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Letters to the Editor

Amusing claim

June 16, 2008

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To the editor:

Cal Thomas' amusing claim (Journal-World, June 13) that Sen. Barack Obama isn't a Christian and that he is a false prophet fails several tests (except that of fancy semantic fencing). Thomas claims Christians all must hold "the deity and uniqueness of Christ as the sole mediator between God and Man and be a Christian."

Thomas states that Obama believes that other paths may lead to knowing God and that the lack of belief in Jesus as a personal savior will not condemn you to hell. This position might expose Obama to the wrathful, heaven-shaking thunder and gaping rends in the Earth's surface filled with noxious, sulfurous fumes reserved for false prophets (and probably baby killers, homosexuals, drunkards and Democrats as well).

Thomas' position is that of some evangelicals who hold that scripture is the sole authority - not interpretation by the church. That's a blatant poke in the eye by those who do accord authority to their institutions, as do most Catholics, Cal, just in case you overlooked this in your haste to include Catholics under your skinny tent.

Thomas is stirring up the ruthless worst in folks by attempting to expose his political enemies to religious condemnation and attack for suggesting that the appearance of Jesus on earth was a waste of time. Hey, Cal, is it time for you to summon the science abusers, the church and clinic bombers for action against this apostate that you alone have publicly identified?

Stu Nowlin,

Lawrence

Comments

dlkrm 6 years, 3 months ago

Great point, RestoreReason. Why is it that anti-God liberals are so indignant when someone points out that Obama is not a Christian?In addition:This was a dumb letter. And hateful.It is a central tenet of Christianity that Jesus Christ is the only mediatior between God and man.And yes, it is likely that most Democrats will be in Hell. But so will most Republicans.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 3 months ago

If Obama claims that he is a Christian, then he's a Christian. If he claims he's a Muslim, then he's a Muslim. If he says he's an adherent of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then that's what he is. What he claims as his religion will never be a litmus test on whether I would vote for him or not. But if he says that he will base his policies on his religious beliefs, I will never vote for him.

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Robert bickers 6 years, 3 months ago

Nice thing about Christianity - the Reformation lets us have different ideas under the same religion. Ideas like "the deity and uniqueness of Christ as the sole mediator between God and Man," is not true for all Christians. I can talk directly to God - no intercessory is needed.I can also choose not to condemn non-Christians.

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gr 6 years, 3 months ago

So Stu is saying Catholics don't hold the scriptures as their sole authority. This seems to give ammunition to those who say Christians just make up things and believe them. This is like saying Catholics don't believe in the Bible - that anything in the Bible is open to overruling by those deemed to be in charge. That to me sounds like a "blatant poke in the eye" to Catholics.

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OnlyTheOne 6 years, 3 months ago

Obama is the anti-Christ.Think about it.

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christy kennedy 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, great letter. Thanks for writing it. Cal doesn't usually have much to support his claims.

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BigAl 6 years, 3 months ago

Posted by craigers in another forum: "It is the implication that Cal is saying one way is right and the other is wrong that infuriates people"I agree with this statement. For whatever reason, Cal Thomas doesn't like the religion of Obama. And I am not even sure he knows what religion Obama is. But, Cal totally misses the point that in this country, you can choose whatever religion, if any, that you want.You do NOT have to please Cal Thomas or anyone else.Cal Thomas is just another heavily biased talking head.

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1029 6 years, 3 months ago

It's 2008. Isn't it about time to admit that christianity is a primitive idea of the past?

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

duplenty, Where's your questioning of those that posted dumb comments with great letter? Oh that's right, you like to only criticize those that don't agree with you. Stand up person like yourself, I guess I should expect it. lolJimbo, how can you say that you can talk to God with no intercessory? I'm curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion or doctrine.

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

duplenty, where is your comment to BigAl??? Typical...It is a dumb letter to attack Cal for taking a legitimate test to see if Obama is in fact a Christian. Christians, who have been born again believe in one way of salvation. So if Obama says he believes there are many ways, then he isn't a Christian. Very simple test and for Cal to point that out and people bash it is dumb. If there were an article about him that says: "Cal fails the athiest test", I doubt anybody would be upset. Is that better duplenty? I want to please you by all means!

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

Duplenty, are you this thick??? How can you ask that? If I were to reply in a paper in college that I agreed with the author of a work and provided nothing else, I would no doubt fail that paper as well. I see what you are saying but to ignore your obvious bias is only the result in hubris. Obama declared himself a Christian, which means he should be able to declare the tenets of his faith. If they don't match Christianity, then he is not a Christian which was the point of Thomas' article. As for people like me who judge others, (like you are doing by the way) is what we all do to decide on what candidates to vote for. Does the candidate represent my best interests? If not, you don't vote for him. Whether your judgment is declared based off of some other non-archaic means is a moot point. I find it humorous that you and others fly off the handle when one puts people to the scrutiny of the Bible only to see those people do the same to others but because their standard doesn't use the Bible it is okay. Seems real intolerant and hypocritical in my opinion.

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Speakout 6 years, 3 months ago

I thought about it, laughed about it, and forgot about it just like you should.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 3 months ago

"This seems to give ammunition to those who say Christians just make up things and believe them." Personally, I think that Christians believe things that someone else made up, albeit centuries or millennia before they were born.

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dandelion 6 years, 3 months ago

Obama will represent all people, even the atheists. So what if he doesn't pass the litmus test of those Christians who want a theocracy. They're a minority anyway. And guess what? This slightly to the left Dem is a Christian. Of course, not one of Cal's sects.

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh duplenty, I will try to get this simple enough for you...This will be my final post since I can get it into your brain. There were other posts on here like mine, but you chose to denounce mine in a rude manner and then you ignored the others because you agreed with the letter writer. You told me I needed to justify my claims but didn't to others that agreed with you. See where this is going?You said:But if you say "that's dumb", that's a challenge to the veracity of what the letter writer is claiming, and thus requires a bit more that just the declaritive. DId you not write any papers in school?And you don't give the other "great letter" posts the same attention. Why is that? A personal vindetta?? HMmm? If you are going to critique my posts with such veracity, then I expect it of others too. Yes even the ones that agree with you.Carry on secular hypocrite!!

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

Sorry for posting again but the quote you are using from my post is actually duplenty's so you will have to take up the poor word choice with him/her.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 3 months ago

"That's not a logical argument. If Obama claimed he was a frog, would you say, "then he's a frog"?"Religion is 100% about belief. Being a frog has nothing to with belief, although a belief that one is a frog isn't necessarily any more illogical than religious faith."He campaigned in a Chicago church yesterday. Is that a deal breaker with you?"No.

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dlkrm 6 years, 3 months ago

Landslide, your certainty about the unknowable is baffling.

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paavopetie 6 years, 3 months ago

I've always thought that Jesus is a liberal while God is a conservative. Clearly, God is pro-life (based on all of those yard signs), and only Republicans are pro-life. Therefore, God is a Republican. But Jesus, he believes everyone should have a job and be paid the same (Matthew 20). That's a very Democratic thing to believe. (Downright socialist if you ask me.)

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Mark Stone 6 years, 3 months ago

Cal Thomas can call himself anything he likes but what he is, is a water carrier for the radical right. He argues from the "Triumphalist" or "belief superiority" position of conservative Christians. This is the view that his beliefs are the one and only true faith, the only path to God and salvation. Religious tolerance is an extremely intolerant idea to those who adhere to the triumphalist view of their beliefs. What Thomas does not admit is that he has the same triumphalist view of Christianity that radical Islamic clerics have of the Muslem faith. Like Thomas these clerics demand that their interpretation of the Muslem faith is the one and only true path. These are the same Islamic clerics that neo-conservatives have promoted the use the United States military to destroy. Conflict between faiths is the inevitable result of the triumphalist view of religious beliefs. The triumphalist view within Christianity and Islam breeds an atmosphere of contempt, mistrust and intolerance because each group is so afraid that their own particular belief may turn out not to be the one and only way to know God.In contrast Barack Obama seems to be embracing a more pluralist view of Christianity. That does not make him less of a Christian, it is just given man's finite and fallible nature, it is beyond the ability of any single religion to absolutely describe God and God's will with absolute precision. Instead, all religions make an attempt at capturing this infinite Reality, God. The religious tolerance Obama is referring to concentrates on aspects that are shared by different religions instead of their seemingly irreconcilable differences. That position is a more conducive with the religious freedoms described in our Constitution than the triumphalist view of my way or the highway [to hell]. Even if the irreconcilable differences between religions are never fully resolved, at least their followers of will not be killing each other in some misguided and vain effort to illustrate superiority of one belief over another. Because religious beliefs are based on faith and cannot be proved, the triumphalist argument taken to it's logical conclusion inevitably leads to conflict. A triumphalist like Cal Thomas can call himself anything he likes but no matter how you look at it, people who support killing other people over religious differences are self-defeating, destructive and wrong. They prescribe to a radical ideology that breaks one of the main tenants of the religion they profess to follow and the secular laws of every civilized nation.

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ignati5 6 years, 3 months ago

Great letter. Cal sucks, and it's nice for people to say so.

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

Sorry I meant detail where I used veracity. I used the wrong word... sorry.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 3 months ago

You're really grasping at frogs now, cato.

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craigers 6 years, 3 months ago

duplenty, you are right in the definition of the word. I was unsure after my post when I used it so I looked it up. That is why I changed it.

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dlkrm 6 years, 3 months ago

Landslide,Which religious group does Cal Thomas support killing? You're attack is feeble, wrong, and meanspirited, even though my understanding is that lefties cannot be meanspirited.

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orbiter 6 years, 3 months ago

craigers: you said your post was going to be the last one and then you posted again. carry on theocratic hypocrite! Plus, why don't you ask your infallible god to help out your word choice, because "detail" works just as poorly as "veracity" and in fact makes even less sense.--"But if you say "that's dumb", that's a challenge to the DETAIL of what the letter writer is claiming, and thus requires a bit more that just the declarative (sic)." A challenge to the detail? So, simply saying "that's dumb" is a challenge to the "detail" of what the letter writer is saying? What? What detail? Which one? Detail? Are you serious? And then you try to condescend? Very interesting. It's either a window to your tortured soul or a display of your poor language skills.Unlike your god, we regular mortals cannot know your thoughts. We cannot wade through your poor rhetorical skills to find this detail you speak of.btw: you use "secular" as a pejorative. Are you a theocrat? This is really what you want? And if it is, I do hope you are honest with yourself and understand that you are anti-American. If you truly want a theocracy you are a traitor to this country. Understand this. And if you don't try reading the Constitution, or just ask your god. He'll give you the gist of it.

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cato_the_elder 6 years, 3 months ago

Restore, if Senator Obama were to claim that he was a frog, then Bozo would be able to assert that he was a Crawfish Frog, a/k/a "Alice T. Frog," the existence of which, even though one had never actually been seen in Douglas County, was the initial reason for not building the South Lawrence Trafficway after it was approved by the voters in 1991. Thereafter, if a visit by Senator Obama to Lawrence could be arranged, then for the first time ever we would be able to observe a Crawfish Frog in Douglas County.

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bearded_gnome 6 years, 3 months ago

from john 14:66 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father except by me."O'bama's church, he and Michelle have given tens of thousands of dollars to it. it teaches black liberation theology. as taught by james Cone, it includes "kill the white oppressor." it is more marxist than what is taught in the Scriptures, as in the title "liberation theology." O'bama's "coming to the knowledge of Christ" is not what we mean when we say that. in his context, it is works based, and in a twisted definition of who God is. O'bama, his questionable associations: his hateful bigoted pastor of twenty years; his church (even had his daughters under this evil teaching); his wife hasn't been proud of america most of her adult life; his unrepentant terrorist bomber buddy who said in a 9-11-01 new york times article he regretted they hadn't done more than bomb the pentagon and nypd hq; and his wacko racist catholic priest friend of 20 years who was on his committee of religious leaders for his campaign, he called Hilary a white supremicist.
just a note, max1 above, ignore his out of context quotes. when y you get him to write instead of his inane quotes, you find he is a very very dim buld. he even slimed me for making a thoughtful and considerate post on one of the 13-hundred of del shooting stories, I was noting the gravity of two men dying. btw, more than one poster has told me they were astounded by max1's very bad behavior in that.

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Mark Stone 6 years, 3 months ago

dlkrmI am sorry that you are baffled. Maybe I can at least clarify one point. I did not intend to allude that Cal Thomas directly called for an attack on any particular religious group. More accurately, he supports a view of religion that has lead to conflicts where people have killed other people over their religious differences. There are numerous examples of this through history right up to present day. It is the triumphalist view of Christianity and of Islam held by people like the conservative Cal Thomas and the like-minded radical Islamic clerics that is self-defeating, destructive and wrong.Now maybe you can explain the remainder of your second comment.

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staff04 6 years, 3 months ago

marion-"Amen Brother! Praise Cheeses, for he will keep this serpent from....awww dammit! Somebody call an ambulance!"

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jafs 6 years, 3 months ago

If anyone in public life wants to proclaim their religious views, especially as a way to garner votes, they should be prepared to explain and defend them from criticism.I don't personally care whether Obama is Christian or not.Is there really only one way to be Christian? And, who gets to decide that?Our country is founded on the Constitution, not the Bible, and the main litmus test, it seems to me, is whether a presidential candidate is going to remain true to the Constitution and it's principles.

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