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Archive for Tuesday, March 28, 2006

Gun facts

March 28, 2006

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To the editor:

I have been reading, with great interest, the letters to the editor and posts on the Journal-World Web site, concerning the recent passage of right-to-carry. The anti-gun crowd seems to think there will be carnage in the streets. If they actually took the time to do some research, they would find the facts about concealed carry experience in the other 40-some states which allow it. But of course, if they did that, they would be bereft of arguments. The facts and crime statistics speak volumes - literally.

I would ask people to think about something: What if just one citizen had been armed on each of those planes on 9-11? How might the outcome have been different? Do you think that criminals and terrorists might have second thoughts about committing acts when they have no idea who might be armed, and willing, to defend themselves and others?

Finally, the police, no matter how well intentioned, do not prevent crime. They investigate it after the fact. You are responsible for your own safety, every minute of every day. If you don't understand that, you WILL be a victim.

Rick Laughlin,

Lawrence

Comments

classclown 8 years, 8 months ago

You're comparing apples and oranges Rick. Regardless of how many states allow concealed carry, that does not mean anyone on board an airplane would be carrying. Not unless they smuggled one on the plane which would be a criminal act.

BFPHOTO 8 years, 8 months ago

Is anyone concerned about children playing at other children's houses....finding a weapon, that is loaded (I'm assuming--if they have the gun for protection) and accidentally shooting themself or their friend?

Linda Endicott 8 years, 8 months ago

I've always wondered, especially in homes with children...is a criminal who breaks into your house going to stand there and wait while you unlock the place where the gun is kept, unlock the place where the ammo is kept, and put the two together? If you have to have all these precautions so that a child doesn't accidentally get shot, of what earthly use is the gun to you in the event of a crime?

If you're anything like I am, when I get nervous (and I assume someone breaking into your house would make you nervous), my fingers are all thumbs when I try to do something in a hurry.

classclown 8 years, 8 months ago

What does the issue of guns in the house have to do with concealed carry?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 8 months ago

I think what it means is that for every Clint Eastwood or John Wayne out there with a permit, there'll be at least two Barney Fife's.

grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

You WILL be a victim? Wow, you're on your way to believing, bro.

Sounds like you're already a victim. With an outlook like that, how can you live without a gun? Nice--create the need, then fill it.

Violent crime has decreased in ALL states in the last 25 years, not just CC states, before these 40 states introduced CC, and has continued to decline since. Correlation is not causation, and CC has not reduced crime. So stop it.

xenophonschild 8 years, 8 months ago

Good point, grimpeur. We're wasting our time with these guys, though. They are beyond good sense and redemption. So let them play with their guns; let them debase our civilization, and let them see if it makes them feel any better.

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

So is Rick saying guns should be allowed on airplanes? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Because if guns were allowed then there probably would have been a full-fledged shootout. Would have made a cool action movie.

xeno how is wanting our 2nd amendment right debasing our civilization?

mom_of_three 8 years, 8 months ago

Since I don't believe you could carry concealed weapons on an airplane AT ALL, I don't think a gun would have helped in the 9/11 situation. That was a pointless argument. One passenger with a gun, a suicide highjacker with an airplane. Don't think it would have changed the outcome.

What did people do before this concealed carry law was passed? I didn't see crime rampant in the streets. Did you? It doesn't or won't make a bit of difference, except it is going to let those who carried illegally now be legal.

Todd 8 years, 8 months ago

The whole argument about concealed carry reducing crime is bogus. People should be allowed the freedom to carry a concealed weapon. Note, I didn't say you have the freedom to show it, fire it, tell people you have it, etc... People need to get off their jump-to-conclusions mats.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 8 months ago

It was only a response to BPHOTO's comment about children finding guns in someone's home.

But the same holds true out on the street. If you carry a gun in your purse or pocket, is a criminal going to stand there and wait for you to get it out and get it ready to fire? If you go someplace and have to leave it in the glove compartment of your car, is the criminal going to wait while you go get your gun to protect your family?

What if the criminal assumes that everyone they mug might have a gun, searches you, and takes your gun away? Now they have two...

grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

rightthinker wrote: I'm for the law, but do ponder a real-life self-defense situation. I'm trying to be fair minded and in any situation that would dictate pulling on someone and considering the possible outcomes---nothing about that situation is good, unless the assailant drops his weapon and you don't fire. ...

You're correct, nothing good comes of it. The idea that keeping criminals guessing about who's carrying is effective crime prevention is complete bunk. No doubt a few baddies have been chased by guns, but to confuse this with effective crime prevention policy is short-sighted.

Let me see if I get this straight: now that we've ensured a immense glut of cheap weapons filtering nearly uncontrolled into society, fought hard for registration loopholes at gun shows, and worked hard to prevent passage of any laws to control the flow of deadly weapons into the hands of the general public (including the law-abiding and past, present and future criminals alike), it's suddenly supposed to be obvious that we need to protect ourselves from guns? By carrying even more guns around in public? Hey, maybe we should have thought of that before perverting the 2nd amendment into a personal vigilante blessing. What "well-organized militia" are we part of again?

If I'm a criminal, and I want to rob you at gunpoint, you will be robbed. If you're carrying and go for your gun, you'll be dead, too. Ponder that real-life scenario.

Shot dead because you're carrying. Pity.

Charla Welch 8 years, 8 months ago

mom_of_three wrote: It doesn't or won't make a bit of difference, except it is going to let those who carried illegally now be legal.

Mom, what makes you think people who carry illegally now are going to take the time to get a permit? They aren't carrying legally unless they have a concealed carry permit. This will do nothing to stop people from carrying illegally. That's not the issue with this law.

Todd 8 years, 8 months ago

Look, people should have the freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the freedoms of others. Maybe weapons are useful, maybe not. It's not up to the state to decide.

Enough with the nanny state already. Keep the non-stop bitching to message boards and out of the law books.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

"What if just one citizen had been armed on each of those planes on 9-11?"

That "one citizen" would be crazy and take a few shots during takeoff causing the plane to depressure and crash and everyone would be dead.

Question answered.

grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

Ah, the hero fantasy. Got it.

Go looking for gunplay in crack neighborhoods much? Coz you can sure find it.

If you want it.

Try St. Louis, Chicago, or KC's Paseo for better results than in Lawrence. Been there, lived through it unarmed and in peace for 40 years.

Your fear of 17 y.o. black males and choice of patrol areas is more likely to cause you problems with the police than with the ACLU, anyway, especially when you drop the kid who's reaching for his wallet to pay for his slurpee. After all, when all you have for protection is a gun, everything starts to look like a target.

You've made a powerful case against concealed carry.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

EDUCATION! That is, in my opinion, the answer to all concerns especially those regarding children around firearms. I personally loathe using the word weapon to describe guns, firearms are tools just like a hammer or ice pick, both of which can be quite lethal.

If a concerned citizen is trained properly to shoot and defend him or herself in dangerous situations they will know how and when to react. These training courses are offered through the NRA but I would recommend going through IDPA as they train people for real life situations similar to those police train for. Personally I am thrilled that this passed BUT I wish the education standards were higher.

As for the kiddies, if you are worried about them finding a gun at a friends house TEACH them what to do. Take them to a firearms safety class geared towards children. Not only does it teach firearm safety but deeper concentration levels as well. That is if you expose them to competitive shooting which is the safest sport in the world.

xenophonschild 8 years, 8 months ago

We do not live in a barbaric, lawless society. We live in Kansas. Many of us choose to live here precisely because it is not a major urban center, with all the negative nuances that entails. There simply is no need for anyone but law enforcement professionals to carry weapons in this state.

However, one of the lessons of growing old is to accept things you cannot change. Our elected officials have spoken and we must adjust to the new reality that grimpeur and others have so eloquently described.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

xeno- Tell that line to a survivor of a violent rape and see how fast they laugh in your face.

xenophonschild 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, then! Why don't you move to K.C., and take advantage of opportunities to shoot every nineteen-year-old, braided, gold-toothed, rap-playing black kid who scowls in your direction? In fact, it would seem a good thing for all you FCCR's to migrate accordingly, and fulfull your manifest destinies. Yee-hah!

xenophonschild 8 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, bankboy 119. Let my frustration with the gun nuts get out of the bag. They really think they want to shoot somebody . . . simply amazing.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

No, you misunderstand my position and those of the 'gun nuts' that I know. We don't WANT to hurt anyone let alone shoot someone, however we do want to be prepared and capable of legally defending our families and ourselves. With proper training one would know when to pull their firearm out and where to aim and when to fire.
I honestly can say that as much as I love shooting guns I hope that I never have to shoot another human. But, if I feel I am in danger, I will do what I have to do to save myself and family. I believe that is a basic instinct in all animals and humans.

ACP 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm the guy you are all railing against. I give up. You are all just too smart for me. You would place all of those of us who own guns and believe in the right to carry concealed firearms in some narrow-minded, bigotted little pigeon hole which convinces you of your own superiority. You portray us as mindless, knuckle-dragging, macho idiots. I have news for you. Many of us are just as smart and educated as you think you are. You have no better answers--just other arguments. But hey, that's okay with me. We don't need, nor want, your support or permission. Concealed carry is now the law. Get over it and get over yourselves.

grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

rightthinker, tsk, tsk. I'm a gun owner and received training, hunted, earned high marksmanship rankings and won medals in competitive shooting at a young age. I've used guns on the farm, in the target range in my inner-city school and in high-falutin' military academies. I enjoy shooting as a hobby, and I've fired and owned a wide range of firearms.

So you're mistaken. Again.

The only liberalism I see is decades of liberal distribution of deadly weapons onto the streets of our nation, with predictable results, under the guise of preserving freedoms allegedly given by our constitution.

Now that those guns flood the streets (as predicted) and anyone can get them, we're to pretend that more guns, in public, is going to make the street safer? Or somehow decrease the amount of gun crime? Believe what you wish about the likelihood that you yourself are going to be caught up in a coke deal gone bad between strangers where you have to intervene with a gun for your own protection. Yet this far-fetched scenario is typical of what's playing in your head as you consider taking yet another weapon into the streets.

Just like on TV.

Yet this is what drives CCW as policy. I don't have negative feelings about guns. I have negative feelings about people who live in constant fear of gun violence walking around in public places with loaded weapons and visions of heroic soldier of fortune action figures in their heads, saving helpless families from evildoers.

I wonder where the certainty that your life will be threatened comes from. I don't feel the need to carry a gun. Not because there has been no evidence to date that carrying reduces crime, despite the claims here and elsewhere. Not because crime rates in general, and violent crime rates in particular, have gone down in states with CCW at the same rate as in states without CCW. It's because more guns make gun violence more likely. Not less likely.

But for some reason, you're convinced that if you don't buy and carry a gun, you're not safe. I have news for you: you still won't be safe. You think that by carrying you're exercising a constitutional right and protecting yourself. But you're doing neither. You're only endangering yourself and others.

ACP 8 years, 8 months ago

Your arguements were made in every single state which has passed concealed carry laws. Predictions were made of carnage in the streets. Just hasn't happened. Again, you put us in the niche you want us in. You try to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head, which are YOUR own constructs. Not one single pro-gun person on this site has said anything remotely approaching what you claim WE think. But, I can give you a list of the things which have been said about us on this site:

Clint Eastwood John Wayne Barney Fife Beyond good sense and redemption Debase our civilisation crazy hero fantasy gun nuts...really think they want to shoot somebody retarded brother simple minded

And you, "...you're convinced that if you don't buy and carry a gun, your not safe."

You know nothing about me! Don't presume that you do. I have read very little on this site other than intellectual snobbery. But you will believe what you want to believe and nothing I could say would make one iota of difference to you.

ACP 8 years, 8 months ago

As noted before, I don't care to be pigeon-holed. I've been around the block a time or two and made my own observations. I try to treat everyone with defference and expect to be teated likewise. Having said that, I am liberal (not socialist) about many things. I don't stick my nose where it doesn't belong--such as a womans womb or another persons bedroom habits. What they do does not concern me. I have enough to contend with in my own life and career. I am conservative in other areas. Just don't mistake my views on firearms with typical conservative views, thank you.

lawrencian 8 years, 8 months ago

Don't get me wrong, I am not convinced that a concealed carry law is really necessary, but doesn't the new law (which does not go into effect until July 1, right?) require that you have a PERMIT to carry that concealed weapon? And aren't you supposed to have a permit to own it in the first place? So...... people carrying a concealed weapon had to get TWO permits? I hope that someone who knows more about this will let us know.

Arguments about people who commit crimes aren't really appropriate, since they're already doing things illegally, in my opinion. Our civilisation is already so damaged by crime and post-9/11 changes, I don't think it is fair to pin the decline of civilisation on a concealed carry law!

ACP 8 years, 8 months ago

The law goes into effect on 1 Jan. 2007. Yes, one will need a permit to carry concealed and no, one does not need a permit to own a handgun in Kansas. People will be required to take and pass an 8-hour course, which should cover safety, pertinent laws and ways of carrying. A certificate for the class will have to be produced at the time of application and you will be fingerprinted. The local Sheriff's office will be the place to apply, when the time comes. I think the fee will be around 150 dollars.

Ember 8 years, 8 months ago

How about we get rid of ALL the firearms and go back tot eh days when you actually needed SKILL to use a weapon?

Yes, boys and girls, I'm talking about the Dark, Middle and Renaissance Ages. Too much cowardice in this day and age. Hell, I'm just over 30 and I remember when fights were settled with fists and feet, not Glocks and Techs.

CCW is nice, since it will allow people who want to carry a firearm to do so legally. Goddess knows that we have a plethera of morons doing it illegally, for whatever drain bamaged reasons they care to spew.

It will have some impact on crime, but enough to truly shift the balance of power from the hoodlums of the universe to those that actually care to abide by the laws.

And as to the genetically challenged breeder who brought up guns in homes.

It's called trigger guards, lock outs and GASP gun safes. I know your brain is likely pickled with the methane fumes by this point, but do try using it once in a while.

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