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Letters to the Editor

Not same God

October 19, 2007

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To the editor:

On Tuesday, Oct. 16, Anne L. Haehl wrote that Mr. Bush has said on more than one occasion that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. She disagreed with Cal Thomas' argument that they are not the same God because Muslims do not accept Jesus as Lord and says she puts to any reader the case of the Jews.

Well, scripture says Jews (and Christians) worship "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" - Adonai Elohim. (Acts 3:13). I believe that Ms. Haehl (and President Bush) offend Muslims by saying they worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Muslims never say they worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! Only secular people who don't study the Bible or the Koran say these Gods are the same. Muslims tell me they worship Allah, the Moon God, not the God of the Hebrews. Ask any Muslim. (The crescent moon and star are recognized internationally as the symbol of the faith of Islam. No other faith uses that symbol.)

Why is it so common, that when someone disagrees with another, (in this case Ms. Haehl with Cal Thomas) he is immediately painted with the "hatred" brush? Can't folks have different opinions without one's motivation being cast as "hateful"? Must we all think identically?

Maybe it's Ms. Haehl who obfuscates rather than Thomas?

Carrol Mills,

Lawrence

Comments

TheYetiSpeaks 7 years, 2 months ago

Better to be silent, and thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt.

Bruce Bertsch 7 years, 2 months ago

Funny, my Muslim friends and I talk religiion. We talk of Father Abraham, and other Old Testament prophets and Jesus Christ, who, according to the Koran, will appear again at the end of days known as Armegeddon. To say we do not worship the same God is not only wrong, but this letter writer shows immense ignorance of traditional Judeo-Christian and Muslim beliefs

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

This letter is as ignorant as it is stupid. Those of the Islamic faith do worship the same god of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and what have you. In fact, Abraham is known as "father Abraham" and they hold the majority of what Christians call the Old Testament as sacred scripture. In fact, the main differences between Muslims and Jews is the coming of Muhammad, who the Jews and Christians reject as a true (and last) prophet of god.

By the way, I am tired of hearing how Muslims worship "Allah" and therefore some different god compared to the ones that Christians only call "God". Allah (Arabic: اÙÙÙ, AllÄh) is the standard Arabic word for "God".(wikipedia.com) Der!

John8_58_and_14_6 7 years, 2 months ago

Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Ask a Muslim if he or she worships God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit.

The following snippet is from http://www.al-aqsaislamicsociety.com/.

  1. The biggest sin in Islam is shirk: "associating partners with God." Shirk may be generally defined as polytheism (worshiping of or believing in more than one deity, especially several deities), but also includes such things as the Christian concept of a triune God(Christian Trinity), or the (sic) worshipping of anything other than God, whether it's a human being, any natural/human creation or phenomenon. This tends to create quite a theological abyss between Muslims and polytheists(people who believe in more than one deity), but also with Christians and certain other religious groups.

  2. Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the son of God. ... Muslims accept Jesus (in Arabic, "Isa") as a prophet, and an extremely important one at that. Following from #2, however, they do not accept the Christian belief that Jesus was the son of God (literally or metaphorically), although they do believe he is the son of Mary (in Arabic, "Maryam"). They further believe that at the time of the Crucifixion, another man was substituted for Jesus and made to look like him. Jesus was then raised up, "body and soul" by God into heaven, which seems to be even more profound.

This is probably the most significant point of difference between Christians and Muslims.

--Go ahead and start tearing into me. I do not care. I am signing off and having a sandwich too. Good night!

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

Hahahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh Mills...

This was supposed to be funny right?

sourpuss 7 years, 2 months ago

If you think Islam worships a different god, read the history of St. Catherine's monastery at Mt. Sinai in Egypt. Oh, there is a mosque there as well as a Christian church, or didn't you know? Hum.

ndmoderate 7 years, 2 months ago

Moon God? Wow, can't say I've ever heard that one before.

More coffee....

Danielle Brunin 7 years, 2 months ago

Well said Ragingbear.

The moon god? Seriously? There are five main prophets in Islam: Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and Muhammed. (In Arabic, Ibrahim, Musa, Noh, Isa, and Muhammed) If I'm not mistaken, these are the same prophets in gasp the Bible. In fact, just as "Bible" means "The Book," Qur'an means "The Book" in Arabic. Like it or not, Muslims consider themselves to worship the same god as Jews and Christians, and to have evolved from the same tradition. They just consider themselves to be the last leg of that tradition, if you will.

yourworstnightmare 7 years, 2 months ago

So, there is more than one god? If the xtian god is omnipotent, why can't it destroy the other god worshipped by muslims?

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

All Al-Quadia really is is what would happen if more people agreed with Fred Phelps and Pat Robert's philosophy about forcing people into religion and such.

Moon God... Yeah... WTF?

Tychoman 7 years, 2 months ago

Because, nightmare, he would be destroying himself :)

Richard Heckler 7 years, 2 months ago

Judaism,Christianity and Islam all have their roots in the Middle East, and the region is filled with sites holy to all three religions.

Islam is a religion and a Muslim is a follower of Islam. Muhammed was the founder of Islam.

Indonesia is the worlds largest Islamic nation.

Mecca,located in Saudi Arabia, is considered the holiest city of Islam and birthplace to Muhammed.

All Israelis are not Jewish but most are. A smaller percentage are Arabs.

Babylonia is Iraq.

Cal Thomas is ................................... is a writer. To what degree a christian who knows?

Danielle Brunin 7 years, 2 months ago

Marion,

LogicSound said it very well. It is not in the interest of extremists groups such as Al Qaeda to acknowledge Jews and Christians, even though the Qur'an views them as "People of the Book," because it is not as easy to kill people that you identify with. They are just like any other religious extremist group. Their motivations are political, but justified in the name of religion.

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

In response to yourworstnightmare's post:

Gets Monster truck announcer hat on

"SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!

Sunday at the Jerusalem Rodeo Grounds, witness the greatest spectacle in mixed martial art, no holds barred history! Christian God and his superior skills in Holy Jujitsu will face off against Allah and his devastating Fists of Jihad fury! Who will win? Who will be the last diety standing! Who will earn the divine right to face the reigning champion of the Octagon in the Sky, Yahweh the Jewish Juggernaut!?!?!

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!"

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

Damn! I forgot to add the Pay Per View title: God Fight VI: This time its for your soul!

**(Only $49.95 on pay per view, contact you local cable operator for details.)

craigers 7 years, 2 months ago

They might have the same roots (as Ragingbear noted), but they aren't the same God. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and if the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as God then how can they be worshipping the same God?

Ragingbear, I drive a car and you drive a car, so could I say we are driving the same car? No, because each car has different characteristics and qualities, or should I say brands? A Nissan car isn't the same as a Chrysler...

denak 7 years, 2 months ago

"....In fact, just as "Bible" means "The Book," Qur'an means "The Book" in Arabic...."

Close but not totally accurate. The word Q'uran (or Koran or any of the other different spellings) has its root meaning in the verb, "to recite" or "to read". Thus, the best translation for the word Quran is "recitation" not "the book." However, different Muslims, do call it "the book" or "last testment" or "the Revelation" or "Book of God." But Recitation is more accurate.

Also, the word, "Bible" does not totally accuately mean "the book." nor does it mean "Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth." The word Bible technically means "little books." but the word originally denoted a geographical area and did not have the current spiritual meaning until much later. Ancient manuscripts were written on dried strips of papyrus that was used for writing paper. The writing paper was produced in the Phoenician city of Byblos. Manuscripts using this type of writing paper were named after the place the writing paper was manufactured, in this case, Byblos. Thus, the word, Byblos (Bible in English) was geographical in origin and meant the type of papyrus used to write on.

I didn't write this to be witchy and I'm not trying to pick on anyone. The only reason I clarified this is because words matter. Islam is not "Christianity Lite" and when we try to make connections between these two religions that don't really exist we dilute what makes both religions profound. They have some similar origins but they are not the same and there could be a good arguement as to whether or not Allah is the same god as "god." The word, god, btw, does not come from ancient Hebrew. The word "God" is the French Medieval term for what we consider the Hebrew diety and the word may, in fact, come from Hindu language of Sanskript. The actual name of the Hebrew Diety is unknown. The first three commandments are religious dictates. The ancient Isrealites were henotheistic meaning that they recognized the existance of other gods but that they believed that their god was the main god. "I am the Lord your God you shall have no other god BEFORE" me." "Thou shall not use thy Lord God's name in vain" is a dicate against using their gods name in public and more importantly in front of other religions priests because it was believed that if the other priests knew the diety's name, they could pray to him.

So, when we say that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god. That, at least historically, may,in fact, not be true. Does that mean that Muslims or Jews or Pagans or whatever aren't deserving of the same protections under the Constitution or that Cal Thomas is correct, no. Only that in order to truly respect and understand these religions, we shouldn't be so caught up in how they are "the same." Just because something is similar doesn't make it the same and even though something is similar doesn't mean that it has the same theological origin.

Dena

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

If the Ring girls are wearing burkas, count me out.

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

I hear tickets are already sold out (only 144,000 available) but if you are quick you might be able to get them on Stub Hub.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 7 years, 2 months ago

Well, I wanted to get in on this fray, but it is awfully crowded! This is the same old argument, "My God can kick you god's ass." Another opinionated human who fails to understand that none of us has any idea of the true nature or scope of the Divine Power of the universe that created all this. So we , as frail humans, resort to forming our pathetic notions and ideas of what and who this Power is and how (He - She - It) works to "control" our lives. If it were not so deadly serious to some folks, it would be alomst comic. Truly, some power or force exists in the Universe and has had dominion over all of Creation. But no one, not one person, has the exclusive right to claim that their view of this power is more correct than anyother. Religion is a matter of faith, but there are those distended souls who think that they must loudly bash any other notion than their own in order to achieve some exclusivity over all others. It is sad. I am sure that the Divine Power has no use for those who use their religious faith to bash and discount other human beings and that in the end, well, I do not know either. Religion is a creation of man, not any deity, and men have used it for ages to discriminate, destroy, and deify images of their own making.

Speakout 7 years, 2 months ago

Dena, I hate to tell you but there is more to this than what you have written. All of the prophets from Adam to Muhammad taught that there was one god and what ever you call God in any language it is the same one. Allah is the Arabic word. Now, the God Muslims worship is the one who created all things, the one to whom all living things return after death. God had power over all things. There is no other god worthy of worship but God (Allah, Dios, Dieu, Jehovah, what ever you call Him.)

Christians who call Jesus, God, are going against their own church. I taught in a Catholic school for several years and the priests talked against that all the time. Jesus is not God, but in Christian thought is His son. Muslims believe that God is one and not a part of many or any equal.

All the jibberish by Cal Thomas, who is Jewish by the way, and the writer of this article are totally wrong and looking to mislead people about their own beliefs and especially those who believe in Islam.

BTW, "Al Qur'an" in Arabic means "The Noble Reading or Recitation".

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

~~Ragingbear, I drive a car and you drive a car, so could I say we are driving the same car?~~

Of course not. I drive a motor scooter.

~~No, because each car has different characteristics and qualities, or should I say brands? A Nissan car isn't the same as a Chrysler:~~

I guess you could say that. But they are still both crappy cars.

Under your argument, one can argue that Catholics don't worship the same God as Episcopalians , or Presbyterians. Or that Seventh Day Adventist don't worship the same God as the Lutherans. Or that Lutherans don't worship the same God as the Catholics. Where does it end? I used to be Mormon for a few years, and constantly got berated that we "didn't worship the same God,". That was always the weakest argument. Just because one group interprets your "words of God" differently does not mean anything.

"But the Muslims have scriptures Christians don't have. And the Bible says to not take away or add to the book!". First of all, a Catholic Bible has like 14 extra books in it compared to a standard KJV. The Jewish Scriptures contain several books that are not found in either. This includes accepted "prophets" and other magnificent occurrences. This includes the mention of 2 archangels that do not exist in the KJV Bible (Raphael and Uriel) And since the root word of Bible is the same root word of Books (Latin-Biblio), as well as the history of the Bible clearly state that when Revelation was written, that there was little in the way of compiling the scriptures. Especially the New Testament. Such warnings are also written in Dueterotemy and Leviticus. In fact, the Bible was not truly composed until thousands of years later, with such works as the Guttenburg Bible and it's predecessors.

Lastly. I don't worship the God of the Christans, Jews, Mormons, Hindus, Rastafarians, Triple Spiral Nesters, or any other "God" out there. You know why? Because it gets people caught up on idiotic things and tells them to "wait for their reward" when I believe more in striving for equality , compassion, friendship, tolerance, respect and a paradise world through my own efforts. Because frankly, all the talk of any God tends to do to people is get them to fight. Yeah. Some peaceful diety. Even after he created prozac for himself in the New Testament.

Oh. And all shall one day behold the Noodly Appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. And our heaven is even better than the Islamic version. We have a stripper factory and a beer volcano. Several actually. Like Mt. Budwiser and Mt. Saint Hienekken.

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

~~Moon God~~

I am Sailor Moon! I fight for Love and Justice!

Fighting evil by the moonlight....

((Oh dear gods. I just caused a blood vessel to rupture)

craigers 7 years, 2 months ago

Speakout, your priests in Catholic school must not like the writings of John then.
John 10:30 - "I and the Father are one." This means they are equals.

craigers 7 years, 2 months ago

When some are discussing god, then yes it is a generic term that could encompass many faiths. However when I speak about God, I am referring to one entity specifically not the Muslim god or any other for that matter. And yes Jesus is god in the flesh, so that means he is God in biblical Christian thought. You can also reference the above scripture. If Jesus is the Son of God, and I believe he is, then Jesus is God. Jesus is called the only begotten son for a reason. You can only beget/procreate other things like you. My wife and I can't give birth to a dog. And neither can dogs give birth to a human.

Danielle Brunin 7 years, 2 months ago

craigers, I have a question for you that I've always been curious about. When Jesus is being crucified, he laments, "Father, why has thou forsaken me?" (I think this is in Matthew) Why would he ask himself why he has forsaken himself, if he is God? I've never been able to get a straight answer.

Dena, I can appreciate what you're saying. What I should have said is that both the Qur'an and the Bible refer to a "noble book, or a book that is above all others." I didn't have time to get into a detailed explanation. However, regarding differences between the religions, I agree that we should understand that there are differences, but emphasizing those differences causes a lot of problems and for just once, maybe we could look at how many ways that we are the same.

Speakout, I was raised Catholic and I was never taught that Jesus was god either. I always thought that they were separate entities. Apparently, it wasn't just me.

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

~~Why would he ask himself why he has forsaken himself, if he is God?~~

Or the garden in Gethsame that he visited immediately before he was arrested and betrayed by Judas. "Oh me, if it be my will let this bitter cup pass from me. But not my will but mine be done."

If that is the case, God needs Lithium more than Prozac.

Haiku_Cuckoo 7 years, 2 months ago

Speakout, your priests in Catholic school must not like the writings of John then. John 10:30 - "I and the Father are one." This means they are equals. ============= "The Father is greater than I" John 14:28

Jesus and the Father are one in terms of spiritual unity, but they are two separate entities. Just like a man and wife are one marital union, but two distinct individuals.

craigers 7 years, 2 months ago

rodentgirl, I will give you the best sincere explanation I can. Based on scripture that I have read, when Jesus came to earth to live and die on the cross, he was doing the will of the Father. He had to die for the sins of man to reconcile man back to God. When Christ was here on earth, he was human and had conflicts with the will of God for His life just like we do. As a Christian, sometimes I ask God why have you foresaken me or why am I going through hard times right now. The fact remains that God is always there. Just like the Psalm says: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me." Even though it seems like God is not with us, he is and is the consistent support we all need in life. The struggle that he had as Ragingbear said in the Garden of Gethsame, shows to us that even when Jesus was on this earth he struggled through the same struggles we do, only Jesus never once went through with something contrary to the will of God. As for asking himself that question... I don't have the exact scriptures, but in the word it says that when Jesus came to earth he shed his diety and became human. This is why he tells his disciples that he doesn't know the day or the hour of his return, because he lacks the all-knowing power of God at that point. And for the moment on that cross as a human, he bore all the sin, disease, etc of all mankind. As the nature of God does not change, we can see that throughout scripture sin cannot be in the prescence of God. So for that time on the cross, Jesus was alone without God the Father because our sin separated Him from God. That was the only moment in Jesus' life that he didn't have the presence of God with Him and He felt more alone than ever in His life. Even though it was a brief separation, when looking at the big picture, Jesus even though He knew that He had to die to help everybody felt that separation and asked a question we all ask when we have problems, why? What is the best about this is that Jesus' life shows that we can struggle in life just like he did, but He also shows us that doing the will of God everytime is a possibility as long as we rely on Him for support and guidance.

I hope that helps some. I know sometimes when I start talking I get so many ideas in my head that things get jumbled up and I hope it didn't confuse you.

Danielle Brunin 7 years, 2 months ago

Actually, the problem with online translators is that they ignore gender. I am female, so "simple and ignorant" would actually have the feminine case on the end, transliterated it would be "besteta wa hajula" rather than "bestet wa hajul." My sweet naiveness? You are making me blush!
These are modern standard Arabic, not Classical Arabic like in the Qur'an Personal struggle -> "jihad" Book -> "kitaab" Peace->"salaam"

Struggle -> depends, but war is "harb" and struggle broadly means "jihad" (I'm not going there) Recitation or to recite -> "al qira'a, iqrau, submission -> Islam or muslim, to submit

We'll discuss later I'm sure, but I have work to do this fine Friday afternoon.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years, 2 months ago

"I know sometimes when I start talking I get so many ideas in my head that things get jumbled up...."

It is the "Christian condition," is it not?

verity 7 years, 2 months ago

Ragingbear, I've never heard of the Triple Spiral Nesters before. Could you please post more information? I've been looking for 60 years and haven't yet found a religion that seemed rational to me, but haven't given up hope yet.

Thanks.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years, 2 months ago

"... some are taking a long swim in the Lake of Fire."

Thank GOD I opted for the asbestos swimming trunks!

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

~~Some of us are going to spend Eternity in Christ's presence; some are taking a long swim in the Lake of Fire.~~

Hmm. Living in a hot place akin to Florida. Or living in a place akin to Florida with people like you... Hmm. Tough choice. I will take hell along with all the people that died never being able to even hear about your Jebus.

TheYetiSpeaks 7 years, 2 months ago

Arguing about the interpretations of the written words of the Bible, Quran, or Tanakh is akin to peeing into a strong wind. You are arguing about translations of translations of translations of....well you get the point. In fact, most Muslims believe that the Quran in book form is no longer the word of God (or the Moon God to Ms. Mills).
I smile when I open up a Bible and start reading a passage that has been translated hundreds of times to be close to the language we speak today, and then I look on the bottom of the page to find (Eureka!) another translation. Doesn't anyone else think thats funny?

mick 7 years, 2 months ago

Arabs and Christians have this in common- they are descendants of Abraham- Arabs through Ishmael and Christians as explained in Galatians. Curiously, these people who call themselves "Jews" are not related to Abraham. Over 95% are ashkenazis descended from Khazars and not related to Abraham or biblical Israel in any way. They have no historical claim to Palestine and are not even semitic (descended from Shem) yet throw out "antisemitism" whenever it suits them. Through the generations they have changed their names to Abrahamson, Levi, etc and many are fooled. They have yamulkas and menorahs and lists of rules but where is the sacrifice? That was the essence of true biblical Judaism. Look at Genesis 10:3 if you want to know who these people really are.

kugrad 7 years, 2 months ago

You all exist at the whim of his noodly majesty, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

http://www.venganza.org/

Possibly the only religion whose followers have yet to start a war.

The recent increase in piracy (recently reported) for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/business/worldbusiness/15PIRA.html?ex=1376366400&en=6eca93f6ef18c58b&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

may mean good news ahead, a possible global cooling trend (see chart in first link).

ARRR! May his noodly appendage touch you. BTW, I want FSM's creation story taught in all science classes and publicly funded vouchers for students to attend a FSM magnet school.

camper 7 years, 2 months ago

Abraham, Jacob, Isaac? What do they mean to me? Absolutely nothing. What does the holy temple mean? Sacred land? Zero. All of this nonsense is causing people to get brainwashed and start killing other people. Tolstoy said that the Kingdom of god is within "you" and I believe him. Our souls reveal god. Outwardly I see god in peoples eyes. I see kindness. Soul. This is God to me. I never will understand all of this religious stuff that took place centuries ago. If I'm going to look for God. I'm going to find it in the goodness of others. Not violence or politics.

Terry Jacobsen 7 years, 2 months ago

Marion writes:

I'm not certain that some humans cannot give birth to dogs based on some of the women I have seen walking around Downtown

Marion... although I find your lack of belief in God troublesome to understand.... I have to admit, this comment was funny! ............ Shamefully laughing as I type.....thanks for a quick laugh

Terry Jacobsen 7 years, 2 months ago

Wow, I have to admit that it surprises me that so many posters who don't believe in God, know a tremendous amount of fact, or fiction about religion! No slam here for that. I don't have a deep philosophical argument to make, but I do have one example and question. I am sure that someone will have enlightening words for me to explain this.

If I meet you on the street and I say, "do you know David Jones?" and your answer is "yes, I know David Jones" does that mean that we know the same person? Perhaps, but perhaps not. So to figure out if we truly know the same person, we start qualifying our information about David Jones. If I say to you, "The David Jones that I know, has only one child and he is a son named George". If you say "The David Jones I know has many children, but none of them are named George", can we possibly be talking about the same David Jones?

By association, if I say, "The God I believe in is called Jehovah, or Allah" and you say "The God I believe in is called Jehovah, or Allah", does that mean that it is the same God? What if I say, "The God I believe in has absolutely only one Son and His name is Jesus Christ" and you say, "The God I believe in has many sons" how can you reconcile this to make these gods the same God?

Now before you start telling me how stupid I am, I would like someone to give me a rational explanation of how this can be resolved.

Thanks!

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

~~Now before you start telling me how stupid I am, I would like someone to give me a rational explanation of how this can be resolved.~~

Remove brain.

Add Detergent.

Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.

Throw brain away.

Give me 8 million dollars or God will kill me.

thusspokezarathustra 7 years, 2 months ago

"By association, if I say, "The God I believe in is called Jehovah, or Allah" and you say "The God I believe in is called Jehovah, or Allah", does that mean that it is the same God? What if I say, "The God I believe in has absolutely only one Son and His name is Jesus Christ" and you say, "The God I believe in has many sons" how can you reconcile this to make these gods the same God?"

Because the religions still hold the same texts sacred. The Hebrews don't recognize the new testament but the Christians still consider it to be the word of God. Christians reject the Koran but Muslims still consider the Bible to be a sacred text. You are comparing apples & oranges. Considering that they are really discussing an imaginary friend it will hardly ever be the same person that they are talking about.

buffalo_star 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure all this mocking of other peoples beliefs will promote world peace or is that whirled pees. i get confused, i know what i know and i don't know what i don't know but sometimes what i know might be wrong and what i don't know bites me in the a**

denak 7 years, 2 months ago

"...I hate to tell you but there is more to this than what you have written. All of the prophets from Adam to Muhammad taught that there was one god and what ever you call God in any language it is the same one....."

Obviously there is more to this then what I wrote or anyone else. There are thousands of years of tradition to consider. However, your assertion that "all the prophets from Adam to Muhammad taught that there was one god and......... it is the same one." is false.

First of all, as I said, the ancient Isrealites were henothestic meaning that they recognized that there were other gods but that their god was the Supreme god.. Considering the vast interaction between the Egyptians, Summarians, Babylonians and other groups in that area, the belief that there is only one god, would have been laughable to most individuals in that area including the Isrealites. Read Psalm 82 as well as the victory song in Exodus 15. All of these passages suggest that the Isrealites, at that stage in their developement, were henothesitc.

Secondly, one can not say "look at all the phrophets from Adam to Muhammed" when there is no historical evidence that there ever was an Adam or a Abraham or an Issac. Oral tradition, which is a legitimate form of expression, doesn't quite cut it in terms of historical proof. There is no outside source that these individuals existed other than oral tradition and history demands a little bit more proof that. There is, of course, historical proof, outside the Q'uran, that Muhammed existed.There is even some proof, albiet a very small amount, that there was a man named Jesus that was put to death for sedition. Only that he was put to death, not that he was the Messiah. This was a matter of debate even among his apostles. Also, there have been phrophets before and after Jesus and Muhammed but many people don't recognize them because they do not fit into their religious beleifs. Especially if these prophets are of another culture.

Anyway, I have a cold and I don't feel like arguing about this anymore.

If you, or anyone else, would like to read a really good textbook (you know just for the heck of it one day) about the formation and the history the the Bible, please feel free to pick up a copy of Understand the Bible by Stephen Harris. I know they have copies at Half Price Book Store.

Personally, I think understanding how the Bible was legitimately formed, makes it much more understandable and interesting and strengthens one's faith rather than takes away from it.

Dena

rtwngr 7 years, 2 months ago

I gotta tell ya, that any God that says it is okay to wrap bombs around children and then send them into a marketplace to kill all those around them is no God of mine. Additionally, I have a problem with any God that promises that if you are killed in Jihad you are immediately received into heaven and given a number of virgins with which to fornicate. After all a Christian heaven is not about self gratification it is about love and worship of God. Silly concepts, huh?

yourworstnightmare 7 years, 2 months ago

So, the muslim god is not the same as the xtian god (nissans versus chryslers, as criagers said)? Whether or not you worship more than one god, belief in more than one god is polytheism (e.g. Odin versus Loki).

So does this mean that there is more than one god? Or does it mean that either muslims or xtians worship a non-existent god?

Or possibly, is there no such thing as god or gods and all of this is hogwash. Parsimony suggests the latter.

measles 7 years, 2 months ago

I used to work with international students learning English at KU. I'd guess that about 90% of them were Muslims. Did you know that many of them, in addition to praying towards Mecca five times a day actually attend Christian churches as well? When I asked them why, they stated quite plainly "Because we are all worshipping the same god."

Furthermore, the fact that anyone would strap bombs to themselves and kill many in the name of god says more about the error of that person's interpretation of the religion than of the religion itself. Were those who slaughtered millions of Muslims in the crusades worshipping a different god than current-day Christians? No, they were not.

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