European countries.

Nah, what am I thinking? This is Kansas! We SAY we don't like abortion, but we don't do anything at all to prevent it. Which means that we actually LIKE abortion, doesn't it?
29 March 2008
at 10:22 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

revshackleford (Anonymous) says:

“I saw an ultrasound picture of my daughter at 13 weeks; she was definitely a human.”
___________________________________________

I saw an ultrasound picture at 6-7 weeks. The doctor said it was about the size of a kidney bean. Yes, there was a heartbeat. The doctor laughed and said, “Tell the folks that I think it's gonna be a girl.” He was right!

So… was that “my daughter” that I was seeing? Considering that we'd just spent the past 10 years fighting infertility, considering the potential health risks facing my wife, both “pregnant” and “un-pregnant”… I was happy, but very, very reserved. I knew that it was a good start, but that there was also a very, very long way to go.

I also knew that if my wife went into labor anytime soon, we were up a creek without a paddle. We'd been looking at “baby stuff,” and at the time, there were no diapers small enough for a baby the size of a kidney bean. Neither were there little bottles, booties or blankies for such a small baby. So, naturally, I was quite happy that the bean decided to hang out inside my wife a little while longer, be ready for things outside. Even so, she threw a fit and trashed her little apartment at @ 5 weeks early, and an emergency C-section was necessary. 5 lbs. 5 ounces is a little bigger than a kidney bean, but it was still kind of a hairy experience, you know?

*

“You know the bumper sticker that says 'Against Abortion? Don't Have One?' Try 'For Abortion? Let's See You Perform One.' “
_______________________________________________

Hhhhmmmmmm… I don't think I'd better try that, “rev.” Mainly because:

1) I have no medical training

2) I'm not licensed in Kansas to do anything more than apply a Band-Aid or administer some Zyrtec liquid

3) If something went wrong, and the woman I was performing the abortion on died or became very ill, I think the woman and her family would be very, very cross with me!

—Ag
29 March 2008
at 10:26 p.m.

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gayokay (Anonymous) says…

Same sex sexual contact creates zero unwanted pregnancies or abortions.
29 March 2008
at 10:30 p.m.

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aginglady (Anonymous) says…

Ag..she okay? She had a much better chance being a girl than if she had been a boy. They tend to die or have ongoing problems.
I feel for ya.

Keep an eye on the new medical studies of premies, now mature. Lots of health issues, like being far more likely to also have a premie. She should know.The next generation premie could be the one with few abilities, or none.

29 March 2008
at 10:45 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

revshackleford (Anonymous) says:

“Just one more question for pro-abortion people who maintain that abortion should be legal, safe and rare-if there's nothing wrong with abortion, why should it be rare…”

[Actually, you don't have one more question—you have three. But there's nothing new or original about them, so I'll give you a few spare moments in hope that you'll get a little education]

Nothing wrong with an appendectomy, either—should we just have little booths for those on every street corner?

I'm not crazy about abortions as a means of birth control—that's what condoms, pills, IUDs, oral sex, masturbation and the word “No!” are for. Lots of other ways to achieve that level of intimacy with someone, without barreling head-first into procreation.

I believe abortions should be reserved for rape, incest, and dangerous medical situations. And there's no real reason for late-term abortions, IMHO.

But those are my beliefs—mine. I'll share those beliefs with others, but I will do my best not to impose them on others.

“… and, if there is something wrong with abortion, why should it be legal?”

If it's legal, rather than illegal, then it can be regulated. Would you take your child to an unregulated, unlicensed, pediatrician? In an office that was never inspected?

Like Staples, “That was easy!”

“And if we should be happy that the rate is going down (which, agreed, we should), why? If it's nothing more than a perfectly legal medical procedure, what does it matter if 1 or 10,000 babies are being aborted?”

It matters because every medical procedure involves a certain amount of risk. Why take such risks, if they can be prevented?

You gave your “bumper sticker alternative” earlier—now I'll give mine:

“Unwanted Pregnancies: What are you doing in your community to prevent them?” [Kinda wordy for a bumper sticker, but then bumper stickers aren't meant to solve problems, are they?]

—Ag
29 March 2008
at 10:52 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

aginglady: Things went just fine! Biggest risk at the time was the meconium stain, that she had ingested a bit of the fluid into her lungs right before birth (supposedly, that increases risks for respiratory problems later). The doctors suctioned most of that out, though, and she seems to be fine. Five weeks premature, but no really special care was needed—never put into an incubator or anything.

There were some concerns about bilirubin, but a few days of indirect morning sunlight (in front of closed blinds) cleared that up.

Last we checked, in the 95th percentile for height & weight, for kids her age! ;)
29 March 2008
at 10:57 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Reality_Check (Anonymous) says:

“Nah, what am I thinking? This is Kansas! We SAY we don't like abortion, but we don't do anything at all to prevent it. Which means that we actually LIKE abortion, doesn't it?”
_________________________________________________

I'm guessing that at least *some* of that post was dipped in sarcasm, R_C. But I have to admit: When I read some of the really rabid extremists on this board, I think they actually DO like it! They like the attention it brings them. They enjoy the license it gives them for dramatics, theatre, fantasizing about some of the world's dictators of the past. They enjoy talking about the details of some of the procedures.

For some, sadly, I think it borders on obsession… maybe even fetishism.
29 March 2008
at 11:18 p.m.

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aginglady (Anonymous) says…

Help me out here. A friend read my post, and called asking..
Phil Bradley heads up the alcohol business group here in town. White beard, stocky, etc.
There is a bartender at the SandBar named Phil, same white beard, jovial.
They asked me, Is this the same man?
I don't know.
You all will have to answer that question for us.
30 March 2008
at 9:04 a.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

quote:
“It matters because every medical procedure involves a certain amount of risk. Why take such risks, if they can be prevented?”

What medical procedure involves more risk than abortion? It is generally fatal to the baby. You actually compare abortion to an appendectomy? An “unwanted” child is analogous to an inflamed appendix? I'll assume I'm one of the “rabid extremists” (name-calling is always wrong unless it's absolutely necessary to save the life of an endangered argument), but if saying it's wrong to kill babies and to leave the decision about “quality of life” issues in hands such as yours makes me “rabid,” well, I guess I'll just keep foaming at the mouth until they tie me to a tree and shoot me like Ole Yeller.
Listen, I was “pro-choice” once upon a time but I was compelled to change my position after seeing all the p-c arguments are as substantial as wet cardboard. I used to agree with the “if you're anti-abortion you should adopt 12 babies” and all that, but that is essentially saying “if you don't do what I believe is right I'll do something you don't think is right”—why do two wrongs make a right where abortion is concerned? The bottom line is this: I could not say with any certainty that abortion does not equal killing a baby, and after seeing my baby so active at 13 weeks, I would not have called her anything but a baby. If abortion is killing a baby, then it's wrong, completely independent of any person's or government's decision to adopt, provide universal health care,etc. Those are separate issues from whether it is right or wrong to kill what at the very least is a “potential” baby.
30 March 2008
at 11:48 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

How is a woman walking into an abortion clinic like another woman arriving at the hospital for an appendectomy?

They each have something in their body that they want taken out.

That is a cold, ugly thing to say… but at the moment a nurse is swabbing their arm to insert a needle for the IV, that's how the woman will likely view it. Nothing you or I can do will change it.

Can't help but notice that you've said nothing about actually preventing unwanted pregnancies. Do you believe that preventing unwanted pregnancies, reducing their incidence… is a “separate issue” as well?
30 March 2008
at 3:16 p.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

I haven't said anything about preventing unwanted pregnancies because that's not the topic; the topic is whether or not abortion, any abortion, constitutes taking a human life.
A comment above says:
“I believe abortions should be reserved for rape, incest, and dangerous medical situations. And there's no real reason for late-term abortions, IMHO”

Again, I ask, if there's nothing morally wrong with abortion, why should it be 'reserved' for special circumstances? If it does not involve the taking of a human life, why shouldn't it be readily available to any female under any circumstance? You haven't addressed that, other than to say it should be legal so it can be regulated—that doesn't resolve the issue of whether or not a human is being medically deprived of his/her life. If the 'fetus' is not a baby until he/she is delivered, what is wrong with late-term abortions? Why does it matter when the mother, as you so nicely put it, wants something taken out of her body?
Lastly, r.e. “Nothing you or I can do will change it,” sure sounds like something a well-intentioned defeatist would have said during the civil rights struggle. As I noted above, my opinion on the matter has changed, as did the opinion of “Roe” in Roe v. Wade (Norma McCorvey).
30 March 2008
at 3:43 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

The difference, in a word, is time.

Right now, abortion is legal in this country. I would rather have things the way they are now, than the way they were 40 or 50 years ago… when a woman who wanted an abortion had to go someplace seedy, or take matters into her own hands at home.

A fetus at week 6 is much, much less a human than one at wee 32. That may be hard for you to understand, rev; I understand it easily. :)

You choose to argue the emotional side; I prefer the logical and legal sides of things.

—Ag

30 March 2008
at 9:25 p.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

quote:
A fetus at week 6 is much, much less a human than one at wee 32

Okay, how about 31 weeks? I have a good friend whose healthy daughter was born at 26 weeks. There is nothing emotional about arguing in favor of life. I've lost count of how many of my pointed issues you've sidestepped. I know you're not a doctor, but, seriously, could you watch an ultrasound of a healthy, moving 12-week old fetus, then personally turn around and cut it to pieces or poison it because the mother doesn't want it? Yes or no, could you?
30 March 2008
at 10:18 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Asked and answered. I could not, and would not perform an abortion. I haven't the medical skills, and believe it or not, I pass out at the sight of real blood. Doesn't matter where the blood comes from: abortion, brain injury, amputation, gunshot, stabbing, knife accident in the kitchen. I just don't do well.

I didn't sidestep your issues, as they were pretty small issues to begin with—at least to me. There are a lot of jobs that I wouldn't perform, either because I don't have the skills, the interest, or the stomach for them. We're all human, we all have limitations.

I'm not advocating for abortion—I advocate for women and their physicians to have that choice open to them, if **they** decide it's the best course of action.

Your logic is seriously flawed. Unless, maybe this is your attempt to encounter the ol' “If you really care about the babies, why don't you adopt a few” tactic…

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
http://www.americanplan.org
31 March 2008
at 3:27 p.m.

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revshackleford (Anonymous) says…

quote:”We're all human, we all have limitations.”Wow, my logic is seriously flawed?? The crux of the biscuit is “we are all human”—do you get it? Your standards are so malleable that 'human' is defined as whatever you say it is. If you want to kill it, it's not human. Embryonic? Quadraplegic? Severe eczema? One last question, and this is for the mink coat, the toaster oven and the trip to Vegas: at what week does your fetus become 'human' and have his/her right to live outweigh the mother/m.d.'s desire to dispose of him/her?Since this has clearly dwindled down to just you and me, fellow human, I say over, out and peace to you.
1 April 2008
at 12:24 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

“One last question, and this is for the mink coat, the toaster oven and the trip to Vegas: at what week does your fetus become 'human' and have his/her right to live outweigh the mother/m.d.'s desire to dispose of him/her?”Since I'm neither a mother nor a doctor… ask the mother and/or her doctor.”Since this has clearly dwindled down to just you and me, fellow human, I say over, out and peace to you.”Naaah… extremists like you are addicted to forcing your beliefs on others. This is especially true for “reverends.” If not here, then elsewhere.You'll be back… on this thread, or another… ;)—Ag
1 April 2008
at 10:19 p.m.

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RonaldWilson (Anonymous) says…

FAgnostick-Do you know how many unwanted pregnancies are walking around the world today? You may be one of them. Unwanted pregnancies are indeed real live people. Unwanted or not, they live. You are an unwanted poster. Shall we terminate you? How dare you assess a value on the life of another human being. What makes you the arbiter of human life? You are but a speck of dust. And, when you realize that you will be better for it. All men are created equal, endowded by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are LIFE, liberty and the persuit of happiness. I take these rights to be self-evident. Do you???
1 April 2008
at 10:31 p.m.

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RonaldWilson (Anonymous) says…

I agree with Agnostick that a mother should be able to choose to end the life of her child is circumstances warrant it, and if his mother should seek my blessing.