Letters to the Editor

Where’s ACLU?

May 14, 2007

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To the editor:

Why does The Council on American-Islamic Relations get a pass on pressuring the U.S. government to install foot baths for Muslim cab drivers at Kansas City International Airport?

They have been installed for a Muslim religious cleansing ritual called ablution as part of a 10-step process called "wudu."

Where is the ACLU? I thought they were the watchdogs for insuring separation of church and state?

Tom Shewmon,

Linwood

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

"Where is the ACLU? I thought they were the watchdogs for insuring separation of church and state?"

I bet this is only an issue for you because of the particular "church" involved, isn't it, Tom?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

You couldn't be more wrong, blue73harley.

If there is a violation here, and Tom wants the ACLU to take it up, all he has to do is notify them, and they will look into it.

Will they go to court over it? They have limited resources, so they can't and don't do that with any and everything that is brought to their attention. But it's a myth that the ACLU is in any way anti-christian.

SettingTheRecordStraight 11 years, 1 month ago

You are correct, blue73harley. The ACLU hates Christianity, and it hates that any part of our society is, was or ever could be partially Christian.

The ACLU is a cancer on America.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

Well, blue73harley, this is a majority christian (not muslim) country, so most violations of the separation of church and state come from "christian" sources.

SettingTheRecordStraight-- So, it's your contention that the protection of constitutional rights is anti-american. I guess we just disagree (as does the ACLU.)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

"the ACLU is quite notably a secular-progressive body"

Well, the constitution is clearly a secular document, and compared to what the Christian (or Muslim or Jewish or fill in the blank) Taliban would like to impose upon all of us, it's also quite "progressive."

SettingTheRecordStraight 11 years, 1 month ago

"Christian Taliban" is a typical hate-slogan for bozo to use. Terms like that exclude his thoughts from being seriously considered in this forum.

oldgoof 11 years, 1 month ago

Actually, the Washington Post article above is an interesting read of current feet washing trends, including mainline Christian churches and homeless shelters. Maybe an idea for ours?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

It should be pretty clear from my comments that I oppose any religious group (christian, muslim, jewish, fill in the blank) from imposing a their religion on anyone else, and using government to do it. I don't hate them-- I just want them to practice their religion without me.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

What are you even upset about? Do you even know what the ACLU does? I'm going to spell it out really slowly for you, and you see why they aren't involved, okay? They only step in when there is an unconstitutional infringement upon someone's civil liberties. Your civil liberties are outlined, right there in the Constitution's Bill of Rights. The only way that there has been a violation of your constitutional rights is if the federal (or, in the case of some but not all rights, a state) government has deprived you of a right. Show me what right has been deprived here, by allowing a religious group to lobby the federal government and a city government to provide them with something that helps them practice their religion? Your right to dislike Muslims?

The first amendment protects the general public against excessive entanglement of religious and government entities. I'm not sure how much entanglement there is by allowing Muslim groups to ask for and, gasp!, even get a place at an airport to allow people to practice a facet of their faith. It's not an excessive entanglement for the government to provide textbooks to Christian schools, and I don't see anyone up in arms about that. It's not about separating church and state entirely in every physical and metaphysical way possible. It's about avoiding excessive entanglement. Perhaps you should study, gosh, say, the Constitution, before you criticize a group dedictated to its protection.

redglare 11 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, Christians are so persecuted here. It's impossible to have a Christian president, or celebrate Christian holidays, or put things about the Christian God on the money or in the Pledge of Allegiance. You can't find a Christian church anywhere. Or any Christian programming on TV on Sunday. It is sure hard being a Christian in the USA, whew. Christians are really martyrs here.

kuhusker 11 years, 1 month ago

Also, I am sick and tired of athletes and coaches always going on camera and thanking Darwin when they win a championship. Do they really have to flaunt their secularism in everyone's faces?

bjbrown 11 years, 1 month ago

Pat Mahoney has often recounted walking into the back (ie not for public consumption) offices of the ACLU in LA back in the 90's and noticing a big cross on the wall with the negation circle around it and the word "crossbusters" underneath.

Now, I am certain that they meant that as a statement against capital punishment, aren't you?

Emily Hadley 11 years, 1 month ago

Would one be required to somehow provide evidence of their chosen religion in order to use these? Would these not be allowed to be used by other cab drivers and/or other patrons using the facilities? Would non-Muslim cab drivers be forced to participate?

Is this more egregious than churches not paying taxes which are paid by identical secular organizations, thus being heavily subsidized by government at every level?

Do we not provide federal funding to churches for a number of their services and activities, with their eligibility specifically based on their status as a church?

This is a very simple matter of reasonable accommodation. We offer restrooms for two of the several variations on human anatomy, based on some widely accepted and enforced views on sexuality and modesty. I wouldn't say that the U.S. government is institutionalizing sexism by doing so, but rather accommodating those who adhere to such views. We could certainly all manage to share one restroom as there are private stalls for each individual.

Very different people must exist together in Kansas City, and we are lucky to have diversity. There are approximately 1,400,000,000 Muslims in the world using the Qur'an to guide them through life. Certainly we can allow our city's Muslim employees to maintain their personal hygiene at the level prescribed by their most deeply held beliefs.

This writer's argument sounds absurd to me, hardly worth discussion, beyond that such views as this may lead to antisocial behavior and thus must be openly dealt with for the sake of education and tolerance.

roger_o_thornhill 11 years, 1 month ago

Mr. Shewmon, worry about your own life. Maybe you need to wash your feet as well.

SettingTheRecordStraight 11 years, 1 month ago

The ACLU opposes Christmas. It hates the Boy Scouts. It wants "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. It wants "In God We Trust" removed from our coinage. It promotes gay marriage. It favors the grisly act of abortion.

What's not to dislike about the ACLU?

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

I can't even believe you think those things. It's wholly absurd and without merit. The ACLU has done more for your civil liberties than, apparently, you know or will ever know. It's your prerogative to remain willfully blind to the many ways they've protected you and to focus on the way they have even-handled offered protection to those whose views you do not hold. I supposed it's also you prerogative to trumpet your ignorance in a public sphere such as this one. Let's add fuel to your fire. They've also defended the Nazis. They've defended terrible criminals who have committed unspeakable acts. They've defended the KKK. I guess that makes them evil, if you choose not to think about why they've defended all those folks, as well as Christians, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, Native Americans, the elderly, the mentally handicapped, and children. The point of it is that they are a venerable institution because they will defend a person's - ANY person - civil liberties. Just because that means they sometimes defend the scourge of society or those people with whose views you disagree does not make them evil. It makes you look ignorant.

lawrencechick 11 years, 1 month ago

Does anyone know why there is a PRAYER station installed in front of the Eldridge on the sidewalk? Who put it there?

lawrencechick 11 years, 1 month ago

I have no idea, but it's on a public city sidewalk.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

Um, there are already small Christian chapels in most large airports. But keep looking ignorant and one-sided.

roger_o_thornhill 11 years, 1 month ago

I think prayer booth is part of the silly downtown art thing where real art is often excluded--certainly representational art.

Update: In answer to the question, "where's ACLU?" (BTW "where's" cannot mean "where is the", which calls the entire premise into question)--I saw them running down 6th street near Monterrey Way just ten minutes ago. If you hurry, you can catch them.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

Che, I believe the word is "ascribing," rather proving my point about people who oppose the ACLU being ignorant.

It is NOT the legal branch of the Secular Progressive movement. I assume you've come to this conclusion by focusing on situations where they've advanced the cause of avoiding excessive entanglement between church and state, e.g. where they disallow prayer in public schools. I assume also, that in order to truly believe they're militant secular anti-Christians, you conveniently ignore the fact that they have, time and time again, stood up for Christian groups and persons who have had their civil liberties violated. They worked to free an imprisioned Christian who was arrested for witnessing to people on the public street in New Mexico and about 6 other places in the last 4 years. The ACLU of Virginia had a Virginia law struck down which prohibited religious groups from seeking to incorporate. They defended students at the University of Iowa who wanted to distribute Christian literature on campus. They intervened on behalf of a Christian student who had been prevented from including Biblical references in their public high school yearbook.

Sure, they've defended other religions, too (which I suspect is your real problem with them), like a Muslim firefighter who was defended from having to shave his beard against his religion to keep his job with the city, or a Mormon kid who wore a T-shirt with a religious statement on it to his public school and was asked to go home.

The point is that they are one of the few organizations in this country who truly and simply protect the constitutional rights of everyone, no matter if they are a child molester, a mentally handicapped person, or an Average Joe.

To hate them is completely insane and it shows that you're just listening to one-sided political punditry which spews hate about the things the ACLU has defended that they don't like. Or, it shows that you're willing to overlook the good work they do because you hate some of the people they defend. Do you hate public defenders, too? People who defend and blind themselves to the fact that the person they're defending may be incredibly abhorrent and disgusting as a human being? The whole point is that no matter the person, no matter the situation, the ACLU is there to protect the Constitution and the people the Constitution protects. To say they are evil is so incredibly ignorant, it's sad.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Tom,

And the sister question to yours is, how does the Hookah House in Lawrence come off as being the only smoking establishment in the city? It's their ritual, as well as the foot cleansing. Only thing I can come up with is it's considered open-minded by the powers that be and when you get liberal powers, so be it. I don't know why we give so much deference to a religion that clearly calls for our (and other infidels) destruction.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

I can't even imagine getting up every day with the viewpoint Che has. Wow. I mean, wow.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

ACLU is a two-edged sword. Some of the things they oppose seem counterproductive to national security, such as wiretaps on suspected terrorists. The Cato Institution is another such group. It seems they are always at odds with either liberals or conservatives. You can't please everyone.

redglare 11 years, 1 month ago

My history book says that in the 1950s we had McCarthyism and Jim Crow segregation. Ah, the good ol' days!

Thank God for the ACLU!

deec 11 years, 1 month ago

That was also before "Under God" was added to the pledge.

pelliott 11 years, 1 month ago

want real seperation of church and state, Churches should pay property taxes. They get a tax ride on property, we pay. I don't want to pay for their fire truck services. When they don't pay property tax, who does their share fall too. They can afford 10 acres in prime development areas because they don't pay for it. That is ten acres that could be paying its own way not carried by other organizations, families and businesses.

Confrontation 11 years, 1 month ago

"how does the Hookah House in Lawrence come off as being the only smoking establishment in the city? It's their ritual, as well as the foot cleansing."

Smoking a hookah has nothing to do with being a Muslim. That's completely cultural. Many Muslims believe that smoking of any sort is against their religion.

http://www.islam.ca/answers.php?id=824

drewdun 11 years, 1 month ago

I've said it many times here and I'll keep saying it: the LJW.com provides an invaluable service for all, in that one can see how the average right-wing mind functions. Pretty scary stuff in their posts. Completely and unapologetically ignorant, too.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Smoking a hookah has nothing to do with being a Muslim. That's completely cultural. Many Muslims believe that smoking of any sort is against their religion.


Agreed. Just using that example to point out the willingness of our culture to accept others' cultures, at least sometimes, while Islam is unaccepting of ANY other religion and any cultural influence outside their own. Although, the interesting thing is that they seem to put aside these beliefs long enough to become educated in Europe or the US.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Drewd., and equally as interesting that the left-wingnuts appear that they cannot read, at least not without reading their own interpretation between the lines.

zbarf 11 years, 1 month ago

Defender,

What Party is closer to communism? Seems from the links below...yours!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_in_our_name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Can%27t_Wait

You call right wingers Commies but I bet you love Castro and Chavez....wake up.

Leftist = Socialism, Gov run industries. Rightist = Capitalism, Private run industries

zbarf 11 years, 1 month ago

Ok...stand corrected... But why would you call a conservative a commie (right wing shills that will lie repeatedly to advance thier commie agenda)? Commies are typically anti religion - most of the people you are arguing with here are Christian conservatives that are much further away from communism then the left wing!

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

right_think., and the day of the attacks on US soil will come either in suicide taxi bombers or some other religious nutcase. In the meantime, the ACLU wil continue to blubber about racial profiling and liberals will continue to promote looking the other way when you know darn well of whom you need to be fearful.

Confrontation 11 years, 1 month ago

"while Islam is unaccepting of ANY other religion and any cultural influence outside their own. "

That's crap. I know at least twenty Muslims in Lawrence and the KC area. They are far more tolerant of other religions that most Christians I've met (look at this board for example). I never hear them bash other religions. Many of them are active participants in cultural practices that may not match 100% with their religion (such as listening to music, dancing, taking part in local events either here or in their countries or origin). Sure, there are those strict Muslims who have issues with other religions, but don't classify them as ALL Muslims. I haven't met every Muslim and only know by the example I have seen. It's funny how SOME Christians bash other religions for being intolerant, when those Christians are guilty of the same actions.

heysoos 11 years, 1 month ago

Posted by right_thinker: "Well, the bottom line it doesn't matter what religion, the ACLU is quite notably a secular-progressive body-doing the dirty work for the secular-progressives, naturally."

Well, really? I think the Constitution does the dirty work.

But more to the point, are you suggesting that people who don't agree with you should have no advocate? The religious-regressives of this nation have theirs installed in the White House and US Supreme Court, not to mention their borderline monopoly over talk radio. You've got half of the alumni of Regent University in the judicial system, trying to change (yes, I said change) the fabric of our nation, the Constitution, to fit the desires of the religious-regressives. Can't I, as someone who doesn't share your faith, have a high-powered advocate for MY own interests?

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

"redglare (Anonymous) says:

Yeah, Christians are so persecuted here. It's impossible to have a Christian president, or celebrate Christian holidays, or put things about the Christian God on the money or in the Pledge of Allegiance. You can't find a Christian church anywhere. Or any Christian programming on TV on Sunday. It is sure hard being a Christian in the USA, whew. Christians are really martyrs here."

Yeah, just like it is so darn hard to be a white, well-educated, middle class male in this country...

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

Bottomline of what the ACLU does is protect due process rights, and that's what bothers the religious/political regressives. They prefer summary judgements and punishment, and kangaroo courts, by police and judges who have exactly the same fascist and talibanic viewpoints that they have.

What they don't understand, is that they and their friends and family are just as at risk by such "law enforement" as anyone else.

So careful what you wish for che, RT and others-- you might just get it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

BTW, the Hookah House has no special exemption. It's the exemption written into the smoking law that applies to everybody. Tobacco stores can allow smoking on the premises. If anybody wishes to open a similar establishment, they will recieve the same exemption, regardless of the religion or ethnic background of the proprieters.

preebo 11 years, 1 month ago

Heysoos,

"You've got half of the alumni of Regent University in the judicial system, trying to change (yes, I said change) the fabric of our nation, the Constitution, to fit the desires of the religious-regressives."

Good Call, why did the ABA grant accreditation to Robertson's Camp for Christian Soldiers anyway?

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

"Recommend you find a 1950s US history book and discover what America was. "

Yeah, those were the good old days.....segregation, Jim Crow laws, separate but equal still in effect despite Brown v. BOE.....You're so right. Perhaps I can time travel back to those days when I would have been considered 1) too highly educated for a mere woman, and 2) a spinster for being a single 28 year old woman.

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

kneejerkreaction said: "Agreed. Just using that example to point out the willingness of our culture to accept others' cultures, at least sometimes, while Islam is unaccepting of ANY other religion and any cultural influence outside their own."

You are actually incorrect about Islam being unnaccepting of any other cultures or religions. Islam is one of the few Western religions that actually states that any "person of the book" who lives their lives according to their religion, be they Christian, Jewish or Muslim, will go to "heaven". You don't have to be a political or religious genius to know that one.....I learned that 8 years ago in a living religions class at KU.....

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Crisp., did you pass the class or just sleep? Is this the Islam whose clerics call for the extinction of all others in the name of their god? Islam sounds more like a political movement than a religion. It's remniscent of HItler and the Nazis.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Besides, Crisp., the whole Islam thing is nothing more than an excuse to rally the masses, much like the crusades of the Middle Ages, not about religion, but about conquering and power. The clerics are the power, the rest of the people just pawns, and it's the radical clerics that get the most attention.

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

right thinker posted: "Heck, Bill Maher and Jon Stewart will have to find a new job when W leaves the whitehouse. It's purely disgusting."

Well, I doubtthat considering both have had HIGHLY successful shows before W was in office. Clearly, you don't watch the Daily Show....It's been around ten years...

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

Knee jerk, I really have no idea what to say to you. You are incredibly ill-informed and are making a lot of generalizations. I doubt that ALL Islamic Clerics are calling for the extinction of all others....as was said above Extremists do not reqpresent an entire religion. And, no, I did not sleep in that class. I actually remember it very distinctly. Maybe you should do some research before you overgeneralize.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

Crisp., among the various sects of shiites, sunnis and the MANY derivatives of said, we have them either killing us or one another. What do you believe are the redemptive features of fanatacism? All I know is that for all the good the middle east does for the rest of the world, it should just fall off the ends of the earth and take its backwards, screwed up religious goofballs with it. The middle east gets WAY more attention than it deserves or merits.

kneejerkreaction 11 years, 1 month ago

And now I bid adieu to all our leftwing loonie tunes. Don't forget your prayer mats for this evening's ceremony, and try and keep on open mind to all those who want to destroy us, undermine our world status and DON'T forget to hate GWB more than the terrorists.

Nick Yoho 11 years, 1 month ago

More likely a yoga mat around here.and don't worry, we do. Think I'll kick up my membership donation to the ACLU tonight in the names of Knee jerk,right thinker,Setting the record strait,and Marion too(for good measure)!$25 each ok? ok $100.00 donation it is boys.we thank you.G'day.

b_asinbeer 11 years, 1 month ago

The_Factor....

"Islam has always been spread by the sword. It is a religion of intolerance and hate, much like modern secular progressivism.

Now, comes the personal attacks and mean spirited responses because I have disagreed with the opinion of the progressives."

Now, come again, who's the one doing the attacks and mean-spirited comments? It is true that Islam has been spread by the sword, no doubt about it. But, always? Give me a break. What religion hasn't done so?

(See, no personal attacks)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 1 month ago

I agree pelliot-- such exemptions are especially galling when you consider "churches" such as the Phelpses pay no property taxes.

Jamesaust 11 years, 1 month ago

Okay, what's the point here? They have installed faucets to dispense water so people may wash their feet?

A. How is this an unwarranted mixing of government and religion? B. How are you or I or anyone else harmed by clean feet?

Goodness. Before you know it Christmas will be an official government holiday.

It seems some people, this author included, do nothing but troll the backpages of the newspaper looking for things that fit their narrow view of "reality" (a/k/a, their own bigotry and biases).

Emily Hadley 11 years, 1 month ago

It's quite telling about the mission of the "right wing" to hear one admit that he or she sees defending the Constitution of the United States as "anti-right wing".

drewdun 11 years, 1 month ago

"15 May 2007 at 9:10 a.m.

Suggest removal Jamesaust (Anonymous) says:

Okay, what's the point here? They have installed faucets to dispense water so people may wash their feet?

A. How is this an unwarranted mixing of government and religion? B. How are you or I or anyone else harmed by clean feet?

Goodness. Before you know it Christmas will be an official government holiday"

Game. Set. Match.

heysoos 11 years, 1 month ago

Jerry Falwell just died. I wonder if the secular-progressives did it.

heysoos 11 years, 1 month ago

Actually, it was probably the Teletubbies that did it.

They certainly had the motive...

preebo 11 years, 1 month ago

I thought Fallwell was waiting for the "Rapture." Did God not get the memo?

preebo 11 years, 1 month ago

...in all seriousness, I respect the Reverend's views, but I vastly differed on many if not all.

ksmoderate 11 years, 1 month ago

"Why does The Council on American-Islamic Relations get a pass on pressuring the U.S. government to install foot baths for Muslim cab drivers at Kansas City International Airport?"

Instead of making the CAIR the bad guy, why isn't anyone here villifying the above-mentioned U.S. government for caving? I mean, if this is such a bad idea, shouldn't our LTE writer be deriding our oh-so-morally-never-wrong government?

Just wondering.

james bush 11 years, 1 month ago

The aclu is like National Public Radio and Public Television..........socialist agendas with a cover of altruism.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

To everyone who says the ACLU is left-wing, anti-Christian, and socialist. Read this, think about it, and then tell me why you still think they're "bad" in that way.

It is NOT the legal branch of the Secular Progressive movement. I assume you've come to this conclusion by focusing on situations where they've advanced the cause of avoiding excessive entanglement between church and state, e.g. where they disallow prayer in public schools. I assume also, that in order to truly believe they're militant secular anti-Christians, you conveniently ignore the fact that they have, time and time again, stood up for Christian groups and persons who have had their civil liberties violated. They worked to free an imprisioned Christian who was arrested for witnessing to people on the public street in New Mexico and about 6 other places in the last 4 years. The ACLU of Virginia had a Virginia law struck down which prohibited religious groups from seeking to incorporate. They defended students at the University of Iowa who wanted to distribute Christian literature on campus. They intervened on behalf of a Christian student who had been prevented from including Biblical references in their public high school yearbook.

Sure, they've defended other religions, too (which I suspect is your real problem with them), like a Muslim firefighter who was defended from having to shave his beard against his religion to keep his job with the city, or a Mormon kid who wore a T-shirt with a religious statement on it to his public school and was asked to go home.

The point is that they are one of the few organizations in this country who truly and simply protect the constitutional rights of everyone, no matter if they are a child molester, a mentally handicapped person, or an Average Joe.

To hate them is completely insane and it shows that you're just listening to one-sided political punditry which spews hate about the things the ACLU has defended that they don't like. Or, it shows that you're willing to overlook the good work they do because you hate some of the people they defend. Do you hate public defenders, too? People who defend and blind themselves to the fact that the person they're defending may be incredibly abhorrent and disgusting as a human being? The whole point is that no matter the person, no matter the situation, the ACLU is there to protect the Constitution and the people the Constitution protects. To say they are evil is so incredibly ignorant, it's sad.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

I know mine's a repost of my earlier post, but I honestly want to know how some people can reconcile the good work the ACLU does on behalf of Christians to help Christians exercise their faith to the fullest amount allowed under the Constitution with the fact that political pundits say the ACLU is anti-Christian. I completely do not understand that, other than to think you just don't know much about the ACLU, its work, and its history, and you get all your information from vitriolic right-wing pundits.

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

Sorry, I meant to add this. If you don't like some of the people the ACLU defends, that's fine. They defend the Nazis, and I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks the Nazis are good people. The point of it is they defend ANYONE whose rights have been curtailed. How can you have a problem with that?

drewdun 11 years, 1 month ago

"jimincountry (Anonymous) says:

The aclu is like National Public Radio and Public Television:::.socialist agendas with a cover of altruism."

Reason 5,456,354 that right-wingers are a joke. "Socialist agendas with a cover of altruism?" You're killing me, smalls.

Here's what NPR would sound like if jim were in charge:

"In other news today, our GLORIOUS LEADER, President George Walker Bush, defended another attack from the traitor Democrat Party, while simultaneously explaining why we must defeat the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them over here. If its good enough for the GLORIOUS LEADER, why heck, Carl, its good enough for me. Research, facts, other opinions? Meh. The LEADER'S words are all the facts and opinions I need. Now to Lackshme Singh for weather. Lackshme?

Alright, Carl, we have sunny skies and temps in the 70s for the God-fearing red states, while the wicked Northeast and the Left Coast can expect hurricanes, tornados, wildfires, and heaping helping of brimstone for their evil, effete, Volvo-driving, reality-loving ways. Back to you, Carl."

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

"kneejerkreaction (Anonymous) says:

Crisp., among the various sects of shiites, sunnis and the MANY derivatives of said, we have them either killing us or one another. What do you believe are the redemptive features of fanatacism? All I know is that for all the good the middle east does for the rest of the world, it should just fall off the ends of the earth and take its backwards, screwed up religious goofballs with it. The middle east gets WAY more attention than it deserves or merits."

Thanks for proving what an idiot you are. There are a vast number of Muslims the world over. Apparently Spain, Egypt, Indonesia, so and so forth must also then fall off the Earth.
You just showed what a racist, elitist, Euro-centric DB you really are. Thanks! Now I know for sure you are not worth arguing with. Ignorance is one thing, but choosing to be ignorant is just plain stupid.

Crispian Paul 11 years, 1 month ago

Bottom line, if you are not being forced to wash your feet, your rights are not being violated. There are plenty of prayer stations in public places for Christians and (hopefully) you all don't expect that people must pray there or leave?

bugmenot 11 years, 1 month ago

Seriously, did you read my comments? I don't think the Christian guy locked up for witnessing on a public street was high profile.

You're just reiterating what Bill O'Reilly & Co are telling you to think. Think for yourself! You never know when an over-zealous prosecutor might come after you or someone you care about and trample your rights. You might need the ACLU to step in for you.

Nick Yoho 11 years, 1 month ago

Altruism; behavior by an animal that may be to its disadvantage but that benefits others of its kind, as a warning cry that reveals the location of the caller to a predator.

Not a bad thing.Big brother is the predator,ie:Corporatism You can see why they get beat up by the powers that be. we got the fox watchin the hen house,and the ACLU has a shotgun.

socialism : An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity. There are many varieties of socialism. Some socialists tolerate capitalism, as long as the government maintains the dominant influence over the economy; others insist on an abolition of private enterprise. All communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists.

Well the Cooperation part, I think ,is one idea we should take from the socialist model.If we don't stop competing,and start cooperating soon,we will use up all the resources,and pollute beyond habitability! Many don't care,as the problem is gradual,festering over time,it will affect their kids not them.Talk about sad.

drewdun 11 years, 1 month ago

"Pilgrim (Anonymous) says:

P.S. Nothing has changed since Baldwin wrote those words. The goal of the ACLU is still the same as it ever was."

Nice try for the save. Unfortunately you blew it, again.

Hell, you could play for the Royals.

Jamesaust 11 years, 1 month ago

I don't disagree that some are outright silly about religion - e.g., suing cities like Los Angeles that include "Christian" symbols when those symbols are simply the historic basis for the founding and naming of the 'City of the Angels.'

But, by the same token, despite the likes of Bill O'Reilly, et al., I'm not noticing this "war" on Christians. In my neighborhood, Christians do not cower in hiding for fear of attack from pagan deathsquads roaming the streets .... only anything like that.

The practical test developed over decades regarding government and religion is whether the action "unnecessary entangles" government with religion. I'm at a loss how providing a faucet for water entangles much of anything regardless of the underlying motivation. Government offices are, almost without exception, closed on Sundays. That's not merely a practical matter but one founded upon a religious notion that Sunday is a "holy" day. Nevertheless, someone who doesn't think Sunday is a "holy" day is not, to any measurable extent, put upon by the office closure. Likewise, unless the water faucets are ONLY of use for religious purposes or if EVERYONE was being forced to partake in footwashing, there's no 'there' here - and its a poor example and a poor letter.

stuckinthemiddle 10 years, 11 months ago

I believe the ACLU, as with most of their cases, is representing an individual that is suing the city of Slidell.

but then... people get that wrong all the time...

Christian Hinton 10 years, 11 months ago

Agnostick makes a good point again (much earlier.)

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FredFlash 10 years, 8 months ago

Separation of Church and State is a myth. It is not in the Constitution.

The proposed foot baths for Islamic worship do not established a national church, like the Church of England. Thus, there would be no violation of the Constitution. Besides, the First Amendment applies only against Congress. Also, you can't prohibit Muslims from using public hand washing sinks because it would be a prohibition against the free exercise of religion.

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