Letters to the Editor

Mixed record

September 7, 2007

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To the editor:

In past years, I have voted like most evangelicals. If a candidate testified of a "born again" experience and claimed to be "pro-life," my church circles encouraged me to vote for him or her. This meant, sad to say, that I helped Bush get elected twice. Also, I supported Bush loyalists like Jim Ryun and Sam Brownback because they were "godly" men who took a stand against abortion.

As I began to check the voting record of these and other "pro-life" politicians, I became increasingly disturbed that they didn't exactly appear to be "pro-life" on issues other than abortion. For example, these legislators want laws to protect our youngest generation - the yet to be born - but oppose sensible gun laws that could save many lives of America's children and young adults. They are marionettes of the gun lobby who have become hardened to gun violence.

Worse yet is that these so-called "pro-life" backers of Bush have supported an Iraq occupation with its horrific and lethal consequences. Our military efforts to forge a "made in the U.S.A." democracy out of several irreconcilable people groups are costing thousands of lives. This "enforced democracy" is our latest oxymoron.

Of course, Ryun and Brownback are doing a lot of backpedaling and are distancing themselves from the president these days. It reminds me of those furry critters that jump ship when the vessel begins to take on considerable water.

Neil Brown,

Lawrence

Comments

average 10 years, 2 months ago

Neil, you realize that you helped install a purportedly pro-life president, a purportedly pro-life legislature, and a supreme court now that would defend such an action. Yet, did they do anything at all to reward your single-issue vote? If they took a stand against abortion, they took the weakest, hollowest stand possible.

KS 10 years, 2 months ago

Neil - Abortion, gun control and Iraq are mutally exclusive issues. As a Bush supporter and also a prolife sort of a guy, you should be pleased with Bush for his appointments to the Supreme Court! That is where the issue of abortion is resolved, not with Ryun or Brownback.

storm 10 years, 2 months ago

This letter demonstrates why one-issue voting is never wise.

stuckinthemiddle 10 years, 2 months ago

Thank you for sharing this, Neil... It's not easy to admit such mistakes but my guess is that there are a lot of Christians feeling and thinking the same way that you do...

TheYetiSpeaks 10 years, 2 months ago

Ah, Neil. You have stumbled upon the biggest problem with our two-party system of government today. Most Republicans and Democrats lie on the extreme edges of their issues, while the answers usually lie somewhere in the middle, hopelessly unfound because the two sides are more interested in posturing for their everpresent next election.

imastinker 10 years, 2 months ago

there's still some christians that don't feel the way he does. If he had talked about the death penalty, I'd agree. However, I do not believe that gun laws save lives, and think we need to stick to our guns in Iraq of it will be a bigger mess than before we entered.

There are a lot of people out there that do believe that abortion is the biggest problem in america - me included! It's never single issue voting, it's weighing the issues.

SettingTheRecordStraight 10 years, 2 months ago

Neil,

Thank you for being vocal about your pro-life position. Our numbers are growing every day.

pace 10 years, 2 months ago

Good letter, it sound like it was from the heart. while it takes a village to raise a child, i have no idea how many voters it would take to raise a politician that doesn't pander to lobbiest and popular opinion polls.

As for the cry for guns laws, past time. Putting a gun into someones' hands and not requiring any gun or safety education is way past time. My advise don't go hunting with someone who is agin those dang laws. Information about the tool you are buying could save you, a member of your family or heck me. People can buy a gun and use it and not know how far it will fire, how to carry it or how , well you get the picture. right to drive, know how, right to guns, know how.

mick 10 years, 2 months ago

It's hard for me to understand how Christians can be so easily fooled. Remember, "let them by their fruits be known" and "beware of wolves in sheep's clothing." One of the biggest dangers right now is one John Hagee who ispreaching a radical Zionist agenda and I guess hoping for a self-fulfilling prophecy for the end of the world.

Richard Heckler 10 years, 2 months ago

Politicians plus BUSHCO kill a lot of men,women and Children in the name of american interests.

Better government comes to Lawrence, our statehouse and Washington D.C when special interest campaign financing ceases to run governments.

***Replace all neocons in addition to 95% of all other incumbents.

Campaigns go too long,spend way too much money and do not necessarily provide the best available. It is up to us to stop the nonsense at the voting booths on the 2008 ballot. Not voting sends the wrong message and changes nothing.

Lets's demand a new system and vote in Fair Vote America : http://www.fairvote.org/irv/ Demand a change on the 2008 ballot.

The big money candidates are more beholden than ever to corporate special interests due to the very long nature of campaigns. How do they have time to do the job they were elected to do? We need public financing of campaigns. Citizens cannot afford special interest money campaigns for it is the citizens that get left out.

http://www.publicampaign.org/

Who would be against Public Funding? The special interest money providers and their bought and paid for politicians!

imastinker 10 years, 2 months ago

We have long lines to wait to adopt a child, so what to do with kids when born is not an issue.

It's only single issue voting if it's the only issue you look at. Otherwise, it weighing the issues and voting on someone who fits what you want best. Look at the numbers:

http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/allcause.html http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm#fig1

It's hard to find the real facts I want, but the abortion rate per 100000 women age 15-44 is 2100 and the overall death rate for all people all ages is 837. Assuming that women age 15-44 are half the population of women, the death rate by abortion is around 525 per 100000.

If you believed this too you'd consider this the most important issue in America today as well.

imastinker 10 years, 2 months ago

I don't think I understand the question. People may go overseas because of the long wait in the US to adopt.

Look here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=adoption+wait&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

SloMo 10 years, 2 months ago

There may be long lines to adopt healthy infants, but not most of the babies and children who really need families.

The number one reason for most abortions is economic: the woman (or girl) doesn't think she can afford to have the baby and raise it. Unless we can make raising children affordable, the demands for abortion will continue to rise. Parental leave with pay, access to health care and child care, anti-discrimination (against single parents, children with disabilities, etc) laws, strong public schools, public transportation, consumer protection laws - these help families.

Government subsidized social programs are pro-life. Punishing women (or girls) for "failing to take personal responsibility" is anti-life.

staff04 10 years, 2 months ago

imastinker:

For newborn, white babies, yes, the wait is long. Not so for minorities and older children, who are just as in need of adoption.

Cait McKnelly 10 years, 2 months ago

Why is it that the lines are so long for adoption when the local news agencies constantly have things like "Thursday's Child" where they showcase an older. minority or disabled child eligible for adoption? Are these children any less deserving of a good home? I'm sure the line is a mile long if you want that precious commodity, a white newborn. But to force women to go through pregnancy and childbirth just so you can adopt your dream baby smacks of "The Handmaid's Tale". Women aren't your personal birthing machines. And what about those children who for one reason or another aren't eligible for adoption? Where are the social programs and "faith based" initiatives to support them? How many kids in this country go to bed hungry each night? How many depend on the school lunch program just to get a hot meal or two each day? What do they do in the summer when school isn't in session? It utterly amazes me how many people are prolife...up to the point that the baby is born. After that they could care less.

Cait McKnelly 10 years, 2 months ago

Considering that SloMo's comment was thoughtful and articulate (whether I agree with it or not, which I do) why was it so important to you to slam this person for their sign in name? Did it add to the debate? Was it a comment on the discussion in question or the article? Did you disagree with him/her? If so what is your disagreement? I think you need to learn the rules of debate and that ad hominem attacks make you look mean, your position untenable and that if you attack people for no reason others will simply disregard anything you have to say regardless of it's value.

outdoor55 10 years, 2 months ago

All life is sacred unless you can drop a bomb on it, put a bullet in it or shock the crap out of it. Don't you love republicans?

SloMo 10 years, 2 months ago

Hey, herb! What do you suppose the founding fathers meant by the "in order to maintain a well-regulated militia" part of the 2nd ammendment?

EXks 10 years, 2 months ago

G Bush, D Cheney will have oned day have to answer to the Creator because they are indirectly respnsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children......all because of their egotistical desires and nature.

Professors of Pro-Life?? I think not.

imastinker 10 years, 2 months ago

Have you really considered bringing home an older child to be with your kids? One who may hurt your children? One who it would be more difficult to know because of past issues? Please don't trivialize that part of the decision. I'd imagine that would be a very hard decision to make.

Regardless, we are talking about infants, not older kids. The minority comment is appropriate and interesting. I have been considering this for a little while now, and am trying to put myself into the shoes of a parent who cannot have kids. I think a parent like that just wants to be like other people, capable of having a child that is their own flesh and blood. Barring that, I think they would want a child that shares as many attributes to them as possible. Given the choice, I think they would pick a blond haired girl over a redhead if they were both blondes or a german baby over an italian baby if they were both German. Is this really wrong?

SloMo 10 years, 2 months ago

Hurt my feelings or make me feel inferior? You?! To quote Pygmalion (1938), "Not bloody likely!"

So do you think that the 2nd ammendment gives citizens the right to stockpile any weapons they like for whatever reason they like, given that first part of the wording, especially the "well regulated" part?

I'm happy for your (one) acquaintance who was able to raise three kids against all odds, but I stand by my argument that laws that protect, and social programs that support, children and families go further than anything else to reduce the demand for abortions.

gogoplata 10 years, 2 months ago

How pathetically weak our society has become.

Good luck finding a cop if your home is broken into at 3am. Government is not meant to be your mommy or daddy. This is a nation that champions individual rights. You can't have true freedom without a good dose of self reliance.

911 could have been prevented if the pilots had guns. VT could have been prevented if CCH was not restricted on campus. Columbine could have been prevented if some teachers had guns.

Gun laws simply do not work. They empower criminals.

gogoplata 10 years, 2 months ago

In past years, I have voted like most evangelicals. If a candidate testified of a "born again" experience and claimed to be "pro-life," my church circles encouraged me to vote for him or her. This meant, sad to say, that I helped Bush get elected twice.

Same here. I got really frustrated because there were some things I couldn't reconcile. The war was the big issue for me because I heard liberals asking questions that I felt like the republican side couldn't answer. There were no WMDs in Iraq. Also as a Christian I have a hard time on the banning gay marriage issue. I realize that homosexuality is a sin but I don't see in scripture where I am to force my Christianity on someone else. To make a long story short I discovered that libertarian ideas line up quite well with the Bible and last winter I learned about Ron Paul. He is running for the GOP nomination and he makes a lot of sense.

staff04 10 years, 2 months ago

Wow herb, you've been busy. 126 posts in 2 days? How's that engineering thing going?

gogoplata 10 years, 2 months ago

You should have put that at the beginning of your post. I would have stopped reading and dismissed you as a cultist.

Like Jefferson, Franklin and Washington. What about Ronald Reagan?

erod0723 10 years, 2 months ago

Hmm, it seems like Herbal has just recently joined the LJW forums. Could it be right_thinker or kevin or ferdinand in disguise?

SloMo 10 years, 2 months ago

*Snip* Also, abortion has caused a labor shortage in this country(as referenced in The Economist, decidedly NOT a liberal publication) and has forced the issue of mass immigration on our doorsteps:which no whiny, white women ever wants to deal with *Endsnip*

Even without a large population of immigrants, legal or not, it's very debatable whether there is any labor shortage. That there are a lot of immigrants crossing the Mexico/US border illegally is a result of that border being made more porous for the movement of goods. You can't have the border porous enough to move goods at will without it also being porous enough for people to move across it at will.

Here's another "fact" about abortion to add to your list - one of the reasons that women consider children to be "inconvenient" is because broken record alert they (women) don't feel like they can afford them (children)! Make children more affordable with clarification of ealier statement laws that protect families and children and programs that support same and the demand for abortions will decrease.

Candice Chandler 10 years, 2 months ago

In regards to herbalife4life1's rants and ravings about how abortions are creating a shortage in our workforce (among other things), then how does it/she/he/whatever, explain the unemployment rate? To me, it seems that there is not a shortage of labor, but rather of JOBS.

yourworstnightmare 10 years, 2 months ago

"As I began to check the voting record of these and other "pro-life" politicians, I became increasingly disturbed that they didn't exactly appear to be "pro-life" on issues other than abortion."

Eureka! Ya think? I would just like to take this moment to thank you for your votes for Bushco and our long national drunk on ideology and dogma. Thanks alot.

"Of course, Ryun and Brownback are doing a lot of backpedaling and are distancing themselves from the president these days. It reminds me of those furry critters that jump ship when the vessel begins to take on considerable water."

Sayeth one rat jumping from a sinking ship to another. Hey, you voted them in Neil, TWICE. Seems that this letter is a nice piece of distancing and backpedaling itself.

Cait McKnelly 10 years, 2 months ago

Call center jobs and others are being outsourced to India and other third world countries not because there is no labor force here to take them (ask my daughter who has worked for call centers and would love to continue but got laid off) but because it's cheaper for the company to pay the equivalent of $2/hr to an employee than $9/hr. I think you need a lesson in economics. There is plenty of labor force here...for a company that would pay a living wage.

imastinker 10 years, 2 months ago

There are major job shortages in manufacturing and skilled labor. Don't believe me? Look for a machinist or a welder. Even American kids don't want to work at high paying skilled jobs, and the immigrants we have are not skilled. Many of these jobs are going overseas, but it's not for the reason you are saying.

I believe that costs are what are sending jobs overseas in the unskilled field. It is interesting how much more productive the average indian is than his american coutnerpart though.

eesti006 10 years, 2 months ago

Senator Brownback is a hypocrite who has aligned himself with a wacko ultra feminist Iranian American Non governmental organization- the Tahirih Justice Center located Falls Church Virginia. Brownback had previously worked quietly with this Iranian Baha'i faith based organization to pass the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2005. This BLATANTLTY unconstitutional law (that gullible Brownback sponsored) was based on shocking lies and hysterical anecdotes being supplied by the Director of Tahirih Justice Center (Layli Miller-Muro) that American men who date foreigners are "many are premeditated torturers, serial rapists". This in spite of an INS study performed in 1999 that revealed the abuse rate of International marriages (who met husbands via the internet) was a mere 1%.

Senator Brownback you have some explaining to do!

Senator Brownback has consistently stated that family values and pro life issues are the mainstream of his presidential campaign. Well ...Senator Brownback you are obviously a gullible politician because the United States has a long history of American citizens (mostly men) enticing foreign women to move here from Europe and now suddenly you are convinced that International romance is such a radio endeavor that it must be regulated (PREVENTED). Basically you have repudiated the very foundation upon which this country was founded upon based upon the lies and misrepresented information being perpetuated by the Tahirih Justice center.

So now the Americans who were the great liberators of Europe and married European women in droves at the end of World War 2 cower before an Iranian American organization giving them the power to determine whom Americans can communicate with and under what conditions.

Brownback is an idiot who fails to understand this IMBRA law was perpetuated by radical feminists not mainstream feminists. Read what a mainstream feminist thinks about Brownback's wacko law that brands all American men as abusers: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180487,00.html

Dave Root Damascus, Maryland

emmersonbiggones 10 years, 2 months ago

I like the democratic party because they don't like people of faith.

Nick Yoho 10 years, 2 months ago

What we really need in the world is a lot MORE abortions.Seriously.Better yet,birth control and education.

matahari 10 years, 2 months ago

ohhh, just wait until all these immigrants (majority from mexico, majority catholic, majortiy against abortions............) are here for a generation! No more labor shortages! EVER!

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