An incident early Sunday outside the Thai House in the 700 block of Massachusetts Street resulted in a Kansas University football player being listed as a victim in a gun-pointing incident. The incident is the latest of several involving guns in downtown Lawrence.
Downtown safety
- Citylooks at downtown safety issues (03-14-07)
- Gunpenalties, license system a challenge for commissioners (03-10-07)
- Draftordinance from City of Lawrence Legal Services
- Mayorseeks stricter gun law (02-22-07)
- Cityasks state for advice on bar safety (01-30-07)
- Closingtime (01-27-07)
- Planwould require new bars to get permits (01-20-07)
Downtown disturbance includes KU football players
Police release more information tonight that large disturbance in downtown over the weekend. Enlarge video
A weekend incident involving a gun and an out-of-control crowd is resurrecting concerns about quelling downtown violence.
"It's something I still feel very strongly that we have to deal with," Lawrence Mayor Mike Amyx said. "We've got to make these folks understand that we cannot tolerate having guns downtown."
A Kansas University football player is listed as the victim in a gun-pointing incident that occurred shortly after 2 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Massachusetts Street, according to court and police records.
Cornerback Aqib M. Talib was riding in a truck driven by former KU football player Mark F. Simmons when it was backed out of a parking space and then was surrounded by a crowd. Aubrey E. Gilbert, 23, of Lawrence, allegedly pointed a gun at Talib. Gilbert was struck and run over by the truck, according to police accounts.
Police later found Gilbert sitting in a nearby vehicle, and he told them he didn't want medical treatment. Police found Gilbert had an empty holster and a handgun underneath a seat in a car that he was in.
He allegedly became uncooperative with officers and was arrested and booked into the Douglas County Jail. He was charged with felony aggravated assault Monday and is now free on $10,000 bond.
Douglas County District Attorney Charles Branson said an investigation is continuing.
"There are no charges at this time," Branson said. "As we review the (police) reports as they come in, that may have a bearing on our decision."
String of incidents
In addition to the gun incident, a series of verbal and physical altercations were taking place outside the Thai House, 724 Mass. At one point, a crowd of up to 30 people surrounded the truck Talib and Simmons were in and attempted to pull them out, police said.
What happened outside Thai House early Sunday was the latest in a string of violent downtown incidents that have occurred during the past couple of years.
Guns have been confiscated from vehicles parked outside Last Call, a nightclub at 729 N.H., around the block from Thai House.
Richie Caldon, owner of Thai House, said there were no problems inside his business that night.
"This was something that happened outside my facility," Caldon said. "The people instigating this are not people I choose to bring into my facility."
Thai House had been closed about 30 minutes when the brawls started, Caldon said. He said his patrons had been harassed after they left the club by others who were on the street and driving by.
"People were going up and down the street, driving on the wrong side of the road, taunting the people out in front of our building," Caldon said.
Thai House sometimes turns into a nightclub about 11 p.m., Caldon said, usually for private events that often include KU student groups, he said.
"We have a very strict dress code," Caldon said. "People have to wear collared shirts. There are no hats turned sideways and no baggy pants."
Caldon said he is shutting down the nightclub operation for now and will focus on the restaurant side of the business.
"I don't want anything like this to happen in front of my building again," Caldon said.
Curbing violence
The weekend incident comes on the heels of recent discussions at City Hall about a number of proposals for curbing downtown violence. Earlier this month, the City Commission voted to make it illegal to carry a weapon within 200 feet of a drinking establishment unless a person has a concealed-carry permit or meets other specific exemptions.
Amyx said he had met with Police Chief Ron Olin and City Manager Dave Corliss to discuss the latest downtown trouble.
"The vast majority of the time, downtown is safe," Amyx said. "We just have these incidents pop up. Our goal is to have things in place to deal with these problems."
Caldon plans to open a nightclub at the former Moon Bar, 821 Iowa. He is leasing that building, which is undergoing remodeling. He isn't sure when the club will open.
The Moon Bar gained notoriety in 2005 when former KU basketball player J.R. Giddens was cut in a melee outside the building. Caldon said he isn't concerned about the building's past.
"It will be a controlled environment and a safe environment for college students to come and have a good time and be safe," he said.
Comments
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srj (anonymous) says…
Let's face it. No place is really safe when the bars let out at 2AM. Not just Lawrence.
gabbo (anonymous) says…
SRJ: Not true. Look at 911 usage per club. Some are as safe as you grandmother's house. Should Richie be able to open the old stabbin' gallery at the Viliage Inn-Corral? If an over priced noodle shop with the illegal liquor license for club (55/45) can host this debauchery, should he get a full license in a md-town neighborhood?
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
"Caldon said he is shutting down the nightclub operation for now and will focus on the restaurant side of the business."
..
Yea. There are no problems "inside" the club. Uh-huh. Yup.
..
Oldgoof has been hearing that this place has been a problem waiting to happen. It should not be a surprise to Mr. Caldon either.
preebo (anonymous) says…
This is what happens in states that pass Conceal and Carry laws. Good going Kansas. It has been shown that states, which have these types of laws on the books, experience a higher murder rate involving firearms.
Normally when a person would get into an altercation it would result in a physical fracas, but now that same individual may be carrying a handgun and the issue can escalate rather fast. Sometimes even resulting in fatal injury.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
Preebo, I guess if "this is what happens" in concealed carry states, it's happening everywhere. Did you know that 48 states allow concealed carry (with varying degrees of restriction)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceale...
Anyway, I still feel perfectly safe downtown at night... but I don't go to bars with a reputation for gun-toting and violence, and I go home when the bar closes if not before.
preebo (anonymous) says…
dulcinea47,
As a matter of fact I do know that, but the "varying degrees of restriction" portion of your argument is a large part of the issue here. Because Kansas is a "May-Issue" state rather than a "Shall-Issue" state. May-Issue restrictions are far less restrictive. There are only 35 "May-Issue" states in the union, and they all have higher homicide rates involving handguns.
Don't believe me? Go to the FBI's website and lookup conceal and carry laws for your own edification.
jayhawker4653 (anonymous) says…
Preebo - You are a liberal hippy. If you honestly think these gang bangers are going through the process to carry a concealed weapon, you are an idiot. The people who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon are the good guys.
jafs (anonymous) says…
We need to get serious about making downtown safe again.
thare (anonymous) says…
So no one has touched on the absolutely absurd notion that people who wear baggy pants and sideways hats are responsible for violence, and that even if this were the type of person that did commit crimes, wearing a collard shirt would change all that?
blue73harley (anonymous) says…
Hmmm...I missed the part of the article that said Gilbert (or anyone else caught with a gun downtown) had a CCL. Or is Preebo just making an ASSumption?
dizzy_from_your_spin (anonymous) says…
Preebo, Gilbert is licensed for CCW? Where did you derive this information? Or are you under the misguided assumption that the CCW law allows anyone to carry at will? Or are you just another opportunistic gun grabber that likes to spew the rhetoric whenever some lawbreaker uses a gun? (Speaking of which, I'm STILL waiting for the steets of Kansas to run red with blood as the result of ccw--hahaha, that was a good one!)
jayhawker4653 (anonymous) says…
Scenebooster (also directed to the other hippy Preebo) - So 1750 individuals in Florida who were licensed to carry a firearm had a criminal past. Obviously that is a flaw in the system that needs to be corrected. Seeing how that has nothing to with the debate, please try again. A way to shut me up would be to find some data on how many criminals that were convicted of assault, attempted murder or murder with a gun did so while legally carrying a gun. I am willing to concede defeat if even 1% of these individuals who were convicted were legally carrying the weapon used. Again the people who legally conceal a weapon are the "good guys". Game, set, match.
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
In Vermont, if you can legally own a gun, you can carry it concealed. No permit is needed. And we all know how Vermont is the murder capital of America, don't we?
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
Scenebooster, wouldn't that be the state's fault for allowing them concealed carry licenses? I assume the state didn't seek them out and hand them c.c. licenses. Anybody can apply... the process is then supposed to weed out those who shouldn't be carrying.
jayhawker4653 (anonymous) says…
Scenebooster. This is the state of Florida we are talking about. That means that 0.427% of all people who had permits to legally carry a gun in Florida had a criminal past. That is 0.427% too many. But 0.427% is not a huge number. How many of those have been revoked once it was figured out? Is that percentage now 0.1%? I am still waiting to hear what percentage of all criminals who committed a gun related assault, attempted murder or murder did so while legally carrying a gun. No answer yet? Maybe because you know I am right. Hippies crack me up. You got to love them.
maxcrabb (anonymous) says…
when i started reading this article, i got confused.
Why did 30 people surround a truck full of two huge men? Why were people "driving on the wrong side of the road, yelling at (Thai House) customers" and why were the police not called then?
Why did it take a guy pulling a gun and getting run over to call the police.
You know my solution, brick over mass street and make a ped mall. put a foot patrol or two in there, hell, maybe even send in the bike cops.
but that will never happen...
purplesage (anonymous) says…
Maybe alcohol is the problem? Anybody think of that?
jayhawker4653 (anonymous) says…
This comes from John Stossel of ABC. It is from 2005 so please read with that in mind:
".........A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed. It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control. They're allowing citizens to carry guns with them, it's called concealed carry or right to carry. Some women say they're comforted by these laws. But many people, including Rev. Al Sharpton, are horrified at the idea of concealed carry laws, and predict mayhem if all states adopt these laws. But surprise, 36 states already have concealed carry laws; and not one reported an upsurge in gun crime."
preebo (anonymous) says…
I find it particularly interesting that you all have labeled me a hippy, while I am a card carrying member of the NRA. Yes, that's right I am liscensed gun owner, but I strongly disagree with the conceal and carry laws.
...and I like how no one argued the evidence. Has anyone gone to the FBI's website? It would appear no one here has.
preebo (anonymous) says…
Why is it that people, mostly Right-Wingers, feel that the 2nd Amendment is the only one that should exist unabridged?
roger_o_thornhill (anonymous) says…
"We've got to make these folks understand that we cannot tolerate having guns downtown."
...but drunken morons are OK by us!!!$$$ Drink up boy-os.
"We have a very strict dress code," Caldon said. "People have to wear collared shirts. There are no hats turned sideways and no baggy pants."
...because heaven knows well dressed people don't do anything wrong...and only people who wear baggy pants and sideways hats are involved in violent activities.
...and how the hell did this thread turn into a conceal and carry discussion. Seems like the main topics to discuss would be the decline of downtown, the decline of society in general, and the idiocy of people like Mr. Caldon here. Does he remind you of anyone else who owns business downtown? (think Schumm)
I don't see why there can't be at least two cops on each of the blocks downtown from 1-3am on the Lawrence weekend (wed. thru sun.). I applaude the efforts of the copper in this incident, but I only see cops walking the beat when KU goes to the Final Four or NCAA Championship. This ain't a quaint little picturesque town. It is one with problems like any other. And another thing about downtown--I went down there yesterday morning and it was kind of gross. It stank on most of the blocks of Mass. I mean bad too. And it was trashed. Worse than campus. Makes me think twice about heading down there which isn't fair to the businesses that have nothing to do with the trash or the stink. For the most part, I don't consider downtown after noon. Used to be after dark, but what can I say...
Other cities can pull off what Lawrence is trying to do with downtown, why can't this town?
jayhawker4653 (anonymous) says…
Sceneboostern and Preebo - You guys are some characters. I unfortunately am getting ready to board a plane. It has been entertaining to say the least. Thanks for free WIFI at KCI. I looked at the FBI site, but didn't find the info I was looking for. Again, to state what I am trying to argue. I am stating that 99% or more of individuals who can legally carry, never commit a gun related assault, attempted murder or murder. I am still waiting for some numbers to contradict this. As far as the ganger bangers on Mass Street, I highly doubt that they are legally carrying their guns. To everybody else. I apologize for getting off topic. I just like to argue with hippies.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
peebo, what are we supposed to be looking at, specifically, on the FBI's site?
Roger_o_T- I totally agree with you, more police presence downtown at night would be nice.
Um, the stink is usually coming from the river or from the old sewer systems under downtown, or from restaurant trash. Even if there were no criminals, no homeless, and no drunken college students it would still smell.
OnlyTheOne (anonymous) says…
Maxcrabb
"You know my solution, brick over mass street and make a ped mall. put a foot patrol or two in there, hell, maybe even send in the bike cops."
They tried that in downtown Kansas City, Kansas. Yes, it USED to be a thriving area. Go look at it now. There's no way I'd go walking there.
blue73harley (anonymous) says…
preebo - you continue to show your lack of knowledge regarding guns. Being a "card carrying member of the NRA" does not make you a "licensed gun owner". You don't need a license to be a gun owner. And you sure as heck don't support the NRA because they firmly believe in concealed carry.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
Hm, Hawk seems to want the cops out giving tickets instead of worrying about people carrying guns. I really don't think changing the parking situation is going to make people with violent tendencies any less so.
00jester (anonymous) says…
Perhaps the right to bare arms should be revisited. Not saying a problem wouldn't exist, but the fact that every Joe Schmo can get his hands on a gun is really the true problem.
But hey, we gotta protect ourselves from vermin, terrorist and deer. And if we have to lose several thousand Americans to guns every year, well hell, it's worth it.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
no more bars downtown and close the ones that were established after 2005. I'm sick of it. Is isn't going to change as long as this concealed weapons law is on the books and in operation. Look at Kansas City. Since they've established this law there have been more shooting in KC and they are escalating. take a lesson. i love downtown but in the 9 years I've lived in Lawrence it has changes. I use to walk downtown at night, not anymore. I'm too worried about getting shot.
SouthernBelle (anonymous) says…
Posted by hawkperchedatriverfront:
"Mr. Amyx, read these words: Institute paid parking on Mass at night and enforce it. After 2am, all cars must be removed from the street or will be towed. there are parking lots to be used that are not metered. Get the police out doing what they should be doing. "
Only one problem that I can see with that:
What about those people who have had too much to drink? Rather than take a cab or catch a ride with a friend, are they supposed to drive intoxicated just so their car won't get towed?
00jester (anonymous) says…
"I'm too worried about getting shot."
Lol, that's great...Overreact much?
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
Anybody who really thinks downtown Lawrence is scary needs a big dose of reality. I've said this before, but it bears repeating... I've been downtown at all hours of day and night, in varying states of sobriety and at various venues over the past ten years and never once felt that I was in danger. Annoyed by homeless people or by men yelling comments, maybe, but in danger, no. Certainly not afraid of getting shot.
Gotta love how society today fosters fear and paranoia where it's not warranted.
jrlii (anonymous) says…
You know, this is the first time I've heard of someone actually carrying out my plan for dealing with a carjacking attempt: Run the miscreant over. A ton or two of steel pushed by 150+ HP can be a powerful weapon, and I reckon I can aim my car a lot better than most criminals can a gun.
countrygirl (anonymous) says…
Do you really think outlawing guns is going to take the guns away from the criminals? Most of them can't legally own a gun now, but managed to get one through some shady source. Outlawing guns would only take guns away from the responsible, law abiding gun owners. And you're not getting any of mine!
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
Countrygirl said "Outlawing guns would only take guns away from the responsible, law abiding gun owners. "
Then how come countries where guns are illegal have lots less gun crime than the US?
weedwacker (anonymous) says…
You guys crack me up. Downtown has had it's problems long before the CCW law started. All those posters that think the CCW law is why downtown is getting so bad are living in their own little cubby hole. What do we blame all the problems on before the law was in effect? My daughter use to hang out downtown with friends when she was in high school, that was 10 years ago. They would meet down there to park and visit. Even back 10 years ago there was problems, we just told her to leave before midnight. It seemed that after midnight was when all the problems would come about. You're all crazy if you think that this is just now becoming a problem. Guess what, they death toll in KC actually was lower last year than the previous year. If a person that wants to get a gun wants one, no matter if they are good or bad, they will get one. Of course there are many around that would be more dangerous with a gun because they are not fully educated on how to handle one correctly. Those are the ones that scare me!!
00jester (anonymous) says…
Someone should look up the statistic about having a gun. You are something like 10 times more likely to be killed by a gun, most likely your own, if you own one.
But hey, if a moron thinks he needs a gun, cool, let him have it. Chances are he is part of checks and balances and will die by it.
Better yet, look up gun deaths in all of western europe and i'm sure we as one country have more deaths beacuse you don't have to do much to get a gun, criminal or not.
Simply said. Get rid of guns this isn't nearly the issue it is today.
Outsidelookingin (anonymous) says…
Opening a Nightclub at 821 Iowa will solve the entire problem. It's not downtown and guns therefore will be tolerated....
"It's something I still feel very strongly that we have to deal with," Lawrence Mayor Mike Amyx said. "We've got to make these folks understand that we cannot tolerate having guns downtown."
Crispian (Crispian Paul) says…
There is something strange I realized yesterday after the thread devolved into a racially/musically/culturally loaded debate. You can spend as much time as you want blaming music, particularly hip hop and rap.
However, when Tech N9ne was in town at Granada a few weeks ago (KC's version of a "hard core" rapper), my girlfriend went and stated that although the crowd was incredibly varied, there was not one single fight. That same night, some of my girlfriends and I went to the Sand Bar (you know the one, frat boys, sorority girls, definitely not your "typical" gangster types--since that's the assumption made by many on this forum). This was only my second time at the Sand Bar in the ten years I have lived here and I saw one of the worst, bloodiest, most brutal fights I have seen, and I grew up in Wichita and attend a good deal of hip hop shows. Point is, you cannot base your beliefs about crime on stereotypes.
Crispian (Crispian Paul) says…
Posted by Mr_Ramirez (anonymous) on March 28, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, scenebooster youre sooo p.c.
"i am stating that 99% or more of individuals who can legally carry, never commit a gun related assault, attempted murder or murder."
Sums it up Hawker
Back up please......
I am interested to know if this is true. My father committed a homicide and he was, indeed, a licensed and well trained multiple gun owner.
Crispian (Crispian Paul) says…
Posted by sunshine_noise (anonymous) on March 28, 2007 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
no more bars downtown and close the ones that were established after 2005. I'm sick of it. Is isn't going to change as long as this concealed weapons law is on the books and in operation. Look at Kansas City. Since they've established this law there have been more shooting in KC and they are escalating. take a lesson. i love downtown but in the 9 years I've lived in Lawrence it has changes. I use to walk downtown at night, not anymore. I'm too worried about getting shot.
Two thoughts:
1) Alarmist?! Really, downtown is not that unsafe. Unless you grew up in Hoxie or somewhere.
2) Prohibition anyone? I live near downtown and when I go out with friends, I often walk so as to not drive drunk. If the bars left downtown, I would either be very bored or breaking the law.
gabbo (anonymous) says…
Marion is right. Not a CCW issue at all. HawkperchedatLarnedStateHospital: You are going to spin off this planet...
ilovelucy (anonymous) says…
Sunshine: good golly. You sound like Doug Compton, who "feared for his family's life" when walking in downtown Lawrence at night. Get a grip!
Scenebooster: yes, more police would definitely be the answer. However, the powers that be say that they can't afford more police so the answer is to punish all and implement Corliss's ludicrous entertainment licensing law. Too bad the commission has decided that he is God. Apparently that is what his office has recommended. Not that I believe he would research any other alternatives. He's had his mind around this since the beginning, and what he says goes!
moderationman (anonymous) says…
People who fear for their life in downtown Larryville, or buy into the paranoia of such statements are laughable. When I worked in NYC I used to walk around at all hours and never once felt a fear for my life. And these folks are scared in Lawrence?
As for gun laws, what Marion and the 2nd amendment folk always fail to mention, is that the drop in gun violence coincides with two events not just one...event one was passage of the Brady act, event two was the increase in the number of conceal carry states. The key is not that you can conceal and carry, its what are the restrictions. For instance, in NYC it is almost impossible to get a license to carry, yet NY State is pointed to as a concealed carry state.
You are starting to see the true reason for murder rates going down now that the Brady Act has been gutted by the current administration. Murders across the US are increasing again. Cause and effect.
emilyhadley (Emily Hadley) says…
liberal hippy? gang bangers? hummers? progressives?
This is an incident outside a nightclub after hours involving young people posturing for status, power, and machismo. Talk about gun laws, police, or club security obligations... talk about anything, tactfully.
Name calling is how to start a fight, not the way to prevent them. If you are interested in keeping the peace downtown, why not start with civil conversation about the violence?
"tact - a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense"
-Merriam-Webster Dictionary
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
New York is a "may issue" state.
rez4prez (anonymous) says…
A couple of things. One, CCL holders are not usually reckless people. They know that it takes great responsibility to carry conceal. They also know that violating the responsibility can cost them their freedom (criminal charges/case) as well as monetary issues through a civil case. Second, I agree that downtown needs to be safer. However, imposing laws that don't have anything to do with the violence will continually having us miss the boat. Yes, guns and other weapons have been used in these situations. But, they have been used by criminals who would been carrying them anyway!!! So, do we just put big metal detectors at both ends of Mass. St to stop the violence? No, that is not a solution. It always seems like we respond to these situation the same (name-calling, and ignorance). Also, the last time I checked gangbangers are not the only criminal element in our society!!!
lynnd (anonymous) says…
Crispian,
I can assure you that the Sandbar is one of the safest bars in this town as well as one of the hardest for underage drinkers to get into. The average patrons there are a wide variety of older college students, blue collar workers, professional types, and others- of all ages.
If you saw a fight there recently, it was the first one in many years. I know there was an incident there recently involving a man from out of state punching someone. I assume this is the incident you are referring to, as it's the only thing that has even occurred there that could even be called an "incident" in the last several years.
That is definitely NOT the norm at this bar, it was an incredibly rare incident. And I can promise you I know that for a fact.
I feel very safe downtown and many of my friends who spend time downtown at night, whether for work or entertainment, do as well. I agree that there are specific problems that need to be addressed, but overall I think a lot of people are buying into the paranoia that articles such as this seem to generate.
lynnd (anonymous) says…
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the police, who in my opinion do a very good job, have much more important things to worry about than writing parking tickets.
I'd rather have our cops focus on real problems and not trivial things like that.
lynnd (anonymous) says…
I disagree that downtown is a dead commodity for most people.
I work downtown and spend a lot of other time outside normal working hours downtown, and it's far from dead, especially when the weather is nice. There are always people downtown, day and night.
badger (anonymous) says…
You know, Austin's got this big thing we call Sixth Street. Maybe you've heard of it; they have this music festival there named South by Southwest every year. Also, it's closed down several other times each year, and every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night when UT's in session about half the student population and a good chunk of the non-student population can be found there. It's got a higher concentration of bars, drunks, and pedestrians than about anywhere I've seen.
And yet, on a given night, you *don't* see stories about guns or people running over one another with their cars. When you go down there, you see drunken revelry, but no one getting shot, or beaten up. You also see three cops every half-block or so, including bike cops, horsey cops, and walkin' cops. Everywhere. A drunk can't hurl without splashing some officer's shoes. What do they do? Mostly they stand there. They say 'hey' to you if you say 'hey', smile at people walking by, let sorority girls pet their horses, and occasionally corral drunks or people getting a mite unruly.
Downtown Lawrence really needs a more visible police presence. They don't need jackbooted thugs out there, but I seem to recall that when I would come visit Lawrence in the 90s, there were cops out walking Mass St. most nights. I didn't see that so much ten years later. Sure, on the super-busy times like playoff games, there are cops on every corner, but what about just having a police presence in evidence from about 8 or 9 to 3 or so? Perhaps it'd make troublemakers think twice about starting something on Mass or New Hampshire if there were cops right there.
ilovelucy (anonymous) says…
If Corliss would only listen to people like you, Badger. That is exactly what downtown business owners have been telling him and the commissioners.
Unfortunately, I doubt he'll listen.
merrill (anonymous) says…
The mayor is not a tough mayor behind the tough talk. Amyx said. "We just have these incidents pop up.
Our goal is to have things in place to deal with these problems." When will this happen?
Bars may be great sources of revenue but at what cost to the citizen taxpayer and our quality of life?
*As I have said before go after the very few troubled night spots and leave everyone else alone.
*Put teeth into existing laws such as mandating the confiscation of vehicles until court dates and mandate stiff bond rates or hold them until court dates otherwise alleged criminals will not show for court dates. Impound vehicles until fines are paid.
*Then mandate enforcement of laws to the max.
* Level of enforcement is defined by the Chief Ron Olin.
* Find ways to take control of local bars away from the state.
CLL (anonymous) says…
Pink_Sock are you kidding, were you there? or do you know what alledgely means? obviously not, if there were 30 people out there why is it that ONLY the KU guys in the truck seen the gun?
You know I am tired of KS people thinking that KU football players are so innocent, I know people that are from Lawrence that was there and they said there was NO gun pulled including a person that was standing RIGHT next to Aubrey.
From what I understand these KU players came out making trouble and the police seen half of an incident and let the KU players leave. Actually, they always are making trouble with the Lawrence young adults.
Once again half truths and Lawrence KS residents overreacting.
Crispian (Crispian Paul) says…
lynnd,
That was kind of my point is that downtown is safer than most downtowns....I come from Wichita, where there is an actual, factual, daily crime issue downtown.
My other point was that fights and violence can happen anywhere, especially when alcohol is involved and this really has nothing to do with music.
I love that you said "if" I saw a fight at SandBar. I did, doubter. The four police officers there can attest to that. One guy was bleeding profusely from his face, covered in blood, the guy who hit him was covered in blood. There was a huge puddle of blood in the middle of the bar and blood splattered onto the seats we were sitting in. There were two police cruisers and later a paramedic.
Compy (anonymous) says…
>>Caldon said he is shutting down the nightclub
>>operation for now and will focus on the
>>restaurant side of the business.
>>"I don't want anything like this to happen in
>>front of my building again," Caldon said.
I think Caldon has the right idea. He knows what the "nightclub" operation was attracting. The laws are irrevlevant. I think if you play music about killing cops and smacking bitches, this sort of hit shouldn't be a surprise.
Crispian (Crispian Paul) says…
Posted by Compy (anonymous) on March 29, 2007 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
>>Caldon said he is shutting down the nightclub
>>operation for now and will focus on the
>>restaurant side of the business.
>>"I don't want anything like this to happen in
>>front of my building again," Caldon said.
I think Caldon has the right idea. He knows what the "nightclub" operation was attracting. The laws are irrevlevant. I think if you play music about killing cops and smacking bitches, this sort of hit shouldn't be a surprise.
Compy, refer back to the other threads on this topic.
Not all rap or hip hop talks about these things.
In fact, "Cop killer", which you refer to, was by the group Body Count, fronted by Ice-T.
The song was recorded in 1992 and included lyrics about beaten motorist Rodney King. The song was actually a reaction to and protest against police brutality and racially motivated actions.
Most hip-hop and rap nowadays is "pop rap" and does not reference much except women, booze and partying. Not much different that rock music.
One of the burgeoning forms of hip hop is so-called conscious rap.
Check out Common, KRS-One, even Nas.
"There is no peace without justice"-KRS-One
"What does the rich vs. poor really mean? Psychologically it means you got to pick your team...You and I got to unify. Stop the negativity and control our creativity"-KRS-One
"Good morning, this ain't Vietnam, still
people lose hands, legs, arms for real
Little was known of Sierra Leone,
and how it connects to the diamonds we own...Though it's thousands of miles away,
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here it's a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets the charms's
I thought my Jesus piece was so harmless
till I seen a picture of a shorty armless"-Kanye West (Diamonds from Sierra Leone, regarding the diamond trade in Sierra Leone and the violence connected to it)
"So when they say anything, say Why is it? Class is in session til the teacher gets a pink slip. 42 in class, no wonder we delinquent, half the school district never makes it to commencement"-Blue Scholars
"Mommy called crazy and scorned
'Cuz she two more born
One boy soon after
The girl much later and...
Although they were both sung the same lullabies of hate
Her...First Son, the first one
Whose...womb-world was profaned
Came of age playing street games
With Stewie, Rezzie, and Little Brother
'Till his heart start to wither
In pain and shame
Blamed Mom for the wrong she let Daddy do to her
And him...
Let...sins of the Father cause his Innocence to wander
Found out amongst thieves
Chose to squander his dreams
Stopped believing in himself
Become prodigal with his life"-The Roots
Boy, these thoughtful lyrics sure would incite violence right?
MegaMan (anonymous) says…
the fact of the situation is this.....
but before i even go into the details.... lemme tell you this..... the involvement of ku football players were the cause for the "alleged" gun pullin which resulted in a man getting ran over by a dodge truck.
the truck that passengered aqib tali-whatever the hell his name is and his friend.... pulled up to the group of men shoutin obscenities and making reference to how the people of lawrence kansas aren't s**t and how everybody should, "bow down" to those from texas. me supposing that that is where the young man is from.
but i've seen it countless times. a football player, or a person involved with ku athletics feel they have a holier than thou approach to each situation they get in with whenever it involves a local. a police officer will turn the other way for the athlete, but will crucify the local persons involved.
now what we should be asking ourselves as concernced members of the lawrence community is should we allow these kind of actions, or should i say lack of action by those who are supposed to protect these streets like our "wonderful" law enforcement.
and personally what i wanna know is, is if there was a gun involved. why wasn't the accused immediately apprehended after the cop received information of the involvement. instead of requesting those involved in the incident to go to their vehicle and leave only to be refused the right to leave the scene after being requested to do so.
this wasn't a gang activity, or any kind of gang involvement. it was simply a case of locals being threatened by ku athletes "out of their element"..... with locals re-acting with no gun involvement......In result a man gettin ran over by a Dodge 4x4 Ram Truck, and him getting arrested for it.
personally i believe that if there was a gun involved and in fact the man did point it at the "victims" then i figure getting ran over by a truck is a fair trade for pointin a gun at somebody.
badger (anonymous) says…
Hawk?
You would think that perched at the riverfront, you'd have noticed that most of the traffic tickets are written by meter maids. They're the ones who drive around in their little trucks and chalk your tires so you have to leave work to move your freakin car every two hours because your employer can't provide off-street parking for the whole office.
You see the occasional cop out there on the first of the month writing tickets for expired tags, but really, it's those nice (usually older) ladies in their little white shirts and blue pants, not the police, who handle parking enforcement.
Don't bother with the tickets and the metered parking after dark. Just put cops out there, walking around, talking to people, interacting, checking out the alleys every once in a while, from the courthouse to 6th and from Kentucky over to New Hampshire. It wouldn't hurt some of the fellas I saw to get some exercise walking an actual beat.