Letters to the Editor

Mental illness

November 16, 2007

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To the editor:

Gun control is the wrong target to stop atrocities like the Virginia Tech shootings. It is time to look at the true cause of the killings: antidepressants. In the Virginia tech shooting, Columbine and seven other shootings, psychiatric drugs were the common factor.

The Food and Drug Administration has already stated that antidepressants cause suicidal behavior, mania, psychosis, hallucinations and hostility. The black warning labels on these drugs were put there for a reason, and these drugs are given to people without proper cause and too freely.

Now, President Bush's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health wants to screen all schoolchildren for mental illness. The law has been passed in some states, and the program is called TeenScreen. Normal kids are labeled mentally ill with an array of disorders such as mathematics disorder, reading disorder, conduct disorder, just to name a few. This is ludicrous, and parents need to be aware of what is happening so they don't let their children fall into a statistic.

Despite the evidence linking psychiatric drugs to suicide and violence, these drugs are prescribed to millions of children and teens based on subjective diagnoses made without any physical tests, such as blood tests, brain scans or X-rays.

It is time to take a stand and quit drugging our children. Let them have a life, not be turned into zombies because someone doesn't want to "put up with them."

Melanie Wertin,

Lecompton

Comments

classclown 7 years, 9 months ago

These kids don't need drugs. The only things that ail them are Wimpy Parent Syndrome and Lackofspankitus. The first leads to the onset of the latter which when left unchecked, leads to all sorts of behavioral problems.

Both diseases need to be treated though it's imperative that WPS getting treated first. For as long as the child shows the slightest symptom of WPS, then treatments for curing Lackofspankitus will not be able to take place.

lunacydetector 7 years, 9 months ago

ADHD....how does one teach another the concept of "putting the shoe on the other foot?" i am acquainted with someone with Adult ADHD, and they cannot fathom the concept. weird.

yes, everyone has to play the victim nowadays. it's everyone else's fault.

accepting responsibility for one's own actions is something they need to teach in school, and something parents need to teach their children. imagine the stress free world.

Ragingbear 7 years, 9 months ago

These meds are needed, but mainly for adults. In my life I have met very few children that made me agree that they needed medication. So often everyone wants to fix the problem with a pill instead of putting effort into it. Most ADD in kids is a mix of sugar, caffeine and allowing too many games and TV and not enough time actually doing something more productive.

On the note of mania, suicidal thoughts and whatnot. That stuff is true. I personally took an antidepressant that was causing me to have paranoid and delusional thoughts, as well as the sensation of somebody walking right behind me at all times. I eventually ended up in the hospital. Why? Because the doctor that prescribed them to me was unable to see me for 3 months after they were prescribed. Perhaps if doctors were to actually monitor their patients, as instructed by the manufacturer, this wouldn't be a problem. Instead they toss a bottle to them and try to forget it.

Those who have bipolar disorder will often go into a mania with many anti-depressants. A mania is kinda like a meth user on crack... Or is that a crack user on meth? The point is that they will become incredibly impulsive, sleep very little, lose a lot of judgment and exhibit a constant restlessness. In severe states, the sleep deprivation will set in and cause psychosis and even hallucinations. This makes some people with long-term mania appear schizophrenic, even to doctors. However, once they are on the right medications, they are able to start taking control of their lives. A person that has such a manic phase mixed with other psychiatric issues can very easily become a danger to themselves or others due to the severe mania. The bad thing is that during a manic stage, they feel alive, in control and on top of the world. While maybe 1 in 1000 become any real danger, that is made worse when a doctor is unwilling and unable to see a patient for 3 months to monitor what effects the medication is having on them.

There is an alternative. Something I do, and others do. It is called Dialectic Therapy. It's basically a way to manage impulses through tried and tested mental techniques. Such methods are useful to anyone, even if they are not diagnosed with anything. I believe that dialectic training, even for an hour a week, would solve a lot of problems in schools. Even moreso in impoverished areas with a high amount of violent crime.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Wow same old trash being offered up...And when no one can offer any links to the supposed scientific proof you spout off about I rest my case again...Funny how those against the meds have an ample supply of document links FDA source info to back up their claims... And for the parents who are medicating I find it interesting that one of the only mentioned drug aspects is Ritilan/amphetimines....You people are clueless to the rules of the drug roads..it always starts with Ritilan or Dexedrine...and then generally gets a course of Depakote added when it is not owrking or as so many claim to know.."If wrongly prescribed the kids bounce off the walls"...To take the edge off the Meth..err I mean Ritilan.... Then comes the SSRI's...and there is nothing selective about them,of course that takes a small amount of comprehending how that pill gets to all them molecules and cells in ones body......and what long term effects are then ignored or thought of as not as bad as the child not being able to focus.... "ALL we know is it works"....Hey a shot of booze would have about the same sedated effect too...And no I am not suggesting giving booze to a child. And as for being up on the current affairs and other avenues of "theory" genetic aspects are being played around with..that means mom and dad again...but those research areas are also marred by structured bias settings and leave out a full range of individuals to gain truth in the aspect of genetic markers. I believe more parents should pop a pillor two of their kids meds,and then try to comprehend it fromtheir childs point of view and ask themselves does my child have the verbal skills to relay what is really going on inside of them...???? Child is already stigmatized as being ill....What do they know...especially after they are given chemicals they are told are going to fix them....These are children with no life under their belts to refer to or from....Better living through chemistry.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

My eldest was diagnosed with ADHD last year and has been on medication. it has made a world of difference in her attitude, personality and school work. ADHD develops later in girls, and often is missed. We knew something wasn't right as her grades kept dropping. The high school tested her after the junior high wouldn't.
medication is okay as long as the situation requires it.

trinity 7 years, 9 months ago

just engaging in people-watching, as i'm fond of doing; yesterday evening i witnessed yet another example of parenting or lack thereof, that sometimes contributes to kids spinning out of control. we'd stopped at a favorite burger joint in olathe (yeah, jo co, yuk lol) and were trying to order; a decent looking lady of about 40, with two kids-a girl about 10, boy about 8...the sweet girl at the register trying to take our order, while this kid, who'd gotten bored standing by his mom, is doing jumping jack type things all along the damn counter! and mom looked at him, didn't say a damn word to him at all. such as, "hey get your toosh back over here", or "hey, don't do that". real simple stuff. but she just let it go on...and on.

domino 7 years, 9 months ago

Being the parent of 2 ADD boys - I guess I'm pretty opinionated - oldest was diagnosed as an adult (early 20's) - he was the one who pushed me to get his younger brother tested - wanted school to be easier for the younger brother who was diagnosed at about 11. I do not consider myself a wimpy parent and I never had a concern or problem with spanking any of my kids. My youngest still thinks I'm old fashioned because he the ONLY senior in his high school who has to be home by 10 on school nights and midnight on the weekends plus expecting to know where he is going and who he is going with! Both my boys benefited greatly from being on medication until they were able to learn to cope with this. It takes effort on the part of both parents and child, but it is worth it in the long run. Oldest was on meds for less than a year and the younger was on about 3 years. I think alot of that was the ability to comprehend and get a handle on their emotions, impulses etc. - it hopefully is easier as an adult, but still requires work.

One of the biggest things with ADD/ADHD is that it is not an excuse!!! An ADD/ADHD person is just as capable as anyone else to succeed. In fact, many people who are ADD/ADHD do great in the business world! They just have to surround themselves with people to finish up what they start when they go off in another direction!

I also think kids, in general are way over-mediated, but I also think when used properly, ADD/ADHD kids can do so much better when taking the lowest dose of medication that helps them. It is amazing to see how big of a change the medication can make in some kids but should not just be a blanket cure!

AmyG 7 years, 9 months ago

Great letter Melanie!

The whole U.S. needs to know about TeenScreen.

See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfU9pu...

And check out this petition with over 23,500 signatures: http://www.petitiononline.com/TScreen/petition.html

lilgloria 7 years, 9 months ago

If you look into what these drugs actually are you will find out that they are classified in the same category with the likes of morphine and heroine. How can anyone decide that giving these drugs to children is EVER a good idea? They take life away!! Don't kids have enough to deal with just trying to grow their bodies and trying to exert some control over their own environment without someone giving them a drug that lessens their awareness and ability to live and enjoy life!!!

 I honestly don't understand how so many parents can be duped by the medical/psychiatric profession.  And I am so appalled how pyschs so freely hand out prescriptions for these drugs, even in small amounts, knowing they will simply sedate them as if they were in the hospital with a real medical condition!!  KIDS ARE KIDS they are having a tough time growing up, parents!! Lots of love and understanding and listening and tons and tons of PATIENCE is the key. They are not insane nor have a "chemical imbalance in the brain".  Psychiatrists have admitted there have never been tests done to prove this "chemical imbalnce". It is a fraud.

 There ARE other answers for why your child may lack enough attention to get something done.  Come on, don't just accept what "diagnosis" is given. Don't you have more love for and faith in your kids than that?

futrhse 7 years, 9 months ago

The real insidious truth about TeenScreen can be found at the below website.

I you are an advocate of freedom of choice and the right live your own life without the FORCED HEAVY HANDED intereference and encumberance of the 'state'... BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID !!!

Ron Paul in 2008, he advocates FULL DISCLOSURE by the drug companies and Psychiatry

TEENSCREEN TRUTH! >>>>>>> http://www.teenscreentruth.com/

TheRoadBack 7 years, 9 months ago

The decision:

Medicate your child and hope the medication solves whatever YOU perceive to be the problem.

Hope your child does not get an enlarged heart that is one of the side effects of ADD/ADHD medication.

Hope your childs growth is not stunted due to the medication side effect.

Hope your child does not sell the medication at school, because ADD/ADHD drugs are the most abused drugs now in our schools. This would land your child in jail or with a criminal record until 18 at the least.

Hope your child does not committ suicide, which is another side effect.

Hope that being LABELED with a mental disorder as a child does not put a stigma on your child and make them feel different later in life or as a child now.

Hope that when your child has a negative reaction to the drug that the physician does not prescribe them an antidepressant or antipsychotic.

Hope your child can still sleep at night or a Valium type drug will be prescribed and your child WILL be addicted within 15-days.

Hope your child will still speak to you when they are older, once they realize what you did to them.

With the billions of dollars spent to try and prove ADD/ADHD exists, there is no test that can validate a chemical imbalance or any other disorder within the brain.

Give your child a chance, do not medicate.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

my child had a chance without the medication and nearly failed school. She sees a therapist at least once a month, and someone who regulates her medicine. She hasn't had any side effects other than problems falling asleep, and is not using a prescription to solve that problem.
Since she didn't have any heart problems, she won't have them with her medication.
She wants to take the medication, because she knows how much it helps her.
if she did not have ADHD, then the medication would make her hyper. Since it doesn't, I trust the diagnosis. I see the change in my kid and so does she.
My husband and I are wondering how much her life would have been different if she would have been diagnosed earlier.

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

It's weird to me that this thread has four posts made in a period of less than an hour by four posters who created their accounts today and have each only posted one comment on the forum. And they all share the same opinion.

Almost seems like one person with strong views on this topic. Maybe even obsessed? Maybe a symptom of mental illness? Maybe there's a med for that. ;-)

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

Parenting is very challenging, and the world is full of back seat drivers.

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

If you want the parents to get off the thread, consumer1, who are you going to have your dialog with? Non-parents allowed only?

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

what exactly are you referring to in your post - I was a little confused.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

domino - I was glad to hear of another parent in my situation. I hear boys with ADHD are sometimes harder to handle, and girls diagnose with ADHD a little later than boys, because the symptoms are a little different. I wish I would have gotten help for her sooner, but I didn't know what the problem was, other than her grades continued to drop. Her junior high didn't see a problem, but I am glad I was persistent. She is still learning to get organized and how to handle herself in social situations, but I can't get over the change in her.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

I have to conclude that a lot of naysayers about medicating ADHD are people without kids of their own.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

My daughter was undiagnosed for several years, and we did everything we could to help her study, make her study, and it only made her miserable and frustrated. Nothing was working. She doesn't bounce off the walls, but her brain does.
She was not successful without medication and she is successful on it. That's all I need to know.

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

Which post?

The first one was a little joke about four new posters suddenly appearing within an hour dogging on the idea of something called TeenScreen (which I've never heard of) and generally opposed to medicating kids.

The second post was a reaction to the posts by classclown, trinity and consumer1 in which they engage in a popular national pastime - parent-bashing.

You, mom_of_three, and domino came on here and briefly shared that your children have been dx'd with ADD and that medications have helped. I have no reason to believe or assume that you and domino are bad, negligent, or uncaring parents. In fact, I assume that you're good parents who want to make the best decisions possible for your kids. Probably you're not perfect, but no one is. Like the rest of us, you're doing your best with the available information. I'm sure your kids will benefit from the love and care you give them. The implication that if your children have ADD it's your fault or that if you choose medication you're too lazy to parent effectively is unfair.

I'm just tired of the idea - which I see espoused time after time on these forums - that parents are either stupid, uncaring, incompetent idiots or actively dangerous to their children. If we really want to help kids, we need to support parents, who are raising children in a complex and challenging society which frankly isn't friendly toward children.

domino 7 years, 9 months ago

lilgloria & TheRoadBack - you both really pi** me off!! Apparently, neither of you have had a child with add/adhd - granted, there are some parents who just do the "medicate and get them out of my way" but there are many good, caring parents, which I believe I am one, that do put their child on a medication like this to enable them to deal with their life.

ADD/ADHD medications are stimulants - anyone who is not ADD/ADHD and takes them is wound tighter than an eight day clock. So you ask, why doesn't this do the same thing to an ADD/ADHD child? The best way that it was explained to me was this - your cells are moving around, with molecular changes passing back and forth between cells. In an ADD/ADHD person, the cells are sluggish and not making the correct information pass between cells. When they take their medication, it stimulates the cells so the exchange of information takes place as it would in a "normal" person. This in turn calms the child down and helps them cope better.

As far as kids having a hard enough time - I totally agree - kids do have plenty, but try dealing with a child who can not sit still in class, is failing in school because they don't remember to hand daily papers in and when you ask them why, they tell you, with tears in their eyes "I don't know." and they really don't!! Try talking to a crying child who is invited to their best friends sleep over and wants to go more than anything, but is afraid to go because they still have problems with bedwetting. (Yes, that is often a symptom of ADD/ADHD - they sleep so soundly their body doesn't get the signal to wake up when their bladder is full.)

How dare you lump all parents into the catagory of "lots of love and understanding and lots of listening and tons and tons of patience" will fix this. If that was "all" it took, neither of my boys would have had a problem.

These medications are nothing to mess with and must be monitired closely, which is why doctors are only supposed to prescript 1 month at at time - no refills! Kids should not be allowed access to the medication at will - so their should be no chance of selling it or anything else. Again, parental supervision! It takes time, committment, patience, love, listening, understanding and a lot of work on a parents part to make a decision like this. Sometimes the decision is made to use medication because it IS in the best interest of the child.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

thank you for the clarification, costello.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

"is failing in school because they don't remember to hand daily papers in and when you ask them why, they tell you, with tears in their eyes "I don't know." and they really don't!!" Oh, Domino, I can so relate. My daughter didn't have problems sitting still (as boys are usually different than girls), but she couldn't make herself focus. I would ask her if she wanted to get good grades, and she said yes, and when i asked her why she didn't, she would say "I don't know."
yes, if love and encouragement would do the trick, then we would have never had a problem.

lunacydetector 7 years, 9 months ago

f.y.i. typically, though not always, if a child is diagnosed with ADHD, the chances are very high that one of their parents also has it.

GarethEllzey 7 years, 9 months ago

All too often, ADHD (a medically unproveable diagnosis) is slapped on a child or adult who has symptoms of inability to concentrate, nervousness, and difficulties in focusing. These are definitely problem symptoms; HOWEVER, before such a diagnosis is made, the child should be thoroughly tested for actual PHYSICAL diseases, such as allergies, nutritional deficiencies, reactions to chemicals in food and the environment, or reactions to excessive sugar, empty calories in fast food, and caffeine in sodas, etc. I suggest that most ADHD symptoms are attibutable to these. Two other possibilities are: 1) a very high IQ, which indicates the child bores easily while the teacher is trying to catch the slower learners up to speed. (Studies show that "ADHD" and high IQ correlate strongly!) 2) when a child's vocabulary is lacking, and s/he doesn't understand the words which frame the concepts being taught, symptoms of boredom, agitation and lack of attention follow quickly.
The bottom line is, drugs are not the answer. A thorough medical, nutritional, and educational work-up are. The fault is not parents, who usually want the best for their children, nor teachers, who try to handle two dozen very different personalities with cookie-cutter state-mandated lesson plans. Mainly the fault is the drug companies and the psychiatrists, who make a mint on these facile diagnoses.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

Oh, Gareth, you can suggest all you want, but since you don't know the testing we went through, and the diet of my kid, you can't tell me that drugs aren't the answer.
As Domino and I have said before, if you give a kid an ADHD drug, and they do not have ADHD, they will be BOUNCING off the walls. Ours do not.
The drugs, counseling and medical supervision are working in our house, and the seriousness of medication is not taken lightly.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

Some studies show that 25% of kids with ADHD have a close relative with it also. Other studies show that sugar and caffiene doesn't affect it one way or another.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 9 months ago

Increasingly, the mental health model is to medicate instead of "treat". That is what the psychiatric community (or, to be more fair - the V.A.) is doing to our war vets. They don't get the correct treatment they need for their PTSD, so they get more meds. Then when that doesn't do enough, they get more meds. Next thing you know, you have a war vet on a cocktail of meds - some of which the FDA never approved for mood disorders - and they are still in deep depression. Then they hang themselves in the garage. THAT is what is happening all over America to our war vets. Meds are the "easy" answer, and like most short cuts, they don't really give you good results (not as a treatment plan).

Class Clown: Your analysis was a little off. Kids don't just need more discipline, they need more ATTENTION. They need their parents to pay attention to their developmental needs. But, in a culture that values self-centeredness and material gain, the typical American parent is choosing hobbies and career over parenting. It's aggregious that parents in this country think it's OK for babysitters, clergy and schools to raise their children while they do "stuff".

toefungus 7 years, 9 months ago

Excuses can be short or complex, but they are still excuses.

Godot 7 years, 9 months ago

Isn't there a new study out that shows that ADHD does not interfere with learning, in the long run, and that, by the time the kids grow up, the ADHD goes away? I just heard that this past weekend.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

Well, Godot, no one said that ADHD kids don't learn. Mine would do well on tests, but if you don't learn organizational skills, homework skills, etc in high school, you will suffer miserably in college, and never land a good job to support yourself. There are other things, too, such as self-image, and peer relationships to consider also. You can not just ignore the problem and hope it goes away, because other problems will always be there.

colbern 7 years, 9 months ago

Gee....I hope the ones here that wrote about spanking, or doing other physical things to children DO NOT HAVE ANY!!!

Not the answer, people. I have a friend that I've known since Kindergarten, (we're 33 now) and her 10 year old was acting completely out of character for about 3 years. Noone knew what was wrong; the parents thought it was just acting out. They went to 7 different docs until many tests were run, and ADHD was the culprit.

Seems to me that a few of you would rather get out the belt and iron and beat your kids to death before you would believe there's something medically wrong. Sad. Very, very sad. I hope you don't have kids. The state would probably take them away.

colbern 7 years, 9 months ago

mom_of_three,

you are doing the right thing. just because someone knows of a "bad" experience with drugs, or kids w/ADHD, doesn't mean it's not right for those that actually have it. It can work wonders for some children, and adults, for that matter. You seem like a great mom. Keep the Faith, and keep up the fight.

futrhse 7 years, 9 months ago

Re: ADHD, never been proven to even exist, was voted in by a show of hands by the APA, never has been found (1st incidence) in life or at autopsy, but the psychiatric community makes a lot of $$$$$$ off drugging children. Hmmmmmmmm...follow the money!!! Between the years of 1990-2000 over 186 children DIED from the prescription of Ritalin, and another 569 were hospitalized 38 of them were life threatening. What's wrong with this picture. Canada BANNED Adderall because of 25 deaths from prescribed drugs (NOT OVERDOSES)

PARENTS: For the rest of the story go to the following website and see what the FDA, NIH and the APA aren't telling you... http://www.adhdtesting.org/compendiumpage.htm. Take a look at articles #26 and #50.

ADHD and the Meaning of Evidence Barry Turner. BA MPhil.

There are some people that are denying that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder exists. They are accused of being irresponsible, causing the condition to be underdiagnosed and even causing the sufferers of this disease to "unwittingly self medicate with illegal drugs or alcohol". If it were not for the fact that the explosion in ADHD diagnosis and treatment with stimulants such as Ritalin (Methylphenidate) represents the greatest medical catastrophe since Thalidomide these statements would be laughable.

Do the makers of such statements really believe that the millions taking Ecstasy (MDMA), and other illegal substances that are closely related to Ritalin (methylphenidate), at thousands of night-clubs every weekend, are "self medicating" because they have not been "properly diagnosed". How can a "medical scientist" say that a "disease" is underdiagnosed (based on what data?)

There is absolutely no reason why those opposed to the myth of ADHD as a disease need to justify that position. The matter is clear. It is for those who maintain the position that ADHD is a disease to adduce evidence of it. That evidence must be in the form of data collected in experimental conditions that can be validated by objective repeat studies. For the rest see below...

http://ablechild.org/documents%20and%20reports_files/adhd%20and%20the%20meaning%20of%20evidence.htm

SamMcNee 7 years, 9 months ago

Please see http://www.psychdrugdangers.com which documents the 104,980 psychiatric drug adverse reaction reports sent to the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System between 2004 and 2006 where the psychiatric drug named in the report was identified as the Primary Suspect Drug (FDA wording) responsible for the reported reaction(s) which combine into these tallies: 4,154 instances of Suicidal Ideation, 2,911 Attempted Suicides, 4,260 Completed Suicides (doesn't include the 2,911 attempts), 2,452 other Deaths not from suicide, 434 Homicidal Ideations, 195 Homicides/Murders (the act, not the death count) and 1,078 reports of Mania or Hypomania, 1,123 occurrences of Diabetes attributed to taking Zyprexa, 5,253 instances of Drug (SSRI) Withdrawal Syndrome linked to Paroxetine (Paxil / Seroxat) which is an often intolerable set of withdrawal reactions that make it extremely difficult or impossible for a patient to discontinue use of an SSRI (Celexa, Lexapro, Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, etc), Tardive Dyskinesia, tremor and other movement disorders, cardiac arrest, convulsions, insomnia, somnolence (the opposite), dizziness, nausea, anxiety, depression, seizures - hundreds of thousands of adverse reactions attributed to psychiatric drug medications as reported to the FDA in 104,980 Individual Safety Reports - that's 95 new reports each and every day.

GuardChica 7 years, 9 months ago

The key thing to remember is that a prescription is not a quick fix. Yes, for many people antidepressants can help even out one's mood, but that doesn't automatically preclude any maniac depressed episodes altogether. Giving someone antidepressants and then forgetting there was a problem is a problem because with lower awareness by others, bad days are more likely to get worse.

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

For those that are parent bashing - that's wrong - Give that bashing to the Psychs that prescribe these drugs with no medical tests.

I am a Mom. I have also studied the data about ADHD drugs, and there ARE alternatives to the medications. I know what it's like to need help with your kids when you don't know how to handle a situation like Mom of Three with her daughter's dropping grades. There is help out there that is not drugging your kids on drugs that have harmful and dangerous side effects.

Mom of Three, what is worst, suicide, poor health, violence - or having her tutored and her confusions in her subjects in school found and sorted out? I'm not targetting you. Just letting you know there's a way without harming your child with the drugs.

  1. Watch the video on UTube for what the kids say.
  2. Get the Book "No More ADHD" by Dr. Mary Ann Block. (I am not an agent, just a mom who thinks this book has the answers we need)

Meg

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Oh my I just realized my first post must have been refered back to the site to be found "offensive" and pulled... A shame those who do such things cannot engage those they find offense with... May I ask was it the arrogant nature or tone of my post...???? My claim of no one being able to supply me with links to the scientific proof you all claim..???? Was it my reference to ADHD and most of the DSM being of theorical nature..and that is not science but speculation? Could it be that I refered to,and then pointed out the very words of Pharma and the pill pushers attached and spouted about these medications and diagnosis' as being words that define a religion by the english language and Websters...? You know them three;"Think Feel Believe" What is it with people...afraid of maybe being wrong...? And those of us who have been down such roads with our children,simply did not buy into this theory of chemical imbalance,or when we did found no improvement,or worsening conditions...and then we dug for ourselves instead of simply going along with the flow...????? We do not do this in denial of anything..we do this because we care beyond our own families,we care beyond the scope of "self".... I believe another letter to the editor is in order here......Then you can comment away...but the original statement you found offense with shall be seen and heard by others who may not want to jump upon your bandwagon or theory of thought. I too take offense,of posts done in ignorance...Yet I am secure enough to allow others to be the judge of what is being shared,and pray rational critcal thought be applied Take Care All

allateup 7 years, 9 months ago

I have to agree with a lot of posters here...we should not being drugging our children.

mom of three----did you ever try classroom modifications for your daughter? Everytime a teacher tried to suggest my daughter maybe ADD I told them that we would not medicate her for it and we prefer classroom modifications. It's worked VERY well for us!

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

This is addressed to Colbern's last post - What is medical about ADHD? There are no medical tests for it. It's a 100% subjective diagnosis.

(I should add here that Psychs are now admitting that even the criteria for ADHD varies from Psych to Psych)

Meg

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

A caring parent has to wade through all the information out there (some of it excellent, some of it nonsense) about ADHD (or whatever behavior issue or mental illness her child may or may not be suffering from), medications, alternatives to medications, etc., etc., etc., then try to make the best decision she can based on the information available to her, her observations of her own children, and her own best judgement. She has to become a minor expert on her child's problems. She has to sort through tons of information, much of it given by "experts" who have a stake in her taking their advice and buying their product - and it isn't only the drug companies making profits, btw. Even when she's satisfied that a given expert is truly an expert and not just some salesman with a website and a good pitch, she can find another legitimate expert with a totally different point of view from the first expert. Sometimes she can find a half dozen experts, all with forums full of "groupies" who insist that their chosen expert has the only good answer.

She loves her child and wants to help him. She makes a decision based on what she believes is the best available information. BUT... no matter what she decides to do, no matter which way she turns, she encounters people with no information about her children or her situation who tell her she made the wrong decision. She's harming her child. She's probably lazy and stupid, possibly even hates her child. She's ignored the obvious answer. She doesn't want to do the hard work necessary to parent. Why in fact did she have children if she didn't wish to parent them? She's a wimpy parent who can't stomach beating her kid. Or she's so self-centered and preoccupied with her own selfish needs that she refuses to spend half her day preparing special meals because no doubt her child's behavior is the result of food allergies. Or she's not giving her child enough attention. Or not scolding him enough. People can't even go into fast food places without being annoyed by children acting like children anymore, for heaven's sake! Or maybe she scolds him too much. Kids should be allowed to be kids. Probably the state should step in and remove her child.

Honestly, it's a wonder anyone wants to parent at all anymore. The smart money is on staying childless.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

For those un-aware of the term Teen Screen pray it does not come to your school. Developed at Columbia University,this faulty quick test,often slipped in with out a parents permission is suppose to diagnose if your child is going to be prone to suicidal tendencies.....Sadly the pushers of this garbage survey fail to reveal it has a 78% False Positive outcome to those given it...Their website has been coming under fire from numerous states and schooldsitricts they claim are suing this survey/test....Because they are not,that is using it,and that based upon the false positive aspect...and of course their failure to disclose this to those they try to sell it upon. Minnesota was peparing earlier this year to pass a law requiring it to be implimented in all schools,until it was brought to the attention of the very woman who was propsing this bill get ratified and voted into law..... When she saw for herself instead of simply knee jerking into theorized claims of another undiagnosed epidemic of mental illness in america...she herself went before the entire voting body and simply stated;"We have been Lied to". The Bill was tossed where it belongs...in the trash. For those upon this board making such remarks as others "if" they would have children that the state would take them away..be aware the majority of children who do end up state care end up on drugs as in prescribed meds...and not one..but several,it's called polypharma prescribing,what they are given are FDA aproved for children,they are "off label" prescribed and simply for a known side effect of sedation. It has been shown that polypharma is almost a 100% guarantee for adverse reaction(s) being demonstrated..That then encourages the pillpushers to add a few more diagnosis to the child,and play more lab rat games with them. Take Care All

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Costello, I actually agree with most of your points.

People shouldn't be targetting the parents, when

Hasn't anyone wondered why the FDA has continued to allow ADHD drugs to stay on the market, considering the statistics? Folks, you can't ignore that fact that almost every school shooting has been linked to these drugs or psychotropics.

It makes me wonder. Don't you?

Meg

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Sorry need to correct myself the meds given to children are "NOT" FDA aproved for children..And states and schools are not "sueing" Teen Screen (yet) They are upset that Teen Screen has claimed they are "using" the program when in "truth " they are not. That alone should be a major red flag as it being the physical actions,and a reflection of the industry as a whole since others with in do not speak out against...it is a "religion" of thought period..No science..theorized religion. Again I ask...show me the links to the science you are claiming......No one has yet in over 8 years to me personally.... "Tell a big enough lie long enough,eventually it will be believed as truth" (Adolph Hitler) And please before anyone gets their undies in a knot,try and understand that I use that quote to demonstrate the actions(physical/seen) reflected by the mental mindset of the individual and the simply actions demonstrated and reflected in that persons life we all know all too well. Hitler did the same thing to the people...told them it was all for the best interest of the children. Take Care All

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

Meg: Honestly, I haven't done any research on the statistics about ADHD drugs. I just don't think it's helpful for anonymous posters on public forums to offer unsolicited advice to people like mom_of_three. She knows her child. Her child is under the care of a doctor. She doesn't need my help or the help of others here - some of whom have obvious agendas.

My own son is adopted from foster care. He came to me three years ago with a dx of ADHD and on Adderall. It eventually became clear that he didn't have ADHD but far more serious issues. He was taken off Adderall and put on Depakote and Concerta while in a hospital. The Adderall and Concerta never seemed to make a bit of difference to his behavior. I got him neurotherapy and now - at age 16 - he's off the Depakote and doing fairly well. He receives therapy and continues to heal from past traumas. I continue to research his problems and look for ways to help him. If at some time I believe medication will help, I'll put him on medication.

Am I opposed to psychotropic meds? No. If they help the child, then they should be used with the consent of the parents and under the supervision of a psychiatrist. If appropriate alternatives are available they should be explored. Sometimes a medication only needs to be used temporarily to get a child through a bad patch. I know quite a few parents who have adopted from foster care, and sometimes the child's anxiety is so high that he needs a small amount of medication to help him manage his behaviors well enough to benefit from therapy or other interventions.

Am I surprised that psychotropic meds may be linked to school shootings? No. To my mind it only shows that caring parents and/or teachers noticed that the children involved in the shootings were struggling and tried to get them help. I don't find it surprising at all that a child who shoots up a school had a history of behavior problems. Someone tried to intervene - obviously unsuccessfully. Maybe in other cases - the ones that don't make the paper - the interventions, possibly including medication, helped the child.

If it's true that vast numbers of children are being medicated unnecessarily, and if it's also true that psychotropic medications cause children to shoot up schools, shouldn't we be seeing a lot more school shootings than we are?

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

In reply to the "whys" of the lack of FDA involvement .The NIH (National Institue Of Health) just offerd up big bucks to do studies on adverse reactions to all these wonderfully FDA aproved drugs...Now just for a moment ponder this ...WHY ???? "IF" these drugs are aproved then why go back..? Can it be as we are seeing all over the headlines Pharma has not been all that forth coming with complete facts on their claimed research into these meds they create simply to keep an active market and cash coming in.? And of course avoid class actions lawsuites. Now for again an attempt to post and share some relevent truth...prior to the skull and cross bones (Black Box labeling of increased suicidal tendencies) The words on those required by law med sheets that come with each bottle of pills,would use the words emotional labilty...that is "psych speak" for suicidal tendancies...But if you were to read that you might not be so quick to find the fix with in that bottle of chemicals would you..? And that is at aproved dosage for the meds...not extreme or over dose aspects.... As for Ritilan being in one prescription a month issuances it is because the DEA has it labeled as a controled substance liable for abuse by the user...And pharmacuetical grade speed is big bucks on the street....A lot more than Pharma can stick to Medicaid on any given day..another reason the push is on for SSRI's and other non-regulated by the DEA drugs....They are not classified as substances of abuse..yet are all clearly labeled; "Do not stop abruptly"..Again I ask why if they are so safe...??? Again because they do know how much they alter the thought of the person taking them..these are not aspirins..these are chemical lobotomies. The chemical imbalance starts when one starts the meds..not the other way around. And please again before some one gets bent over the word choice..go get educated on the actual functioning abilities of those who have been lobotomized..just like one can have a functioning alcoholic,one can and do find functioning drug addicts until of course the organic aspect of the body deteriorates and leads to further altered mental aspects of ones life...That word psychosis some one shared above...Believe that is what Sigmund died of in a insane asylum,cocaine psychosis...Yep the father of modern psychoanalysis... the head upon the pedestal...The one who was professed wise so many jumped on board with..today they try to shove him back in the closet and pretend they are not where we are today and make us believe we would still be so even if he did not exsit...Yeah Right. Take Care All

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Hmmm.... Behavioral problems---->psychiatrist----->drugs.

What about Behavioral problems---->Diet and Medical/Blood tests and examination of comprehension problems in school due to unhandled confusions and difficulties----->learning problems resolved with good tutoring and proper diets with restricted sugar, trans fats and chemicals from preservatives, endocrine imbalances.

They will never know since they didn't do the medical tests, now will they?

Guys, when was the last time someone was cured rather than have the symptoms suppressed?

Meg

Katara 7 years, 9 months ago

Jeez, Dots, sounds like you have an admirer or two. You certainly attract interesting people here.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

OK back to Pharmas own words again and maybe a little reflection on "Adopted Children"..These children if one does the research,are as a majority coming into the adoption aspect of things via the social service system...those "people who see problems"..child gets removed and generally placed in either a group or foster care setting...and child finds what? A whole bunch of other kids with their own baggage and agendas....child acts out,child gets sedated..oops I mean mentally adjusted with chemicals because child is no longer with birth parents child is now liable to the state of abduction. Again packaging warnings; Adverse and or abnormal thinking or thoughts..Again from the aproved prescribed dosages......And as one here is posting..."teachers" playing outside of that "License" aspect of things. And suggesting child is ADD/ADHD/ODD/BI-Polar/Schitzo...etc. Schools have on board psychologists too these days...to retain employement during a slow season..ie. no school shootings or major tragedies that might effect childrens emotions where their expertese comes into play..This new field of excuses has emerged upon the horizon,lots of them attended like classes with those who now are psychiatrists...they need work too and talk shop all the time... Psychologist knows if there is no need of their services school may cut funding and lose job end up at Mc Clowns and have had wasted all those years getting smart and licensed...Once again the religion of thought and job security comes into play......And of course the need for further services....interventions..removal from birth parents and many time on simply a annonomous call to CPS...And in several years the child has been bounced around,has no true basis of family let alone self,and simply acts as those they are warehoused with. Which again by stats are mostly medicated children in understaffed facilities that offer maybe an hour a day of true one on one time to meet state and federal guidelines...Or with children with autism or organically based illness...children cannot comprehend as adults would like them to,especially when their brain chemistry(?) has been chemically altered via outside sources..... What does the adoptive parent get..not the $5,000 federal incentive to adopt that child,that goes to CPS...No they end up with a child that has more issues and has dealt with more than any child should..some ones way of getting a buck...live stock...Human Trafficketing....

Take Care All

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

Thank you to those who offered support.
allateup - you never said whether your daughter was tested. Mine was.
And yes, we tried classroom modifications, and home modifications, before we knew the actual diagnosis. She was in junior high and high school, and it wasn't a behavior problem. She struggled in school for 3 1/2 years before the school finally tested her, a diagnosis from the school and a then a professional diagnosis. We did not take this decision to medicate lightly. We watch her constantly. We know the risks, and so does she. She speaks to a therapist on a regular basis.
The first thing my mother said to me was "I hope she won't be a zombie" And she was the first person to say "I can't believe the difference." And my daughter is a much happier person, knowing what is wrong with her, and the drug able to make a difference. One drug, people, one drug.
This is the right thing to do in her situation, and no one situation is the same. If you can fix your kid without drugs, than fine. But I support my decision. But walk in my shoes first before you disagree.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

To the poster that mentioned Depakote(Valproic Acid) That is the standard given to children that Ritilan alone is not working upon....or to take off the edge of the Ritilan..you know that bouncing off the wall stuff(worsening condition,adverse side effects) Google Valproic Acid,look for a link to a pdf from IPCS INCHEM Believe they are a Canadian source/site. Read through the Latin Med Speak of what researchers discovered in animal trials and compare that to Depakote packaging labels for that "Epilepsy Drug". Yep "off label" prescribing again...and by permitting such things to be done to your child you have willingly consented and enrolled into a non-sanctioned,non-licensed drug experiment and your child is the lab rat....at the discretion of the prescriber. See if after reading that pdf you can find any mention of cancer causing possibilites in using Depakote....the findings are in the animal studies,and noted as being not of significance...Of course in Med Speak the words subcutaneous lesions etc.. are employed. Any one up on definitions of cancers...????? Wow we have reached a point in history and society in this nation where one not only needs to have backgrounds in medicine but psychology,psychiatry,and pharmacology..and it might not hurt to also be up on ones Latin,and Constitutional Law too....Be prepared to also learn to defends one self in a court of law....And all to raise a child. Take Care All

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Mom of Three..you say the one drug fixed your daughter....May I ask then why does she need to see a therapist...??? If this problem has been diagnosed,you see the day and night difference,and all do to a need to improve the grades in school..what then purpose dose the therapist actually serve..? Or is this a education tutor..? Take care

coolmom 7 years, 9 months ago

we are adopting a 14 yo girl diagnosed adhd from very young we got her and took her off everything for over a year and did weekly counciling, tutoring, summer school, sports, love and when all else failed we did the lowest dose of adderal and the results were dramatic. we still do weekly counciling, tutoring etc and this grade card was the first without D's or F's. we had her tested for everything they could think of and more including brain scans, eeg's, ekg's, heavy metal teasting, poisons, diet etc. we never medicated lightly and now she is happier, healthier etc.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

How many here ever contemplate that like Teflon these chemicals are not expelled from the body completely..??? That they accumulate over time...? That it has been shown that the adverse side effects do linger upwards of 5 years and more after last dose taken....That dramatic changes have been shown via a chelatin method of flushing these chemicals out of the body... And there are only a handfull of places,Mayo Clinic being one that is up on all of this..? Cool mom you state you took her off everything for over a year...But how long did it take to ween her off prior to that years time..? What is that childs drug history,bounced around on various meds or families of meds in her time prior to you obtaining her..? How young is young when you state she was diagnosed at a young age..? I guess I ask such questions simply out of question as to the organic source that came about and brought us to these epidemic claimed proportions of mental illness...where were they in say the 60's and the 70's..??? What has really changed that has us where we are now today..? Take Care All

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Cool Mom

That's awesome that you tried all of those solutions.

Regretably, due to the time she was on the meds, the damage was already done to her mentally and physically. That is so sad.

Meg

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Meg another aspect being ignored is the history prior to this adoption..ie. the number of placements,the types of placements..ie. group home,evaluation cneters...which by the by for those uninformed in their operations have generally one minamally skilled therapist who again themsleves are single no children of their own,or very young who are placed in daycares so parent(s) can work to make ends meet....Have a hand full of "para-professionals" with about say 12 -15 hours of training so they can recirte the motto of the center well and follow a written set of guidelines..education requirements being a High School Diploma or GED. And large administartion staff to dot the I's cross the T's upon the funding aplications. And a "contracted" once a month visitor who can write scripts...and that pill pusher spends about 20 minutes..maybe an hour with each child and if fortunate the therapist prsent who also does maybe an hour a day individually (any one keeping track of real time spent with these children by the profesionals..? And relying mostly upon the grunts..err I mean staff of babysitters..err I mean para-professionals and their day and a half of training...And for the most part they are either college kids who don't want to wear a McClown suite while going to frat parties...or single adults who believe such digs are an easy paycheck.....like most 14 year old gilrs who do a babysitting gig. Oh yeah those sript writers don't even have to be in the same state,they sorta fly about the country and hire out tothe highest bidder. By one Adoption/eval center in North Carolina's own claims...there are apx. 800 child psychaitrists in the whole USA...now go crunch those numbers dividing by 50.....Quality of care...I think not. About the only common denominator I keep finding is the destruction of the american family unit here..Any one else..??? Take Care All

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

To add to other numbers offered here..there are at any given time now in the US close to 1/2 million children in foster care..that is state custody for those un-familiar with what really goes on here...that rarely leads to re-unification with birth parents and after milking the funding for say 4 to 5 years these children like the slaves prior to the civl war get sent off to "adoption days" or placed upon web sites like any other item up for bids...Can't wait until we find them On E-bay. And like choosing a car,sadly in this case pre-owned...the buyer best beware because you never know what you are getting into with out full disclosure as many foster/adopted parents soon discover when CPS does not fill in all the blanks or tends to forget all the details....Hmm sounds like the actions of Big Pharma...and the pill pushers.... Yep great way to earn a buck. Any one interested in the Pharma aspect of things try these sites. www,breggin.com www.chaada.org www.ahrp.org For the CPS/Medicaid abuse etc angle start with www.familyrights.us...there are many links there.... And anyone seeking more info on Teen Screen (coming to a school near you soon) Google; "Parents_Against _Teenscreen" they seem to have the best leg up on that one indivdual topic... Take Care All

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Lostsheep,

Hey, you're preaching to the choir here.

I oppose Psychiatry in general. People really should get the DVD Documentary - Psychiatry: an Industry of Death and get the facts on the history of Psychiatry since it's inception by Father Freud, as well as how Psychs now freely admit that they can't cure anyone and the drugs are their solution to that. There is no end to the things that are being added to their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as "disorders" that each has a drug for (thanks to their alliances with Big Pharma).

Did you know that there is a measure on the floor of the house right now to approve all 374 "disorders" in the manual for inclusion in allowable diagnosis for Medicare? (At the moment, I believe it's only 180 of them that Medicare recognize as valid).

Despite Black Box labeling, parents are still willing to give these to little children who can't fight back against what is being done to them in the name of "behavioral disorders".

It burns me.

Meg

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

I should add that they are also admitting that ADHD has no medical basis.

It's all about the money.

Meg

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Obviously you did or are you just guessing at total words used..???? Seems not too many here get the simple picture so often a mural needs to be painted for others to get a bigger picture of what all is going on. Hmmm I just thought of something amusing...you are accusing the rest here of being ADD and not able to focus long enough on any subject or topic... Ritilan for everyone!!!! No wonder Pharma and their associates have such an easy time BS ing this nation.....Lazy and looking for the easy way out as always..yep that defines America. Take care All

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Ka-Ching!!!!! Yes and also to stupify the general public further...cause them youngins coming along might actually question things disagree with the powers to be..stage a few protests,and we shall have The Democratic convention of 68 back on our hands all over the place,like the sympathy riots for Rodney King... As for the choir....well I bet at least one person today is actually thinking instead of being lead around on their leash...and maybe it will come down to the aspect of money that gets the attention of the greed seekers in this nation come tax time again...No matter who ends up in the Oval Eye. Thanks for mentioning the new desire to include other DSM claims to Medicaid/Medicare...Ka-ching from every ones pockets here.....Before you know it MBP will be a bonafide disorder in their "bible" too..Irregardless of what is/has happened to it's creator Sir Roy Meadows over in England..oops bet I get a reeming for mentioning that one too...LOL Take care

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Meg funny you mention the never ending adding of listings in the DSM. Several years back had a great review meeting at one of the great warehouses CPS sent my son away to...I was hoping to at least get him away from the other pill pusher who of course could never supply me with what I asked for..ie proof of his brand of religion.....And then came to learn he hired out to this place too...That made 8 different locations and his private practice. Anyhow the Psychologist they had him seeing,third one in under a year(so much for consistency) declares after speeking with Doc Happyslap with the pills,and a little side job promoting Shire US Adderall XR to the staff at these various places he contracted to....Declares there is a brand new ailment...it fits your son to a T..and they just discovered it two weeks ago. Nope he knew not the name..but promised to get back to me...(I'm still waiting going on lets see 3 years...Nuerological disorder)..I said then why is he not seeing a nuerologist...??? No answer only blank stares at the floor...Gotcha. Yeah what racket wish I had thought it up..but I enjoy sleeping with a clear mind at night. Take Care.

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

At this point "trained and licensed" doesn't really mean anything when by your statement, the diagnosis can vary from "professional" to "professional', which is why ADHD gets mis-diagnosed and over-diagnosed. The test you mention is subjective, and completely open to interpretation by the interpreter. It is therefore not a science and any diagnosis is non-scientific. I don't see how you can sit there and say a subjective test with evaluation is scientific or even a medical test.

For me, Dotlines, it all comes back to the fact that psychs go to medical school for 12 years so they don't have to do any medical tests and can just write a prescription.

ADHD and other disorders now being listed in the DSM are FRAUDULENT and documentation has proven that they have no basis other than more ways to milk the public who have trusted them due to those precious Licenses. You have to see the DVD. It shows Psychs actually describing the way they get "disorders" into the manual.

Meg

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Oh I knew we had at least one of you on board...OK and don't you dare ask for this one to be removed because it offends either...Dish I want links to all this research you are claiming,Please let me see what you are offering in these tests for myself...Been down this road too many times in the last 8 years... As for your feelings of mine towards your industry as a whole you betch no love for it..I must admit you are one of a select few who is now making any sort of claim of over diagnosing of ADD/ADHD...of course as it was pointed out by others...there is also admittence of no viable diagnosis. I gave my link to the Valproic Acid info,and all I have found was it's original creation for Seizure,as in epileptic....U-tube I do not do,have no time for it,unless it is of this nature and those I desire only from a reputable source. As for your take on being all over the place..that is how wide spread the industry of yours has reached into..sorry I did not embrace it was thrown into it by circumstance. And I have had to deal with it from more than a simple aspect in any way shape or form. Now to get back to where you were I believe attempting to head off to...may I have a decent explanation of why say Lillie SSRI's are any really different than say Pfizers..??? out side of a few molecules that allow for patent exclusive priviledge..??? Thanks for at least being honest with your occupation to an extent.

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Dotlines, you keep using the term efficacy (efficient in creating a desired result) - how can you sit there and say they have efficacy when all they are doing is suppressing the symptoms and inhibiting brain function? The only desired result I see is suppression of the symptoms with harmful chemicals. What medical test was done that has proven that behavioral problems of this nature are caused by seratonin special reuptake? All that was found was that SSRIs sedate people into false belief that everything is fine in their world while doing things like causing Insomnia, weight gain, and sexual dysfunction. What a great trade-off!

Again I ask what medical test determined that the person being prescribed had a problem with loss of serotonin?

Meg

megadari 7 years, 9 months ago

Dotlines, where is the clinical study?

Meg

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

The therapist was the one who professionally diagnosed her ADHD and she sees her therapist to help her understand her ADHD, and to help her self image, which was hurt during those three years. Her physcian referred us to a therapist, who looked at all the testing we had done, and did further testing. Her therapist deals with ADHD kids and we are very comfortable with who she goes to.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

for all of you who are providing support, thank you. rodentgirl16, thank you very much and best of luck to you.
and to the rest of you, walk a mile in our shoes.....

Wilbur_Nether 7 years, 9 months ago

classclown wrote: "These kids don't need drugs. The only things that ail them are Wimpy Parent Syndrome and Lackofspankitus. The first leads to the onset of the latter which when left unchecked, leads to all sorts of behavioral problems. Both diseases need to be treated...."

Thank you, Dr. clown.

Robert_Gartner 7 years, 9 months ago

If these kids are having problems its because they dont have two parents to come home to. Most of the fathers in this country have been cast out. Simple answer: shared parenting.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

Robert - what the heck are you talking about? It certainly doesn't apply to our situation.

mom_of_three 7 years, 9 months ago

CCHR was formed by the Church of Scientology. enough said.

Keith 7 years, 9 months ago

I was beginning to wonder when you all would figure out who your debate partners were.

angelheart55lpn 7 years, 9 months ago

FOR MY CASSANDRA

I have personally lived this nightmare, and a messed up system, my daughter has endured, she has been on meds from Jan 2003 and right now, current meds are prozac, lithium, seroquel, and topamax, now diagnosed Bi-Polar, this started out as a child whose behaviors were uncontrollable, who was court ordered to see a psychiatrist and a therapist in 2003, these appts led to many trial and errors with different meds, psychotropics, antidepressants, and anticonvulsants, also many hospitalizations in behavorial units, locked in, tied, strapped, and kept away from her family who loved her, until she was stable, what is stable, drugging a child, to a state of being a zombie, when she looked at you it was if she looked right through you. And when the truth came out,its totally ignored, why, special needs child`` and what actually happened with my daughter in complete blindness of everyone, she was given illegal drugs, alcohol, and possibly being sexual active on the internet, when this evidence came forward and witnesses, it all went away, after I was told to protect her I needed to let the state put her in specialized foster care, and all it has done is make her endure more with in a system-2 more long years, because once I made that chose it entitled the system to make their moves and I swear on a stack of BIBLES, and God as my witness, they did it, they have succeeded in medicating her with numerous meds, in the last 2 years clonidine ( I asked them to take her blood pressure, went to court I scared her and then the judge ordered I never ask about her meds again-give me a break she was 16yrs old), she has been on strattera, geodon, risperdal, ativan, trileptal, celexa, paxil, zyprexa, concerta, depakote, remeron, zonegran, effexor XR, adderall and then now like before Lithium, seroquel, prozac, and topamax. When she went into state care she had a seizure disorder, when she comes home Dec 11, 2007, I can only pray for my daughters future SINCE SHE WAS A HUMAN GUINEA PIG---- I wONDER IF COVERING UP THE ABUSE SHE HAS ENDURED THE LAST 2 YEARS AND THE ABUSE THAT EVIDENTLY WAS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN BACK WHEN HER BEHAVIORS CHANGED AT 12 YEARS OF AGE, WAS IT REALLY WORTH IT? DO CHILDREN HAVE TO PAY A PRICE. WE MISSED YEARS I CAN NEVER REPLACE, AND I WONDER IF SHE WILL EVER FORGIVE ME FOR BELIEVING IN A SYSTEM WHO PROMISED HER SAFETY, AFTER WHAT SHE HAS LIVED. I AM TOTALLY AMAZED ALSO, AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT ENTITIES WONT STEP FORWARD ONCE THE TRUTH CAME OUT, WHY ARE THEY SO ASHAMED? I hold them as accountable as the agencies who are in place to protect our children. If they dont know what they are doing, then stop. I seen my daughter the other day, she is skinny, her hair is very thin, and her face looked shallow and this is a agency who is protecting her---the way i see it they have abused her and medically neglected her needs. HUGS---NOT DRUGS parental alienation--our children want to come home I WILL NEVER FORGET

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

As I stated earlier one can see with the most recent post from Angelheart how the indusrty has imbedded itself in many aspects of society...For those who do not the Scientology aspect...and why is beyond me..for again I will also state when I do not see the words "Think,Feel,Believe" used by Pharma on their very own packaging..I will stop refering to it in action as a religion. May I suggest then the following site; www.ahrp.org or www.breggin.com The first link is a well laid out site easy to navigate etc.....If it's a topic on Pharma it generally will be there.. As for the lack of general public access to the research data I can only question why...???? Why are they so insecure...??? Meg again brings to light another good point on the topic of the SSRI implied name...and echo's a tad what I was getting at.....These chemicals end up going through ones whole body,not some magic carpet ride to the selected area of supposed theorized need...There is nothing selective about those pills to get from point A to point B..Right..??? The fact you have mentioned the need for monitoring other body functions becomes indicative of what again...safe what.? Do I dare ask if "Dot" you yourself have invested the time to look over the research your self personally..??? Wouldn't one desire their prescriber to do that little bit..? And if one believes once CPS gets involved you retain rights..read Angels post again,then go to ahrp,and search the name Carol Strayhorn out of Texas and read her findings and report of the system that is suppose to protect children..and who was the biggest prescriber of meds to children...a radiologist....I believe Dot yo made mention of specialists prescribing too..???

futrhse 7 years, 9 months ago

Referencing little known data regarding the dangers of ADHD prescribed drugs taken in doctor/patient prescribed amounts. NOT OVERDOSES.

Parents, ask yourself how much different would your decision to drug your child be if you knew the 'research' supporting the 'safety and effectiveness' of your child's ADHD drug was based in total criminal FRAUD?

See below.

"All truth passes through three stages:

First it is Ridiculed.

Second, it is Violently Opposed.

Third, it is Accepted as being Self-Evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer (1778-1860)


ALL the below can be found at: http://www.adhdtesting.org/compendiumpage.htm

26 The Case Against Diagnosis and Treatment of ADHD and Related Disorders and their Treatment with Stimulants - Dr. Fred Baughman's address to the "Council of Europe" openly exposing the Fraud of ADHD. This document summarizes the 186+ deaths and 569 hospitalizations KNOWN by the FDA MedWatch group between 1990-2000. (estimated by FDA MedWatch to be only . 1 - 1% of the total potential for harm).

Rerferencing Dr. Baughmans tretise above:

The following children are no longer hyperactive or inattentive--they are dead. Between 1994 and the present I have been consulted, medically or legally, formally

        or informally, in the following death cases.

       Stephanie Hall, 11 y.o., Canton, OH.  "ADHD," Ritalin,  cardiac arrhythmia.

Matthew Smith, 13 y.o., Clawson, MI. "ADHD," Ritalin, cardiomyopathy.

Macauley Showalter, 7 y.o. Ritalin and 3 other psychiatric drugs. Cardiac arrest.

Travis Neal 13 y.o., Chattanooga, TN. Ritalin, cardiomyopathy

Randy Steel, 9 y.o. San Antonio, TX. Dexedrine + several drugs, cardiac arrest.

Cameron Pettus, 12 y.o, Austin, TX. Desipramine, hyper-eosinophilic syndrome.

In the Ventura County (California) Star, Friday, October 19, 2001, we learned of another such death. The article read:

"California heart death of 17 year old Ritalin case:Ventura High teen's death a mystery, tests pending. Many mourn popular senior found dead in bed by stepbrother at Oxnard home:She functioned with attention deficit disorder (ADD) all her life. From age 10, she was on Ritalin for three years before she was taken off it because it caused severe heart problems."

This is a high price to pay for the 'treatment' of a 'disease' that does not exist. Much to the liking of the psycho-pharm cartel, we, in the US, have no nation-wide data- gathering system that allows us to know the exact number of Ritalin-induced deaths, or, of those induced by any other psychiatric medications.

futrhse 7 years, 9 months ago

Part II.

50 Ritalin Research Fraud - The below sites all have to do with the initial research done to 'validate' Ritalin's 'usefulness', when in fact most, if not all of the research is steeped in fraud and the lead researcher who touted all its 'benefits' was found to have falsified his research findings and was indicted, prosecuted, convicted, and subsequently imprisoned. Read more: ...... Dr. Stephen Breuning, the psychologist who first researched the "medication", pled guilty in US Federal Court (9/89) to falsifying his findings.....). As a parent ask yourself how much different would your decision to drug your child be if you knew this was the kind of 'research' supporting the 'safety and effectiveness' of your child's 'wonderdrug'?

Also, please refer to article #26 above acquired from Freedom of Information Act/Law (FOIL), as it exposes the deaths and hospitalizations the FDA has kept hidden from the American public which are directly

attributed to methylphenidate (all forms of it including Ritalin, Ritalin XR, Metadate, Focalin, and Concerta).

MASTER SEARCH SITE

http://search.earthlink.net/search?q=%3FStephen+Breuning%3F+&area=earthlink-ws&channel=narrowband

All of the below articles are located at this master search site.

Perspectives on the Professions Yet another story reported that Stephen E. Breuning, a researcher who had falsified some government-funded drug treatment studies, had been sentenced by a...

p>Howtolearn.com - How to Learn Anything... FAST!!!

Rise in Ritalin prescriptions coincided directly with Stephen Breuning's, MD, Although much of his work was fabricated and Dr. Breuning received a ...

http://www.howtolearn.com/foodintro.html

The impact of fraudulent research on the scientific literature ...

The authors evaluated citations to 20 publications by Stephen Breuning, who was convicted of scientific fraud in 1988. Breuning's work had a very high ...

The Ethical Conduct of Research

"The author outlines the charges of misconduct against Dr. Stephen Breuning, ... The failure of two universities to aggressively investigate Dr. Breuning, ...

Ritalin Fraud

Dr. Stephen Breuning was, indeed, convicted of "academic fraud-related charges" in the United States District Court of the District of Maryland on November ...

Online Ethics Center: Ethics in the Science Classroom-Case Study 1 ...

... the fraudulent research of Dr. Stephen Breuning.53 Breuning fabricated data ... Despite Breuning's admission of fabricating data only three months after

[PDF] Alternative Solutions to ADHD and Learning Disability Symptoms

Stephen Breuning's, MD, fraudulent but significantly. influential work "proving" that stimulant drugs such as. Ritalin were solutions for hyperactivity. ...

http://www.ideallives.com/downloads.php?a=dl&fid=27

Reference site: http://www.adhdtesting.org/compendiumpage.htm

beatrice 7 years, 9 months ago

So it is guns OR not pushing drugs? Why not both? If only our politicians weren't so afraid of the lobbying force of the NRA. Make registration and training mandatory for gun ownership, where you don't get the weapon until you pass all courses, and enforce serious penalties for all others. Have a gun that isn't registered -- spend years in prison. Use a gun while committing a crime -- how about 15 - 20 years, automatically. Kill someone with a gun and the best you can hope for is life without parole, although the death penalty would be better. This way, we aren't taking away anyone's rights to gun ownership and we aren't having to pry a gun from anyone's cold, dead hand, but we are punishing the criminals. It would help stem the flow of guns through our streets that are too easy for anyone to get, including the insane.

If only our judges weren't so afraid of the NRA we might be able to do something to clean up our streets.

So stop the pushing of drugs to solve all of life's ups and downs, absolutely. But don't then choose to do nothing about the guns.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Uhm gun control,,??? I believe Washington DC has had a ban for years,and still rates as one of the highest murder capitols in the nation....Why stop with guns..how about drunk drivers too? Not only are they a danger to themsleves (undiagnosed suicidal tendencies) but they then also infringe upon the rest of us...Hey lets get that global warming Guru /Inventer of the Internet/nobel prize winner (delusons of granduer) Al Gore for all those corporate private jet flights around the world to tell us how bad we polluters really are. Maybe we can at least get him to turn off a few lights in that small town he calls a home..you know lead by example. Gun control does not work,in the late sixties one could order through the mail military surplus carbines (assault weapons to be Politically correct)..No license..no nothing aside from stating ones age,and in some instances providing a form of ID...A law means nothing to a person who has no care outside of self....Better known as an "A" moralist. Take Care All

person184 7 years, 9 months ago

Lots of naysayers and judgmental people. Walk a mile in someone's shoes who has ADHD, is a teacher, is a parent. There is lots of info out there that indicates that ADHD is identifiable through brain imaging:

http://www.aip.org/dbis/stories/2004/14118.html http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/news/20031120/brain-imaging-targets-adhd-differences http://www.gordonresearch.com/articles_adhd/Brain_Differences_Found_in_ADHD_Kids.pdf

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Sadly some points you have made are true...but from our point of view we do tend to get bottom of the barrel care....Those not proficient enough for their own practice..or if and when they do they supplement it by contracting out..As I also stated Texas is a mess and has been for years.Do you find it troubling a radiologist is the highest prescriber to Foster children,or a child on 12 or more meds at a time...???? Now would you find Valproic Acid being delivered in 250 mg incriments and a total of 16 caps at once with a 200mg Zoloft chaser extreme...? Do the math on the Valproic Acid.... And what about the child receiving say Effexor Seroquel Adderall and Trazadone several times a day and that in an evaluation aspect of a center..you know the first place of entry for foster children and others of the CPS nightmare...? Know of any studies done on drug interaction of these mixes and quantities..Or as I said these being unregulated lab tests.. Or is it all simply again a quack picking and choosing effects options because of said known effects of any med,and seeing what happens..These are children with out the ability to form a working basis to converse to a doctor really what is going on inside..they are aware they are broke or they would not be placed..right??? How about a quack whose first question to a 12 year old is:"How are your meds doing" in a monthly 40 minute visit..??? I pray that full financial disclosure comes about,instead of the few known states that seek such disclosure,and when dug into come across some substantial amounts of conflict of interest cash.Those are the guys who are deemed "your" expert peers and reference source as reported by the New York Times several times this past year. I believe Gardiner Harris did the series..Catch those by chance...?

Researcher 7 years, 9 months ago

All the comments about this problem have some basis in fact but there is something else that causes psychiatric outcomes in classrooms.

In the 1960's designers accidentally discovered a small problem with human physiology and crowded workspace. Office workers using the first prototypes of close-spaced office workstations began to have mental breaks. The cubicle was created to deal with this phenomenon.

Too-close side-by-side seating in classrooms is the same design situation.

When exposure goes down symptoms do too. That will make any one believe that a mediation or talk therapy works.

Reducing exposure is FREE. There is no drug or other treatment. It will not interfere with any treatment you now have.

VisionAndPsychosis.Net is a five year historical search for Subliminal Distraction evidence.

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Uhm Dot...First prior poster to mine has several others from today...not a new poster,lest I am missing some thing implied here. As for Meths history I believe it was originally concocted in Germany at the turn of the century,and about say 1,000 years earlier the Chines were extractying and using the Ephedera plant..The Germans first synthesized it,and was I believe then used in "Normal" test subjects to induce psychosis so that schitzophrenia could be studied in a controled environment... US patents amount to squat really when one gets down to it....History also hints around at use/abuse of Meth by the Nazis because of known side effects (increased agression) And I would hope we could find a few honest US service men here who know all too well of them Military issued pep pills that help fuel and keep the military upon it's feet during Nam...Wasn't it also the Military that experimented contrary to Geneva Convention and a few other things the world penned after WW II that sorta forbid such experiments..??? Our guys got to play with LSD..Right? Ever hear of Eugenics..??? predecessor to planned parenthood..??? Nazi's at Nueremburg quoted them as their inspiration..right out of own State of California back again at the turn of the century if memory serves correct..... Jukes..Kallikaks (sp?)...? Ah yes the "social sciences". When did Sgmunds image get really tarnished..?? About the time Cocaine was becoming a problem..??? Take Care All

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Dot you a liberal by chance..? Couple good moves there,dodge the point being made such as verbal skills of 12 year olds,reminds me of a foster mom who could not grasp why a two year old could not read books..several doctors said Ritilan,Thankfully the birth parents had not lost all powers and they said no and move our baby out of there...... As for the Harris series I was refering again to the monetary aspect,and influence peddling that as was reported a few states seek doctors to disclose...Kinda like some of those taste analogies you offered prior.....Now if I sold Chevies would I talk up Fords,and aim a customer down the road to them..?? I believe it was 2004 when Florida Medicaid sent out letters to polypharma prescribing doctors reminding them of the evidence of and for adverse effects increase,and no data to uphold the practice...Of course that was Florida..doubt a corporate conglomerate such as medicaid would bother to hit all fifty states with such letters..and of course only aimed at those who accepted Medicaid patients and coverage..... I guess depending upon a doctors desire to connect truly with a patient especially a child in a strange evironment and not simply a designated name in a file and then viewed as a pile of neuro receptors.. I might be tempted to find a common comfort zone to see if they can and are able to then verbalize further in the adult world of psycho bable...

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Yes drug classifications,and as you are trying to do right now by splitting hairs on the topic of Ritilan...What is it a two or three molecule difference between street meth and ritilan..? As for the rest of the ramblings which you are ignoring,they simply demonstrate the history of the mental health experts..not much has changed,still arrogant and and condescending. As for any other recent posts indicative of the new research in the fields of Imagery,genetics etc... I propose this notion..let those who want to profess such theory be first to be tested to set the "norm"....Then and if such theory can be shown in a more viable large cross section of the population...maybe a tad more creedence would be given to such notions...Or if such notions are actually found to cross over and deny the theory...drop it and get over it...I believe many who want to travel these patterns of theory might not be as quick to profess it if they themselves were part of it...or fell with in the indicators they would like us to believe demonstrate their superior level of existence over those they deem below them or inferior to themselves...Eugenics,Jukes...etc. See my point now Dot,and the need to disclose the history of those amongst your rank and file..??? The general population is quite clueless as to this nations and your industries history in these avenues of thought and desired views of how the world should spin. Not much has really changed...

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Here are a couple of links worth viewing from others deemed qualified in the field,one being a resignation letter of a 30 year member of the APA.....The other a nice example of the double speak,and false claim and notion being associated when attempting to use the Surgeon Generals office to lend creedence to empty claims and junk science...Enjoy

http://adhd-report.com/biopsychiatry/bio_11.html http://adhd-report.com/biopsychiatry/bio_12.html

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

No I actually was attempting to question your lack of knowledge since this was and has been brought to the molecular level in respect to the medications and what we have been discussing all along..chemicals. You seem to feel I have a lack of understanding in the chemistry of things,yet earlier in this thread you talk about "families" of meds and classifications(believe at that time it was the SSRI's) And went off with Meg,who I believe was some what correct in her observation of preaching to the choir....You simply defined SSRI's as being a completely different type of drug,that is in comparison to Ritilan..right.? Yet I asked if I was correct in the molecular aspect between Ritilan and street Meth and you avoided answering me..Are not both classified as amphetimine...??? Is there the minute difference I asked of..? You also did this prior when I had asked about simple patent exclusive rights simply being of manufacturers of same family of meds(ie. SSRI's or Amphetimines..etc) As for the modern imagery I said nothing against it at all..don't try to put words into my posts that are not there please.... I simply said let you all go first...set the standard shows the inside of your noggins first...be a true part and example of leadership by physically partaking with your own beings first. "IF" these theories of yours are correct then what you claim to be true and proof would not be found amongst yourselves correct..???

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Oh Dot you are so amusing...The source was not the point it was the content of the links,who I believe are far from being the Lunatic fringe...unless the APA allows such members,and then again my point of the reckless prescribing pillpushers need to be cleaned out of your ranks because they are hurting a lot of children.... The content was for those again to see what I shared / linked to, as the inner conflict with in the APA and from the bought and paid by pharma members of the APA. And those fringe 30 year plus members sought the same proofs we have been attempting here now for a few hours...and you do just like those who cannot answer either...run around in circles.... Why don't you comment on the article instead of the source..???

lostsheep1997 7 years, 9 months ago

Well it is my weekly time for a few hours of watching the idiot box Dot..maybe we shall pick this up tommorow..??? Curious as to my TV habits..??? Sci Fi...Ironic isn't it...we have like interests...I do mine for mindless down time,you do yours to line your pockets.....Thankfully mine does not last but a few hours and then back to reality...yours however involves others...and can last a life time. Wouldn't want to be like you. Take Care All

oldgoof 7 years, 9 months ago

OK Dots-Lines:

let me eat my words on this one. You have contributed a lot on this one. You do contribute valuable information, pretty well articulated in these areas. I apologize for some of my past comments.

Thank you for your long, but informative posts on this one.

But remember to not be too critical to the less-than-articulate, even though it is difficult when they attack you, nor feel that it is necessary to respond to questions-making-no-sense. And we all need to lose the snide comments (yes me too) That is what poisons these forums, and makes them difficult to read.

oldgoof 7 years, 9 months ago

And everyone needs to learn editing for brevity.

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for injecting some actual information into this discussion, DotsLine.

BTW, I'm in awe of the fact that you seem to have actually read through some really long and incoherent posts.

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

"Several years back had a great review meeting at one of the great warehouses CPS sent my son away to."

I'm sorry CPS removed your son from you. That must be extremely painful for both you and your son. It must also be hard to feel that you have little or no say over whether he is medicated or not.

"removal from birth parents and many time on simply a annonomous call to CPS:"

This just isn't true. An anonymous call may get an investigation started, but removal takes more than that. It's my understanding that the investigator may remove a child immediately if there are signs that he is in imminent danger, but that the parent is entitled to a hearing within 72 hours.

"And in several years the child has been bounced around,has no true basis of family let alone self,and simply acts as those they are warehoused with."

Sadly this is too true for too many children. And it's very damaging to them. Even a healthy child entering the foster care system would likely emerge damaged. Most of the children in the system entered it already damaged by trauma in their birth homes.

[continued ...]

costello 7 years, 9 months ago

[continuing ...]

"What does the adoptive parent get..not the $5,000 federal incentive to adopt that child,that goes to CPS."

Why would that go to the adoptive parent? I don't know what $5000 you're speaking of here, but I know that attempts have been made to build financial incentives into the system to encourage agencies to move children out of the system and into permanent living situations more quickly. If this $5000 is one of those incentives, it would have to go to the agency to be effective.

"No they end up with a child that has more issues and has dealt with more than any child should."

I'm an adoptive parent of one such child. I can personally testify to the damage caused by his early life and the child protection system. Most (all?) children coming out of foster care into an adoptive home are full of anxiety. They also likely lack the capacity to deal with that anxiety. They may easily become overwhelmed by it, resulting in extremely negative behaviors. Those behaviors elicit negative, angry, punishing reactions from their new parents and other adults, which results in an escalation of the anxiety and, therefore, the negative behaviors.

One way of helping the child calm down, so that he can better manage his anxiety and acquire new coping skills, is to give him medications. In this case, the medications shouldn't be an end in themselves - IMO - but a stop gap to give the kid a fighting chance. The pain, fear, and anxiety just overwhelm these kids. Why would you deprive him of a little relief so he can catch his breath?

And to the spankers in the crowd: personally I don't believe in spanking any child for any reason, but if a kid's negative behaviors are based in fear, hitting him will only increase the fear and add some anger and shame to it. The behaviors will get worse over the long run. If you're seriously wed to the idea of spanking as a parenting tool, please don't adopt from foster care.

hawklet21 7 years, 9 months ago

Aren't schools drug-free zones? So if a kid can't study or do well in school, why do you need to diminish their self-worth and put them into a box? Not everyone is capable of going to college. It does not make you stupid, and it certainly doesn't mean that you cannot do anything else with your life. Junior won't get a degree. Get over it.

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