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Archive for Tuesday, January 22, 2008

Bar owners want outside drinking OK’d

City commissioners in November agreed to allow the downtown drinking establishment The Bourgeois Pig, 6 E. Ninth St., to keep its sidewalk dining license, even though the coffee shop/bar doesn't meet the city's requirement that says businesses with sidewalk seating areas make at least 70 percent of their sales from food. Other bar owners at tonight's City Commission meeting will be asking commissioners to allow bars to have the same sort of sidewalk seating areas that restaurants currently enjoy.

City commissioners in November agreed to allow the downtown drinking establishment The Bourgeois Pig, 6 E. Ninth St., to keep its sidewalk dining license, even though the coffee shop/bar doesn't meet the city's requirement that says businesses with sidewalk seating areas make at least 70 percent of their sales from food. Other bar owners at tonight's City Commission meeting will be asking commissioners to allow bars to have the same sort of sidewalk seating areas that restaurants currently enjoy.

January 22, 2008

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: Sidewalk dining plan under debate

Downtown Lawrence bar owners are toasting the idea of expanded sidewalk dining, but not everyone is ready to raise their glass to the idea. Enlarge video

Map of sidewalk dining in downtown Lawrence

Map of sidewalk dining in downtown Lawrence

To downtown bar owners, it sure looks like an open door.

City commissioners in November agreed to allow the downtown drinking establishment The Bourgeois Pig, 6 E. Ninth St., to keep its sidewalk dining license, even though the coffee shop/bar doesn't meet the city's requirement that says businesses with sidewalk seating areas make at least 70 percent of their sales from food.

Now, bar owners are saying what's good for the Pig is good for their pubs.

Downtown bar owners at tonight's City Commission meeting will be asking commissioners to allow bars to have the same sort of sidewalk seating areas that restaurants currently enjoy.

"The people are already out there on the sidewalk smoking their cigarettes," said Jerry Neverve, owner of the Red Lyon Tavern, 944 Mass., who has been lobbying for the sidewalk bar areas since the city enacted an indoor smoking ban more than three years ago. "It would be much better if we could lease the space from the city and control it a little better."

City commissioners, though, haven't exactly taken to the idea like a cool margarita on a warm day. Commissioners have entertained the idea of expanding sidewalk seating areas since 2005. But the recently discovered Bourgeois Pig situation - where city staff members in the 1990s mistakenly gave the Pig a permit even though it did not qualify for one - has put more pressure on the commission to consider the idea again.

Mayor Sue Hack said she might be willing to drop the food sales requirement for sidewalk areas if the city were to add a few new regulatory steps. She likes the idea Madison, Wis. - home to the University of Wisconsin - has adopted that requires all sidewalk licenses to go through a special advisory board that includes members of the hospitality industry and law enforcement.

"I'm very intrigued by what Madison, Wisconsin, does," Hack said. "I think that sounds like it could be a good compromise."

Madison also has a staff member who does periodic checks of the sidewalk drinking areas throughout the year. Hack said she didn't want to add a new city position, but did want to consider ways to ensure that the areas were working the way the city envisioned.

City Commissioner Rob Chestnut said he first wants to hear from Lawrence Police Department leaders on what they believe could happen if the city began allowing bars to have the sidewalk areas. He said having open-air areas that primarily are for drinking rather than dining could create the potential for negative interactions between bar patrons and passers-by.

"I don't know exactly what the right formula is, but I would be looking for something that still has some restrictions," Chestnut said. "First and foremost needs to be the safety issue."

He said that may mean regulations that would force the sidewalk dining areas to close at 11 p.m., would require that patrons be seated at a table, and that glass bottles be banned in the outdoor area.

Neverve said he was confident that bars could operate sidewalk areas that would not create problems. And, he said if a problem were to arise, the city always would have the ability to revoke the business' sidewalk license.

"But I don't think it will be a problem," Neverve said. "We have expectations of behavior here. If they don't meet them, they are no longer welcome, and it would be the same thing on the sidewalk area."

Downtown merchants seemed split on the idea.

Jane Pennington, director of Downtown Lawrence Inc., didn't think the organization's members had a clear consensus, other than they expected any business with a sidewalk area to conduct the operations in a responsible manner.

Bob Schumm, who owns Buffalo Bob's Smokehouse, 719 Mass., and introduced the sidewalk dining concept to the city when he owned Mass. Street Deli, 941 Mass., said there would be some risk in changing the system.

"It has worked well the way it is," Schumm said. "And I guess what I would say is that bar crowds can be different than restaurant crowds."

Commissioners meet at 6:35 p.m. tonight at City Hall, Sixth and Massachusetts streets.

Comments

DirtyLinen 6 years, 3 months ago

vinividivici (Anonymous) says:

"Here's some vini logic..."

I understand what you're saying and I'm not saying it's a bad idea in theory ... but I think you're treading pretty dangerous ground when licenses of any kind are granted or withheld according to someone's ... anyone's ... approval of "the patrons they attract."

What's out? Patron's that are "younger?" (Younger than who?) How about patrons that look like trouble ... will there be a dress code or maximum hair length? I suppose we could predict behavior depending on what socio-economic class the patrons belong to. And we definitely don't want patrons who might be the "hip-hop" crowd.

See the problem here?

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vinividivici 6 years, 3 months ago

Here's some vini logic. The Pig, Henrys, Freestate, and Teller's (where I have happily sipped a Bloody Mary on the patio for many a Sunday brunch) do NOT attract a primarily student crowd. They also tend to very tame. I frequent all of them and have rarely seen any issues arise. Any that did were immediately addressed. There are also a few places downtown, like Ingredient and the new Encore I just noticed the other day, that serve liquor amongst other things that most likely could be included with the before stated group.

It would be ideal if we could look at the demographics of specific establishment and make a decision based on the patrons they attract. If a bar is denied the privilege, make them get a petition or the backing of other establishments who have the privilege to have a "trial run" for 3 months. They mess up, their ineligible to reapply for the privilege for 5 years. This could also encourage some bars and restaurants to improve their atmosphere to attract a more responsible crowd.

Granting this privilege and charging rent seems like a great way to bring a little extra cash to the city. This should be about trial and error, seeing what works for our specific city, as opposed to shooting it down from the start.

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 3 months ago

monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says:

"Since the sidewalks belong to me and all other tax paying citizens of Lawrence, we are the ones who should decide if we want to share our sidewalks with private businesses and their patrons."

You might want to double-check that. I don't know how it works in Lawrence, but in many places, the city and/or its citizens do not own the sidewalks. There is usually a right-of-way allowing the city use of a certain number of feet from the center of a thoroughfare to be used for a road and/or sidewalk, but the abutting property owner still owns the land.

There was a story I read a while back, I think it was in Cleveland, where a property owner was very surprised to learn he owned a sidewalk, which he found out about when he got a bill for its repairs. I know that where I live, the city doesn't shovel the sidewalks, that's my responsibility (or my landlord's), and I live in what serves as "downtown" ... I assume I'd be one of those sued if someone slips because I didn't.

There is also the question of whether the sidewalks, if they are owned by the city, are owned by the political body that the city exists as, or if they're owned collectively by the citizenry. This may seem like the same thing, but it isn't ... the difference goes to the heart of whether the city can regulate them at all, or whether the citizens can use them ... any of them ... as they wish (e.g., whether or not a city can regulate, control, or prohibit street vendors or performers).

Like I said, it varies from place to place, and I don't know about Lawrence, but it is entirely possible that the people who own the land the restaurants occupy also own the sidewalks in front of them. Any local attorney's present?

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Shardwurm 6 years, 3 months ago

Outside drinking Dec - Feb only!

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hawkperchedatriverfront 6 years, 3 months ago

beobachter has the right idea, but then we have a city commission that chose to rent for cheap the upper level of the parking garage, when they could have moved the city vehicles in the garage to the top and gotten more money from the preferred covered spaces.

Brain gone.

And yes to workin2hard, the employees of the city, KU, school district have moved away from Lawrence. They have taken their cozy incomes from taxpayer funds and fled the crapped out city aka Lawrence, led by no one.

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beobachter 6 years, 3 months ago

Simple solution. Let anyone have sidewalk space, simply charge them a monthly fee of $200-$300 per square foot of sidewalk space used. They could simply raise their prices to cover it.

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Lynn731 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh good, another special advisory board! Just how many advisory boards are there in Lawrence? Thank you, Lynn

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Meatwad 6 years, 3 months ago

Sidewalk seating is GREAT and would boost our downtown. Many bars and restaurants already have it. Also, there already are people outside, this would just give them a place to sit. It would be wonderful to have some seating outside of the Red Lion. If it gets out of control at some bars, just yank their outdoor seating license.

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ToriFreak13 6 years, 3 months ago

leased out sidewalks?? so the city would get the m.i.p. no? break out the tazers!

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workin2hard 6 years, 3 months ago

The same people on here over and over griping and moaning over downtown the city councel , KU whatever gets under their skin about Lawrence. Why don't you people move to Perry or some other small town that does not have these issues for you to complain about.

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monkeyhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Since the sidewalks belong to me and all other tax paying citizens of Lawrence, we are the ones who should decide if we want to share our sidewalks with private businesses and their patrons.

My answer would have to be no if it costs the taxpayers one more cent. We have already paid for their improvements and their fire sprinklers. They all should pay market price per square foot for acquiring that pricey commercial property that belongs to someone else. Wouldn't the taking of our property be considered eminent domain?

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

snap is an internet user in the style and vein of such as "Observer", "ObservAr", "Beobachter", "Fairylight", Fairylightdeaux", "Fairlylightducks", OMB and others of that ilk (Whatever an "ilk" may be, although ilk seem to congregate in herds!) who are much more interested in personal attacks than discussing the issues.

They are also of such a mind (And I use the term "mind" very loosely!) that if you tell them that on a clear July day at noon the sky is blue, they will insist that the sky is cloudy, green or red.

They are neurotic at best; dangerously sociopathic at worst and are to be avoided at all costs.

Such miscreants are excellent reasons that the LJW should accelerate its ongoing program of verification for forum members, as like the mythical vampire of legend, such persons cannot stand the light of day.

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kawryan 6 years, 3 months ago

We should do all of sinning outside, it makes us easier to judge.

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Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

snap writes:

I'd

saved

that

nugget

as

a

particularly

fine

example

of

Nick's

ranting.

BTW, still having a wonderful internet life.

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 3 months ago

You have to go back and get old Marion quotes to remind him that his memory.............. is really not the most accurate.

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blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

Hawk: I agree about the sidewalk cleaning issue, you talk about a "Catch 22". Never mind what happens to this mess when it rains; don't think the City anticipates collecting contaminated rain water. By the way, I am an environmentalist, but not a tight-arsed one.

About 2 years ago (or so) the City conducted a sidewalk cleaning demo; if I'm not mistaken they hired a cleaning contractor for the trial. If I remember correctly, the test worked well, no dirty water released. Following that, it was my understanding the City was either going to hire this service done periodically or purchased the equipment for Staff. Never heard any more about it.

Friends and family in from California and Colorado last summer: proudly conducted a evening walk of our downtown. Within 2 blocks, 900 & 1000 of Mass, two guests independently asked me why the city does not "clean the sidewalks". Paper wastes, cigarette butts, spilled food and years of "stuck gum" left me little response. Can only refer to my earlier blog as to what will happen if Lawrence does not put some stipulations to the sidewalk drinking issue.

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Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

You beat me to it, kneejerkreaction.

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Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

kneejerkreaction, I suspect snap_pop_no_crackle merely used the LJW discussion board archives to find Marion's quote.

Then again, I was called out earlier today for guessing as to another person's motivation, so....

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hawkperchedatriverfront 6 years, 3 months ago

blind rabbit, how would you expect the sidewalks to be cleaned. the city has banned hosing of the sidewalks. the water may contaminate the river. the only hosing going on in this town is the hosing of the taxpayers. and as for cleaning walks, I am still waiting on two lawyers to clean their walks not to mention the university, the city staff won't touch the complaint.

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kneejerkreaction 6 years, 3 months ago

ahhhh, maybe not "saves" but goes back and finds them from June of last year.

Still weird.

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kneejerkreaction 6 years, 3 months ago

Am I reading two posts back that someone saves someone else's posts from June of last year?

That's just weird.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Snap, did you not take your ADD meds today?

Thre thread is about "Sidewalk Dining"!

English, snap!

Do you speak it?

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Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

snap writes:

here's another quote:

"5 June 2007 at 12:13 a.m. Marion (Marion Lynn) says... Oh yare not only getting ready to help with the sales of my book but to bring down Spamhaus and Spam-Court; both of which have malingned me with out proof but with malice aforethought."

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh, WIl, I did use the Johnson quote originally so you got a pretty good memory!

I just switched over to Sherman's because it is more to the point!

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Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

And with that, we return you to our regularly scheduled postings. Back to the topic at hand: what is the city to do about bars & outdoor seating?

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 3 months ago

I didn't realize either Sherman or LBJ was running for city council in Lawrence ... hmmm, who to vote for ...

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Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

You're correct, Marion; I misattributed the quote. Johnson said "I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party...."

Mea culpa.

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kneejerkreaction 6 years, 3 months ago

This will go the way of concealed carry, no smoking indoors and other big issues that turn out to be nothing.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

"If nominated, I will not accept; if drafted, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve."

William Tecumseh Sherman

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hilary 6 years, 3 months ago

hmmm....last time I checked, there were cigarette butts on the street, urinating between cars, and public drunkenness already. Don't understand how this would change that, and I don't think it would worsen. Most bars already have a back porch. I can't imagine they will also build a front one, when there's so little room for expansion.

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Wilbur_Nether 6 years, 3 months ago

monkeyhawk wrote: "Marion's predictions have come true. Maybe the city should hire him."

I tried to convince Marion to throw his hat in the ring after the Commission eighty-sixed Wildgen. He made some obscure reference to President Lyndon B. Johnson, and as far as I know he never sent in his resume.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Griffin:

Yeah, so what are you doing to profit from the drop in the market?

Fortunes are being made as we read and type.

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kneejerkreaction 6 years, 3 months ago

Let me see if I'm getting this issues straight.

Gay, drunk, young, student Bolshevics want to invade Lawrence and urinate between vehicles in front of our wide-eyed children.

Am I close?

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Defender 6 years, 3 months ago

Dollypawpaw, you're a real piece of crap. Period.

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blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

If this passes, the City should do something to require sidewalk cleanliness at these establishments. From what I've observed downtown, some of the sidewalk dining establishments do a good job of "policing" their areas, others do not. I'm fond of Jefferson's but if look at the sidewalk in front of that place it makes me wonder why I go back. Others leave dining plates, glasses and napkins on tables long after the customer has gone. All seem to suffer from spilled drink and food building-up in their areas, this due in-part to the City's ordance prohibiting washing down sidewalks without collecting the wash water. I wonder how some of these meet Public Health regulations.

I like the idea (for some places) but I suspect this will turn into a "can of worms" here; I, like many of K.U. football fans who attended the O.B. in Miami, visited South Beach; Lawrence should use this as an good example. I'm not sure the tourists that we are trying to attract are going to be interested in coming to Lawrence if what I suspect will happen happens.

Also, not to defend Free State, but their seating area is on their property and not on the City owned sidewalk. Additionally, I'm sure Chuck M. who takes pride in his operations makes sure that area is clean and not controversial; I'm not betting on some of the other potentials though.

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Griffin 6 years, 3 months ago

Folks! Stop the pointless bickering! Theres bigger problems to be arguing over right now. For example...the Stock Market.

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Left_handed 6 years, 3 months ago

Heck with it. We should just ban tobacco and alcohol (the drinking kind, that is) outright since they both represent a public health hazard. Then there would be no need for all this back and forth folderol over sidewalk bar licenses and whatnot.

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Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

Free State is at the end of Mass, not a lot of through traffic and its' outside area does not impinge on the public sidewalks. And FatTony, I lived in Southern California for two years, what is your point?????

There are over 40 liquor licenses on Mass Street downtown, or so I have been told. Do you want all 40 to push their drunks, who need their nicotine fix, out on the public sidewalks? Without the smoking ordinance their intoxicated patrons would remain inside and smoking. Please don't be surprised by the increased police calls and violence in Downtown Lawrence and the increase in the LPD budget.

Going to have to look into those new fangled Taser things the LPD wants.

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BigAl 6 years, 3 months ago

Dollypawpaw... Let me guess, you are one of those conservatives that somehow feel as if gays threaten you. Not very secure are you? Oh, and please show me one example of a liberal "forcing gay sex down our kids throats"....

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Erin Parmelee 6 years, 3 months ago

Dollypawpaw (Anonymous) says:

Yes, liberals force Gay sex down our kids throats. Whats the big deal about seeing an adult drinking?

Pun intended??

;)

I sense some latent issues here Dolly--always bringing up the gays, even when the topic has nothing to do with it. Do you need to talk?

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Dollypawpaw 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, liberals force Gay sex down our kids throats. Whats the big deal about seeing an adult drinking?

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 3 months ago

aquakej: "Henry's also has a sidewalk dining area"

huh? a sidewalk to where?

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 3 months ago

I think it's absolutely hysterical that people think outdoor drinking would be harmful to the kids or families. I guess they don't take their little ones to Worlds or Oceans of fun, both of which have an outdoor drinking area.

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aquakej 6 years, 3 months ago

Hmm, why has no one mentioned that Henry's also has a sidewalk dining area, and they certainly don't make 75% of their sales from food. And you're right; we can already drink outside at Free State. What is the big deal??

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Kansas: Just as stupid as you think it is and most of the "stupid" can be found in Bolshevia On The Plains; Lawrence, Kansas!

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Paul Geisler 6 years, 3 months ago

To all of you against this proposal please tell me this. How would this be any different than what is already happening on the porch at Free State Brewing Company? I regularly visit the porch during the warmer months; sometimes by myself, and other times with my wife and children. And I don't recall any of those crowds getting out of control and bothering side-walk shoppers! And Free State beer packs quite a punch compared to those watered down rice-beers served at most of those other bars!

But I'm not surprised by your reactions. After all, Kansas was the first state to adopt prohibition in their state constitution, and essentially the last to repeal it!

From Wikipedia - Prohibition: "Mississippi, which had made alcohol illegal in 1907, was the last state to repeal Prohibition, in 1966. Kansas did not allow sale of liquor "by the drink" (on-premises) until 1987. "

Also from Wikipedia + current state laws for alcohol: "Kansas's alcohol laws are among the strictest in the United States. Kansas prohibited all alcohol from 1881 to 1948, and continued to prohibit on-premises sales of alcohol from 1949 to 1987. Sunday sales only have been allowed since 2005. Today, 29 counties still do not permit the on-premises sale of alcohol. 59 counties require a business to receive at least 30% of revenue from food sales to allow on-premises sale of alcohol. Only 17 counties allow general on-premises sales. Not all communities which allow off-premises sales allow sales on Sunday. Sales are prohibited on Memorial Day, Labor Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. The only alcoholic beverage which grocery stores and gas stations may only sell is beer with no more than 3.2% alcohol by weight. Other liquor sales only are allowed at state-licensed retail liquor stores. Kansas has comprehensive open container laws for public places and vehicles, public intoxication laws, and requirements for prospective on-premises or off-premises licensees."

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Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

snap writes:

still having a wonderful internet life.

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bd 6 years, 3 months ago

cig butts everywhere, underage drinking, urinating between cars!

BAD IDEA!

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commonsense 6 years, 3 months ago

I loved drinking a pint in front of the Pig. Especially on a slow, mild Sunday or Monday evening. Never once had a problem or saw a problem. Even on the weekends, rarely a problem. If someone messes up, you ban them.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

The real problem here is that I am right and some of you just can't stand it!

What the old General said.

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scenebooster 6 years, 3 months ago

"new york,paris etc. is not lawrence. its diff. age group more responsible to others."

WTF? You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

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macon47 6 years, 3 months ago

the pig got a sweet heart deal cause they have buds with the city folk,

no one else in town could have pulled this off. unless mike amyxx wants to start cutting hair on the side walk.

all it all ,this shouldnt be that bad anyway, they have to sweep up the butts every morning they can sweep up the puke at the same time

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logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

"What a can of worms those forward thinking amigos left for others to deal with."


First of all, whether the original commission that did this did it mistakenly or "as a favor" (as you put it) is irrelevant at this point, because the CURRENT city commission gave it a rubber stamp.

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staff04 6 years, 3 months ago

See no problems with it, as long as, as the commission has stated, it is done with certain limits. Frankly, I like the one suggested that the patrons must be seated at a table and not just milling around, smoking and drinking.

Think that is perfectly resonable. Seems to work well where I live...last I noticed, property values here were still going through the roof and Lucifer hadn't yet arrived...and they've been allowed here for my entire time here.

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 3 months ago

After all, when Hamburg was bombed in WWII, it clearly had no military value, as Marion insists, despite historians conclusions otherwise.

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moo 6 years, 3 months ago

Awesome idea! I so miss the outdoor drinking areas of Berlin. When I came back to the US, it took quite a while to get used to the idea that you couldn't just take a beer out with you when you left and stroll and around sipping it in a nice, civilized manner. What a silly restriction. I never saw out of control kids there (and Berlin is a college town too with 2 major universities), if anything people in these areas were just jovial and friendly to people passing by. If this were to happen, bar owners would be responsible for maintaining the peace in the outdoor areas and for kicking out anyone who got to rowdy.

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speedy 6 years, 3 months ago

new york,paris etc. is not lawrence. its diff. age group more responsible to others.
bad idea unless the hours are restricted outside.

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 3 months ago

We have to be careful about what "you thought at one time" Marion, because the opinions do wander around.

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 3 months ago

Marion speaks: "It will be recalled that I predicted with more than some degree of accuracy that this very scenario would ensure following the approval of the sidewalk licence for The Pig."


Wrong Marion. You predicted that it would be litigation, based upon the Pig, which would change the situation. I am still waiting,.....

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Eric Neuteboom 6 years, 3 months ago

Don't throw your shoulder out patting yourself on the back, Marion.

Nobody likes a braggard. Especially a sanctimonious one like yourself.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh, I forgot..................................

................most of the residents of Bolshevia On The Plains lead fear-based lives!

never mind

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

Logic:

The "legacy" of the "Progressives(Read: "Repressives")" to which I refer began under the chains of Komrade Dunfield, Arch "Progressive", who had a "vision"(Induced by what, Gawdonlyknows!), which foggy "vision" has been reinforced and continued by every Kommission since!

Clearly, the City has very real legal issues which it will have to face this year; sidewalk seating, the upcoming challenge to the unequal enforcement of the smoking ban, not to mention the fact that it can't get the potholes fixed in a timely manner, the fallout from the uselss WalMart fight which cost the taxpayers how much?

The City of Lawrence, Kansas is not only fiscally bankrupt but intellectually as well.

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Larry Powers 6 years, 3 months ago

I was born at night, but not last night. Frankly, I think this would be the beginning of something that would not be a great change, but would be detrimental. I am an advocate for change, but not all change is good change. Larry Powers

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akt2 6 years, 3 months ago

I personally have been going downtown Lawrence for 40 years. My aunts took me to Weaver's for school clothes when I was 5. I've worked there, banked there, shopped there and spent a lot of time there. I don't know why the citizens that utilize downtown should be subjected to outdoor drinking establishments. What nonsense.

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monkeyhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

"But the recently discovered Bourgeois Pig situation - where city staff members in the 1990s mistakenly gave the Pig a permit even though it did not qualify for one ....."

I find it hard to swallow that anything done at city hall is done "mistakenly". Seems that there have been many "exceptions" granted to special folks in Lawrence.

Imagine all the puke visitors will have to sidestep now, along with all the butts carelessly tossed aside, not to mention how much easier it will be for the bums to panhandle the drunks.

What a can of worms those forward thinking amigos left for others to deal with.

There is a simple solution to this - withdraw the "mistaken" permit to the Lib Pig. Problem solved.

BTW, once again, Marion's predictions have come true. Maybe the city should hire him.

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MCwzMC 6 years, 3 months ago

Ohh no, college kids, adults, and maybe even their children sitting on a sidewalk patio eating and... Oh no...maybe drinking too. That would be terrible. It would be like Chicago, Paris or London. All those people sitting, staring, eating and drinking. How disgusting. We should lock them in closets instead.

Get a life whiners. It too bad, at one time you probably knew how to have fun too.

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FatTony 6 years, 3 months ago

Sigmond - Ever been California, I don't think there is a blackout of the sun caused by all the smokers outside.

"The smoking ordinance is about to turn the Lawrence's public sidewalks into the largest smoking porch/bar in the Country. Should be a great tourist attraction!"

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frankwiles 6 years, 3 months ago

beobachter, you obviously haven't been in a downtown bar in a long time. With a few exceptions, you rarely find more than a couple of people in a downtown bar before 9pm. Things don't even get busy until 10-11pm in most places. The college kids go out very late, so you're "safe" from their evil ways until much later in the evening.

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sandysslick 6 years, 3 months ago

No one blows his own horn like Marion.

I have wanted to say this for years.......

Marion is an example of an ego that has over come it's own intellect.

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Dollypawpaw 6 years, 3 months ago

This Liberal hayseed town cracks me up.

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logicsound04 6 years, 3 months ago

Progressives, Marion? What are you talking about?

It was THIS very commission that allowed the Pig to keep it's sidewalk dining license after the new owners brought it to their attention that it was issued in error (back in November).

I can't say I feel a particular way about allowing drunk college students out into those tiny little corrals on Mass Street, but I'm also not surprised that this is happening. If the city didn't want to allow bars to have this privelege, then they shouldn't have granted an exception for the Pig based on the 1990's city leadership's mistake.

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Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

snap writes:

marion

,

are

you

still

banned

from

the

Pig

?

0

Pogo 6 years, 3 months ago

Great. A bunch of drunk college kids being allowed to publically display their idiocy.

How about charging each one a $25.00 usage fee each time they sit down which the City in turn collects from the bar. That's all they are....bars. This ain't Paris. It ain't Amsterdam. It ain't anywhere but here which is nowhere. Keep the drinking inside.

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scenebooster 6 years, 3 months ago

What would be so bad about this? You wet-panty types get twisted over everything.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 3 months ago

It will be recalled that I predicted with more than some degree of accuracy that this very scenario would ensure following the approval of the sidewalk licence for The Pig.

I was called all sorts of intersting names and told by some to go do impossible things with myself.

To my detractors, I say, "Nanna-nanna-boo-boo!"

I did also indicated in no uncertain terms that I supported The Pig in its effort to retain its sidewalk drinking area.

You folks are now dealing with the legacy of The "Progressives", so ya'll have a nice day, ya hear?

bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Of course, every major city in the world; those cities considered to be pinnacles of civilisation and sophistication offer virtually unrestricted uses in their sidewalk cafes, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Rio; the list goes on but Lawrence, Kansas certainly could not emulate such cites as Lawrence is, ouf course, located in KANSAS; a place just as stupid as you think that it might be!

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beobachter 6 years, 3 months ago

akt2, if this is allowed, I'll never go downtown again on weekends or after 5pm. A bunch of obnoxious college drunks really sounds like a fun ambiance for window shopping or simply walking.

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macon47 6 years, 3 months ago

ok, so now that all the "beautiful people" are out on the sidewalks eating and drinking

are the smokers supposed to go
back inside so not to offend?

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akt2 6 years, 3 months ago

Yet another reason to avoid downtown Lawrence, Ks.

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bobberboy 6 years, 3 months ago

Let um drink outside for cryin out loud !

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thomgreen 6 years, 3 months ago

I like the idea personally. I've always thought the outside seating areas were quaint and more personable for some reason. Also, since the city owns the sidewalk (correct?) couldn't this be a possible source for some additional income? Charge them a yearly fee to lease the space. Granted, it won't make the city richer, but every little bit helps. I'd rather them up the coffers this way, rather than look at parking tickets and other sources of punishment as sources of income. Has anyone seen that show Philadelphia Parking Attendants?!?! I'll never complain about paying $2 for a parking ticket again (not that I did before).

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Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

The smoking ordinance is about to turn the Lawrence's public sidewalks into the largest smoking porch/bar in the Country. Should be a great tourist attraction!

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plumberscrack 6 years, 3 months ago

City commissioners in November agreed to allow the downtown drinking establishment The Bourgeois Pig, 6 E. Ninth St., to keep its sidewalk dining license, even though the coffee shop/bar doesn't meet the city's requirement that says businesses with sidewalk seating areas make at least 70 percent of their sales from food.

Now, bar owners are saying what's good for the Pig is good for their pubs. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Give 'em an inch and they'll ask for a mile....

The real question should be: Do we want to have open saloons or not for our downtown?

Would it be legal to do so? Because we all know that is what will happen for law enforcement because "Give 'em an inch and they'll ask for a mile....

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macon47 6 years, 3 months ago

Lets see First everyone wanted to eat outside Then we ran the smokers to the curb Now we want to drink outside How long before we want to Use the restroom at the curb?

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spywell 6 years, 3 months ago

Less sidewalk and more congested sidewalks. The city can't keep the bikes, skateboards and joggers from knocking you down now. Why would they try to remove half the area and expect a pleasant sidewalk.

Besides these dinning establishments are not kept clean and draws flies and food and spilt drinks are everywhere.

I think they need to limit any future sidewalk expansion for food or drink sales, we have enough already.

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