Regulating bars
- LawrenceKS.org: Letter from city leaders to Alcoholic Beverage Control division
- LawrenceKS.org: Staff memo with details of a proposed entertainment venue licensing system
- Should beer tax help pay for police? (07-21-07)
- Raising the bar on downtown safety: City, business owners discuss dangers (07-11-07)
- Turnover higher than usual for downtown vacancies (04-21-07)
- Downtown safety again in spotlight after melee (03-28-07)
Two options up for discussion at meeting
Commissioners will have two options on their agenda tonight to add new regulations for Lawrence bars and clubs. Both options previously have been discussed.
One option is to require bars and clubs to receive a special-use permit in order to operate. This is the same type of permit that the city requires for other intensive uses, such as homeless shelters.
The second option is an "entertainment venue license." It would apply not only to bars and clubs but also places such as movie theaters and private venues that host live concerts. Under the new system, the city could revoke a business' entertainment license if the business is creating a public safety hazard.
In response to past concerns, city staff members have added more details about when a license could be revoked. For example, in addition to violence that occurs inside a bar, the city also can look at violence caused by bar patrons within 500 feet of the bar. The ordinance also spells out what type of crimes and how many crimes need to be associated with a business before it can have its license revoked.
For example, if someone is murdered outside a club, that one incident would be enough to revoke the club's license. But it would take 10 weapons violations in a 365-day period to revoke a license.
The state regulator who oversees the bar and liquor industry said Monday that he's willing to work with Lawrence leaders to deal with problem bars if city officials are willing to initiate the process.
But city commissioners at tonight's meeting are looking into creating their own licensing system that would make Lawrence less reliant on the state to deal with problems related to violence surrounding drinking establishments.
"I am convinced something needs to be done," said City Commissioner Rob Chestnut. "I think getting a handle on downtown safety is one of the top two or three issues that we have to deal with."
For months, city staff members have said that means the city needs to create its own regulations for bars, drinking establishments and other entertainment venues. City Manager David Corliss has told commissioners that previous efforts to get the state's Alcoholic Beverage Control division to address problems at several bars has been unsuccessful because ABC leaders said they would not take into account actions by bar patrons that happened immediately outside of the bar, such as in a city parking lot.
But Tom Groneman, director of the ABC, said Monday that may be a misinterpretation on the city's part.
"I've never said that we're not interested in what is going on outside of the four walls," Groneman said. "If asked, we would work with the city to alleviate whatever problems they may be having."
The debate comes after several high-profile incidents of violence at or near downtown bars in 2006. One man was shot and killed, and another was seriously wounded outside the Granada. Seven shots were fired inside the downtown club Last Call in May 2006, and police leaders reported 21 weapons violations in downtown from June 2005 to June 2007.
Corliss, though, said he has asked Groneman for help in the past. He produced a letter dated Jan. 25 that was sent to Groneman asking about standards the division uses to revoke a club's liquor license. A Feb. 2 letter from an ABC attorney responding to Corliss indicated that the department would not consider violations by patrons outside a bar or club.
But Groneman said there are other ways the city could ask ABC to become involved. For example, after seven shots were fired inside Last Call in May 2006, the club's liquor license was up for its annual renewal in October 2006. At that time, the city could have asked ABC to conduct a hearing on the license renewal. At that hearing the city could have presented evidence as to why the club should not be granted a license. Groneman said the presence of weapons at the bar was the type of issue that he could consider when deciding whether to renew a liquor license.
Groneman said the city could ask for such a hearing for any drinking establishment in the city, but has not done so. He said other cities have asked for such hearings to help resolve issues.
"The hearings aren't used a lot, but the two or three times that I've heard such hearings they generally have caused the city and the license holder to talk about what issues they have, and the issues have been resolved."
When asked why the city didn't request a hearing on Last Call - which at the time had been in the news for several weapons violations near the club - Corliss said he did not know.
He also said he was not sure whether the city would seek to have a hearing for Last Call or any other club in the future.
"When I read their letter, it looks like it is just going to be a paper chase, and this community deserves more than that," Corliss said.
Phil Bradley, executive director of the Kansas Licensed Beverage Association, said several of his members were disappointed that the city has not done more to work with existing state regulations before attempting to create a new set of local regulations.
Bradley said his members were concerned that a new local licensing system would place too much power to close a business in the hands of local politicians. Bradley said his members also aren't convinced that violence problems around bars are severe enough to warrant new regulations. Bradley said police officers seem to have increased their presence around bars, and the city adopted new regulations that increase the penalty for carrying a weapon near a bar.
"These new regulations would single out a particular type of business without any solid evidence that those businesses are the major contributors to the problem, or even that the problem still exists," Bradley said.
But Douglas County District Attorney Charles Branson - who also is a downtown resident - said he hadn't seen any significant signs of improvement in 2007. He also said he would welcome new regulations to deal with bars and clubs because some state laws are "pretty narrowly defined."
"I think downtown safety is something that has to be addressed," Branson said. "I think we probably have to find some creative ways to address it."
Comments
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oldgoof (anonymous) says…
This IS NOT rocket science, city commissioners. Why don't we talk about it for another year or two.
KS (anonymous) says…
Like everything else in life, if you (the bars) can't police yourselves, someone else (the City and/or State) will. Take note, bars! Times may be a changing and you might not like the results.
herman (anonymous) says…
Times are definitely changing! Pretty soon you can't come downtown anymore for a drink, but only to get panhandled, yelled at, spit at and robbed.
riverrat2 (anonymous) says…
When asked why the city didn't request a hearing on Last Call - which at the time had been in the news for several weapons violations near the club - Corliss said he did not know.
The manager does not know? Who's in charge then?
When the Lofts were built you could read the writing on the wall. They will do away with those bars in that vicinity. $$$ talks.
jrlii (anonymous) says…
Why utilize state regulations, when we can create our very own!
Lawrence seems to be turning into some sort of a detached enclave of the Peoples Republic of California!
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
I'm so glad we need the state to hold our hand on this, when regulations are already in place that could have been used to deal with this! [that's sarcasm] The city commission won't be happy until downtown is destroyed completely.
ilovelucy (anonymous) says…
Me thinks a certain City Manager believes that he is above the law. That letter he wrote to Groneman was dated January? It's typical that this letter is just now showing up when they plan to vote on this issue tonight!
Good reporting, Chad! If you wouldn't have asked questions, we may have never known a letter existed,
Confrontation (anonymous) says…
"I think getting a handle on downtown safety is one of the top two or three issues that we have to deal with."
What are you going to do about the real threat to safety? The homeless population is far more dangerous than some drunks at a club.
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
The ABC guy looks like a stupid public administrator doing a back peddle. Why do you think the City Manager wrote a letter inquiring how to deal with problem bars? - Because there is a problem stupid. Don't come back and say well there are other things we can jointly do to fix the issue. Why didn't the ABC speak up at the time of the letter?
Looking at the ABC's justification it appears there is no need for them to exist in the first place. "We don't handle what happens after someone has been to one of our regulated establishments." Why do they think they exist? Why is this product regulated at all? Is Tad's Shaved Ice a public nuisance - Probably not and probably why there is not a Shaved Ice Control agency in Topeka.
The ABC guy ends the comment in the best fashion. - We don't want Cities regulating what happens with alcohol dispensing - i.e. "That would put us out of jobs"
The tax paying public seems to be under served by the ABC.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
"scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
What a bunch of BS. Who are the "nanny staters" now? Why should this apply across the board when we all know damn well that's there is only one "problem child"?"
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Exactly Scene! There is only one thing that needs to be done, revoke Last Call's liquor license and close the place down for being a public disturbance. Everyone knows that entire block is going to be demolished in the near future for Hobbs/Taylor Loft II, get it over with and close Last Call before they cause needless restrictions to be placed on every establishment in town.
herman (anonymous) says…
Confrontation (Anonymous) says:
"What are you going to do about the real threat to safety? The homeless population is far more dangerous than some drunks at a club."
Bingo, and I have said it many many many times before.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
LogicSound --
This has nothing to do with the influence of developers. All citizens should have a legitimate interest in promoting a favorable view of this city. When the police routinely seize AK-47s and other dangerous weapons outside of one drinking establishment, that establishment should have its ability to do business revoked. It is a blight on this community and should not be allowed to continue to operate.
I do agree that these new regulations are a terrible idea. Why punish many responsible bar owners with new burdensome regulations when all you have to do is revoke the license of one extremely bad actor???
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
Mkh (Anonymous) says:
"scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
What a bunch of BS. Who are the "nanny staters" now? Why should this apply across the board when we all know damn well that's there is only one "problem child"?"
Exactly Scene! There is only one thing that needs to be done, revoke Last Call's liquor license and close the place down for being a public disturbance.
*******
Not so fast boys. There's more.
Granada - one man killed another wounded.
Thai House - one man run over, general fight, illegal firearm confiscated.
Last Call - shots fired many firearms confiscated in the Borders Bookstore parking lot.
Before there's too much general backslapping, seems there's not just one place where this happens. I'd address the common denominator at these places - Rap music and the culture of violence, gangs, disrespect and the ilk that seem drawn to this genre.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
herman (Anonymous) says:
Confrontation (Anonymous) says:
"What are you going to do about the real threat to safety? The homeless population is far more dangerous than some drunks at a club."
Bingo, and I have said it many many many times before.
*******
Difference being, Confrontation, that our local homeless don't seem to be armed.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
"Not so fast boys. There's more.
Granada - one man killed another wounded.
Thai House - one man run over, general fight, illegal firearm confiscated."
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These are isolated incidents and in no way characterize the routine activities of these establishments. Things like these incidents are exactly why these lisencing regulations should Not be enacted. The Granada is a wonderful entertainment venue that brings thousands of revenue dollars from out of town to local business every month. 99% of the time there are abolsutely no problems or issues associated with the establishment.
The incident you cite actually happened on the other side of the street in from of Alladin's Resturant and Supersonic Music, do they share responsibility? The night of the incident the Granada was rented out for a private party by a KU Fraternity. Does KU or the Fraternity share responsibility for the death? Of course not, and neither should the Granada.
Last Call is a completely different beast. It is Always a problem for area business, citizens, and the police. Comparing Last Call to the Granada or even Thai House is ridiculous.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
The night of the shooting at the Granada, the Granada was having a rap concert and were responsible for bringing in their patrons, not restaurants acrosss the street forchristsake. The Thai house has boosted it's business after hours by having rap djs come in and staying open until late. Last Call's problems are associated with it's clientele who come for what....the rap music.
I wasn't comparing the establishments. The common denominator is rap in all these places.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
scenebooster (Anonymous) says:A stupid argument, disproven time and time again.
*********
Ranting again I see. Tell me what other music artists and/or celebrities as a group are continually being arrested for violence and/or being killed themselves? Rap "artists". They promote it in their music, their lifestyle, the MAKE their money because of it and their "hood" background. Get your head out of the sand and realize the truth, dope.
tony88 (anonymous) says…
"It is a blight on this community and should not be allowed to continue to operate."
Wal-mart or last call?
Mkh (anonymous) says…
"kneejerkreaction (Anonymous) says:
The night of the shooting at the Granada, the Granada was having a rap concert and were responsible for bringing in their patrons, not restaurants acrosss the street forchristsake. The Thai house has boosted it's business after hours by having rap djs come in and staying open until late. Last Call's problems are associated with it's clientele who come for what:.the rap music."
---------------------------------
If that is your point Knee than you should be blaming the Frat that held the private party in the Granada. The Frat, rented out the place and they chose the musicians to perform at Their show. The Granada had No control over the performers. There were no weapons or violence inside the establishment. In fact, the Granada almost never has rap shows, and when they do it's almost always a private party with the Frats choosing the performers.
The Granada did nothing wrong and is one of the few establishments in this town that makes money for others downtown. You are barking up the wrong tree and proving why the regulations should not be enacted.
By the way I stated that the establishments where the man was killed in front of should not be held responsible. Read slower, or have someone read it to you.
Kontum1972 (anonymous) says…
there was a headline in the MSN today on a movement to lower the drinking age on a national level to 18 (if they can go to war they should be allowed to drink)...LoL....well let's see with the draft supposedly going back online this spring because there isnt anyone else to send to the sand kingdom and the administration has deemed that we have to be in iraq for the next 10 years to stablize the problem....gee whiz folks.....look at the bright side...mb we will get rid of the gun toters and they can go overseas and do all the shooting they want i am sure they can find some great targets of opportunity...LoL
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
You can't hold a logical argument with people who simply deny facts. Rap music breeds violence, disrespect for women and a general degradation of anything considered decent by most decent people. You may admire that type of message scenebooster, but most people don't.
I can almost feel you getting all aquiver sceneb., with your obvious attempts to be a liberal pseudo-intellect, but you're as full as a Christmas goose. And, the race card dude....get away, that's old old old and tiresome....you pulled that one, not me.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
Tony88 = Complete Idiot
How many AK-47s have you seen in the parking lot of your local Wal-Mart lately? Get a new screen name; you are a disgrace to Tony Gonzales.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
logicsound04 (Anonymous) says:
Athletes and teenage starlets.
*******
C'mon. Brittney Spears? Paris Hilton? How many people have they shot, I've lost track.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
I would agree with LogicSound to a certain extent, but it does seem like we have a major problem especially at Last Call on certain nights which brings in a rough crowd from Kansas City and Topeka. I'm not going to speculate on the type of music being played during these nights, but it seems like it is mostly hip-hop music.
That whole hip-hop culture is just a giant load of crap and weakness. When I was growing up, if you got into an argument with someone you settled it with your fists instead of pulling a gun or knife. The loser might end up with some bruises and a bloody nose, but they wouldn't be dead or disfigured from a gunshot or knife wound. We also didn't have to rely on dogs to do the fighting for us either. Its a pretty macho way to act tough to let two dogs fight each other to show someone else how tough you are! This culture is ruining a whole generation in this country.
tony88 (anonymous) says…
kshiker thinks blight only refers to guns & violence?
kshiker (anonymous) says…
I don't care how the culture from the inside. You need to realize how this culture is portrayed in the media and by prominent members of the community. The overwhelming majority of the music which is popular right now portrays all sorts of senseless acts of violence and brutality towards women, animals and other human beings. When you couple this with what is seen locally in bars like Last Call, then maybe the hip-hop community has a problem that it needs to own up to rather than blaming it on other issues.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
Scenebooster --
Don't compare Last Call to terrorism. Are you kidding??? Well, maybe there are parallels in the cultures that breed this type of behavior.
Tony88 --
Another irrelevant and insightful comment. Basically what I have come from the resident village idiot!
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
Because nervous white people like yourself call it "devil music".
*****
Sceneb. and you're calling ME racist? Last I checked there were no pictures of people who post on this site. Spoken like a true peckerwood.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
Comparing criticisms on hip-hop music to an ongoing conflict in a foreign country is both stupid and irresponsible. Yes. 175 people were killed in a suicide bombing in Iraq on a certain day . . . due to the actions of a barbaric terrorist group. This does not have any bearing on criticisms directed at an irresponsible culture that refuses to take responsibility for the consequences of the culture it portrays.
All evidence (or absolutely none) to the contrary, hip-hop is played at Last Call on certain nights and I would be very willing to wager it has been played there on every single night in which an illegal weapon was seized in the parking lot of Borders across the street.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
Careful kshiker, scenebooster will simply call you a racist. I agree with your post and that's my point as well. People deny the obvious root of the problem. It's not the establishments so much as their choice of music, which doesn't draw the Lawrence Welk crowd.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
Yes. I meant to compare your reaction to the "nervous white people", not necessairly imply that you are white (but I would bet that you are).
*******
....and I would be willing to bet you're an idiot. Choose your own color.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
violent rap music + violent people = violence ...... and somewhere along the way they'll spend a lot of money in your establishment.
"Owner, Last Call, The Secret to my Success"
kshiker (anonymous) says…
Scenebooster --
I would bet that you wear shoes, but that has absoutely no bearing on or relevance to this conversation either. This music is perpetuating a corrupt culture of violence that is destroying certain portions of this country from the inside-out. Go ahead and defend it as long as you want, but at some point the people who defend it will need to take some responsibility for what they have helped create.
kshiker (anonymous) says…
I've gotta go. Bottom line = Close Last Call. It is a cesspool that could be replaced by something much better and less destructive like a Hooters! That is surely something the community can rally around. Delicious food, cold beer and young attractive women in less than sufficient clothing.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
I remember when the guy was killed by a member of Hell's Angels at the Rolling Stones concert. That was a big deal. There have been so many rap artists killed or arrested that it doesn't even make news anymore. Snoop Dog (pulllleaaazzzeee) the original POS rapper can't even go to England because of his penchant for violence. Banned from a country. What a guy.
kneejerkreaction (anonymous) says…
scenebooster (Anonymous) says:
Jerk and hiker -
If you stand by your argument, then you would have to also believe that violence on TV and in movies is a direct causal link to violence in the real world,
*******
100% agree, and you can lump PS2 games into the mix as well.
merrill (anonymous) says…
More police presence = more tax dollars. Closing Last Call or other problem bars saves tax dollars. If we the police have extra dollars put motorcycle cops in the neighborhoods to nab speeders. All bars should not suffer because of actions at Last Call,Granada and Brothers. Bottom line....Close Last Call to set a precedent and quiet down New Hampshire Street. Bar owner has too many friends in city hall.
Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…
The problem is not limited to the "rap crowd", but they have far more incidents associated with them than any other music genre. Failing to acknowledge this is ... well, stupid. If you ignore the public opinion of something, you are allowing that perception to continue; if you fight the public perception with nothing more than the racism rant, then you are just helping that perception along.
To change public perception of someone or some group, you need to accept that at least some of the views have a basis in known events - the public's perception has to have some foundation in reality. The perception could be worse than the actual event(s), but there is a base for the the perception the public has. Trying to deny that there is any wrong when the wrong is in public record is a display of foolishness and will loose more respect from the public.
Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…
That was directed at scenebooster by the way.
tony88 (anonymous) says…
"kshiker . you seem obsessed with Hooters."
kshiker also seems obsessed with calling people idiots and being a racist
Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…
Interesting . . . scenebooster failed to mention the Granada shooting happened when the event at The Granada was a rap music event - even if it was a private party.
There needs to be a reinstatement of the death penalty nationwide for violent crimes and for sex crimes involving children(maybe all sex crimes). Most criminals these days get a slap on the wrist for killing someone. Many manslaughter offenders can be back on the street in less than five years with good behavior(some get out sooner than that!). Violent crime NEEDS to be answered in the same manner - with violence. I personally would like to have a nationwide public channel that televises the execution of criminals. The current punishment of criminals is far too removed from the public knowledge, as well as far too lenient for violent crimes.
Criminals have no real reason NOT to commit a crime these days - get convicted, go to prison, hook up with some friends, learn new ways to commit crime, then get paroled and go on to bigger (and better?) crimes.