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April 23, 2007

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To the editor:

I realize the Journal-World is impotent to resist AP style guidelines in the interests of unbiased journalism, but must nonetheless protest Thursday's reportage on the abortion ban. Imagine this rewrite of the front page lead:

"A majority of distinguished Supreme Court justices gave unborn children a landmark victory in a 5-4 decision that upholds the long-held bipartisan, multicultural aversion to partial-birth abortions voiced by a majority of this country's citizens and legislators. It was a long awaited and resounding win that supporters of child citizenship and basic decency had hoped to gain from a country pushed to the use of the courts by a media campaign to hide the horrors of this 'procedure' from public view."

And while we're imagining, let's get in a sentence or two about the myth that any woman's life ever depends upon stabbing to death of a baby already emerging from her womb. Get real!

On a calmer note, ironically, on page 7 of the same paper, we mourn hero Liviu Librescu's death: "...to save one life is to save the world." Amen.

Charlotte Ostermann, McLouth

Comments

guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

Wow James, you are a high-minded sort aren't you? Presuming all sorts of blah, blah, blah then with the yada, yada, yada. b/c I don't approve of your assent for killing unborn kids and since you appear to have no defense you throw up a cacophony of BS. You presume b/c I don't want you to murder unborn children that I must not care about children already born.

While you are truly mad, your reply was a bit eloquent. Idiotic but eloquent. I've never heard the, "if you care for the unborn, you hate the living. Now I get it, this is why they call it the looney left. Thanks James.

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

guam - you may want to avoid your irresponsibility to the children of this world - your "terrorism with a human face" if you will, or is it "compassionate conservatism"? - but merely because you refuse to discuss your shortcomings doesn't mean that the rest of us will play along with your immorality. God will judge you less on your abortion politics than whether you cared for the little children, less on the 'what-ifs' of existence and more on the hard realities of the needy children that - yet again for another day - you shrug off. Are you seriously going to provide a justification for ignoring the hungry cries of the children by claiming you were too busy with your anti-abortion rallies? (So far the scales of judgment are looking bad for you but there's hope yet.)

"So are you in favor of killing unborn children or protecting them?"

Ah...cartoon thinking. That's refreshing. We don't get enough of that.

Well, I am in favor of: 1. separating children from hoped-for-children 2. separating my personal, unverifiable, religious-based beliefs from documented facts 3. humility in the face of God's mysteries, including the beginning of life

You can pretend to speak for God all you want. But to speak in God's place, pretending that your voice is God's, is blasphemy. Fulfill the clearly mandated responsibilities that lie directly in front of you before dreaming up new duties that, through God's own wisdom, are not clearly given to you.

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guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

Deec,

People have always committed murder. Should we legalize murder since it happens anyway or do you think there are fewer murders than otherwise would be so since it is against the law?

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guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

Condescention will get you no where. It's nothing but an avoidance technique and quite telling in this instance.

So are you in favor of killing unborn children or protecting them? Once we've established that elementary issue we can discuss adoption problems.

If you're in favor of death then clearly there's no point in discussing life.

The idea that it's better for the life of the child to kill it in the womb b/c it may not get adopted upon leaving the womb is pyschotic.

I'm quite sure that in 100% of the cases if given an opportunity for input, unborn children would prefer to take their chances in foster care as opposed to having their brains scrambled.

I'm still hoping you just haven't thought this through completely. As before, I'd hate to think that what I think you're writing is true.

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OZ 6 years, 12 months ago

Posted by Pilgrim (anonymous) on April 23, 2007 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by merrill (anonymous) on April 23, 2007 at 7:27 a.m.

Meanwhile the pro-lifers support Bush wars where innocent lives of all ages are taken daily.


The US military are not the ones detonating bombs in marketplaces, Richard, and you know it.

I guess you would rather have them executed in a dark alley by Sodom Insane's goon squads, eh? ++++

Reference yourself to SHOCK and AWE as ordered by the IDIOT DUBYA, The RADICAL, HYPOCRITICAL, X-TIAN EXTREMIST!

Here's a little refresher for you, "PilGRIM"

the AWOL, ALCOHOLIC, COCAINE ADDICTED, HYPOCRITICAL X-TIAN, DRY DRUNK, FUNCTIONING ILLITERATE, PEDOPHILE LOVING, BAGHDAD BUSH aka the IDIOT DUBYA continues to MURDER & TORTURE & SPEND TAX MONEYU.S. MILITARY

DEATHS IN IRAQ: 3,334 and risingU.S. MILITARY

WOUNDED & MAIMED IN IRAQ: 79,900 and risingIRAQI

CIVILIAN DEAD men, DEAD women and DEAD CHILDREN (MINIMUM): 689,500 and rising (the IDIOT liar DUBYA flippantly "admits" 30,000 12-12-05)

1,577 (plus) DEAD from KATRINA and the AWOL, ALCOHOLIC, COCAINE ADDICTED, DRY DRUNK, FUNCTIONING ILLITERATE, PEDOPHILE LOVING, IDIOT DUBYA'S incompetence and willful neglect all while on FIVE WEEK VACATION; the IDIOT DUBYA KILLS AT HOME, TOO!

The AWOL, ALCOHOLIC, COCAINE ADDICTED, DRY DRUNK, FUNCTIONING ILLITERATE, BAGHDAD BUSH aka IDIOT DUBYA'S administration has drafted amendments to the War Crimes Act that RETROACTIVELY protects policy-makers from possible criminal charges for authorizing humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees, according to lawyers who have seen the proposal. The White House, without elaboration, said in a statement that the bill "will apply to any conduct by any U.S. personnel, whether committed before or after the law is enacted"This amendment is NOT the action of innocent people. Innocent until TORTURED GUILTY.

Of course, the incompetent, seditious and treasonous Condi Rice, DISMISSING Tenet's warnings on July 10, 2001, that OSSAMA BIN LADEN will ATTACK the UNITED STATES & the AWOL, ALCOHOLIC, COCAINE ADDICTED, DRY DRUNK, FUNCTIONING ILLITERATE, BAGHDAD BUSH aka the IDIOT DUBYA IGNORING the Presidential Daily Briefing, Dated, August 06, 2001, that OSSAMA BIN LADEN will ATTACK the UNITED STATES, is responsible for ALL the DEATHS of 9-11.

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the SUPREME INTERNATIONAL CRIME differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." -- US Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, presiding Nuremburg Trials 1946

$ 768 BILLION DOLLARS of American TAXPAYER MONEY Spent by the IDIOT DUBYA on IRAQ and IRAQIS, NOT on America or for Americans.

Praise CHEESES and TAX THE CULTS ! ! !

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

'But then we have the "it's okay to murder unborn babies" coalition.'

Is this not the flip-side of the "abandoned at birth" coalition?

Once you've adopted all of them, then we can talk about next steps. Until you've resolved the elementary issues, leave the more complicated alone. Crawl, then walk.

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guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

Oh I get it, great rationale Jim. If we can't adopt them, kill them.

BTW, adoptee: a person who is adopted. One, such as a child, that is or has been adopted.

Perhaps, I jumped the gun, my apologies. Are you implying that KS can't find enough adopted children for all it's needy children?

Perhaps, I'll wait for clarification, I'm sure my first impression isn't what you meant. No sane person could have meant that.

But then we have the "it's okay to murder unborn babies" coalition.

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

"There are so many couples wanting so badly to adopt a child of their own and who would be perfect parents for the child within the pregnant mother's womb."

And yet Kansas can't find adoptees for all its needy children.

guam - once you've adopted all of them, then we can talk about next steps.

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guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

Good point Mack. Well, actually, no, no it's not a good point at all. In fact, it's rather stupid.

Welfare of the unborn child is the responsibility of both parents.

The right to terminate existence of the child exists morally with neither parent. Horribly, the mother can quite lawfully, virtually at will, destroy her child at almost any point in the pregnancy.

Thanks for the news flash.

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Machiavelli_mania 6 years, 12 months ago

I want legistation that stops men's e rec tions if he is intending to utilize it on someone other than his wife. I am going to call the Congressmen today on this. That should stop some Religious Rite e-rec-tions because they simply cannot seem to remain monogomous either.

Why does the religious Rite feel they must punish women for being women? And that is what they are doing. No buts about it.

Let's punish men for being men then. And stop all extramarital e rec tions, which again would indeed strongly, and frequently affect those Religious Rite CULTERS.

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guamku89 6 years, 12 months ago

I read a few posts on here where the implication was that one thing or another was tearing our country apart.

Legalized abortion on demand is literally destroying our country. We are allowing future citizens to be killed before they have the opportunity to become citizens. There are so many couples wanting so badly to adopt a child of their own and who would be perfect parents for the child within the pregnant mother's womb.

The perception that it is okay to murder the most innocent and defenseless people in our country is outrageous.These instances are when man's law crosses the line of God's law. These are some of the few occassions when civil disobedence is or should be encouraged from the pulpit.

It is difficult to understand, whether one be obedient to the one True God, or simply adhere's to an evolved sense of ethics, how this would be allowed to continue. It is difficult to understand how this terrible crime against humanity has been allowed to continue so many years even in the face of constantly improving scientific and medical techniques.

If we don't repent of this nightmarish sin as we should, either our society will continue to crumble and devolve slowly over time or God may lift the protective blessing we've had for over 200 yrs. Make no mistake about it, our enemies are numerous and ever more powerful as we grow weaker. We need God both as individuals and as a country.

Finally, I'm sure everyone realizes that as running an abortion-mill is a business, profitability is encouraged. The more abortions the better. Given this industry is hardly ethical in it's foundation, many times when a woman or child comes in, they aren't pregnant yet an abortion procedure is performed. Thus leaving the woman to feel a child, albeit a very young one, has been killed leaving her to emotionally scarred w/o the reality of killing her child afterall.

The acceptability of abortion and other attitudes like it are reasons for the decline of the United States today. These attitudes include all sorts of terrible results to include racism or anytime anything is more valuable to society than anyone.

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

"you abhor my beliefs. Don't lie to yourself."

Oh, absolutely not. Its certainly testimony to the power of Jesus' message of love that not even the most wayward Christians can entirely stamp out that truth.

I remember a BBC documentary on the Phelps group just a few months back. The reporter was forced to admit to the viewers that, as long as you avoided certain subject, the Phelps were gracious, loving, welcoming, pleasant people to be around.

You are just petulant because I won't second your literalism belief in unicorns and dragons. Sorry, but when your simplistic literalism conflicts with the reality of God's creation, I stick with God.

"Followers of Christ cannot - indeed, may not - keep their beliefs to themselves."

May I suggest you go down to the district court, walk into the courtroom and exercise your duty? I suspect that you will distinguish quite quickly the difference between "giving witness" (an act mostly done by example not blubbering) and imposing your will (or view of God's will) by the sword upon others.

There's all the difference in the world between relying upon religious faith to inform one's judgment and imposing one's religious faith upon others. As a certain teacher once said: Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. In other words, don't conflate the two into one, or you'll end up sullying God with your worldliness because Christ's kingdom is not of this world.

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Linda Endicott 6 years, 12 months ago

I thought the subject was the sanctity of life.

In which case, bringing up war is totally relevant.

Can you believe in the sanctity of life for infants, but not for others? And if you can, aren't you being a hypocrite?

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purplesage 6 years, 12 months ago

This victory is step one in repealing the horror of Roe v. Wade. Baptist Press carried an article which today reports the results of a British study that 1 in 30 abortions results in a live birth. The chemically aborted babies live typically about and hour and a half but some as long as 6 hours. (See www.bpnews.net)
/>

Some are persistently trying to change the subject. Abortion is not about war. Such a subject change is a tired old tactic to direct attention away from the subject one does not really want to discuss.

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Sasquatch34 6 years, 12 months ago

"Republicans want live babies so they can grow up to be dead soldiers" -George Carlin

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shockchalk 6 years, 12 months ago

That was a great editorial! Thank you for your comments.

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Tom Shewmon 6 years, 12 months ago

"Wow, you really are a winner." -Crispian

So, I must assume since my post was removed, most likely at your request, that you really mean that I am a winner? Your post is still there.

Because I thought it was harassing, abusive sarcasm directed at me.

LJW, please don't violate your own high fairness standards.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

And where are these "public housing, universal health insurance and day care funding lovers" when discussions about protecting unborn children comes up??????????????

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bunnyhawk 6 years, 12 months ago

this is one of the many reasons I only read the journal world online!!!!!

And where are these 'baby-lovers' when discussions about public housing, universal health insurance, and day care funding come up???????????????

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Bladerunner 6 years, 12 months ago

Have you forgotten that you were once a zygote, blastocyst, embroy, and fetus?

Such name calling! You should be ashamed of yourself. Tsk tsk!

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

"That would require that YOU keep your religious beliefs to yourself... "

Followers of Christ cannot - indeed, may not - keep their beliefs to themselves. In fact, any faith that purports universal, immutable truth cannot keep itself silent, lest it fall victim to poor stewardship.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

"I am quite content respecting your beliefs "

James, you abhor my beliefs. Don't lie to yourself.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

"No, and neither do you. Nor does society. Nor does the Church."

You're going to have to explain that one.

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Tom Shewmon 6 years, 12 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Crispian Paul 6 years, 12 months ago

Posted by right_thinker (anonymous) on April 23, 2007 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charlotte, great letter. I feel your pain.

See, the average lefty idiot is focused on their "It's all about me" approach to life 24/7. They could give a flying fig about a viable fetus being scorched with saline or having its' skull collapsed and brains sucked out.

Remember the left hearts themselves.

Yet another example of R_T's hipocrisy. Waaah, those liberals are so mean to us on here. Yet, here you are, unprovoked no less, calling out people whose views are left of yours "idiots". Wow, you really are a winner.

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

"...is the murder of that human being?"

No, and neither do you. Nor does society. Nor does the Church.

"... you so frequently and consistently refer to the subjects of God, god, theism, atheism, Christianity, agnosticism, deism and the like..."

Honestly, I cannot remember ever commenting on atheism, or agnosticism. (Perhaps I'm indifferent to them?) God yes; god no. I do recall a comment about deism, but - as with virtually every other case - in REPONSE to various attempts to either shoehorn religion into matters not religious or simply to misstate theology.

Personally, I'd be happy to leave matters of religion to religion and get on with the affairs of this world when addressing this world's affairs. That would require that YOU keep your religious beliefs to yourself rather than substitute them for every situation where rational judgment is required. Like most Americans, I am quite content respecting your beliefs ... so long as you don't try to force them down my throat.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

And James, you so frequently and consistently refer to the subjects of God, god, theism, atheism, Christianity, agnosticism, deism and the like, that surely YOU are the one obsessed with the matter.

In fact, if you compare your religiously-based posts on this blog to mine, you're clearly the obsessed religious nut job.

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deec 6 years, 12 months ago

The citizens of Iraq, who are sick of our occupation, are largely the ones detonating the bombs.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

"...the human being became a human being at some unknown and undiscoverable point midway through pregnancy, just as God intended."

You surely believe, therefore, that abortion past the "point midway through pregnancy" where " a human being becomes a human being" is the murder of that human being?

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OZ 6 years, 12 months ago

More of the same RADICAL HYPOCRITICAL X-TIAN agenda being shoved down our throats.

It's putrid, just like the RADICAL HYPOCRITICAL, IGNORANT, BIGOTED X-TIANS.

Praise CHEESES and TAX THE CULTS ! ! !

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Pilgrim 6 years, 12 months ago

Posted by merrill (anonymous) on April 23, 2007 at 7:27 a.m.

Meanwhile the pro-lifers support Bush wars where innocent lives of all ages are taken daily.


The US military are not the ones detonating bombs in marketplaces, Richard, and you know it.

I guess you would rather have them executed in a dark alley by Sodom Insane's goon squads, eh?

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BABBOY 6 years, 12 months ago

Good point Sigmond, Bush is not the topic directly.

But, since you bring it up, lets talk about King George for a second. I mean he may be about the most embarrassing example of president this country has ever elected. I have thought so since he did his top gun imitation and landed on the air craft carrier and declared victory in Iraq.

I was watching Real Time last week. I know you probably do not watch it because it really is not a religious right wing fantasy show. But, a statistic was given were 150 people have been hired by President Bush to serve in some capacity in his administration with law degrees from Pat Robinson Law School. We are not talking about small positions but actual positions of power such as being responsible for administration of the federal prosecutors (See Gonzales fiasco). Pat Robinson Law School is a bottom tier law school. Thus, my problem is that King George could have his pick of litter from Harvard, Stanford, or Yale or whatever, but he rather picks some religious flunky who could not get into a better school or was too short sighted to do so.

Further, I make fun of Bush to all might right wing friends and their only response is to make fun of Clinton which tells me they have no answer to how lame George Bush is as a president and as leader.

Lastly, as for abortion, I think Merrel's legimate point is that a lot of people are sick and tired of having governmental decisions and polictics of the same being decided by this stupid issue or religious preferences.

Religious idiots like you are ruining this strong and great Nation that used to be based on merit and substance but is now only worried about whether you are pro-choice or pro-life.

I can go on, but I have to go back to work. I work for a living,

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

"Have you forgotten that you were once a zygote, blastocyst, embroy, and fetus?"

Actually, I was once a sperm cell and an egg.

And I have, statistically, 17 "brother and sister" zygotes, a/k/a, human beings, swept away by God, a/k/a, the master abortionist (that's Master Abortionist, to you!).

Seriously, I the human being became a human being at some unknown and undiscoverable point midway through pregnancy, just as God intended. I never was anything else; neither were you. So please take your ideological (and theological, and biological!) ignorance elsewhere.

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Sigmund 6 years, 12 months ago

Promitida is exactly correct. This straight party-line, "right or wrong" from the left and the right is more than a little annoying, it is causing this country real damage.

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promitida 6 years, 12 months ago

"...and meanwhile pro-lifers are supporting Bush's war..." I don't understand why it has to come down to "lefts" and "rights." It's this attitude that is tearing our country apart. Not all pro-choice people hate Bush, not all pro-life people support him. So, people stop making broad generalizations, it helps nothing especially your cause.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

Jamesaust,

Have you forgotten that you were once a zygote, blastocyst, embroy, and fetus?

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deec 6 years, 12 months ago

Original story:

Washington - The Supreme Court's new conservative majority gave anti-abortion forces a landmark victory Wednesday in a 5-4 decision that bans a controversial abortion procedure nationwide and sets the stage for further restrictions.

It was a long-awaited and resounding win that abortion opponents had hoped to gain from a court pushed to the right by President Bush's appointees.

Other than the letter writer's desire to post some inflammatory language, I fail to see the comparison.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 12 months ago

Nice post, Charlotte!

Thanks.

Marion.

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Jamesaust 6 years, 12 months ago

I'll look forward to the author's support during the next round of budget cuts.

Its so nice to hear a challenge to "compassionate conservatives" who obsess about protecting zygotes but would abandon human babies at birth.

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Sigmund 6 years, 12 months ago

A well written, persuasive, and to the point editorial and merrill's only lame response is to bash Bush? I think that about says it all.

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mom_of_three 6 years, 12 months ago

not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 12 months ago

Thank you, Ms. Ostermann. Great observation!

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prioress 6 years, 12 months ago

merrill: Meanwhile the pro-lifers support Bush wars where innocent lives of all ages are taken daily.

Well, best I can tell, the 'culture of life' (everyone's precious, you know) that Senator Sam spouts about at every opportunity ends when one is born.

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Richard Heckler 6 years, 12 months ago

Meanwhile the pro-lifers support Bush wars where innocent lives of all ages are taken daily.

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Tom Shewmon 6 years, 12 months ago

Charlotte, great letter. I feel your pain.

See, the average lefty idiot is focused on their "It's all about me" approach to life 24/7. They could give a flying fig about a viable fetus being scorched with saline or having its' skull collapsed and brains sucked out.

Remember the left hearts themselves.

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