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Archive for Monday, July 7, 2008

Cost-benefit analysis of immigration is ordered

July 7, 2008

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— After having failed to adopt immigration legislation this year, lawmakers are hoping a study will help them reach consensus next year.

"Before we decide on fiscal policies that affect our economy, shouldn't we have some idea on what we are doing and what the outcomes might be if we make those changes?" asked state Rep. Nile Dillmore, D-Wichita.

Dillmore inserted into the state budget bill a measure that calls for the Legislative Division of Post Audit to conduct an audit that attempts to determine the costs of illegal immigration in Kansas. The report is expected to be completed during the next legislative session, which starts in January.

The audit will try to determine the costs to the state of Kansas for benefits and services provided to illegal immigrants, the estimated tax revenues from illegal immigrants, and whether the taxes they pay offset the costs of benefits provided.

And finally, the audit will study the effect that illegal immigration has on labor costs and the job market in Kansas.

Jonathan Blazer, a public benefits policy attorney with the National Immigration Law Center, said contrary to popular opinion, many studies had shown that undocumented workers had a positive effect on the economy.

"There is still this myth that is fueling this debate that immigrants are a drain as opposed to an asset," Blazer said.

He said undocumented workers pay more in taxes into the economy than they derive in benefits.

Some studies, he said, show that they may depress wages in certain labor markets. But, he said, the solution to that is to provide them a way to attain citizenship so that they are not exploited by unscrupulous employers.

He said it was important for states to tread cautiously when trying to enact immigration laws.

In Oklahoma, for example, an anti-illegal immigration law that took effect last year will cause $1.8 billion in economic losses, according to a study done by the Oklahoma Bankers Association.

The losses will be incurred because of thousands of workers leaving the state, the study said.

Legislation in Kansas failed after intense lobbying from business groups that said the proposals would have placed too much responsibility on businesses to determine whether employees were illegal immigrants. They fought sanctions against employers hiring illegal immigrants and a requirement that employers use the federal E-Verify database to check the status of workers being hired.

But Dillmore said the business associations simply wanted to avoid responsibility.

"Their attitude was, this is not their problem," he said.

Comments

geekin_topekan 6 years, 5 months ago

Get them lazy a$$ed white boys out into the fields!Be the solution instead of the problem.If all the lettuce picking and burger flippin is sewn up they will quit coming."What part of illegal don't they understand?" and "Build the border fence!"Now,who believes it isn't their responsibility?Business owners?Dont make me laugh.

Frank Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm delighted that Nile Dilmore has taken the lead on this. He's a clear thinker and a hard worker.Hopefully, Melvin Neufeld and his fellow members of the Flat Earth Society will be preoccupied in new losing battles over Holcomb, and we'll see some intelligent legislation while they're distracted.

Chris Beilman 6 years, 5 months ago

So how much will this "Audit" cost us up front before we have any results?

jaywalker 6 years, 5 months ago

"There is still this myth that is fueling this debate that immigrants are a drain as opposed to an asset," That's a brilliant statement. Immigrants aren't a drain. Illegal ALIENS are!!! Illegals are the base cause for the home construction industry collapse, currently our biggest economic issue. Ask anyone involved in that industry, from loggers to window manufacturers, from realtors to people trying to sell their home, how much of a 'drain' illegals are.

WilburM 6 years, 5 months ago

What exactly did AZ "do'? Given that AZ runs on the work of immigrants (legal and not), a "cost-benefit" analysis there would be most useful. Let's not allow facts to get in the way of our precious, preconceived notions.

KsTwister 6 years, 5 months ago

"There is still this myth that is fueling this debate that immigrants are a drain as opposed to an asset," Blazer said.Can't wait until they find out what Arizona did. Some myth.

Shardwurm 6 years, 5 months ago

Go Katie Sebelius!Illegal Aliens get in-state tuition now too!

geekin_topekan 6 years, 5 months ago

Children of illegal aliens, who graduated from a Kansas high school and are actively seeking resident status are allowed in-state tuition.Big difference.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"Get them lazy a$$ed white boys out into the fields!"What a racist statment.This post should be deleted. It is offensive and degrading to white people.

scott3460 6 years, 5 months ago

Rid the country of the illegals and there are more jobs and opportunities for native born citizens. That is a good thing. Why is that so hard for the politicians to understand?

bd 6 years, 5 months ago

The problem is that we have created a welfare society , if we force all of the able bodied welfare people to work, there would be hardly any jobs for the illegals!

Godot 6 years, 5 months ago

This sets quite a precedence; a governor decides whether or not to enforce Federal law based on the economic impact it might have on the state.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

I can't comment, the LJWORLD will delete my post.Sorry, I would like to comment and dialouge with you, but my opinions are deemed deletable by the LJWorld staff.

jaywalker 6 years, 5 months ago

bd, While I agree with you to an extent there is still the problem of actually getting those 'able-bodied' to show up for work, much less work. I've been involved with home construction for a long time and had friends that were in the industry before I was. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to a builder who struggled to get a crew of 5 white/black men to show up five days a week. In fact, one friend of mine's boss actually tried to give out moderate bonuses to the men if they had 'perfect attendance' for a month and he gave out 4 bonuses after an entire year! That's why the builders went ballistic when illegals flooded the industry. In many areas the city would have to institute curfews for when construction could start and end, usually 7am to 7pm, because hispanic crews would work past midnight laying concrete, throwing up trusses, etc. Until they passed that law in the Atlanta area it was not uncommon to see a crew working by the headlights of their trucks and vans. We used to have that sort of work ethic in this country, not any more.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 5 months ago

For the reasons I just suggested numbknuts.If our American labor force saw a future in picking lettuce and flippin burgers they would have been jumping at every opportunity available.And there may be,I dont know.But instead of excusing yourselves from any responsibilty toward your country and the economy by leaving it to lawmakers and complaining on line.Take action.That is a-c-t-i-o-n,not complain and do nothing.Now hit them bricks.I know DeSoto McD is hiring.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"Jesse Helms was against the Civil Rights movement, and believed the old 1896 Plessy vs. Ferguson "separate but equal" doctrine was just fine. So yes, Jesse loved black people, just as long as they stayed at the back of the bus."You know who else believes that Blacks should be seperatedly educated in 2008?Jeremiah Wright at the Press club.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

This is the last emails I received from "beobachter", remember the following is what this loser sent me:"hey, a***. want to name call and swap ideas and insults, try ksobserver@yahoo.com. That is assuming you aren't as big as idiot as I think?"And:"Sure that FTC gives a damn whether or not I call you a racist and an a*. the fact you lack the balls to defend your ideas without begging for help tells me all I need to know. Talk to Marion about how I called him on his BS threats that that sound very much like yours. Fact is you are a racist a***. End of story.want to discuss this, easyksobserver@yahoo.comyou're as gutless as all conservatives are"This is the threats that Beo sends out as emails.I will forward these to the ljworld. and have already forwarded them the the harrassment department.

scott3460 6 years, 5 months ago

Geek:I did not complain, all I did was ask a simple rhetorical question. Anyway, one doesn't have to work a menial job in order to effectively fight against illegal immigration. I contribute plenty to the effort, believe me. Anyway, I like my day job just fine. It pays quite a bit better than picking lettuce and the working conditions are more to my liking. Vast majorities of Americans have been screaming at the pols to rid the country of the illegal hordes, but so far the national politicians are either a. in bed with the business interests that love an overabundance of labor, especially illegal labor they can exploit, or b. enamored of the potential votes that allowing illegals to continue to pollute the countryside gets them. Local pressure is where it is at & that is where the efforts should be directed. I am in favor of and support just about as strict and as punitive measures as you can dream up.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

You do realize that emailed harassment calling someone a "racist" and other things is "hate speech" and the internet and the phone are both governed by the Federal Government?You do know that don't you?You do know that threatening or hate speech in "documentation form" is pretty damning evidence, and it is a lower grade felony?You do know that right?

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

You pro illegal alien "deniers" are really gonna hurl when this report comes back and shows just how much it costs. The study in Oklahoma is biased. There is no way a population of 25,000 low skilled workers of houskeepers, landscapers, day laborers, and fast food attendants had a $1.5 billion dollar effect on the economy. If that is true, then the $1.5 billion for the 25,000 that left means that they earned $60,000 for *every man woman and child that left. That is the equivalent of $240,000 per household of 4, and there is no way you can make that at minimum wage. SO that study is baised!! There is no way these people had a net effect of $60,000, and if they did where is that tax money?And if they did make that kind of money in Oklahoma, don't you think that the citizens of Oklahoma (or Kansas for that matter) deserve $240,000 for a household of 4?? Where are all you "living wage" people???????Do the math people, stop just accepting these bogus "studies" ad "fact"You have a brain, use it. If the study came from an Immgration rights group, it is probably suspect!!!!!!

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

geekintopekan said:"For the reasons I just suggested numbknuts"I think this post should be deleted. numbknutz is another world for "idiot"LJWorld moderator numbknutz should wake the heck up. We can't have language like that.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Becasue I had a family member killed by a drunk illelgal alien, with 6 warrents, and 2 deporetation orders.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Clear enough idiot? You unfeeling putz! I guess it is OK to "feel" for the illegal aliens, but a legal citizen that was killed and their family, well it is clear you don't "feel" for them.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh, and BTW, that is not a "racist" stance, it has nothing to do with race. Just because you assigne it in your little mind, does not make it so.It is a matter of "legality" and those people coming here illegally and killing our people need to go.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

So it is fine for all the people to call me a racist bigot.IS that the case Mods?It is OK to verbally abuse "conservatives" on the LJWorld blogs?Is that your "policy"?

jaywalker 6 years, 5 months ago

max1 (Anonymous) says: "illegals are the base cause for the home construction industry collapse" -jaywalker"That's a stretch!Cheap labor gave homebuilders larger profit margins, so please explain how that brought the construction industry down"You almost answered your own question right there, Max. And there's no doubt home builders greed has a lot to do with it, though builders reaping larger profits has nothing to do with the industry collapse. The collapse is due to over-build. Without the millions of illegals that poured across the borders specifically for those jobs in the housing industry this country would not be grossly over-built right now, the 'bubble' would never have burst let alone get so inflated, mortgage companies wouldn't have been handing out loans to so many that couldn't afford them, etc. etc.Believe me, I've been in the industry for more than ten years now. I luckily saw the writing on the wall 4 years ago and diversified my repair biz in order to withstand the inevitable collapse. Unfortunately it's even worse than I imagined, and that coupled with rising fuel costs has me looking to switch careers (mobile work force). I'm all for anyone who wants to come here to do so, but it has to be done legally. I've worked with and around these men for years. They often live 10 to an apartment and send more than half of their money back home, don't pay taxes, and don't assimilate into society for fear of being discovered and deported.The bottom line is they're the base cause of this collapse because our 'leaders' didn't stop the flood. If builders had to rely on tax paying citizens to work the industry this never would have happened. I don't blame the illegals for wanting and working the jobs, heck, they work harder than most Americans. But we're up crapola creek without a paddle and the home industry is far reaching, so many millions wrapped up in it and scrambling to keep up.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

beobachter,You send me another harassing email I will forward it to the FTC for "any harassing email" sent. It is illegal, and a reason why people like you want to "talk the talk" of a liberal, but you are a harassing, bully, and not a very nice person.If you want to say stuff like that, have the "sand" to say it here.This is so far off the "Bush derangement syndrome" that I have ever seen.Do you really think you are "all that"?Do not send me another email like that you punk, elsewise I will get legally "down your throat".Got it!Mods get it toghther! What kind of a board are you running here??

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

The harassment of the internet service provider at the top of all the emails sent out. And also to your yahoo email account.I think everyone in Laqwrence knows what kind of person you are now. you are a "Keyboard tough guy"! ROTFLMAO!

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Geex Max, could you take the Wichita Housing Market strory more out of context?here is the story folks:http://www.kansas.com/business/retail/story/448068.htmland the Title is "Local Housing Sales Soften", and Maxy make it sound like it is expanding."Wichita home sales remained soft in April as buyers and sellers wary of economic setbacks stayed out of the market, analysts said Friday.Residential sales fell to four-year April lows at 903 but were up 23 from March.Meanwhile, new residential listings were up almost 200 from March at 1,479, but again at four-year lows..""It appears that buyers and sellers are staying out of the market," said Stan Longhofer, director of Wichita State University's Center for Real Estate."and your "hispanictips site is no longer active since 2006, and very much is a ""2006"" story, and not relevant in 2008 where 80% of the population is sick of illegal immigration.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"Sure that FTC gives a damn whether or not I call you a racist and an a*. the fact you lack the balls to defend your ideas without begging for help tells me all I need to know. Talk to Marion about how I called him on his BS threats that that sound very much like yours. Fact is you are a racist a**. End of story.want to discuss this, easyksobserver@yahoo.comyou're as gutless as all conservatives are"

jaywalker 6 years, 5 months ago

Max:If homebuilders were so stupid that they built beyond demand, then that is their own fault, but that wasn't the case - there was a constant demand because mortgage lenders were giving .....All due respect, Max, but the over build is exactly what's happened. I've read about population booms and boons for certain industries in Kansas due to illegals. If the housing market is still active there it is a very isolated occurence. Around the majority of the country noone's building. Atlanta has more than 100,000 new homes for sale, most of them sitting for more than a year now. Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa - new homes sitting in unfinished subdivisions everywhere, nothing new being built for more than a year. It's like that everywhere. That IS over build. And you put the cart before the horse. People shop for a house they like and THEN go get a loan, not the other way around. The mortgage companies are guilty in the foreclosure crisis we're going through, but their role in the housing collapse is more indirect. One more time, you couldn't have built these thousands upon thousands of homes unless you had an endless supply of illegals flooding the job force. Without the workers, the homes don't get built, the market isn't glutted, there's no collapse........

kansasman678 6 years, 5 months ago

Every American business owner cry s about how bad they need cheap labor lets not for get the South before they became part of America the had slaves that worked for FREE !!!!!! American business are looked at as criminals in most of the world from sweat shops to forced labor of small children of India and china !! SAVE AMERICA BY BUYING FOREIGN NON US PRODUCTS its SAD to see pro illegal supporters justify breaking American laws and using the Race card every chance they get yet they are too Stupid to understand that being in ANY COUNTRY ILLEGALLY IS A CRIME !!! Lets blame all white people For The failures of all of South America and Mexico ..They Demand Chang not in there Country's but in America its far easer to call everyone a racist then to stop Drug Dealing Government Officials in there own Country's

skfamily1 6 years ago

What a typical stupid democrat comment. What part of 'ILLEGAL' don't they understand? Who cares what the $$$ effect is, or even if it is positive....THEY DON'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!! I know several people that work for the KS Dept. of Revenue and they tell me illegals don't pay withholding tax nor file KS returns. The rest of use are footing the bill. Consider schools, medical costs, social programs......drain...drain...drain. And on top of it they send their checks to Latin America and the trend snowballs!

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