Carpenters picket KU nonunion workers / LJWorld.com

Archive for Thursday, November 8, 2007

J-W Staff Reports

November 8, 2007

A group of union carpenters stood on the corner of 15th and Iowa streets Tuesday and Wednesday, protesting the use of a nonunion contractor at Kansas University.

The carpenters allege KU is "desecrating the American way of life" by using a contractor, Hi Tech Interiors, that does not pay area standard wages and benefits. Hi Tech Interiors is working on the Sabatini Multicultural Resource Center.

The university contracts only with the general contractor, not any subcontractor, including Hi Tech Interiors, KU spokesman Todd Cohen said.

Because the contractor's dispute is with the general contractor, Cohen said, KU should not be involved.

Discussion

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8 November 2007
at 8:48 a.m.

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SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…

Unions are a tired relic of the past.
8 November 2007
at 8:50 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Unions are a tired relic of the past.”

So are the corporations for whom most union members work.
8 November 2007
at 8:53 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Kansas is a right to work state.

If the union protesters step in front of a vehicle being driven into the construction site, then, “Oh, well!”
8 November 2007
at 9:07 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

The JDub forum just wouldn't be the same without Marion's death threats.
8 November 2007
at 9:36 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

You're right, bowhunter, we should just let corporations do whatever they want and run everything like a Chinese sweatshop. If you can't keep up, you don't deserve to have a job.
8 November 2007
at 9:44 a.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Well let's see. In the last 5 years, Hi-Tech has been involved with misclassifying it's employees as subcontractors to avoid paying taxes or unemployment insurance on them, subbing out work to contractors that it knows to be using illegal migrant workers and not that long ago someone was killed on a hi-tech job because of unsafe scaffolding built not according to OSHA guidelines. But yep, it's the Union that's at fault here.

Oh and bowhunter, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I know those men standing on that picket line and they will run circles around any scab carpenter out there. They're highly skilled, highly intelligent and willing and able to work their asses off for their pay. They're tired of combatting contractors that mistreat their workers or bring in illegals that do a crappy job for 1/3 the pay.
8 November 2007
at 11:22 a.m.

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pace (Anonymous) says…

If they had mentioned what is happening to local laborers, in Lawrence, because of companies who use slave immigrant labor instead of experienced construction workers the cry would be different. Then instead of hate remarks for the union, from a lot of people who never slung tools, there might be hate remarks for immigrants from people who never hungered. Decisions, decisions.

I support the union. I also think while KU should not jump into every dispute they certainly have more responsibility for how they do business than they are claiming.

8 November 2007
at 11:56 a.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

acg…………that's a laugh. It is you that has no idea what they're talking about. The fact that you classify other hard working carpenters as “scabs” reveals your narrow-minded, Union-brainwashed attitude about others. It is the union carpenter's laziness that has made the union so weak for the last 30 years. Kansas is a right to work state and those guys have every right to be working on that project. There isn't a union carpenter around that could work circles around those men…………they are too busy taking 30 minute coffee breaks and 1 1/2 hour lunches.
8 November 2007
at 12:45 p.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Well I helped write the last 4 carpenter Union contracts and they have no contractual breaktimes at all, as a matter of fact. One 1/2 hour lunch period is it. And aside from pointing out your obvious misconceptions to you, that's not why I'm even bothering responding. Are you so blind that you don't see the damage a dangerous company like Hi-Tech poses? Who do you think pays in the end for a company that does not take taxes out of an employee's check? The employee? Who isn't from this country? Who's going to take that money (the majority of it) back to his home country? No, you short sighted idiot, we pay! For every illegal immigrant that works here in this country that doesn't pay taxes and has no unemployment or worker's comp paid on them it drains us a little bit more. I work for a union labor organization d-bag and I see exactly who the Union goes after. It's not every non-Union company at all. It's unsavory companies like Hi-Tech that not only do not pay a living wage for a skilled position, what they do pay they're paying to illegals that don't pay taxes. Bash the Union all you want but they're trying to protect us all from this kind of crap. And a little more info, next time you enjoy the 40 hour work week, no mandatory overtime, weekends, labor day, holidays off, etc. you remember who stood up and fought for those rights. Unions! Have you ever stood up and fought for anything? Or do you just sit around being misinformed and talking smack on an organization you know nothing about?
8 November 2007
at 1:26 p.m.

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somebodynew (Anonymous) says…

acg-

right on!!! And for the record I am not a union worker (now). Used to be in the long ago past and still credit them for building what exists today, and the fact that as a “right to work” state, I can make a decent wage, have decent benefits, etc.

They did it and I totally support them, particularly with the companies knowingly hiring and using illegal immigrants who feed off us taxpaying citizens.
8 November 2007
at 1:53 p.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Actually bowhunter, our organization requires journeymen upgrade classes be taken every two years. Scaffold training, blue print reading, laser sighting systems, cooling tower training, welding certification, cpr/first aid are just a few of the classes that have to be retaken every two years. I'm required in my own job to take training courses yearly. But then again, instead of learning this info by inquiring into the practices of a labor union it's easier to just run your mouth isn't it?
8 November 2007
at 2:29 p.m.

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cowboy (Anonymous) says…

Commercial carpentry is an acquired skill , not just any carpenter can do it , Union carpenters have historically done the hard stuff and let the knuckleheads work in the housing industry.

The worst thing about HiTech is they are from Manhattan , Whaaaaat , yeah Manhattan. WTF KU ,
KU could care less anyway they don't pay their own people sh!t anyway. Journeyman level skilled trades , start at 11 something an hour , what a joke ! Probably why their buildings are in such sad shape!
8 November 2007
at 4:32 p.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

I know all about the union acg……….I was in it for 20 years. And although when they started, they were a very necessary tool, they have more recently been all about making more and more money while doing less and less work. You can preach your pro-union crap all day long but it won't wash over anyone that has been a member. What do you think the biggest problem is with the big three automakers in the US? It's union workers who demand too much pay for too little work.

Cowboy………..the reason KU's buildings are in such sad shape is because the legislature doesn't provide funding for maintenance. They are STATE buildings, not KU buildings.
8 November 2007
at 4:53 p.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

Don't forget the old jingle………………..

America works less when we say Union yes!
9 November 2007
at 3:08 p.m.

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jdsmanh (Anonymous) says…

looks like acg has his facts all screwed up. If those carpenters that he knows who are picketing are such great workers, then why are they not working? Instead, they are such great carpenters that they are sitting in their lawn chairs getting paid $5 an hour to picket a company that works extremely hard to take care of their employees. How is paying your union buddies $5 an hour an honest wage while they wait to go to work? Does not seem fair to me….but hey, you go ahead and tell half the story and we will see where that gets you in life.

9 November 2007
at 3:29 p.m.

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mccmak (Anonymous) says…

agc….where exactly have you got all your information about Hi-Tech? I lived in Manhattan for almost 10 years now and know many people that work for that great company. Let see some proof that a Hi-Tech employee was killed on a jobsite. I'm sure there are were all kinds of articles about written about the accident and since it was not to long ago you should be able to produce atleast one. Do your research before you comment, pinhead!
9 November 2007
at 3:39 p.m.

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imastinker (Anonymous) says…

I have to hire union employees to unload the van at trade shows. It doesn't matter that I can unload them myself. I can't bring anything with wheels inside the doors. The union workers stand like thugs at the doors to make sure nobody does this. They will not let you in and will call security unless everything is carried physically. Usually I am able to amke about 80 trips and avoid paying the union to unload me, but some places this is not feasible, like Las Vegas. In Vegas, everythign has to go through the casino and they won't let you through carying a bunch of things.

Two years ago in vegas, I paid $700 for a worker to unload me with a forklift and move my items about 50 yards. It took him two trips. I waited an hour for him to unload me and 5 hours for him to reload me after the show. He spent no more than ten minutes actually moving my stuff. The kicker was that I had a cart and could do every bit of it myself. They wouldn't let me. It was after midnight when I got out of there.

Some people wonder why others don't like unions.
9 November 2007
at 3:44 p.m.

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the_assistant (Anonymous) says…

Whether you're against the union or not…you have your facts straight about the company your speaking of…seriously. For example, someone was killed on Hi-Tech scaffolding because it wasn't built to OSHA standard? What job & when because I don't recall ever hearing about that one and as big of a deal as that kind of thing would be, I can't seem to find one article about it. As for misclassifying employees as subs to avoid paying taxes or unemployment insurance on them, how was this information obtained and I'd really like to see the proof on that? And what proof do you have that the subcontractors used by this company are illegal immigrants? Who is your source? The Union? Of course that's what they want you to believe because they are against companies that aren't Union. Hi-Tech Interiors is a small business that is slowly moving up into the Lawrence area providing quality work with competitive bidding. I have yet to hear anything from them bashing the Union because they require such high wages and demand so much in their contracts. My best guess? Someone had a few too many breaks in their contract and they came up with this silly idea to fabricate a silly story because they have nothing better to do with their time. Its truly a sad thing…it's like high school all over again. Bring some proof to the table next time before you make up such rediculous lies…
9 November 2007
at 4:19 p.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

acg doesn't have a clue about the company he's bashing or about the Union for that matter. They are a travesty and they have priced themselves out of the market. They are more concerned with attacking others who are willing to work than actually working themselves. They are lazy and their workmanship is pitiful. Thank goodness KU has the ability to hire who they want instead of who the Union dictates.
9 November 2007
at 9:03 p.m.

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martindb (Anonymous) says…

The truth of everything is that the Union has had it out for Hi-Tech for many years now they will stop at nothing until they succeed destroying Hi-Tech or organizing them! They use all means to do this and have salted Hi-Tech, and used unethical tactics to do so! I know for a fact that NO Hi-Tech employee or sub contractor has ever been killed in the entire time that the company has been in existence!!!!!! The truth of the matter is they want everyone to believe them and jump on there band wagon because they can not compete with a company that takes care of their employees. All companies use subcontractors Hi-Tech is no different they use reputable and established company's to supplement the workforce when needed all of those company's have to have full documentation on their workers and pay all of the required taxes and wages. I work for Hi -Tech and am proud to be an employee with them.
10 November 2007
at 12:25 p.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Actually I have to admit that I did mix up my subcontractors. I looked in my files last night to site the sources ya'll asked for and realized that it wasn't hi tech that was guilty of that stuff, it was someone else. Hi Tech was guilty of unfair labor practices filed against them with the NLRB and had to pay a crap ton of fines earlier this year, so I apologize for mixing up my info. I don't want to be guilty of lible? slander? which one is in print? Anyhoo, sorry again,. I mixed up my unsavory contractors.hi tech wasn't guilty of that stuff, just other stuff.
10 November 2007
at 4:28 p.m.

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racerjmh (Anonymous) says…

Multiple things here. The general contractor is the one who promised to pay “prevailing wage” or subcontract to those who must pay prevailing wages. The unions are the ones federally mandated to set the prevailing wage for the Lawrence area, therefore the workers for High tech are going to get paid the union rate anyway. If they don't the only recourse they have is to approach the Union and they will fight for them whether they are union or not.
The union would like for all contractors to be union and they would love to try to unionize the company, I would think, but they have to be invited by the workers to do so. If High Tech is already paying close to what the union contractors pay somebody would have to show their workers the other benefits realized by going union such as training and benefits as well as the opportunity to work on larger and more profitable projects. I have worked on a few projects at KU as a union carpenter.
In my opinion the unions don't have it out for anybody except those who want to hurt the working conditions and standards that affect anyone working. And the carpenters are very progressive at not allowing people to hide behind their union to keep a job. its been preached to me since day one as an apprentice to give your employer 8hrs work for 8 hrs pay. One of the things the organizers use to court new contractors is the benefit to them of a fully trained workforce to complete their projects on time and under budget if at all possible. And the quote is “America works best when WE say union , yes!”
Anyway, what will High Tech do if our leaders in Washington get there way and let construction jobs get outsourced by allowing contractors from Mexico , China, and other lower wage countries to bid on jobs and pay there workers what they earn in there home countries? In Mexico its $2.67 an hr and in China its $0.67 an hr. Its out there being pushed now. Just something to think about.
I have nothing against High Tech or its workers. Anybody that works is a friend of mine. And none of us ever know all the facts. I just want everybody to get there fair share of the pie. Flame on.
10 November 2007
at 5:14 p.m.

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situveux1 (Anonymous) says…

Ohhhh poor babies…who cares.

15 November 2007
at 3:23 p.m.

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jdsmanh (Anonymous) says…

Please read this article. I find it very interesting…..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/…
15 November 2007
at 4:02 p.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

And the truth is…………America works LESS when we say union yes.
15 November 2007
at 4:21 p.m.

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tony88 (Anonymous) says…

KU's front end specifications should require that the GC's subs are union as well.
15 November 2007
at 4:26 p.m.

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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…

tony88………..Are you sure all of those tax-payers out there are ready to pay even more money so KU can use union subcontractors that charge more to do a project and then take longer to get it done? No, as long as a contractor meets the specs set out by KU, then it doesn't matter if they are union or not.
15 November 2007
at 4:41 p.m.

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BigAl (Anonymous) says…

Unions have served a very definite meaningful purpose. But, in my humble opinion, their time has come and gone. There are some very good general contractors and sub-contractors right here in Lawrence. Both union and non-union. However, there is absolutely no reason not to use a non-union reputable contractor on any work at KU or anywhere else.
15 November 2007
at 5:08 p.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Monopolies, even of labor, are inefficient and lead to higher prices to consumers and tax payers. The University of Kansas has a moral obligation to the citizens of Kansas to get the absolute most they can for their money and to keep their costs as low as possible.