Advertisement

Letters to the Editor

Verifiable ballots

January 22, 2008

Advertisement

To the editor:

I can't believe that despite the incontrovertible evidence that electronic voting machines are not trustworthy, the United States is still using them. Where is the learning curve? As long as so many Americans must cast their votes on hackable electronic machines with no verifiable ballots, we can never be sure who has won any election. We need hand-counted paper ballots to ensure an auditable trail.

Tina Blue,

Lawrence

Comments

bearded_gnome 6 years, 3 months ago

the lte writer implies in her letter that paper ballots are some kind of eutopian voting perfection. nothing could be further from the truth. different forms of paper ballot have different typical hand-counting error rates. paper ballots machine counted, as is the case in dg co, can be hand recounted if necessary, but the machine counting has less error than does the hand counting typically.

acorn is also trying to get fellons the right to vote. this by itself makes acorn a far-left fringie organization.

it is worth noting that in 2004 and 2006 wisconsin voted blue, but generally not by large margins. there was democrat activist thuggary (slashing tires) for example, and voter intimidation. indeed as pointed out above, vote fraud overwhelmingly benefits democrats. in one newspaper's study of the 2000 florida election, they found that two to four hundred fellons had voted. overwhelmingly fellons voting fraudulantly vote for the demorats.

it is correct that we need to have a form of voting that makes a paper receipt, marks a checkable paper ballot, etc. not just a set of 1's and 0's in RAM memory that gets transferred to flash memory.
I should also note it was the demorats in florida 2000 that had lawyers in every county of FL fighting to suppress overseas military ballots from service personnel. yes, they tried their best to disenfranchise the men and women in uniform.

ID's make a lot of sense. so, dramaticly increase identity fraud punishments these days with the rise in identity fraud caused by illegal immigrants.

0

KsTwister 6 years, 3 months ago

Only idiots would believe electronic devices to be infallible or easily tampered with. If not then why would most have installed spyware and surge protectors?? I am beginning to believe the intelligence level of the population has declined.

0

BigDog 6 years, 3 months ago

I am not saying that ACORN is the only group who has been involved in situations like those I've mentioned. There have been groups that lean Republican that even though as not widespread, have been involved in voter registration fraud also.

This is a concern also if you want elections cleaned up.

0

Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

I think a more important question (going back to the whole "paper vs. e-vote" topic) is whether the margin of discrepancy is lower using electronic voting machines or paper ballots with all their issues.

0

Tom Shewmon 6 years, 3 months ago

Thanks BigDog, I've presented the facts on that no less than 3-4 times and am called a liar when I make a comment like above, earlier. When do many on this forum who oppose me deny facts? Alot. Why bother.

Sure, it doesn't indict every single ACORN station, but several precincts were involved.

0

logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

Silly, huh? At least I had an argument that amounted to more than calling something "silly". If you are prohibited from voting unless you pay a fee, it is a voting tax. It's really very simple.

Furthermore, the U.S. Appeals court doesn't think my argument is very silly:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702171.html

Oh, but I'm sure my source is just some liberal rag....

And by the way, before you attempt the extremely overused technique of discrediting my argument by a "clever" wordplay with my moniker, you may want to ensure that my argument is without logic.

As far as the loud opponents go...I would imagine that there were a number of non-blacks who loudly opposed slavery. Does the fact that they weren't black make their opposition any less valid? And before you go crying that voter ID cards and slavery aren't the same--I agree. What IS the same is the fact that you don't have to be personally invested in an issue to have a valid point about it.

0

BigDog 6 years, 3 months ago

americorps (Anonymous) says:

whitethinker, ACORN never has advocated illegal voting, just making it as easy as possible on the low income and minority voter who have traditionally had more difficulty in gaining equal access to the process.

You are against that.

Your motive is clear and that is why you make false claims in the past about acorn.


Well with a little research on the internet you will see that ACORN has been accused of and prosecuted for voter registration fraud in cases across the country including Ohio in 2004 and Missouri in 2006.
http://www.kmbc.com/politics/10214492/detail.html

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009189

Situations like these all over the country is why many believe identification should be required in the process.

0

Bowhunter99 6 years, 3 months ago

ilogicsound's argument that the cost of an ID is considered 'taxing' voters is about the silliest argument you can come up with....

I'd like to know how many of the loud opponents of this do not have an ID. My guess is that they all do. They just like to argue.

0

Left_handed 6 years, 3 months ago

Here's some verifiable innuendo. Richard Nixon lost the presidential election by the skin of his teeth in 1960. There was credible evidence of Democrat shenanigans (read: voter fraud) in Illinois, yet Nixon chose not to do a "Whiningalgore" because he thought challenging the results would divide the country.

Here's some more unverifiable innuendo-- Democrats are much bigger on election fraud than the Republicans ever thought of being. I don't know why liberals are so afraid and opposed to cleaning up their processes.

DPP can't be all that stupid, after all he's not a liberal.

0

staff04 6 years, 3 months ago

Mmmm...unverifiable innuendo...just in time for lunch.

DPP, why are conservatives so afraid and opposed to cleaning up the process then?

I'm not real big on namecalling, but your stupidity really astonishes me.

0

Mkh 6 years, 3 months ago

Please excuse the massive cut and paste, but this is important stuff here:

"Huge disparities between votes cast on Diebold electronic voting machines and actual hand counted tallies are emerging during the New Hampshire recount, with Hillary Clinton gaining the most from over a hundred unaccounted for votes in one Manchester Ward.

The recount in Manchester's Ward 5 revealed a disparity whereby establishment candidates received over a hundred 'black hole' votes between them that could not be tallied during the hand count.

                Diebold Result  Hand Count

CLINTON 683 619

EDWARDS 255 217

OBAMA 404 365

At the moment there is no indication of where these extra votes came from, but the figures again cast the accuracy of Diebold voting machines into severe doubt and provide further evidence of the need for a return to hand counted paper ballots only in all federal elections.

Brad Friedman at The Brad Blog continues to provide great coverage of the recount, unlike New Hampshire's foremost news outlet WMUR, whose "only source seems to be whatever (New Hampshire Secretary of State) Gardner tells them," according to Friedman.

In addition, 550 ballots in Stratham were not read by the Diebold machines at all and were rejected as blank ballots.

Voting Rights attorney John Bonifaz also told Friedman of his deep concerns about the transparency of both the initial election as well as the recount.

"I'm very concerned that this is not a fully transparent process that is happening there," he said.

Diebold memory cards used in New Hampshire, which have been proven to be vulnerable to hacking and could easily be used to steal an election, are "missing" according to state officials.

Bonifaz, "Says he was told by Secretary of State William Gardner that his office doesn't get involved in tracking what happens to those memory cards. Some have reportedly been returned to LHS, and may have had their memory erased already," reports Friedman .

"When you have a private company counting 80% of the votes, and you later learn that the memory cards are unaccounted for, you have a serious question about the transparency and accountability in that process," Bonifaz said.

Federal law mandates that all materials from elections be preserved for 22 months thereafter, so if the memory cards have been wiped then LHS Associates, who it was revealed last week had hired a narcotics trafficker to a high-level executive position , would be facing criminal charges.

In another shocking development, vote fraud expert Bev Harris witnessed first hand that a majority of ballot boxes had 8 inch slits in their side. Election Defense Alliance's Sally Castleman followed the boxes back to the ballot vault and also noticed the cuts. Read Bev's report here ." http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/vote_fraud_nh_08_huge_diebold_disparities_uncovered.htm

0

Dollypawpaw 6 years, 3 months ago

Lilberals would be shocked to see how much more they would lose elections by if the counting process was cleaned up.

0

americorps 6 years, 3 months ago

whitethinker, ACORN never has advocated illegal voting, just making it as easy as possible on the low income and minority voter who have traditionally had more difficulty in gaining equal access to the process.

You are against that.

Your motive is clear and that is why you make false claims in the past about acorn.

0

logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

The only reason I say "to anyone who requested it" to avoid the step of having to fact check anyone who requested a voter ID card. Perhaps that would be a less pressing issue than the potential for people to abuse the system...

0

blessed3x 6 years, 3 months ago

logicsound,

I very rarely agree with you, but in this case we are on the same page. D@mn! That's scary.

The only flaw I see in your idea is "If the state provided a photo ID card to anyone who requested it, free of charge..." I think free ID's should be limited to those that do not possess an otherwise valid form of ID. Otherwise, groups that opposed the ID's in general would simply request ID's in huge numbers, overwhelming the system and costing the taxpayers billions of dollars as a form of protest. If you have a DL, you're good to go, otherwise we'll get you an ID. I think that is reasonable.

0

logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, and I have said as much in the past.

I should point out, however, that most of the ID verification proponents I've talked to would not find your suggestion of using the free registration card as ID, since it does not have a picture.

If the state provided a photo ID card to anyone who requested it, free of charge, I would have no problem requiring a photo ID to vote.

0

blessed3x 6 years, 3 months ago

logicsound

So you would be okay if the free voter registration card you recieve in the mail after you register was considered vaild ID for voting?

Besides, most of the ID proposals I read about were no cost to the voter. If the ID costs money, I will agree with you, but the vast majority of Americans have some form of valid ID (DL, military ID, etc...) already. If a "voter ID card" for those people without some form of current ID was indeed free, would you support an ID requirement to vote?

0

logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

None of the things you listed (driving, open a bank account, hired to work, board a plane, loan a book) are rights.

Voting is a right.

I didn't say requiring IDs was illegal, I said requiring IDs is illegal if the state does not provide them. For more explanation--voting taxes are illegal, as the constitution prohibits any kind of test (other than citizenship) to vote. Since ID cards cost money, REQUIRING an ID to vote is illegal unless the ID is free.

0

Bowhunter99 6 years, 3 months ago

Requiring ID's is an Illegal solution?

How's is requiring ID illegal? It's required to drive, open a bank account, be hired to work, board a plane, loan a book from the public library, etc,etc,etc...

Folks.. They're not asking for Passports... That's a whole different story. We're asking for IDs so we know the person showing up is actually the person they say they are. Why is that such a hard concept to understand for the few aclu-the black helicopters are coming- crowd?

0

Tom Shewmon 6 years, 3 months ago

"We almost forgot, you do not think that minorities or the poor should vote."- americorpse

Wrong. I think minority/poor/inner city voting should be legal same as a white neighborhood.

Stop telling lies, americorpse. It's hurtful and it upsets me.

0

Mkh 6 years, 3 months ago

Great LTE. This issue is so important and really gets swept under the rug by the media and political groups in general. The sad truth is that any ability to have fair elections with proper oversight is completely gone with the current electronic voting systems.

Yes, there were serious issues in the 2000 election, "chads" are fricking dumb, but that doesn't mean all paper ballots are bad. It is the best system to verify to the Public the results of our vital election process.

In 2004, we saw massive abuse of the electronic voting machines, which recently led some individuals involved in election rigging in Ohio go to jail, finally. But then again there were serious issues in 2006. Recently we see election fraud issues in the New Hampshire primary due to Diebold voting machines. South Carolina had the same issues just the other day with again Diebold voting machines.

Wake up America! Diebold and the Government are stealing your rights to fair elections!

0

americorps 6 years, 3 months ago

right_thinker (Anonymous) says: I say put ACORN in charge of all the voting process.


We almost forgot, you do not think that minorities or the poor should vote.

0

logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

"that's until some Joe Blow decides to show up and vote for you before you get there. THEN all h*ll will break loose and you will demand to know how that happened and why you're not allowed to vote twice"


I would love it if someone could give me ONE actual instance of this happening to them.

Unless the state is going to provide voter IDs free of charge, requiring ID to vote is an illegal "solution" to a nonexistent problem.

=========================================

"Oh, yes:because the "verifiable ballots" were shown to make all the difference in Florida in 2000."


Admittedly, verifiable ballots will not do much good when the SCOTUS stops the verification process before it is complete....

0

SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 3 months ago

"As long as The United States continue to allow people to vote without proper Identification, all of the votes are technically not verifyable."

Truer words were never spoken.

0

Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh, yes...because the "verifiable ballots" were shown to make all the difference in Florida in 2000.

0

Tom Shewmon 6 years, 3 months ago

I say put ACORN in charge of all the voting process.

0

Bowhunter99 6 years, 3 months ago

As long as The United States continue to allow people to vote without proper Identification, all of the votes are technically not verifyable.

Get proper ID folks... it's not that hard. Of course you think your rights are 'violated'... that's until some Joe Blow decides to show up and vote for you before you get there... THEN all h*ll will break loose and you will demand to know how that happened and why you're not allowed to vote twice....

0

Paul R Getto 6 years, 3 months ago

The new machines are for the benefit of the media, who like to call the "horserace" as soon as they can on election day. Use paper ballots, count them by hand if necessary to confirm the machine count, and get the vote right.

0

Commenting has been disabled for this item.