Archive for Thursday, April 5, 2007

Abortion rise

April 5, 2007

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To the editor:

The Journal-World reported last week that the number of abortions performed in Kansas in 2006 increased by 6.5 percent from the previous year, the first increase in six years. Gov. Sebelius, borrowing a line from her hero, Mr. Clinton, promised to make abortion "safe, legal and rare." Like Mr. Clinton, she has kept it legal, but has rebuffed any and all attempts to make it safer through regulation of abortion clinics or their practices.

Now that we know abortion is not only not rare, but on the increase, how will she live up to her pledge to make it rare? It would be an act of courage, no doubt, given that one of her most ardent financial supporters is the state's most prolific abortionist, George Tiller.

"Safe, legal and rare..." Two lies in a four-word phrase.

Joe Reitz,

Eudora

Comments

jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Nancy Kassebaum at the Alumni center last night quoted someone by saying "The only change that happens quickly is destructive change. Real progress takes time." The abortion problem will not go away overnight. Maybe some time should be spent actually figuring out why the rate is on the increase, and making rational decisions on. . .

hahahahahahahaha. I forgot who I was talking to! BLAME THE DEMOCRATS!!! PRODEATHPRODEATH! LIESLIESLIES!!!! ONLY REPUBLICANS CARE ABOUT BABIES!!!!!

EvaTrujillo 8 years, 3 months ago

You need to leave Dr. Tiller alone, he provides a valuable service by providing abortions to couples who are probably Democratic - thus allowing more Republicans to populate the earth. Oh never mind, most Republicans believe that abortion should be legal.

gr 8 years, 3 months ago

I heard there were greeting cards being offered to women who abort their babies. Produced by 'Exhale'.

Couldn't figure out if these were congratulations cards or sympathy cards. One wonders, sympathy for what, if one believes it is just a procedure to eliminate a 'growth' or something.

If it is expressing sympathy towards the dead baby, one suggestion I heard was:

Roses are red, Violets are blue. I'm still alive, Too bad for you.

prioress 8 years, 3 months ago

If the R's really believed "all life is sacred" they wouldn't support the death penalty.

gr 8 years, 3 months ago

Non-innocent life ISN'T sacred?

Guess life's sacredness is determined by those who determines innocence. Who determines who determines those?

bunnyhawk 8 years, 3 months ago

Abortion is a CHOICE, morons! Safe and legal abortion is a choice that all women should have. The availability of safe and legal abortion services does not requite anyone who believes abortion is wrong to ever, ever, have an abortion. The availability of safe and legal abortion services DOES prevent needless sterilization and death for women who seek illegal abortions from unqualified providers.

Confrontation 8 years, 3 months ago

Why don't some of you anti-abortion mouths get off the internet and start planning some adoptions. You want to take away a woman's right to choose, yet you want to complain about the increase in welfare payments after she has the kid. How many of you have adopted these "wanted" children? If a fetus is so sacred, then why aren't you welcoming it into your home?

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

What would be traitorous is for the Democratic leaders in congress to cut off funding to our soldiers in Iraq..........talk about the death penalty????

Many of us have welcomed these babies into our homes, how about you confrotation????

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

Actually, that would be playing politics with soldiers lives.........kind of like a death sentance....

torcia 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by Dambudzo (anonymous) on April 5, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Who wants someone else's spoor?

If women are so smart why are they always getting pregnant and aborting?"

How are these women getting pregnant Dambudzo...I am sure not by your son

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

As opposed to playing politics with soldiers' lives by sending them on a pre-emptive war to a country that never attacked us under false pretenses?

Daniel Kennamore 8 years, 3 months ago

You can either have abortions legal, or you can pay for all the uninsured medical costs for botched abortions AND/OR the extra cost of unwanted kids on welfare other social programs.

Republicans are supposed to be about cutting costs...which one is more fisically conservative?

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

I'm not aware of a pre-emtive war to a country that never attacked us under false pretenses.......Is that like Bosnia in the Clinton era or are you referring to something else?

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

So why should a woman NOT have a choice to or the right to her body? Why should we, or the government, make the choice for women?
I don't think I could have an abortion, but I am not going to take away someone else's right to decide. Everyday, people have the choice to do with their bodies as they please - smokers, drinkers, drug addicts, etc. Why should a woman not have this right to end a pregnancy?

Millions of "lives" may be spared, but there will be deaths of desperate women due to illegal abortions, infection etc. At what point are we able to decide that a fetus is more important than the life of a woman?

mom_of_three 8 years, 3 months ago

I don't know if abortion is right or wrong. All I know is it wouldn't be right for me. But I am not going to make that decision for someone else.

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

20% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. I guess that makes god the biggest abortionist of all.

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

deec, You're right! And thank God that those babies aren't born because usually a biological reason that the body aborts them........trisome 13, trisome 16, etc. I mean, talk about intelligent design. Of course, you probably aren't aware of these things because you're not used to dealing with pesky little things like.........truth, life, etc.

Hey Scene..........I believe all those Democratic members of congress you love so much voted for that war you keep complaining about.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 8 years, 3 months ago

Isn't interesting that abortions went up in the aftermath of a conservative State School Boards decision to have opt in sex education and abstinance only. The real radicals believe anytime a woman has a period, it's an aborted child. Keep em barefoot and pregnant, and their life expectancy will be lower than ours like they were 100 years ago.

Jamesaust 8 years, 3 months ago

"she has kept it legal, but has rebuffed any and all attempts to make it safer through regulation of abortion clinics or their practices."

I am unaware of any proposed regulation that WOULD make abortion safer but rather barely disguised efforts to frustrate those seeking abortion or the provision of abortion. Please rank Kansas from 1 to 50 among states for the "safety" of abortion. (Nevermind. We all know that safety is not the issue.)

"how will she live up to her pledge to make it rare?"

How will the author of this letter? By telling kids, "no, no, naughty, naughty" for example? Abstinence pledges? Father/daughter proms (100% creepy)? Strangely enough, those who decry abortion the loudest are also the most resistent to any scheme that would lessen its demand (other than criminalization).

Many have strong moral concerns about abortion. I count myself among them. But those who appear obsessed are those who are obsessed about others' sexual practices and activity in general - with abortion only one consequence of focus. Dollars to dougnuts, this author is also highly focused on sex ed, feminism, homosexuality, and some variation on 'the decline in our culture.'

gogoplata 8 years, 3 months ago

A womans right to choose. A womans right to choose to murder her unborn child. There seems to be something wrong with that.

prioress 8 years, 3 months ago

Poshloster: "Innocent life is sacred."

Sorry, Charlie. Senator Brownshirt says "all." Culture of life, you know. Remember, the TEACHER forgave the criminals beside him before he died.

Confrontation 8 years, 3 months ago

Posted by shockchalk (anonymous) on April 5, 2007 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Many of us have welcomed these babies into our homes, how about you confrotation????"

You and the other anti-choice people should all be adopting these kids or donating money to pay for them. It seems like only a few of you actually step up, and usually it's only because you're infertile. I'm pro-choice and have no problem with any woman having an abortion. I also think that all women should be provided with free birth control, which would reduce the number of abortions. Until all the pro-lifers step up and take care of these children, then you have not right to force these women to deliver unwanted children (who no one will take care of).

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

Confrontation.................I have adopted, I do support financially, and no, neither one of us has a fertility issue so thanks for all of your WRONG assumptions about me.

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

scene.....your point about no one directing another persons life is a valid one. I am against abortion but I have been on both sides of this fence. Thank you for your post. Life certainly has a lot of choices for us doesn't it. BTW, I have made a lot of poor ones but I try to learn from them.

shockchalk 8 years, 3 months ago

Are you serious????? After 1 year he's leaving??? Did he get a big pay raise?

ctrmhero 8 years, 3 months ago

For all of the talk about Kathleen the Great. Where is the blame being placed on Crazy Phil. The majority of those years he was AG and made a huge dent in the number of abortions didn't he. I guess that is why he waited until the last minute to go after the Tiller the Killer.

deec 8 years, 3 months ago

"deec, You're right! And thank God that those babies aren't born because usually a biological reason that the body aborts them........trisome 13, trisome 16, etc. I mean, talk about intelligent design. Of course, you probably aren't aware of these things because you're not used to dealing with pesky little things like.........truth, life, etc."

Well, I had 5 pregnancies. I was going to abort my first one, but changed my mind and cancelled the appt. My last pregnancy ended in miscarriage. So god's decision to abort unborn defective babies is okay with you?

Porter 8 years, 3 months ago

Good point RT. But since every life is sacred, care to explain to us why we're sacrificing them every day in Iraq?

Porter 8 years, 3 months ago

Ahhhh, spin.

I asked you WHY we're sacrificing them. Just because they're soldiers? Weak.

Tychoman 8 years, 3 months ago

Whether they're legal or not, women will always choose to have an abortion if they really think it's necessary.

If abortion is legal, it will be safe and regulated. That way women won't retreat to dark alleys and deal with the horrors of unregulated medicine.

werekoala 8 years, 3 months ago

I've said it before:

Anyone who wants abortion illegal in general, but legal in cases of rape/incest is a hypocrite.

Anyone who wants to force a rape victim to carry her attacker's child for 9 months is just cruel.

Where does this leave us?

bjohanning 8 years, 2 months ago

Stop abortion, the Bush administration needs the replacements for the soldiers his misguided policy's have lost in Iraq.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

Why is a man commenting on abortion anyway? The majority of babies born to unwed mothers are raised by their mothers and many with assistance from the state. I so hate hearing men express any opinion on abortion. They can and do walk away from it all if they wish. Women can't do that unless they have an abortion. That is their equivalent of 'walking away'. Except of course in the case of the abortions that happen due to incest, rape, child molestation, etc. Maybe the increase is due to those things. I have never heard of a man who has begged a woman not to abort his child because he will raise it if she doesn't want to. I'm sure this has happened so skip the links but this is not the norm. Joe, if you're so concerned about this rise in abortion statistics, go adopt a few crack babies yourself. Help out the situation that you want to gripe about. Otherwise, shut up.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 8 years, 2 months ago

My husband and his ex-wife adopted a boy who was born to an alcholic mother who lost custody for abuse (like being drunk wasn't abusive enough). He got custody when they divorced, and I become our son's mother when he was 7. He has had such a struggle, and there were times when we were ready to call social services and say we couldn't do it. We stuck it out and he's turned around. He still stuggles, but is going to graduate and is a gifted artist. Should this bimbo have aborted this baby? Maybe, maybe not, but there aren't enough people as saintly as my husband who will work so hard to take care of a child who has gone through so much. He was a hard to place adoption, so we recieved an adoption support check and a medical card until he was 18, otherwise we couldn't have afforded the care he needed, which helped him to become a succcess story. I wish there were a way to keep bimbos like this from getting pregnant, until they were in a position to have one. But that would gripe the far right more. Women are suppose to make babies. That's their job, right? There seem to be a lot of people against abortion, but not enough to step up to the plate to take care of these children. And quite frankly, if I'd ever been raped, and became pregnant, I would abort right away. It would be like being raped for nine months. What a hell for the woman and the child.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

Abortion is murder plain and simple. An individual does not have the right to murder another. Even if it is legal. It isn't hard to get if you don't let your politics get in the way. All of this republican vs democrat garbage sounds like little kids trying to act smart and out do each other on the playground. In a hundred years we will all be dead and no one will care if you were a republican or democrat. If however we could put an end to abortion it would really make a difference.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

Good for you dorothyhr and I mean that sincerely. gogoplata-put your money where your mouth is and go adopt a few crack babies or babies with fetal alcohol syndrome. Go out and do what dorothyhr and her husband did and then you will have the right to scream to high heaven about how evil abortions are. Help the problem to prevent all of the 'murder' you seem so concerned about. Honestly, in 100 years, who will care about any abortions that have happened? I would imagine that just as many republicans as democrats and as many catholics as protestants have had abortions. We'll never know, will we, because I don't think they're tracked that way.

bunnyhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

The reactionary anti-abortion arguments about the sanctity of life MIGHT be more convincing if they weren't so consistently paired with punitive social policies (long jail sentences for drug use, capital punishment, welfare 'reform', etc.). Further, they MIGHT be more convincing if they were ever, ever paired with an equal amount of concern for the lives of the many troubled children among us whose feet are already on the ground. Alas, it's a sabby smokescreen for the real purpose: to control women........not at all unlike the muslim extremists the media is currently villifying.......

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

OfficeGirl, I don't have to give my time or money to have the right to say that murder is not a right for anyone.

mick 8 years, 2 months ago

Science is coming c lose to solving the riddle of why women become pregnant in the first place. Once that is known, we may be able to prevent unwanted pregnancies altogether.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

Murder is against the law. The solution is simple.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

It isn't hard. Murder is against the law. Abortion is murder. So abortion should be against the law. You asked for a solution. Thats my solution. Make abortion illegal.

deec 8 years, 2 months ago

Maybe everybody who is opposed to abortion should get themselves spayed/neutered. Women have always had abortions. Now they are safer and legal.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't need to try again. That is my solution. I never said it would stop abortion. Rape is against the law and it hasn't stopped the crime from happening. How can you not see that it is wrong to commit as you call it "safe and legal" murder?

deec 8 years, 2 months ago

No, it wouldn't stop abortion. It would just make it illegal and dangerous again.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

Abortions are a legal CHOICE. If you do not believe in them, don't have one. They shouldn't be used for birth control either. If only those who are OK with them have them, then who is anyone to judge? I personally wouldn't have one but I sure wouldn't want to see the CHOICE taken away from those who would. How many women have died from having unsafe, unsterile abortions before they were made legal? That's the crime here. Ultimately, better access to reliable birth control and education on birth control are better answers.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

Making it illegal would certainly minimize the problem. There would be fewer murdered babies. It doesn't get anymore dangerous that it is right now for those little ones.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

Making it illegal would make for more women dying from infections from unsterile abortions. More women would have their babies and that would make for more babies to be adopted (or not), more child abuse from women having babies they didn't want in the first place (not saying it's right), more women and children on the welfare ranks..........where would it end?

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

gogoplata, you certainly would be paying money for saying that 'murder' is not a right as you would be paying much higher taxes to support these additional unwanted children. Like I said, adopt some of them--do your part in solving the problem--something real and not walking in front of an abortion clinic carrying a sign to try to intimidate those operating within the law. It's so simple: if you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

You mean more murderers dying from infections from unsterile abortions.

More women would have their babies and that would make for more babies to be adopted (or not), more child abuse from women having babies they didn't want in the first place (not saying it's right), more women and children on the welfare ranks..........where would it end?

This kind of rationale is silly because while it is true, it is also true that many of the children saved by making abortion illegal will grow up in loving families.

shockchalk 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey Ag...............still discussing the abortion issue I see? I wanted to drop in and say hello on this chilly Good Friday!

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

If I steal your wallet. That makes me a thief. If I kill my kid. That makes me a murderer. No one had to make me anything to figure that out.

deec 8 years, 2 months ago

So are you saying we should just kill all women so they can't have abortions?

prpltoes 8 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if those that are so passionate about making abortion illegal are equally as passionate about providing public assistance, universal health care, and education funding.

Or perhaps they follow the president's philosophy and fight to get that baby born only to kick her to the curb and leave her to fend for herself once she is safely out of her mother's belly.

roger_o_thornhill 8 years, 2 months ago

"Now that we know abortion is not only not rare..."

Really? Not rare? MWOL has rare as: Seldom occurring or found. They define seldom as: In few instances. And they define few as: Not many persons or things. I'd be surprised if more than a fraction of a percent of the population of Kansas ever has an abortion.

I quibble with rare, not with abortion.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

I'm saying we shouldn't be killing anyone unless there is a grave reason. Murder is the ultimate violation of human rights.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

He's calling all women who have abortions "murderers". What do we call the fathers of these aborted fetuses? Are they also murderers? While some of those "saved" from abortion may end up in loving homes that is certainly not going to be the case for most. They are either not wanted or their mothers are not able to care for them. No one has an abortion for fun. Obviously those who are so passionate about making abortion illegal are not so equally passionate about adopting some of these unwanted children whose mothers did not abort them. Until the masses are ready to come in and adopt the children who will be in orphanages or foster care if abortion is made illegal, they should just leave it alone. Are these same 'passionate' people also the ones who want to teach only abstinence in schools instead of educating on birth control and making birth control accessible to them? Of course abstinence before marriage for kids is preferable. Is it realistic? No, so don't leave our kids in the dark about the alternatives so that the only one they have left when they do figure out where babies come from is abortion.

dlkrm 8 years, 2 months ago

Lots of comments about anti-abortion people not adopting. Where did you lefties get that idea? There are waiting lists miles long of families trying to adopt. I know many of them and will probably be on the list myself very soon. We are all extremists, as you would say. I guess it is extreme to be anti-murder. That's a sad commentary on you all.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

Who are you talking to OfficeGirl?

"Aborted fetuses" are unborn babies. Calling them aborted fetuses must be something the pro choice movement came up with to make it sound less like murder. That sounds to me like what the military does calling Iraqis, Hajis and Vietnamese, gouks. Whatever it takes to make them sound less human so we can kill them without to much damage done to our conscience.

By the way yes the fathers are also murderers.

dlkrm 8 years, 2 months ago

prpltoes:

So if conservatives sign up the country for universal health care and unlimited deposits into the NEA's bank accounts, you'll give up a woman's right to abortion? Give me a break! The government is never big enough for a true leftie.

OfficeGirl 8 years, 2 months ago

Bottom line is that abortion is legal and it's not anyone's place to give anyone a hard time for doing something that is legal. Extremist, conservative, whatever I'm considered.

prpltoes 8 years, 2 months ago

I am very much anti-abortion. And I am also very much pro-choice. Personally I would never choose to have an abortion, but I will always defend a woman's right to make decisions about her own body.

Does that make me a true leftie? Apparently you have already decided. Or maybe you're just irritated that I pointed out a flaw in conservative thinking.

And, by the way, those list of people waiting to adopt are for people waiting to adopt perfect little fresh babies. There aren't many waiting lists for children that aren't brand new and that need some extra support and love.

gogoplata 8 years, 2 months ago

It was legal to own slaves in America 200 years ago. It was wrong and thankfully that has changed. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should stay that way.

dlkrm 8 years, 2 months ago

The only people I know who have adopted children are white Lawrencians. And none of the adoptees were white, and most were not healthy. But feel free to hide in your bigotry.

Your cowardice by saying you are pro-choice AND anti-abortion would be laughable if it weren't such a serious issue. There is NO reason to be anti-abortion if it's not murder. You are engaging in political doublespeak. The decision being made is not about a woman's body, it's about a baby's life.

I'm unclear what you think is a flaw in conservative thinking, but I am clear about the impossibility of your position.

dlkrm 8 years, 2 months ago

You meant right and wrong. There are absolutes, and murder is absolutely wrong.

staff04 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope the government doesn't outlaw abortion. Not because I want one, but because I believe in the constitution. By DEFAULT, if a nation gives itself power over the reproductive rights of women in the form of banning abortion, it also gives itself the right to mandate it. Anybody ever heard of a little place called China?

prpltoes 8 years, 2 months ago

First I'm a true leftie and now i'm a bigot. That's quite a jump for one day. Some people will always think in black and white. I prefer my complicated shades of grey.

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

Marion: "...from the fact that the Bible says that a name is added to the Book Of Life at the moment of conception."

Uh, no ... it doesn't.

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

Keep looking......

But since conception doesn't exist in the Bible, it might be amusing to see what vague statement is proffered as evidence of a theological theory invented within current human memory and in stark contradiction to two millennia of (often biologically flawed) Church teaching.

Godot 8 years, 2 months ago

staff04, there is no such thing as "reproductive rights" in the constitution or the bill of rights. While there is a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, there are laws against taking another person's life, so that precludes taking another person's life in the pursuit of one's happiness. The explosion in the number of abortions today is a reflection of just that: taking a vulnerable life so that the stronger life is less burdened by having to care for the vulnerable one.

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

"Again, scripture supports the beginning of Life at conception."

I believe its obvious that you are just reading in whatever you'd like.

Conception - a biological event unknown until modern science - has NEVER been part of traditional Christian theology, which spends much effort trying to guess when life begins. (Hint: conception was never anyone's guess.)

What's more, conception does NOT take place in a womb but rather outside of it and several days in advance of implantation of a fetus within the womb. Also, conception is a process not an event - it takes many hours to unfold.

Finally, roughly 50% of conceptions never lead to pregnancy. If one believes that conception equals human life, then "Nature, or Nature's God" must be the biggest abortionist in the universe.

You're free to believe what you'd like but (a) the Bible does not so say, and (b) that's a personal, religious belief that runs contrary to known fact.

deec 8 years, 2 months ago

Also

The Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic dogma that asserts that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was preserved by God from the stain of original sin at the time of her own conception. Specifically, the dogma says she was not afflicted by the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, but was instead filled with grace by God, and furthermore lived a life completely free from sin. It is commonly confused with the doctrine of the incarnation and virgin birth, though the two deal with separate subjects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, the immaculate conception of MARY and the incarnation of JESUS are different, discrete theological points.

Might I also point out that, confusingly, the use of the word "conception" in this term does NOT pinpoint any moment when this conception occurred (in the biological sense); it merely subsumes an indistinct time-event into a later apparent pregnancy. Therefore, the date for this event is automatically set for 9 months before Mary's official (that is, "Church") birthday.

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

"Respect for life is not a value exclusive to Christianity."

Agreed.

And "respect for life" and distinguishing a fetus with a human being (biologically or theologically) aren't exclusive either.

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

"Apparently the FACT that scripture mentions conception numerous times...."

Uh, I believe I went over that already. Recognizing that a person is conceived has nothing to do with ascertaining the moment of conception, let alone assigning 'personhood' to that moment.

"...it is theologically agreed by most scholars that the scriptures cite conception as the beginning of life...."

Name one. (Note: the Pope doesn't count as a "scholar," nor Pat Robertson.)

"...fall back upon your secular dogma."

My dogma is WHOLLY Christian. What's yours?

Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

I guess when Mom wallows in ignorance there's no bottom to the pit.

So which of those cut-and-paste dictionary definitions claim that a zygote is the equivalent of a human being? Which of those cut-and-paste Bible verses claim that the event of human sperm fertilizing a human egg makes a whole person? (That'd be quite the insight seeing that the rest of humanity didn't figure that out until the modern era.)

I'll stick with Thomas Aquinas and Augustine for Christian theology over Dr. -- that is child psychologist! --James Dobson. And by my mark, the Church Fathers trump the Pope any day. Jerry Falwell? The buffoon? C.S. Lewis? The literature professor was a theologian? Who is next? Tammy Faye Baker?

Sorry, I'll stand with two millenia of Christianity on this point. There's a reason why "life begins at conception" didn't become Catholic doctrine until 1995 and even then the concession that "the texts of Sacred Scripture never address the question of deliberate abortion and so do not directly and specifically condemn it" has to be made.

I'd think anyone claiming to speak for God would be a tad more modest - and informed. Perhaps if you stopped confusing cartoon characters with theologians?

ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Prioress the revers is true as well:

"If the R's really believed "all life is sacred" they wouldn't support the death penalty."

The Reverse:

"If the D's really believed "all life is sacred" they wouldn't support abortion."

ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

"There are logical, near-perfect ways to greatly reduce the number of abortions, and consequently, put folks like Tiller out of business (lack of a "customer base"). You can help pursue those, if you wish." And it is called "contraception". Why do the fundies that oppose abortion and hate it so, do not agree to the providing of birth Control.

HELL, with 826,000 abortions done in the US a year, the way to reduce it and take the money out of it is to reduce the pregnancy rate. Those women that had the most abortions are the "unwanted pregnancy". Well DUH! Stop the "unwanted pregnancy" (most of them anyway) with contraception.

We could reduce this 826,000 per year abortion by 80% with contraceptives.

Where is the Far Right Fundies on that proposal?

No they want sex only to "procreate".

This is where I split with the Republican party that "opposes abortion" as a political plank in the party, yet nothing short of abstinence for "birth control".

Look people are gonna do the "horizontal bop" because it is fun and feels good.

No way to stop that wven with all the abstinence lectures you can muster. Contraceptives however can stop that.

"So, what's it gonna be boy? Yes, .... or No?"

"So let me sleep on it, baby baby let me sleep on it"

"I'll give you an answer in the morning"

The backseat wet knickers philosophy of the Meatloaf!

deec 8 years, 2 months ago

5th century to 16 century

* 1140 - The monk John Gratian completed the Concordia discordantium canonum (Harmony of Contradictory Laws) which became the first authoritative collection of Canon law accepted by the Church. In accordance with ancient scholars, it concluded the moral crime of early abortion was not equivalent to that of homicide.
* c. 1200 - Pope Innocent III wrote that when "quickening" occurred, abortion was homicide. Before that, abortion was considered a less serious sin.
* 1250 - According to ancient English common law, abortion after fetal movement or "quickening" was punishable as homicide, and abortion was also punishable "if the foetus is already formed" but not yet quickened, according to Henry Bracton.[47]
* c. 1395 - The Lollards, an English proto-Protestant group, denounce the practice of abortion in The Twelve Conclusions of the Lollards.
* 1487 - Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of Witches), a witch-hunting manual, is published in Germany. It accuses midwives who perform abortions of committing witchcraft.[48]
* 1588 - Pope Sixtus V aligned Church policy with St. Thomas Aquinas' belief that contraception and abortion were crimes against nature and sins against marriage.
* 1591 - Pope Gregory XIV decreed that prior to 116 days (~17 weeks), Church penalties would not be any stricter than local penalties, which varied from country to country.

[edit] 17th century to 19th century

* 1765 - Post-quickening abortion was no longer considered homicide in England, but William Blackstone called it "a very heinous misdemeanor".[49]
* 1803 - England enacts Lord Ellenborough's Act, making abortion after quickening a capital crime, and providing lesser penalties for the felony of abortion before quickening.[50]
* 1842 - The Shogunate in Japan bans induced abortion in Edo. The law does not affect the rest of the country.[18]
* 1861 - The British Parliament passes the Offences Against The Person Act which outlaws abortion.
* 1869 - Pope Pius IX declared that abortion under any circumstance was gravely immoral (mortal sin), and, that anyone who participated in an abortion in any material way had by virtue of that act excommunicated themselves from the Church. In the same year, the Parliament of Canada unifies criminal law in all provinces, banning abortion.
* 1873 - The passage of the Comstock Law in the United States makes it a crime to sell, distribute, or own abortion-related products and services, or to publish information on how to obtain them (see advertisement of abortion services).
* 18201900 - Through the efforts primarily of physicians in the American Medical Association and legislators, most abortions in the U.S. were outlawed.

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