To the editor:
Our vice president, just back from a trip to Iraq, makes the statement that the United States' involvement in Iraq is due to its part in 9/11. We all know that Saddam Hussein and Iraq weren't involved, so Cheney's statement must be an attempt to justify U.S. involvement.
I was a resident of south Texas in 2002, and I well remember George W. Bush making the announcement that when elected president, he would avenge the threat Saddam Hussein made against his father, George H.W. Bush, no matter what it takes, so I think this and the possibility of additional income through Halliburton and the no-bid contracts allowed by the White House are the big reasons we are at war in Iraq.
Why else the mismanagement of funds and the extravagant spending on the most expensive and elaborate embassy in the world that there is a possibility the United States may use only short-term.
Howard Lynch,
Lawrence
Comments
Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 5 years, 1 month ago
"So the United States made a decision: to hunt down the evil of terrorism and kill it where it grows"
Then we abandoned that important mission in Afghanistan and invaded Iraq where there was an egotistical dictator that only gave lip service to Al Queda. Now we have a whole lot of new converts to Al Queda to fight who didn't exist before. I've asked over and over, why is Bin Laden still alive? Why are there still Al Queda in Afghanistan? How many new recruits have they gotten since we invaded Iraq? The invasion of Iraq has been a godsend to the terrorists, more targets, more recruits. Bush has no goals for the future. He'll just leave it up to the next president to clean up the mess. What a wimp.
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
Naturally, dorothyhr's excellent question is being ignored. So, I'll take a crack at it, and bring out my ol' "broken record"...
On January 7, 2006, journalist Jill Carroll was kidnapped by Muslim extremists; Carroll was freed several weeks later, on or about March 30th. A few months later, on or about August 10th, a crack team of Marines captured the kidnappers.
Osama bin Laden helped orchestrate, finance and inspire the World Trade Center bombings on September 11, 2001. More than six years later, bin Laden is sitll free, and still inspiring terrorists with his regular videotape and audiotape releases. Most recent reports suggest that his organization, Al Qaeda, is concentrated in the hills along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
Bush swore to make bin Laden's capture a priority. Why is bin Laden still free: and alive: and communicating freely with his followers?
Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
posessionannex (Anonymous) says:
"Since I generally argue from a radical right position, I've been archiving my previous posts in preparation for my inevitable banning from this site."
Personally, I think you usually argue from a "radical right" or extremist right position... but every once in a while, you slip up and actually let slip a few intelligent words of moderacy.
Shame you can't tap into that more often...
--Ag
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
It takes a severely willfully ignorant ideologue to deny that BushCo lied (continually) to the American people about a connection between Saddam Hussein and the attack of 9/11. Many of them still believe it, and Cheney's statement is clearly designed to reinforce that belief.
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
Vet4Freedom and others who feel that the tone of this message board is unjust...
Why, then, are you still here?
Why do some of you, even after having one identitiy eliminated, keep re-registering, time and time again, to someplace that you find so unfair, so offensive?
Those of you that don't like it here: There is a bit of fine print in your membership agreement that allows you to get a partial refund on your registration fee, if you don't like things here. It's only a partial refund, and it takes a couple of weeks to get (so I'm told), but it can be done, and has been done in the past.
You paid good money to post here. Why fritter away your money on someplace you enjoy so very, very little... where there are, literally, dozens of other message boards (and probably free, to boot) where the political environment might be so much better for you?
Just a pondering... or two...
--Ag
cato_the_elder 5 years, 1 month ago
Agnostick, bin Laden is free because President Clinton and his advisers deliberately chose not to take advantage of the sure opportunity of his capture, primarily out of concern for how certain European countries would view such action. Had they done what they should have, as President Reagan did with Libya, the tragedies of September 11, 2001, could have been avoided.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
"So, do we invade Pakistan, a sovereign nation with nuclear weapons, to get bin Laden?"
That's what BushCo did with Iraq-- they claimed Saddam had WMD, and needed to be disposed of. Why the different policy with Pakistan?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
"Agnostick, bin Laden is free because President Clinton and his advisers deliberately chose not to take advantage of the sure opportunity of his capture,"
Never happened. Repeating lies doesn't make them true.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
" She is a Barack supporter and Bush-hater,"
He's murderous lying a**hole. What's not to hate?
" yet even she refuses to even repeat that bogus 1 million dead figure because she knows it would be a lie."
No one knows exactly how many people have died. BushCo have set out from the start to conceal that figure, and in a country that has been destroyed in every way conceivable, we'll never know exactly how many have died. But given that there are over 4 million refugees in a country of 24 million, the surveys which estimate that as many as 1 million (or more) people have died, it isn't all that hard to believe-- unless you know nothing about anything outside your precious ideology.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
"We never abandoned the mission in Afghanistan. It's an insult to the troops who have been serving in Afghanistan to say that they have not been doing their jobs. They have been there the whole time and risking their lives every day."-Vet4
Lets distinguish the difference between troops doing their jobs and the failed outcome of a mission......
The troops do what is asked of them and they have done so for the most part. But when it comes to the overall construction of the mission plan they have little to do with it's design.
The troops can do their job and still be part of a failed mission.
Using the ....(It's an insult to the troops who have been serving in Afghanistan to say that they have not been doing their jobs.)....as an argumentative tactic is an example of the " say anything critical about our overseas operations then you are insulting and not supporting our troops" crowd. Vet don't be one of those people....please
pisafromthewest 5 years, 1 month ago
scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
"Explain the surge, or the fact that 2007 was the most violent of the war:if major combat ops have ended?"
So tell us, scenebooster, when the last tank battle took place. Or maybe the last battle between opposing aircraft. Or a battle between brigade sized units of organized armies.
Of course, if you really think that an operation to capture a handful of resistance fighters using small arms and IED's constitutes a "major combat operation," that goes a long way towards explaining why the Democrat's heroine defines this as ducking and running for cover during a sniper attack:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/03/20/PH2008032002697.jpg
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
Vet4
I don't see where Dorothyhr said we had no troops in Afghanistan.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
"I truly feel sorry for you. You must lead a miserable life."
Ah, that's touching. You want to know what would be truly miserable? To be an ignorant, ideological cheerleader for a bunch of lying, murdering thugs.
"They have? Where's the proof for that? Or are you merely manufacturing claims again?"
You never tire if demonstrating your ignorance, do you? The military has repeatedly said that they don't do casualty counts. I don't believe that, but that just means their real intent is to conceal the count, and not to just not make the count.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
"Which is it?"
WTF are you talking about?
pisafromthewest 5 years, 1 month ago
logrithmic (Anonymous) says:
"Bush's war is illegal and criminal because it violated the U.N. Charter ..."
Maybe you'd be kind enough to provide a link to the UN resolution forbidding US entry into Iraq or ordering the US to leave.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
"Why do you nutcases call it an illegal "war" then turn around and say Bush never declared war and proceed to prop up your propaganda?"
The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress.
The Iraq war was never approved by congress.
Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 5 years, 1 month ago
There are too few troops in Afghanistan. All our troops should be there, not Iraq. They can't do their job, because they were ordered to do something else. They left the capture of bin Laden up to Afghani warlords who are on the side the pays the most. Our energies have been focused on Iraq, not Afghanistan. Their commander in chief is the one responsible for them not being able to complete what should have been the real mission.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
"The Iraq war was never approved by congress."-Jcjayhawk
Correction the war was "approved" through a RESOLUTION sponsored by Bush and approved by vote in congress.
The case for the war was outlined in the resolution (H.J. Res. 114). Some of the reasons are violations from the previous military engagement with Iraq and had nothing to do with 911. One other reason was Iraq's treatment of it's civilians which as deplorable as it was could be applied to a host of other countries that fit the bill.
The most disturbing provision of the resolution is as follows:
The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."
Read the part about defending the national security of the US against the threat POSED by Iraq?
Iraq was crippled and incapable of attacking us. Any theoretical attack would not be a case for war........err I mean extended military engagement.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
7 out of 9 of H.J. Res. 114's list of reasons for action can be applied to Iran, possibly Saudi Araiba, and a few other mid-east countries with stronger ties to Al Qaeda and state sponsored terrorism.
pisafromthewest 5 years, 1 month ago
logrithmic;
And Hussein was following the UN Charter when he attacked not one but two of his neighbors?
The UN charter has never been worth the paper it's written on. It does nothing ... nothing ... to control people like Saddam Hussein and everything to hamstring a country that follows the rules from taking any action. The UN's own resolutions called for a reconvening of the security council if Iraq did not comply with their earlier resolutions, and Hussein laughed in their face for eleven years while the UN hemmed and hawed and tried to make up their minds whether to ... you guessed it ... pass yet another useless resolution.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
"She said we abandoned Afghanistan. Is there some confusion over the word "abandon"?"-Vet4
I seriously doubt that Dorothyhr contends that we have NO troops in Afghanistan eventhough he/she used the word abandon. It's similar to the interpretation of what Cheny had said regarding Iraq's involvment.......or lack thereof..... in 911.
It's this type of selective & literal interpretation of words that troubled me when you replied to the post. You are obviously an educated individual on the topics of the war. (which I sincerely believe) I also enjoy your insights. But we both know what Dorothyhr ment by abondon. Your energy is better applied to providing information.
Jcjayhawk1 5 years, 1 month ago
"Can you tell us when Congress authorized the use of force during Operation Desert Fox and Operation Allied Force? When did the UN offer its approval for those operations?"-Vet4
There are 2 types of resolutions we are talking about here.
1.) The UN resolutions. Resolutions that provide authority for operations such as Desert Fox. UN resolutions cover a wide variety of compliances enacted by committee.
2.) The H.J Res. 411. The resolution approved that gave Bush the power to act as he wished according to the threat Iraq posed at the time. (which was little to none)
My commentary should be referenced only to the latter.
The problem is..... Congress and the President(s) have replaced declaration of war with resolution & extended military action. We are at war. Our actions are consistent with war.....let us declare it not redefine it. Resolutions are created to bypass the checks and balances that are important when deciding to go to war.
I think the US should operate independently of the UN and throw any relationship we have with them into the toilet.
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
Vet4Freedom (Anonymous) says:
"So if my family were eating at Applebee's and a group of immature college students was swearing up a storm, you would advise me to not ask the students to clean up their language and instead refrain from eating at Applebee's in the future?"
Oh, absolutely not!
In that situation, I would hope that you and your family would voice your concerns to management, and that the unruly patrons would be shown the door... and never allowed to dine there again.
But what unfortunately happens is that sometimes, even after those unruly types of patrons are shown the door... they somehow feel that the dining establishment "owes" them something. So they try one tactic after another: altering their appearance, altering their names, trying to sneak in with other guests, coming in the side/back door rather than the front door. And upon being exposed for the troublemakers they are, management escorts them to the door... again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
I'm sure you and I both know that this is much, much more analogous to the situation we have in this thread... and have had in several other threads.
For example, this one individual who has used various and sundry names like...
Arminius Arminius2 kozakid devildog ferdinandlanghoff sinsofthehusband
I know there's at least 10 others that I've missed...
This individual keeps coming back, time and time again, spouting off the same, tired crap: "Clinton did this, Clinton did that. Clinton didn't catch Bin Laden, Clinton causes hurricanes, Clinton causes tornadoes, Clinton Clinton Clinton..."
Truly, my heart goes out to this sad, disturbed person. They obviously have some deep, troubling emotional issues tied to one man... as if, everything that's ever gone bad in this person's life or the history of the USA can somehow be attributed to former president Clinton. I can't begin to imagine the suffering this person's "significant other" and/or children must be going through. The long hours they're ignored by their loved one, all so the spouse and parent they want to spend time with can spend countless hours on another book, another web site, another audio recording... sign up for another free email address to sneak onto another web site they've been booted off of, so they can preach more of the same, tired stuff.
Really, it's unsettling.
But to get back to your question: The owners of establishments like bars, nightclubs, restaurants and web sites sometimes have to deal with unruly visitors and patrons. "Cost of doing business," I suppose. It's when these people can't take a hint that things truly become miserable for everyone.
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
logrithmic (Anonymous) says:
Vet4:
For you and all the world to see: Cheney saying that Iraq was involved in 9-11.
Cheney: I never linked Iraq with 9/11. Oh really? by BI30
I'm not quite sure that's what is said here--but nonetheless, here's a link to the transcript from that program:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/
The more pertinent question for me is the Saudi connection. Many folks have brought that to the attention of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld. It's always been brushed away.
And I still say the focus has to be Bin Laden. Not because of his power or money, per se, but because to the world, he has become the symbol, the figurehead, the "messiah" of Al Qaeda and its associated movements. It's his face that appears on most of the videos. It's his voice that is heard on most of the audio recordings. It's his picture that is carried when terrorists march through the streets.
The 9/11 terrorists didn't just write down 100 different buildings on little strips of paper, and draw one out of a bag--they deliberately chose the WTC because they were the two tallest buildings in the USA, that happened to be in the largest city in the USA (and one of the largest cities on Earth), and because they were gleaming landmarks to free enterprise, capitalism, and freedom of choice--all dangerous, poisonous ideas to fascist theocrats of every shade, stripe, religion and faith.
They went after our symbols--we have to go after theirs (as well as the tactical, military, financial etc. powers)
Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org
mick 5 years, 1 month ago
Read up on PNAC in wikipedia. Read their manifesto and you'll see what the invasion and occupation of Iraq is really all about. Iran is next and none of the current candidates will do anything to stop the neocon agenda. The mainstream media will make it seem acceptable to the hypnotized American.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
This is the sketch from Monty Python's Holy Grail that I think typifies the defenders of all things BushCo. Just substitute the posts of any BushCo sycophant for the words of the Black Night, and I think you get the gist.
Enjoy--
ARTHUR: You fight with the strength of many men, Sir knight. I am Arthur, King of the Britons. [pause] I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the land to join me in my Court of Camelot. [pause] You have proved yourself worthy; will you join me? [pause] You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy. BLACK KNIGHT: None shall pass. ARTHUR: What? BLACK KNIGHT: None shall pass. ARTHUR: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir knight, but I must cross this bridge. BLACK KNIGHT: Then you shall die. ARTHUR: I command you as King of the Britons to stand aside! BLACK KNIGHT: I move for no man. ARTHUR: So be it! [hah] [parry thrust] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's left arm off] ARTHUR: Now stand aside, worthy adversary. BLACK KNIGHT: 'Tis but a scratch. ARTHUR: A scratch? Your arm's off! BLACK KNIGHT: No, it isn't. ARTHUR: Well, what's that then? BLACK KNIGHT: I've had worse. ARTHUR: You liar! BLACK KNIGHT: Come on you pansy! [hah] [parry thrust] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right arm off] ARTHUR: Victory is mine! [kneeling] We thank thee Lord, that in thy merc- [hah] BLACK KNIGHT: Come on then. ARTHUR: What? BLACK KNIGHT: Have at you! ARTHUR: You are indeed brave, Sir knight, but the fight is mine. BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, had enough, eh? ARTHUR: Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left. BLACK KNIGHT: Yes I have. ARTHUR: Look! BLACK KNIGHT: Just a flesh wound. [bang] ARTHUR: Look, stop that. BLACK KNIGHT: Chicken! Chicken! ARTHUR: Look, I'll have your leg. Right! [whop] BLACK KNIGHT: Right, I'll do you for that! ARTHUR: You'll what? BLACK KNIGHT: Come 'ere! ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me? BLACK KNIGHT: I'm invincible! ARTHUR: You're a loony. BLACK KNIGHT: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on then. [whop] [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's other leg off] BLACK KNIGHT: All right; we'll call it a draw. ARTHUR: Come, Patsy. BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, oh, I see, running away then. You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
Sorry I didn't oblige, black knight.
Agnostick 5 years, 1 month ago
Well, our current president bears a striking resemblance to this fellow, so, what'd you expect??
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x298/Agnostick/alfredbush.jpg
merrill 5 years, 1 month ago
Protest is justifed as a reaction to the insanity of the blood thirsty republican party that which mismanages the economy much like the local "emergency real estate anti economic growth Chamber party" demostrates. Both expand our tax bills.
Why is protest justified? British Correspondent Patrick Cockburn on Iraq's Growing Sectarian Divide and the Myth of "Success" in the US "Surge" As a new civil war threatens to explode in Iraq between US-backed Iraqi government forces and Shia militiamen, we go to London to speak with Patrick Cockburn, Iraq correspondent for the London Independent. Covering the invasion and occupation from the ground in Iraq for the past five years, Cockburn has been described as "the best Western journalist at work in Iraq today." He is author of the new book Muqtada: Muqtada al-Sadr, the Shia Revival and the Struggle for Iraq. http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/27/british_correspondent_patrick_cockburn_on_iraqs Iraq Imploding As We Speak http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-implodes-as-shia-fights-shia-801214.html http://antiwar.com/ Baghdad - Most dangerous City http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,484661,00.html
ReadingSports 5 years, 1 month ago
Here is the report on captured Iraqi documents that shows the relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda. It should dispel any myths about the relationship between the two and why the president led the United States to war.
It's an interesting read; although, you have to get past the rather vague Executive summary and read the report. put the http:// in front of the following: a.abcnews.com/images/pdf/Pentagon_Report_V1.pdf
or http://a.abcnews.com/images/pdf/Pentagon_Report_V1.pdf
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago
"Actually, it's for you to see that Cheney says there may have been ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda, ties that have since been confirmed."
Similar ties can be found between George Bush and Hugo Chavez.
Commenting has been disabled for this item.