Bar owners hope to serve alcohol outdoors
A downtown business wants to keep serving cocktails on the sidewalk, and that's leaving some other bar owners hoping to do the same. Enlarge video
Three Questions with ... David Johanning, co-owner of The Sandbar
David Johanning, co-owner of The Sandbar in downtown Lawrence and a former Kansas University basketball player, answers three questions about the desire for bars to gain permission for offering sidewalk drinking, the prospects for the city allowing such service, and his projections for how the latest edition of basketball Jayhawks will fare on the hardwood this season. Enlarge video
Related City Commission documents
Sidewalk dining and bars
- City to explore regulating bars on 'disorderly business' basis (08-15-07)
- Sound Off: Do the restaurants in downtown - those with the outside seating - have to pay a fee for the use of the sidewalks? (12-03-5)
- Sidewalk dining issues on table (07-18-05)
- Sidewalk dining changes on hold, bar owners want speedy action (07-02-05)
The new owners of The Bourgeois Pig could help break ground for downtown bar owners hoping for permission to sell beer and booze on the sidewalks of the city's central business district.
At least that's what Jerry Neverve is counting on.
"I've been trying to get an outdoor dining area for years - ever since the smoking ban started," said Neverve, owner of Red Lyon Tavern, 944 Mass. "We'll see what happens."
That's where The Bourgeois Pig comes in. The coffee shop and bar at 6 E. Ninth St. needs permission from Lawrence city commissioners to keep operating as it has been for nine years: serving drinks, including alcohol, that can be consumed within a defined area on the sidewalk in front of the business.
Because the Pig doesn't meet city code for such a license - the business doesn't make at least 70 percent of its revenue from food sales - Ryan Pope and his business partner need the city's blessing to continue. The owners say they had no idea, when they bought the place this year, that they couldn't serve alcohol outside.
Now, because nobody's complained about the sidewalk drinking and Pope has been upfront and helpful in seeking city cooperation, City Clerk Frank Reeb is recommending that the Pig keep its license.
Commissioners will consider the issue during Tuesday's commission meeting, which begins at 6:35 p.m. at City Hall, Sixth and Massachusetts streets.
"What we're trying to do is be reasonable," City Commissioner Rob Chestnut said. "In this particular case, it's a long-established business that's been an enhancement to the area. I would really hate to put them in jeopardy."
Neverve and David Johanning, owner and manager of The Sandbar, see their situations as reasonable, too. Neverve wants to make room for as many as 20 people to smoke and drink outside his place. Johanning finally would be able to put ashtrays outside.
City Manager David Corliss said that while the Pig's license would be up for approval Tuesday, other issues could be discussed as well.
"Maybe we should see this as a pilot project, and that's fine," he said. "But we still have concerns. Maybe The Bourgeois Pig is showing us that we don't need to have those concerns. I don't know."
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Sigmund (anonymous) says…
You can't smoke inside bars, but you can smoke and get drunk on public sidewalks? And then people then wonder why violence in downtown Lawrence has increased in recent years. Seriously, this town is stuck on stupid.
Ragingbear (anonymous) says…
They should just get around to selling sticks to shove up their rears. That place should close up and make way for a place not ran by a bunch of yuppie wannabees that think that their place is too "prestigious" to bother and serve people a mere cup of coffee.
knowtoomuch (anonymous) says…
Could Marietta N. Parker & Terra D. Morehead U.S District Attorney's be Involved in Missing Evidence Found for Sale In Local Pawn Shops In Lawrence kansas ?
The Yellow House Fencing investigation had turned ugly for the Lawrence police dept.
Officer's Jay Bialek and Officers Mickey Rantz interviewed yellow house costumers while impersonating FBI agents in a effort to intimidate these costumers. The media picked up the story and Marietta Parker and Terra Morehead both U.S. assistants District Attorneys for the state of Kansas tried to help the Lawrence police Chief Ron Olin cover up the impersonations by launching a Fake FBI investigation into the Lawrence Police dept. complete with a fake FBI agent named Mr. Bob Schaefer.
Mr. Bob Schaefer had several meetings with the media, attorneys, and officials from the Lawrence police dept. Mr. Schaefer was sent here from K.C. When Lawrence in in the jurisdiction of the Topeka FBI office. Mrs. Marietta Parker is in some hot watter with the real FBI now and it has come to the attention of the real FBI that the Lawrence police dept. has evidence missing from the Police evidence room and some of this missing evidence have turned up in both local pawn shops here in Lawrence.
The property missing from the evidence room consisted of firearms, drugs,tools ect..
Could this missing property be the reason the federal prosecutor's Parker and Morehead violated the law posing as FBI agency and conspired to impersonate a FBI agent by sending Mr. Schaefer here to smooth things out ? (a fake FBI agent)
Could these Federal prosecutors be involved in the illegal removal of property from the police evidence room and the selling of it to the local pawn shops ?
Think about it for a min. when the dirty Lawrence police officers arrest someone and get the Justice dept. to charge them on the federal level based on lies it could be a nice gig , yep once your case go's to federal court most attorneys advice is to plea and take the deal, this will allow the cops to keep your seized property to sell to the pawn shops and it allows the dirty Justice dept. prosecutors to Take your home and business through forfeitures just to keep a winning conviction record
and everybody's happy except the poor person who was intimidated and now is going to jail as a innocence person because he listened to his dirty attorney who never believed in him in the 1st place.
Just how much money is worth violating a federal prosecutor's oath of offices ?
How much missing evidence from the evidence room is worth violating your oath office as a law enforcement officer ?
Do you think these Dirty law enforcements officials will be held accountable for their actions , its a sad day when the law enforcement officers and the Justice dept. Federal officials are not held to the same strict code of conduct they hold the public to.
emilyhadley (Emily Hadley) says…
These people do not represent us.
Lawrence is a wonderful place to live. Downtown is nice, and the Pig is chill and cozy.
I have been digging the Papua New Guinea lately, and I don't see why those with cocktails shouldn't be able to sit outside and enjoy the outdoor environment with me.
The Pig is one of the very few places I have gone to have a beer and read a book. It's a nice spot, partly because people go elsewhere for dinner and come there to relax and recharge.
Bladerunner (anonymous) says…
Hey Knowtoomuch.
Nobody cares.....Stop trying to horn in on other articles discussions.
Your new account was just added today. Everyone knows its the Neighbors so
cut it out!!!!!!!!!!!!
sunflower97 (Amy Bartle) says…
I love the Pig! I hope they get to serve drinks outside - it's mighty busy in there so it would be nice to be able to move around a a little more!
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
marion outingbulkerbiz lynn, weren't you told to leave the Pig & not come back?
dirkleisure (anonymous) says…
Maybe it will get them off these message boards and onto the sidewalks.
Ragingbear (anonymous) says…
~~Thats all we need, a bunch of drunks hanging out on the sidewalks of downtown.~~
You already got that there. Oftentimes it is still early in the morning. I see them with glasses of booze outside all the time anyways. Then you end up tripping over the dozen or so dogs and bicycles they place there, then they yell at you when you bump one of them trying to get by. A person in a wheelchair can't even go down that area now because of the railing.
wats211 (anonymous) says…
i wish julies biergarten had an outdoor smoking area! back to the issue....jerry neverve has battled the city fo years...give the man a break...its america afterall...freedom to run a business your way ...thats the american way. good luck jerry...the silent majority is behind you!!!!
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
Marion sez:"but under the current code, this exemption cannot be granted!"
You may not think it right, but sure the City can make grant an exemption. The longstanding prior non-conforming operation puts the Pig in a different place, legally and equitably, from the other bars. Sue all you want. It is just different.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
Just bought a business and unforeseen problems arise? I hope the new owners can work things out to their advantage. They're not in a fun position. Good luck! Let's hope the city doesn't blindly follow the rules and gives you a break.
cms (anonymous) says…
Come on. Grow up Lawrence, let us drink on the patio.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
I love the pig and love the atmosphere and hope is doesn't go away. But I liked it better when it was just a coffee shop, now it's just too croweded to enjoy a relaxing sitdown in there anymore these days. So it really doesn't matter to me if they sell booze. Besides you can get booze anywhere else in town - plenty of other places to go. We need one little place that is quite, peaceful, serene and cozy to go and read or study. And The Bourgeois Pig use to be just that.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
Sunshine....you can't stay in business very long with the majority of your clinetele buying a $2.00 espresso then hanging out for the next 2 hours reading the paper and chewing the fat (which said fat is not purchased at your establishment).
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
hawk, that has become the new snow in lawrence. Cigarette smokers, as a class, are not very respectful and tend to liberally toss butts around. Somehow litering and tossing a butt on the ground don't seem to be the same thing to them.
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
wrongo, mr marion. City could of and should have done something earlier. Laches and estoppel. You lose.
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
Lecher? ;-)
Can you say sui generis? This is great stuff.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
lecher? milk? sort of...
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
quot homines tot sententiae
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
And it is laches, marion, not pine tree larches.
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
This will not be a couple of people enjoying a pleasant adult beverage out on the veranda. This will be college kids getting plastered and harassing people as they pass by. I don't think laches nor estoppel arguments will succeed against the City enforcing the current code.
"I have been drinking and driving on this street for years and you never stopped me before. You are estopped from charging me now" is an unlikely winner. And while I am sure that the posters here will be more than happy to refresh my memory, I can't remember the doctrines of laches and estoppel (essentially arguments used in courts of equity) being the basis of a successful defense of a criminal case or code violation.
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
Episode 12B. How To Recognize Different Types of Trees From Quite A Long Way Away: The Larch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJegKF...
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
Some light reading on the subject.
Wooded Shores Property Owners Ass'n Inc. v. Mathews, 37 Ill. App.3d 334, 345 N.E.2d. 186, 189.
Lake Development Enterprises, Inc. v. Kojetinsky, Mo.App. 410 S.W.2d 361, 367.
People ex rel. Mulvey v. City of Chicago, 292 Ill.App. 589, 12 N.E.2d 13, 16;
Eldridge v. Idaho State Penitentiary, 54 Idaho 213, 30 P.2d 781, 784;
Heyburn Bldg. Co. v. Highland Motor Transfer Co., 245 Ky. 514, 53 S.W.2d 944, 946;
Davidson v. Grady, C.C.AFla., 105 F.2d 405, 408;
McCauley v. Northern Texas Traction Co. Tex.Civ.App., 21 S.W.2d 309, 313;
Loveland Camp No. 83, W. O. W., v. Woodmen Bldg. & Benev. Ass'n, 108 Colo. 297, 116 P.2d 195, 199;
Kennedy v. Denny, 237 Ky. 649, 36 S.W.2d 41, 42.
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
The previous Kommission turned all the bars non-smoking despite concerns that sales, and liqour sales tax revenues, would decline. Then there was the rush by those that had the space to add smoking patios in order to keep patrons coming to their bars. Those without space turned the public sidewalks into defacto smoking sections pushing intoxicated crowds of smokers, and their friends, outside on the public sidewalks.
Now this City Commission is contemplating allowing them to bring their drinks and smokes onto the public sidewalks as well. Welcome to Beautiful Downtown Lawrence Bar and Salon!
How about putting the drinking and the smoking back where they belong, inside the bars?
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
Valkyrie_of_Reason could you provide a list of sites where I can read your cites?
matahari (anonymous) says…
The new owners of The Bourgeois Pig could help break ground for downtown bar owners hoping for permission to sell beer and booze on the sidewalks of the city's central business district.
*****At least that's what Jerry Neverve is counting on.******
"I've been trying to get an outdoor dining area for years - ever since the smoking ban started," said Neverve, owner of Red Lyon Tavern, 944 Mass. "We'll see what happens."
I say he knew....haha, haha, and he's betting a good bet, cause bottom dollar says he's pretty sure what he's betting on~think?
ralphralph (anonymous) says…
Sig, you might be onto something there.
But it won't happen.
Not touchy-feely appropriate.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
observar (Anonymous) says:
This sure shows the business skills the new owner has. Can't imagine any person with a single ounce of brains buying a business with no clue as to what is allowed at that location.
*******
observer, you've obviously never bought a business. There are a lot of things to consider when buying a business, especially one that is regulated by a whole slew of state entities. It's easy to overlook something. As easy as you find it to criticize.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
"The Bourgeois Pig .... needs permission from Lawrence city commissioners to keep operating as it has been for nine years: serving drinks, including alcohol, that can be consumed within a defined area on the sidewalk in front of the business."
*******
They've been doing that for 9 years, who would have thought they weren't allowed to do it? If you walk inside the building and it has a ceiling, you don't climb up on top to make sure the roof is there too.
As I mentioned, when buying a business there are a lot of considerations and you can easily overlook something that appears to not need attention.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
The City has this idea that when there is a transfer they should try to one up the new owners. Believe it is all about dollars and control for them.
igby (anonymous) says…
Hi, newby and ready, had coffee here a few times. They charge for refills. But last summer, I had a few beers here and I hope they can keep their status.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
Senator Claghorn knows his stuff and he's pretty hot too.:)
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
Plugging your new "forum" already, outingbulkerbiz?
Anyone who doesn't know the story of outingbulkerbiz should read:
http://ikillspammers.blogspot.com/200...
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
Hmm and that link has what to do with alcohol being served at the pig? I think the city needs to let these folks continue as the previous owners did.
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
Seeing Marion giving advice on how to run a business in Lawrence always makes me laugh.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
So then Snap give us your expertise on how the new owners of the Pig should move forward in order to maintain the same level of service as the previous owners. Do feel free to post your credentials in this matter.
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
Sigmund:
Westlaw
1ezbakeoven (anonymous) says…
I can't belive the comments here. You've got to be kidding me. Talk about small town Kansas. There are bigger issues in your State. What ever happened to Greensburg, Kansas??????
Marion. Why don't you Tackle that issue.................... Your input is sooooo important.
: (
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
Marion/NickDanger/Hewalksaginbynight/et al...
Is this his new cause? He failed on so many others. Doggies. Commisioners. etc...
Go Marion! Maybe this will be the one for you!
A couple years ago the Pig got robbed and Marion et al... decided that it was because they didn't take his advice. No matter that they kicked him out for life prior to that. Grudges.
Marion... so weak.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Marion wrote: "Failing an ability to effectively deal with the topic, the resort of the nutcases is to attack the persona of those they dislike, even if they are in agreement with such persons.
This sort of thing eveidences mental illness on the part of the attackers but you, the readers, are not supposed to notice that."
So sayeth the King of the Hypocrites.
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
"My failed businesses in Lawrence, let me show you them."
"AAA Pawn, Free State Press, Pretentious Cow."
igby (anonymous) says…
Marion: In spite of the shamful attacking referencing a failure (commission, dog, ect). I got the impression you were in-support of the pig's new ownership as well, but giving us a little history about your attempt to purchase it in the past was insightful. Thanks for the history.
People that judge someone on their failures usually have little to be judged upon themselves because they never did anything or have any experienceses. I'd trust a person who's tried and failed rather than a person who's done nothing, yet slams in your face your lifes failures. Usually, these B type personallities work for the government in some lowesome job thats boring and unrewarding, stateworks, police, postal, IRS, ect. oh, and city, lol.
In the past, the commission, has given credit too existing business and their normal business atmosphere. Unless the business had had numerous complaints, I see no reason for the commission to deny their sidewalk liquor permit.