Archive for Thursday, February 15, 2007

Church and state

February 15, 2007

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To the editor:

I was raised to believe in God and our Lord Jesus Christ, and I still do. I feel that God loves everyone on Earth regardless of what your beliefs are.

Now what really upsets me is churches from their pulpits telling their masses how to vote. If they want to be involved in politics, maybe they should start paying taxes. Think how that would help our economy.

Church and politics should always remain separate!

Teresa Bergschneider,

Lawrence

Comments

busymom 8 years, 5 months ago

Amen to that. Isn't that what freedom of religion is all about? Our government shouldn't pass bills, laws ect. that are religiously based

busymom 8 years, 5 months ago

You are free to your beliefs, I am free to mine. That's what America is about.....well supposed to be anyway.

KS 8 years, 5 months ago

I don't believe I have ever seen the words, "separation of church and state" in the Constitution.

Busymom, should the government then pass laws that are totally based upon no moral values? Like making robbery, murder, lying, cheating, etc. all legal? Some society to live in, huh?

preebo 8 years, 5 months ago

While "separation of church and state' is not referred to in the Constitution it is expressed in American jurisprudence. There have been numerous legal battles that have paved the way for religious freedom in our country. If we were a nation solely based on "Natural Law" (God's Law) then we would operate similar to nation-states like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

It is amazing how we look toward moderate or secular Arab states as allies when it comes to conflicts in the Middle-East, but when it comes to American domestic policy certain people would not be content until we are operating under a Christian theocracy. I don't know, but that seems completely hypocritical.

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 5 months ago

"If (churches) want to be involved in politics, maybe they should start paying taxes."

High time the unions start paying taxes then.

Kodiac 8 years, 5 months ago

"I don't believe I have ever seen the words, "separation of church and state" in the Constitution." -- KS

How about anything about the bible or maybe the 10 commandments? In fact can you find anything in the US Constitution or Declaration of Independence about anything concerning Christianity (specifically)? The idea that our nation was founded on Christianity is completely wrong and a blantantly false PR campaign by the fundies. There may be references to a Creator but these are strictly generic and do not refer to any specific religion. Most of our Founding Fathers were desits who were not bible-believing christians. Thomas Jefferson even rewrote the bible to create something called the Jefferson Bible which removed references to any miracles and resurrection and ends with Jesus being buried. Separation of church and state is what our founding fathers wanted for our nation and this attempt by the fundamentalists to distort history must be exposed for the fraud that it is and not allowed.

KayCee 8 years, 5 months ago

"Churches need to pay taxes." That's called 'double taxation', people pay tax and then support the church, which means their money is taxed again. Let's keep this logical and fair.

"High time the unions start paying taxes then." Now there is a group that IS really involved in politics, but are they 'nonprofit' or what is their status?

BOE 8 years, 5 months ago

Posted by KS on February 15, 2007 at 7:30 a.m.

"I don't believe I have ever seen the words, "separation of church and state" in the Constitution."

===

James Madison, known as the "Father of the Constitution" and the driving force behind the passing and ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, saw it.

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."

-- James Madison

Tom McCune 8 years, 5 months ago

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...." One of the wisest and bravest things written in the history of the world. Thank you Teresa for supporting the freedom and independence of BOTH sides of the equation just like the framers intended. "Establishment of religion" is just 18th century lingo for separation of church and state.

As far as the deists go, George Washington was one, for Pete's sake. He was never baptized in any church (at least as an adult) and never took communion. He ATTENDED church with Martha, but always got up and left with the other deists before communion, which they regarded as a pagan or near-pagan rite.

GW made frequent references to things like "the creator" but shunned the man-made trappings of organized religion.

Jamesaust 8 years, 5 months ago

"I don't believe I have ever seen the words, "separation of church and state" in the Constitution."

Sure you have. Separation of chuch and state is the "marketing slogan" for "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

You can read, can't you?

What's fascinating is that every goofball who says things like "I don't believe I have ever seen the words, "separation of church and state" in the Constitution" invariably also argues that the preamble to the Second Amendment regarding gun rights - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" - doesn't mean exactly what it says - "well regulated".

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

"Posted by KayCee (anonymous) on February 15, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Churches need to pay taxes." That's called 'double taxation', people pay tax and then support the church, which means their money is taxed again. Let's keep this logical and fair."

What about churches like Falwell's and Graham's, who bear far more resemblence to corporations (selling the intangible product Salvation) than to non-profit churches and other entities? Can we tax them?

Pretty please?

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

Dambudzo: Wouldn't sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes etc reach the government in about the same time, since, to the best of my knowledge, it's generally an adjustment made by corporations and then paid out in tax at a later date?

Besides, why would liberals in our govt. care about waiting for money to come in in taxes when there are they can just get a loan by selling a few million bonds? We're not trillions in debt byour govt. waiting for taxes to come in before spending money.

"Could you imagine, after you win the lottery, a Liberal waiting to get their "cut" from the taxes their going to receive by you spending some of it on a trip to the grocery store?"

Now that's just silly. Surely you can do better than that.

busymom 8 years, 5 months ago

Well said for those that copied/pasted the constitution. I was busy (hence the name) most of the day yesterday so did not have a chance to post it myself nor bring up our first amendment which entails FREEDOM of religion. Hence we do not have a unified religion and therefore the gov't cannot pass bills/laws/ect with a religion base. As for making murder, stealing, raping legal....get real and grow up. Thanks.

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