Letters to the Editor

God’s law

February 13, 2007

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To the editor:

Concerning Senate Bill 163 and Scott Rothschild's article of Jan. 7, "Panel considers sexual-orientation discrimination ban," and Forrest Swall's letter to the editor, "Denying reality," on Jan. 9 in the Journal-World:

¢ God's laws supersede man's laws, so the court's decision defining the immutability of our sexual preference as mentioned by Thomas Witt of the Kansas Equality Coalition has no merit.

¢ Also, there is undeniable evidence to support the truth that gays can change their sexual behavior. See Desert Stream (www.desertstream.org), Exodus International (www.exodus-international.org) and I Corinthians 6:9-10 for current and past examples of those who did change. In all instances, faith in Jesus Christ provides the power to change.

¢ Justice and fairness is determined by God (not by Swall et al.) as revealed in his word. It condemns homosexuality (not the person) and other forms of sexual perversion. However, the person who chooses to not believe in Jesus is already condemned (see John 3:18) although it is God's desire that no one should perish (John 3:16 and II Peter 3:9).

¢ What other item in the list for the proposed law deals with a "sin issue," except the recommended addition of sexual orientation? To discriminate means to single out a particular group for special favor or disfavor. It would be a disfavor to acknowledge sin as right in any law.

Carl Burkhead,

Lawrence

Comments

paladin 8 years, 3 months ago

A person must feel overwhelmed and very blessed to serve in the exalted capacity of God's lawyer. You'd think it would make one humble, rather than just dopey.

Porter 8 years, 3 months ago

I can quote scripture, too:

Romans II: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

I guess that would make you gay, Carl. Don't worry, though. I won't discriminate against you.

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

I do hate it when bigotry and hatred tries to disguise itself as a religous person.

number3of5 8 years, 3 months ago

Do you people who post here claim to be Christian?

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

Sorry, the middle ages are over. The church doesn't run the government anymore, although lord knows shrub and his crew are sure trying.

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

"God's law supersedes man's law"

Isn't that a quote from a tv movie starring Valerie Bertinelli?

paladin 8 years, 3 months ago

Momma always used to tell me, "Son, Christian is as Christian does."

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Tychoman: No, no. It can't be post, because post is already the word for the one comment, not to mention the verb of putting the comment into the commentariat. More words are needed!

Tom McCune 8 years, 3 months ago

For all her quoting of scripture, I wish she had quoted some of Jesus's saying on the matter. Oops... wait a minute.... Jesus is never quoted as saying one word about homosexuality.

Bradley Kemp 8 years, 3 months ago

I find it interesting when people like Burkhead, in an effort to appear unbigoted, say that god condemns homosexual acts -- but not the people who engage in them.

If I'm gay, and I have gay sex, and I keep having gay sex and don't even try to stop having gay sex, Burkhead's god will condemn not me but the act of my having gay sex. What consequence is there to that? Is god going to keep me out of heaven? Well, no ... that would be condemning me, which Burkhead's god doesn't do.

In fact, Burkhead and the god he imagines do condemn "the person," which is why they're bigots.

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

"Do you people who post here claim to be Christian?"

I believe God loves everyone who is a righteous person. I don't hate any particular religion or person, and believe everyone should have equal rights under the law.

I was raised a Christian, so yes, I claim to be a Christian woman. You may not agree, but I am not worried about what you think.

gabbo 8 years, 3 months ago

Which website did Ted Haggard go to? Desert stream or exodus? Get a life.

staff04 8 years, 3 months ago

I saw the movie "Jesus Camp" last week. If you want some insight into how many of these folks get to the point that Carl has, I'd highly recommend you watch it.

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

Ye without sin, cast the first rock and smoketh "Dave Chapelle"

gabbo 8 years, 3 months ago

"I believe I also tasted eggs and cinnamon."

Alia Ahmed 8 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

temperance 8 years, 3 months ago

Come on! Quit making fun of Crazy Carl. He's got a point. In fact, . . .

. . . Burkhead doesn't mention this, but there's an obscure passage buried in Ephesians that goes into all manner of detail regarding sexual-orientation classifications, discrimination, and applicable 14th amendment jurisprudence. It's all there. God was quite clear on the proposed Kansas law. Now if only he'd give us some guidance on the city library . . . I think there might be something in the Book of Daniel . . .

gabbo 8 years, 3 months ago

I believe there is something in Leviticus about bestiality and round-abouts.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 3 months ago

"God's laws supersede man's laws"

Damn, too bad Jesus didn't didn't sign and ratify the Constitution. I've seen it. He didn't.

Guess that makes old Carl a traitor to America and to the Constitution.

Carl, you and the rest of the Christian Taliban should go live in a country like Saudi Arabia or Iran, where "God's laws supersede man's laws".

caveatguy 8 years, 3 months ago

Carl is also well known for his rants against floridation of public water supplies.... that is probably in the bible somewhere too somehow, you know.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 8 years, 3 months ago

THe bible was written by men, not God. Our representations of the Divine Power are all from human interpretation. ALL SCRIPTURE was written by the hands of men (or perhaps, God forbid, women) . The bible is a collection of human notions of the Divine Power. It has meaning to those who believe, and faith is a most important expression of the HUMAN condition. But not all are followers, not all are believers of the same religious myth, and to say that "God's law" (i.e. man's notion of God"s law) is supreme is a myth. Millions have been victimized by these notions used by men who's prejudices and vicious rage have been fueled by their "faith" in their notion of some Divine Power.

The truth is. NONE of us has any notion of the nature and scope of the Divine Power some of us refer to as God. NONE of us has the right to impose our religious mumbo jumbo on others. NONE of us can claim superior right over others due to our notion of religious myth. It isthat simple

craigers 8 years, 3 months ago

Newell_Post said: "For all her quoting of scripture, I wish she had quoted some of Jesus's saying on the matter. Oops... wait a minute.... Jesus is never quoted as saying one word about homosexuality."


Actually Christ had a lot to say about homosexuality. He said "I and the Father are one." Then in John it says "The word was with God and the Word was God." The scripture's are God's word to us which means everything in it, he spoke through the men that wrote it. And if Jesus and the Father are one, then it goes without saying that the Word (Bible) is what Jesus speaks on the subjects. Don't think that just because there are no quotes around the many scriptures discussing homosexuality, that Jesus didn't speak against it.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 8 years, 3 months ago

Obanillary, your post tells me all I need to know about you, and since you are so easily influanced, you may send me tribute care of thie newspaper.

The'greatist minds of mankind" are no more relevant than your own mind, the Divine gave you the power of intelligence. Learn to use it.

You obviously need no self help, you already seem to have the cherished power of self illumination, as I do.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 3 months ago

"So a christian is a bigot. What's a person called that dislikes christians?

Oh wait, a bigot."

Putting words in mouths is a favorite past time. Carl happens to a christian AND a bigot.

What do you call someone who hates bigots?

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 3 months ago

Obamillary seems to think that judgment of anyone based upon their stated beliefs is "bigotry".

No, this is making a rational judgment of someone based upon what they themselves express as their beliefs.

Bigotry is judging based upon assumptions of stereotypes.

Carl is an idiot because of what he says, not because he is a christian.

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

I don't have bigotry against CHristians. I have a dislike(no, not even a dislike - I just don't understand how someone could seem so hateful) against those who say they are Christians, but have a bigotry and hate against others who are different; who want to deny rights for others who are different than them.

yellowhouse 8 years, 3 months ago

There are many Gay Christians. They understand Jesus died and shed his blood on the cross for them, Just as he died for all those who accept him as their Lord and Savior. That is the ONLY requirement to go to Heaven!

Romans 3:23 ALL have sinned and ALL fall short of the glory of God!

No one is good, but God alone Luke 18:19

The Lord looks down from heaven on humankind to see if there are any who are wise, who seek after God. They have ALL gone astray, they are ALL alike perverse; there is no one who does good, no not one. Ps 14:2-3

Every man, with every sin he commits is the same in Gods eyes! Corinthians 15:22: "As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive"

therealview 8 years, 3 months ago

Wow.

Last time I checked, a poop hole was for pooping. A vagina was for reproduction.

If you want to be gay, great. Maybe the whole world should be gay, and life will end with no one procreating...wake up.

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

"Chrisianity neither is, nor ever was a part of common law"

Thomas Jefferson

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

therealview "obviously your not a golfer"

The Dude

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

Funny how the anti-gay crowd always ignore the fact that plenty of straight couples practice sodomy, when their arguments always eventually devolve to "sodomy is icky".

mick 8 years, 3 months ago

It is obsession, not oppression that the legislators have to deal with every year. If one tells me they were fired because of their orientation, I would not believe it. Their behavior, yes. Specifically, the inability to focus on anything but their sexuality for more than three minutes. No matter what law you enact, these people will never be satisfied because they are obsessed.

therealview 8 years, 3 months ago

Sodomy is wrong...across the board....gay or straight. My comments still stand regarding procreation.

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

What about infertile couples? Women past menopause? Are you suggesting they should refrain from sex because they can't procreate?

therealview 8 years, 3 months ago

Don't try to twist my comments, deec. I did not say anything about having or not having sex. Your jumping to conclusions to attempt to miss the point.

I stated that if everyone was gay, who would procreate? I did not state that you can only have sex to procreate.

Sodomy is wrong...a poop chute is not designed for anything else....but poop.

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

You also said "a vagina is for reproduction." Then you state that sodomy is wrong. So if a woman can't reproduce, what difference does it make which hole is accessed? I think the world has plenty of people without access to birth control; we are in no danger of dying out as a species. A simple google search shows straight oral sex hits-1.46 million gay oral sex hits-1.9 million

Sodomy includes oral.

Emily Hadley 8 years, 3 months ago

Carl Burkhead again??

God's laws don't supercede man's laws until each man (or other human) leaves Earth and faces their chosen judgment. Until then, here on Earth, we have separation of church and state as well as freedom of religion.

denak 8 years, 3 months ago

".... Also, there is undeniable evidence to support the truth that gays can change their sexual behavior. See .... Exodus International (www.exodus-international.org) .....current ....examples of those who did change..."

I doubt if the writer of this particular editorial is aware that the two homosexual men who founded Exodus International feel in love and left the organization.

As for a person's ability to change their sexual orientation. I strongly doubt it. Most of the cases that I have heard that involved a homosexual man changing his sexual orientation has involved men who were sexually abused as children and have issues stemming from the abuse. Children who are sexually abuses sometimes feel pleasure during the abuse. This does not mean that they ENJOY or want abuse only that our bodies are designed to react to certain stimuli and if touched in certain places, you body responds. In adult consentual sexual relationships, this is a good thing. For the child, however, it creates a great deal of confusion, repulsion, shame and guilt. The child thinks that since his or her body reacted a certain way, then that means the he or she enjoyed it. If the perp is of the opposite sex, the child will then associate all this guilt, shame etc with the sex act and turn away from that gender and seek comfort/love/relationships with people of the same gender in order to feel safer.It is very difficult for children who have been abused to trust enough to let their guard down. This is especially true for some children who have been sexually abused.

This is NOT what "normal" homosexual and lesbians do. They love/want/need to have a relationship with someone of the same sex because that is WHO THEY ARE. For them, falling in love with someone who is the same gender, is embracing themselves. It isn't a repudiation of who they are.

For some children who are sexually abused, getting involved in same sex relationships is a way to protect themselves and to repudiate anything they perceive as threatening ie sexual relationships with someone of the opposite gender.

This is where I think all these so-called sexual orientation transformations come from. People who have been abused and who feel a great deal of shame and whose "wires" were crossed as a result.

Of course all of this is pretty simplistic,people react to sexual abuse differently but for some, this is what they do, and this is where I think these people who come from who think they are "homosexuals" and who "change."

They don't change their orientation, their orientation was always heterosexual, they just deal with the fall out of the abuse.

Anyway, that is what I think is going on.

Dena

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by therealview (anonymous) on February 13, 2007 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sodomy is wrong...a poop chute is not designed for anything else....but poop."

And smuggling drugs. Don't forget smuggling drugs.

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

I would have to say your view is somewhat surreal.

Obamillary: "I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body. I should get recognition, I expect to receive special constitutional rights. Why won't you people accept me?"

Errr. . . what special constitutional rights are you referring to? The ones that everyone else gets?

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

Obamillary Did you see the "I'm a Lesbian trapped in a mans body" at Promise Keepers get together or something. Its very witty I'm sure you didn't come up with it yourself.

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

Posted by Dambudzo (anonymous) on February 13, 2007 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Chrisianity neither is, nor ever was a part of common law"

Thomas Jefferson

Is this the same Jefferson that had slaves?

Yeah, You know the guy on the $20.00 bill in your back pocket

Staci Dark Simpson 8 years, 3 months ago

The bible was not written by just a bunch of random men, but men who were alive at the time of Jesus, his apostles. All scripture is from God.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is God-breathed

Lets face it homosexuals (as well as thieves, slanderers, swindlers, the greedy) are all sinners. See 1 Cor 6:9-10. I agree we should not judge as scripture also tells us that is not our job, we are to love everyone as God loves us, we are just saying its not ok to be gay. In my case I don't hate you for being gay, I just think its a sin the same as my occasional gluttony is a sin. A sin is a sin. I believe God can change anyone, after all he created the world in about a week. Call me naive but its what the bible says.

Staci Dark Simpson 8 years, 3 months ago

Thanks KSMod! I am actually doing a poll to see how many people will tell me that today. I agree with your post on the other board about cancelling school and then still having athletic events. Seems a little crazy!

ksmoderate 8 years, 3 months ago

Happy to help. So, how many people have told you that today?

Stephen 8 years, 3 months ago

Obamillary, Sorry I don't have time to play, I have go home and fill your mommas bowl, since your doing stunts for Little Richard

Staci Dark Simpson 8 years, 3 months ago

Scene - thats right you don't have to believe it. Believe me I didn't for most of my life. It just seemed like people posting above were calling Christians a bunch of bigots and haters and thats not what its about. Most Christians are loving and accepting. I'll tell you the gospel once, I am not a used car salesman, I can't talk you into it, you will either believe me and what Gods word says or you won't.

Kodiac 8 years, 3 months ago

"Also, there is undeniable evidence to support the truth that gays can change their sexual behavior. " -- Carl B.

There is also undeniable evidence to support the truth that christians can change their irrational beliefs. Carl, it saddens me to see you pushing a doctrine that is not based on facts but by your beliefs. Someone earlier on here said that Carl is merely expressing an opinion which is hard to believe when you read statements like the one I quoted above.

Carl is showing us what it truly means to be a christian in today's world. This is not about love for fellow humans or being "Christlike" but about irrational meaningless concepts such as "sin" and "God's Law". It is amazing to me that a group of people who claim to be followers of Christ and "experts" on the Bible can't see that Jesus would condemn them just as surely as He condemned the Pharisees. This obsession with what chistians perceive to be "sin" will continue to blind, mislead them from their own true nature.

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by spacystaci8 (anonymous) on February 13, 2007 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Scene - thats right you don't have to believe it. Believe me I didn't for most of my life. It just seemed like people posting above were calling Christians a bunch of bigots and haters and thats not what its about."

Unfortunately, that is what it sometimes is about. Not that Christianity itself has much to do with that. Hateful, prejudiced and inflexible people will, when becoming or being Christian, be hateful, prejudiced and inflexible Christians.

. .. . although, now that I think about it, that might show that religion itself is incapable of changing anybody, without the internal desire to change being there first

At any rate, the same could be said of agnostics, atheists, jews, muslims, whites, blacks, etc.

Tychoman 8 years, 3 months ago

Therealview, you and obamillary can just stop posting. Really. The only opinion you two have on this issue is "Ew." Well I have news for you, the sexual discrimination ban isn't about SEX, it's about legal rights. It'd be great if you could talk about something other than sex. Or do you kids just have so much of that on your minds that you can't think of anything else (or important) to say?

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Oh, do be quiet. They have just as much right to post as anyone else. Just don't read the things, or quit complaining.

bunnyhawk 8 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Staci Dark Simpson 8 years, 3 months ago

Fred Phelps gives all Christians a bad name.

Agno-but they were written by people who were there when Jesus walked.

have you guys read the prophecies? These are what made me believe, they are very interesting!

classclown 8 years, 3 months ago

I see not much work got done anywhere today.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 3 months ago

jonas,

Theview and Ovarillary have a right to post, and we have a right to demonstrate what fools and idiots they are.

When I call someone an idiot, I do so because of what they express as their beliefs.

I do not call them an idiot because they are christian, etc.

The latter is bigotry; the former is reasoned judgement.

classclown 8 years, 3 months ago

Posted by Stephen (anonymous) on February 13, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by Dambudzo (anonymous) on February 13, 2007 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Chrisianity neither is, nor ever was a part of common law"

Thomas Jefferson

Is this the same Jefferson that had slaves?

Yeah, You know the guy on the $20.00 bill in your back pocket

=======================================

Jefferson is not on the $20.00 bill. He is on the $2.00 bill. Jackson is on the $20.00.

Jamesaust 8 years, 3 months ago

Yawn. Just back from "Sin City" - Las Vegas and what do I find? This author (back again) trying to get God to condemn His own creation, and therefore, condemn Himself. Personally, I always thought the Serpent would pick a cooler name than 'Carl.'

There's a special little place in h--l for blasphemers. The author might seek admonishment from Leviticus, chapter 24, which spells out the wages of this sin.

Just confess your sin Carl and ask Jesus for forgiveness - its not his hope that you be perish. You CAN change.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 3 months ago

Cry me a river. Yo, when your people's bare backs have been whipped bloody, generations have been bartered like cattle, families torn apart, crosses burned on your lawn, family members hung by lynch mobs dressed in white robs and denied ANY constitutional rights (let alone being acknowledge as human), then we can talk about gay rights being some civil rights movement. To compare the gay rights movement to the black civil rights movement demonstrates a complete lack of historical understanding and diminishes from the courage demostrated by those who truly struggled under the crushing hammer of oppression. There is simply no comparison beyond a wishful imagination. Gay rights is a social movement, based on a chosen lifestyle. Public policy, and religion are absolutely relevant in a discussion of whether such a lifestyle benefits society as a whole. I know, I'm a bigot for saying that. The word "bigot" is thrown around on here about as loose and easy as the lifestyles of those throwing it. Oh yes, I'm probably a nazi as well. Good grief.

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

nightmare: I don't care if you call them idiots, though I don't see why you bother. Telling them to stop posting is a different story. That's just attempted censorship to me.

Of course, that wasn't you, so it's safe to assume that my comment doesn't apply to you. At least not in this commentariat.

Commentariat is my new word, to denote a series of comments.

If anyone knows the real word, let me know.

It better not be blog, or i will refuse to use it.

Tychoman 8 years, 3 months ago

How about "post," Jonas?

Rationalanimal, it's not a chosen lifestyle. Evidence, other than your own biased hearsay, please. And leave religion out of it, for God's sake.

Tom McCune 8 years, 3 months ago

If you want to go to the Old Testament view of things, check out Judges 19, definitely one of the stranger stories in the Bible.

A traveler and his concubine take shelter for the night in the house of an old man. Suddenly the house is surrounded by a mob of "wicked men of the town" who beat on the doors and yell "send out that man you have visiting in there so we can gang rape him!"

The old man says "No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, my guest, don't do such a disgraceful thing."

They wind up throwing out the concubine who gets gang raped and dies on the doorstep with no help from anyone. The traveler eventually winds up retrieving her body which he cuts into pieces and sends around to the various tribes of Israel. This sparks a massive war in which tens of thousands die and most of the tribe of Benjamin is wiped out. However, it is decided after the war that the surviving men of Benjamin need wives, so they are allowed to forcibly kidnap the virgins of Shiloh.

Apparent morals of the story:
1. murdering a concubine is bad 2. having a concubine (polygamy) is OK 3. offering your virgin daughter to a mob is OK 4. war is OK 5. kidnapping virgins is OK

Personally, although I am no fundamentalist, I prefer Jesus's twin commandments (from Mark):

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

LiberalDude 8 years, 3 months ago

God's law is bunk.....quit waisting our time with these idiotic letters to the editor.

gr 8 years, 3 months ago

"And you have definitive, concrete, irrefutable proof that homosexuality is 100% "choice"... that there are no biological and/or genetic factors whatsoever?"

Do you have any definitive, concrete, irrefutable proof that ANY behavior has no biological and/or genetic factors whatsoever?

Jackalope 8 years, 3 months ago

Acts 2.1 caused me to buy a Honda.

". . .they were all with one accord. . ."

BOE 8 years, 3 months ago

Posted by Rationalanimal :

" Cry me a river. Yo, when your people's bare backs have been whipped bloody, generations have been bartered like cattle, families torn apart, crosses burned on your lawn, family members hung by lynch mobs dressed in white robs and denied ANY constitutional rights (let alone being acknowledge as human), then we can talk about gay rights being some civil rights movement. "

-

So it would need to reach that level, just to be able to talk about it?

Those who don't suffer from "a complete lack of historical understanding", would say that mindset cedes a lot of momentum to Totalitarians, Fascists, and Nazis.

Maybe Gypsies should have been ashamed of themselves for complaining about their internment, loss of rights, and citizenship because afterall, it was still a notch or two better than the Jews.

=== - ===

" Public policy, and religion are absolutely relevant in a discussion of whether such a lifestyle benefits society as a whole. "

-

And history repeatedly screams out that in regards to oppression, once you've embraced that paradigm as a rationale for denying people equal rights, the sky is the limit .

It was a great tool to deny women full rights as citizens for generations, was used as a casus belli to exterminate Native Americans and crush their culture and religion, and in large part allowed the whole litany of abuses you listed ....

- * "...people's bare backs have been whipped bloody, generations have been bartered like cattle, families torn apart, crosses burned on your lawn, family members hung by lynch mobs dressed in white robs and denied ANY constitutional rights (let alone being acknowledge as human). " * -

... to continue as a mainstay, as being an absolute necessity for the good of society.

Jamesaust 8 years, 3 months ago

"when your people's bare backs have been whipped bloody, generations have been bartered like cattle, families torn apart, crosses burned on your lawn, family members hung by lynch mobs dressed in white robs and denied ANY constitutional rights (let alone being acknowledge as human), then we can talk about gay rights being some civil rights movement."

Apparently, this individual has an appalling but all too common ignorance of the history of homosexuals. This is hardly a surprise given a key characteristic in repressing gays has often been obscurring their existence in the shadows. While the two groups discriminatory histories do differ, I'm uncertain which would have the greater claim.

"Acknowledged as human"? How about not acknowledged as existing in any form? Whipped bloody? Check. Families torn apart? Check. Lynched? Check. (Wanna see pictures? I can supply the internet link.) I also note that the government-sanctioned discrimination of gays continues even up to this, Febr. 14, 2007.

Perhaps some entrepreneurial type could list the constitutional rights guaranteed to gays? I'm betting on a very short, and most recent, list. (Apparently being gay is no longer a criminal offense. Other than that?)

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Except for threads on Iraq in which it would be The Mother of All Posts.

Kodiac 8 years, 3 months ago

Jamesaust,

As always, an excellent post. Rationalanimal would do well to follow your example and actually live up to the first half of his namesake. There is nothing rational about letting your beliefs blind you to the facts.

ksmoderate 8 years, 3 months ago

Begging your collective pardon, but I've just seen this too many times and from too many people. The word hypocrite has an "e" at the end!

Crispian Paul 8 years, 3 months ago

All I have to say is that God's law has no place in a government founded on the principals of separation of church and state....Apparently religious conservatives forget that?

The websites quoted in this letter are clearly quite biased. Show me some data from a "third pary" that says people truly can "degayify". Homosexuality has been documented in the animal kingdom. Hell, I have a friend with a male dog that will ONLY hump other male dogs and could care less about female dogs....

Crispian Paul 8 years, 3 months ago

Tweakin Topekan, try to be a uniter, not a divider....seriously, I understand where you were starting at and why, but the end of your posts runs dangerously into "sounding like a racist" territory. Further being divisive between different undervalued persons in this society basically allows people with general ideas in common to be divided and conquered.

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Wow, thanks for showing us the intelligent, non-ignorant side of the issue. And with such a humble demeanor, too.

staff04 8 years, 3 months ago

A little something like the LJW's "On the Street" from the Onion:

I laughed hysterically when I read Victoria's response!

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/haggard_scared_straight

staplegunn 8 years, 3 months ago

Vaguely interesting discussion. My 2 cents: If the Christian faiths, as currently practiced--particularly the evangelical flavors, qualify Gay as a normal and an acceptable human state (for lack of a better word), the very foundations of their faith as embodied in famliy is refuted. That of the authoritarian father and subjective, nuturing, baby-mill mother. It's sad and tragic really, but hate clothed as compassion never goes out of style.

O.K., 5 cents: Along the author vein...way is Jesus depicted as a caucasian? Geographically and chronologically he was a Middle-easterner, therefore dark and swarthy (absolutely no derogatory connotations intended here). Yet, in the west Jesus is oddly quite caucasian. Maybe it is marketing...and maybe ignorant westerners copied faded representations (FYi: all those white marble Grecian statues were brightly painted, time and lack of care takers left them to be "discovered" as white marble), or possibly God spoke to the faithful artist suggesting Jesus be protrayed as causasian. Or just maybe the affluent western mercantile class wanted to look more like Jesus, and Jesus to look more like them and the portrait painters acquiesced (that means "capitulated" for the faithful reading)--note the invisible "hand of the market" here. So, the painter as author was told by whom to represent Jesus as caucasian? But of course no such "interpretations" ever took place with the Bible with it's multiple editors or versions, being "God's word" and all.

gr 8 years, 3 months ago

Maybe staplegun had it - painters.

meadowbreeze 8 years, 3 months ago

Another case of a Christian claiming to have a personal cell phone with God's number on it. Last I checked, this was not the Christian Republic of Kansas although folks like Senator Brownback sure seem to approve of the idea.

Tychoman 8 years, 3 months ago

There's nothing wrong with being homosexual, Dambudzo. I wouldn't use the word "culprit."

Topekan, with all the harassment you're throwing at Agnostick (who has no previous history on these boards of what you're accusing him of), I can't tell what side of this issue you're on anymore. Nor do I care.

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Tychoman: You're not suggesting that Topekan has any integrity as a poster, are you?

Tychoman 8 years, 3 months ago

I wouldn't dare trespass towards a subject I'm not familiar with, Jonas :)

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