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Kansas and regional news

Kansas and regional news

Obama criticizes ‘ownership society’

Illinois Democrat brings in record Washington Days crowd

March 4, 2006

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— Rising Democratic star U.S. Sen. Barack Obama on Friday wowed the party faithful at a record-breaking event as he outlined what he said was the difference between President Bush's values and traditional American values.

"The reason they don't believe that government has a role in solving national problems is because they think government is the problem," Obama said to approximately 1,500 people at the Kansas Democratic Party Washington Days convention.

Obama, a Democrat from Illinois, said Bush's political philosophy consists of giving tax breaks and encouraging "everyone to go buy your own health care, your own retirement and security, your own child care, your own schools, your own private security forces, your own roads, your own levees.

"It's called the ownership society. In our past there has been another name for it; it's called social Darwinism. Every man or woman for him or herself," he said.

Obama said Americans were desperate for leaders to lift the country over the politics of selfishness, anxiety and cynicism.

"We know that government can't solve all our problems, and we don't want it to.

"But we also know that there are some things we can't do on our own. There are some things we do better together.

"We have an individual responsibility but we also have a collective responsibility to each other," he said.

Republican Party Chairman Tim Shallenburger said most Kansans supported the president and national Democrats probably hurt Democrats' efforts in Kansas. "I don't see us losing ground," he said of this year's elections.

Senator Barack Obama, D-Illinois, center, shakes hands with Topekan Ted Ensley as Obama is escorted by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to the ballroom of the downtown Topeka Ramada Inn, in this file photo. Late Friday, Obama selected Delaware Sen. Joe Biden for the Democratic ticket, ending a frenzy of speculation that also swirled around Sebelius, who was considered by most political observers as among the top tier of possible nominees.

Senator Barack Obama, D-Illinois, center, shakes hands with Topekan Ted Ensley as Obama is escorted by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to the ballroom of the downtown Topeka Ramada Inn, in this file photo. Late Friday, Obama selected Delaware Sen. Joe Biden for the Democratic ticket, ending a frenzy of speculation that also swirled around Sebelius, who was considered by most political observers as among the top tier of possible nominees.

Obama, whose grandparents were from Augusta and El Dorado, compared their plight of starting a family during the Great Depression and World War II, with the uncertainty of today.

Obama, 44, was elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004, the same year in which he gained prominence after his keynote address during the Democratic Party national convention.

While Obama's speech Friday focused on differences between Democrats and Republicans on the national scene, Kansas Democrats, vastly outnumbered by Republicans, welcomed GOP members.

"We believe that competence and qualifications are more important than politics and party labels," Gov. Kathleen Sebelius said speaking before Obama.

She said Democrats must "continue to build bridges to Kansans who are Democrats but they just don't know it yet."

Approximately 1,150 people paid $125 per plate to eat and hear Obama speak at the Ramada Inn Downtown, and another 200 paid $20 per ticket to watch the speech on closed-circuit television in an overflow room.

It was the largest Washington Days event in recent memory.

"I think Democrats are coming back," state Rep. Bob Grant, of Cherokee, said as he took in the crowd.

Democrats hope to make gains. In addition to Sebelius seeking her second term, U.S. Rep. Dennis Moore, whose district includes east Lawrence, is seeking a fifth term. And Democrats believe they have a good shot at unseating Atty. Gen. Phill Kline with newly turned Democrat Paul Morrison, the Johnson County district attorney.

Numerous Lawrence politicians and party workers attended the event. Rep. Barbara Ballard led the crowd in singing the national anthem, and the Rev. Peter Luckey, a pastor at Plymouth Congregational Church, led the prayer.

About 50 Kansas University Democrats made the trip.

"There are specific races that we will hold onto and also make some gains. I'm very excited about the Paul Morrison race," said Elizabeth Willard, a senior political science major from St. Louis.

Nate Thames, a senior from Wichita and vice president of the KU Democrats, said he was impressed with the turnout of KU students. "These are college kids on a Friday night coming to Topeka," he noted.

Comments

Linda Endicott 8 years, 9 months ago

The families of gay people can and many do simply ignore all of those nice little papers, and do whatever the hell they want. They get away with this, too, because it seems marriage does have more privilege than a mere contract. People have had to go to court to fight for custody of children, even when the person stated in a will where the children were to go.

And no, gay people can't adopt in every state. It's against the law in Florida, for one. There may be more.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Actually, married couples are advised to draw those papers up, as well. My spouse and I have. HIPPA (Health Insurance Portability and Privacty Act) has made this necessary. If you have not made a written statement and filed it with your health care provider that you give permision to discuss your health conditions with a specific person, then that person (including your spouse) is out of the loop.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

And what do today's republicans resemble?

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

No one has answered any of the questions I've posed.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 9 months ago

As long as you're not sick, the insurance bidness been berry, berry good to some, right, Pilgrim?

Godot, your last post is pure strawman.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Sigmund, why don't you offer some specific examples of "recent" history?

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

Actually that's what we have here in the USA-utopia. Those who won't or can't work are supported, aren't they.

Jamesaust 8 years, 9 months ago

"And you and your partner can both draw up papers that give one another not only hospital visitation rights, but also power to make medical and financial decisions for one another."

Wow. You make it sound so easy. Perhaps married couples can then be stripped of these "incidents of marriage" and the couple can just "draw up papers" instead if its all so easy. Talk to a partner of a serviceman (or women) about the difficulty of these substitutes sometime.

And no, DereekKU cannot do these things. These are "incidents of marriage" and they are CONSTITUTIONALLY banned in Kansas. I may not agree with all of DereekKU's politics but that doesn't mean I agree with his exclusion from "the country club" of hypocritcal majoritarian society either.

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

The democrat party needs to rid itself of socialists and spokespeople like Howard Dean and become again the party of people like Harry Truman.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Pilgrim,

You're petrified. How much money will have to be squandered before you feel safe? Please let me know because this could go on forever. How much for you to feel safe?

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Agreed, jimincountry. All my family were Democrats, and so was I, until sometime between 1996 and 2000.

Today's Democrats don't resemble the Democrats of the past.

bankboy119 8 years, 9 months ago

mefirst, look at my first post. I pointed out several places where controlled healthcare hasn't work. Where it's been tried, it has failed, 100% of the time. Pretty high failure rate.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Bankboy--ever been to Cuba? My husband wrote his dissertation on Cuba; he's been there. I"m going to trust his research.

I'd invite you to look up what the WHO has to say about Cuban health care.

Jeff Barclay 8 years, 9 months ago

I am from Illinois. Obama embraces the failed notion of Marxist socialism. I'll take the ownership society over that any day.

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

What does hell in a handbasket really mean? Anyway usaschools, you are probably correct in some ways and we ludicrous but less pretentious posters are probably correct in some ways. Utopia is the only answer. Then we can all just get along and nobody would have to work to support someone who won't or can't.
We need a 3rd party! We'll call it utopianism!

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

I never used to talk politics until Jimmy Carter became president instead of joining a ministry where he couldn't do any harm. Now Obama and Bush come around and get us all riled up again. You dems should get some kind of descent candidate and stop having people like chevy chase and whoopie goldberg speaking on your candidate's behalf.

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

mefirst, the dems went to war along with the repubs. That's not the point. I am old enough to remember the dems of 40's and 50's-my parents were dem and my first presidential vote was for JFK in 1960. This party of Teddy Kennedy and his ilk doesn't measure up to his brother's party. Bush is president because the dems didn't have a viable candidate.

james bush 8 years, 9 months ago

Dems and libs- or take your choice of secularist, humanist, naturalist, progressive- have nurtured the have vs have-not politcal conflict for 50 years. The dem scheme is to keep as many people dependent on government as possible and promote the victim mentality among the have-nots.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Hate the Yankees, what is your term, then, for people who believe in the redistribution of wealth through taxation and confiscation of property, who believe that people should be dependent upon government for education, jobs, health care, food, housing and old age subsistence, who do not believe in the value of ownership, who believe in taking from the ones who strive to excel to give to those who do not?

lunacydetector 8 years, 9 months ago

i always think of osama, obama bin ladin?

as a former democrat who left because of the party's bigotry, the democrats need to be realistic and truly open minded because they are slowly attritting themselves. they will eventually be a party of nothing.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

daREEKKU, you have most of the rights you claim you don't. last I knew, it is not illegal to burn a flag in protest. Why you would want to do that, I don't know, because it is sooooo overdone these days. And you and your partner can both draw up papers that give one another not only hospital visitation rights, but also power to make medical and financial decisions for one another. And, last I knew, you still have the right to adopt a child.

So you can't get married. Count your blessings.

Fatty_McButterpants 8 years, 9 months ago

I tell you what...I'm not a member of the Democratic party but the radical religious conservatism that the Republican party seems to be embracing like a long lost child is making the democratic party look better by the second.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Mefirst, we both agree that we should not have our money confiscated to build up a military-industrial complex. But confiscating money to "help others" is a joke, too. As long as we have people who enjoy power in charge of our money, we will see our money squandered and misused.

Our country is too big to support the society of your dreams. I actually think our country is too big, anyway. That is what is wrong. We have too much money flowing to a bloated central government that is out of control.

letsgetwise 8 years, 9 months ago

mefirst- We used COBRA on our 3rd child, and in reality, it was cheaper than the hospital, doctor, lab, etc.,etc., bill. Didn't make it easy, but numbers wise, it was cheaper (believe it or not):) I'm totally with you on health care costs. There is an organization that probably is more like a cooperative, where everyone "joins", then submits their medical bills or needs as they arise, then everyone pays (as their premium)to that person (after the bills have been reviewed) whatever "their fair share" (that's also been reviewed and allocated.) I don't know all the "ins and outs" of it, but it's been working with all the good intentions of providing for health care costs, while distributing the burden between all that choose to belong.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Well Pilgrim,

I'd rather my money, confiscated through taxes go toward helping meet the needs of the citizenry, than plumping up the pockets of the military industrial complex like is currently the case.

What do you call a society that would rather throw all its money into making war than helping its people? What is the name for such a system of government? Doesn't sound much like a free society to me.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

If Kansas were a country of its own, like Cuba, isolated, controlling who comes in and who gets out, then it might be possible for the state to provide excellent health care to everyone. The price would be freedom of speech, freedom of movement, free commerce, luxuries like new cars, air conditioning, free press, iPods, Levis, Nikes, and academic freedom, to mention a few.

The US cannot do what "TONS of industrialized countries" do regarding health care and infant mortality because each of those TONS of industrialized countries is likely smaller than a fraction of the size of the US.....certainly smaller than the State of Kansas. And few, if any, of those TONS of industrialized countries guarantees the rights and freedoms that the US does.

Those TONS of industrialized countries you cite also rely upon the United States for their military protection. That is why they can spend more money on health care than they do on national defense.

How many countries does it take to make a TON, anyway?

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Republicans don't all look alike today. Some of them resemble 18th century Calvinists; some, like Tom Delay, could pass for Lyndon Johnson democrats; a few are of the Dwight Eisenhower mold.

I think the reason Democrats hate the Republicans so much right now is because the Republicans are acting like the Democrats did when the Dems were in the majority. The want the Republicans continue to act the way they did when when the Repubs were the minority (i.e. powerless).

DaREEKKU 8 years, 9 months ago

The reason people who vote Democrat are mad as well, Godot, is because if we don't support the Republican party we are called anti-christ terrorists. We are riduculed, made fun of, and thrown around and frankly it gets old after awhile. I personally support a PR system, at least that way I could vote for the party I wanted rather than the lesser of the two evils. It's not perfect but look how divisive we are today as a result of a two party system.

DaREEKKU 8 years, 9 months ago

jay_z in a voucher systerm the people choose what school they want their money to go to rather than the government which would include tax dollars going to religious schools (a clear violation of the seperation of church state issue). Also in terms of my rights, gee where should I beging: Adoption Rights, Marriage Rights, Spousal Benefits Privacy Rights, Freedom to burn a flag in protest, want more? Some of you take for granted that you'll be able to see you spouse if they are admitted into a hospital, I won't even get THAT right just because of our gender being the same. If being reasonable has to be defined by your terms of "radical liberal" then sign me up! I'm not defined as a Democrat, I just have views that certain (not all mind you) Democrats respect so I vote Democrat.

letsgetwise 8 years, 9 months ago

Did I miss something here?
My family is struggling too. I have compassion, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. And I have worked hard all of my life, and a "handout" ISN"T available for ALL issues. SHOULD it be? What are you saying? I simply was able to work with someone to help with our hospital bill. So...because I did this on my own (out of necessity) I'm saying this should just be available for me? Far from it! I'm saying it's usually there in some form or another. Every man for himself is not a statement of compassion. I don't believe I said it.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

jimi,

please don't pretend that the democrats weren't backed into a political corner. To not vote for war in Iraq would've been political suicide, because as everyone here knows...not supporting the war = anti-americanism. I have issues with the Democratic party...not totally satisfied with them either.

This military industrial complex didn't start with this war in Iraq, but you can't deny that Bush & friends have profitted from bilking the tax payers, using fear and paranoia to justify this ridiculous spending. And, $8.8 billion in Iraq war spending remains unaccounted for. You don't have a problem with that?

tpatric 8 years, 9 months ago

Neither the Democrat nor Republican party is the party of our fathers. Both have altered their core philosophies over the years. The core of both parties today are quite similar, it is the fringe or extreme wings of each party where the differences lie. Traditionally, when one of these extreme candidates wins the nomination, it is the moderate in the other party who wins, or whoever is able to latch onto the fear factor of the moment before the other one. We have had good presidents and bad presidents from both parties. Those who I respect the most are those who held to their principles regardless of the risk or which of their friends or backers might be offended. Unlike my father who voted straight Dixiecrat, I do not vote the party line, but cast my vote for each individual candidate based on his/her qualities and philosophy. Need a third party? No, each of two main parties has enough internal camps that a third party is redundant.

usaschools 8 years, 9 months ago

Obama is a very articulate individual. I'm sure his message was well received by those in attendance. However, he used too many big words for his message to be translated by the LJW to the masses. His comments were spot-on. The "Ownership Society" is social Darwinism. There is a legitimate purpose for the federal government that goes beyond defense.

The problem with having a vision of what America could be, of how our nation could achieve true greatness, is that it cannot be articulated in small words, sound bytes, slogans, or by marginalizing others. It appears that most people find it more fun to hate, blame, accuse, and repeat talking points than to envision, think for themselves, and compromise. Until we can raise the level of political discourse FAR above what we see in the often ludicrous posts on this board, we will continue to blame each other while this nation goes to hell in a handbasket.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 9 months ago

When it comes to discussion of health care, the right-wing ideologues always like to ignore the facts-- single-payer healthcare plans in industrialized countries roughly similar to the US cost less and deliver better healthcare than the really stupid "system" we have here. And as mefirst points out, even Cuba does better than the US in providing health care for all.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Are you lecturing me, letsgetwise? Your post offered nothing of interest.

You just helped prove my point. We all need help. Someone donated those funds you used to help subsidize the birth of your child. That money didn't...poof, just appear. That's an example of interdependence.

I'm glad your kids are doing great. I don't live in the best house in town either...far from it. And, guess what, you're making it, as you say. Thanks to the help of others.

letsgetwise 8 years, 9 months ago

mefirst... Am I lecturing you? If the shoe fits... Nothing of interest? I believe it. Life is hard. There is help out there, does it alway have to be the government's responsibility? I'm not happy with all the decisions that this president and this government has made, I just don't believe that "they're" always at fault. (No matter who is president) Did you want a name of the hospital that would be willing to help you out? Did you want the name of an organization or church or someone that would work with you? I'll provide some if you do. You are correct, we all need help, in one form or another.

sloppyscience 8 years, 9 months ago

godot Do you really believe he was wrong in stating that republicans want people to pay for their own education? Have you paid any attention at all to the events in your own state? Republicans HATE the NEA, and public education in general and would love total private schooling. In case you aren't well read on the subject, private schooling is when people pay for their own education

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Shoe don't fit.

We may be arguing the same point. My ears piqued when you used the term "handout." To me, that's the problem with this country, people act as if receiving help is somehow a bad thing, like folks should be ashamed.

While I appreciate your offer to hook me up with someone who can help, I won't need it. I'll suck it up, pay the $670 premiums for insurance and move on. My irritation with my own circumstances doesn't arise out of concern for myself, necessarily, but for others who find themselves in a similiar situation, but can't pay the insurance premiums and go broke just trying to maintain their health and the health of their families.

DaREEKKU 8 years, 9 months ago

Republicans blame and point fingers all the time, what about them? Oh, school vouchers, wouldn't that be choosing what school you want to buy? Just an example. AH, so I see the new Republican name calling scheme coming into play. They went from Patriotic, Terrorism to Socialism to scare people to vote for them. I'm voting for Obama. Like I said earlier. Republicans have become quite excellent at childish name calling. I'm tired of games...

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

It's really hard to compare Cuba to the U.S., in terms of whose doctors are better, but when you compare Cuba with the rest of the developing world, they're number one for research, producing medicine, and training doctors. They hold international conferences and doctors come from around the globe to get trained in Cuba.

I know people in France, England, and Cuba. They appreciate the quality of health care they receive in their countries, and when they hear the stories of our health care...namely, people dying because they don't have coverage, they think we're crazy. When we tell them about prescription costs, they shudder. They're needs are met.

I don't care who controls healthcare. But, can't we all agree that the premiums are out of control, and the cost of meds too?

Jay_Z 8 years, 9 months ago

Dareekku: As bankboy pointed out....it's real simple. The levees needed to be fixed LONG before Bush became president. That's been well documented. To argue the breaking of the levees was Bush's fault is just asinine and shows your radical liberalism.

I am also intrigued by your mention of school vouchers. Are you saying that in a voucher system the government controls what school you send your child to (or as you say, what school you want to "buy"--whatever that means)? Please explain because I am pretty sure it is the exact opposite as you say.

Jamesaust 8 years, 9 months ago

Big government Democrats vs. Big government Republicans. Wow, what a choice.

Presidents ranked in order of their expansion of social spending: Roosevelt (F), Johnson (L), Bush (G.W.). 'Nuf said.

They'll not be a vibrant Democrat party in Kansas as there just isn't a big enough kernel to work from. A Kansas Democrat Party will always have insufficient heft to draw upon itself for its own identity as opposed to drawing on the national Democrat Party, which is too leftist for Kansas. The most the Kansas Dems can hope to do is (a) build vibrant local parties in places like KCK, Lawrence, Topeka, and Wichita, and (b) find select individuals (i.e., Sebelius) who can as persons first, Democrats second, capture high level posititions. Strategies outside of those two are a waste of limited resources.

bankboy119 8 years, 9 months ago

wise, working out your payments isn't taking a handout. That is the business working on a payment plan so they do in fact get their money. Had they demanded the money, they could have reported you to the credit agency and never gotten their money if it was turned over to collections. Those collection agencies can buy the debts from companies for pennies on the dollar. I've heard as low as $.07 for each dollar because the companies know they aren't going to get their money back. So if it was a $10,000 bill and you worked out arrangements then the hospital ends up getting $10,000 eventually instead of a measely $700.

Mefirst...quality healthcare in Cuba? What are you smoking because I want some?

letsgetwise 8 years, 9 months ago

Healthcare issues?--so the government should extend healthcare coverage--and just who is the "GOVERNMENT"? You and me! So...my taxes will increase even more, because "WE" want the "GOVERNMENT" to "GIVE" us healthcare. What's wrong with this picture? I have been on both sides of the coin of this issue. I have insurance that helped cover the cost of 3 of my 5 children. I had COBRA to help cover the cost of the 4th. The 5th...well guess what? We paid for the little blessing out of our own pockets. We had to work out a "deal" with the hospital for the payments, and were labeled one of there charity cases, but you know what? We're making it. The bill is paid. No more babies for us. My husband and I both work (I'm not thrilled with that) but you do what it takes. My kids are doing fine in school. We don't live in the best house in town, but we have a warm house, food to eat and can have a party by ourselves because there is this many of us. I've tried to teach my kids that money isn't everything (but it helps), that a hand-out isn't wrong, but it is not available (and shouldn't be) for all issues. RESPONSIBILITY is key in all decisions. COMPASSION is a must to make "your world" work.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Oh, I like this one...". I've tried to teach my kids that money isn't everything (but it helps), that a hand-out isn't wrong, but it is not available (and shouldn't be) for all issues."

Letsgetwise...A handout shouldn't be available for "all issues"...just the ones you and your family need. Sounds fair. You're one of the"deserving..."

I happen to know a lot of people who work hard, do their best, and try to raise their children on next to nothing, but they're still struggling. These "handouts" you refer to...sounds like basic human compassion to me. On that we agree...compassion is a necessity. Where's the compassion in every man for himself...And, don't take none of mine to help them?

Steve Jacob 8 years, 9 months ago

I really like Barack Obama to run for president in the future. Think about it, middle aged white men don't vote dem, so why nominate one? I also joke (half joking) that Obama has one big disavantage running for president. He's very short. If you don't think that matters, remember the SNL debate in 1992 where Dana Carvy as Perot went to the podium and got the lift to raise him up.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Obama just couldn't help himself, could he? He was on the right track, saying the Republicans, "everyone to go buy your own health care, your own retirement and security, your own child care, "

and then he starts drifting away from the truth by saying, "your own schools,"

and then dives into the depths of out and out lies with, " your own private security forces, your own roads, your own levees."

At least he has shown himself, early on, to be a socialist and someone who is willing to lie in order to get attention.

Bye, bye, Obama.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

I'm not asking the government to give me FREE healthcare. I'm willing to pay, but let's be reasonable...I make a decent middle-class income, but I cannot afford health care premiums of $670. Can you?

DaREEKKU 8 years, 9 months ago

Oh bankboy, first of all don't call me honey ;-). Second the levees weren't fine and needed rebuilt...or is a city in ruins not enough evidence for you? Levees aside, look how they are living down there because of the former FEMA director (appointed by Bush) and Bush's policies. Oh wait....let's not hold the President responsible for anything for fear that I may be called unpatriotic yet again. Obama isn't socialist, jesus. On the terms of more government, what do you call what's happened under the Bush administration? More departments, more centrally siphoned power...isn't that a more socialist principle? Think about that for awhile. The government is HUGE right now, with more liberties being controlled and dictated by government. Keep it up, I'm sure by the time I get off work there will be over 180 posts mostly from conservatives throwing out the Socialist label preparing for the elections this year. We've all seen in the recent past how they deal with elections with under the table money and dirty voting techniques. Can't wait!

Jay_Z 8 years, 9 months ago

Dareekku: what rights do you want back? I'll expect to hear the Patriot Act has taken almost all of your rights away. Please provide examples of what specific rights have been taken away from you.

Look, I don't want a government controlled healthcare system--look at where it has failed elsewhere--and I want personal retirement accounts--do away with social security b/c it is just a ridiculous system. I am sick of the "entitlement society" that many Democrats yearn for. No one should demand/expect entitlements from the government. I don't want to pay healthcare costs for some meth-head, or an illegal immigrant. I don't want to put in money to a failing social security system when I could better invest that money myself. I do not want "big brother" to control my destiny, I'd rather take care of myself.

Jay_Z 8 years, 9 months ago

So Obama wants the government to take care of everything for us: healthcare, retirement, etc. An ownership society is bad? What is this guy smoking? Sorry, but I'd rather be in control of my own healthcare and retirement. Yes, government should provide the structure/regulations for these things, but it should not make individual-level decisions for us.

Also, I never knew it was "Bush's philosophy to encourage us to buy our own private security forces, our own roads, and our own levees." I must have missed Bush make those statements. What a crock of you know what from another BS Democrat.

DaREEKKU 8 years, 9 months ago

Jay_z-- President bush siphoned money (and my friends as well, how many of you posting are of draft age as well?) into Iraq for his personal war thus leaving our national security up in the air. That money was supposed to go into a better levee system but instead was put into the war. Just to get technical. I won't even touch on their corrupt politics, oh and let's address the fact that if you aren't a Christian you can pretty much suck on a egg in this country. On another note, as a disgruntled Democrat it's nice to see SOMEBODY in the party taking shape. I've really grown to hate Hilary Clinton...I'm thinking Obama for President. PS Jay_Z and all you others who think it's quote "BS" that he's saying we're on our own.....try being a minority in this country.....I get crapped on on a daily basis thanks to avid Bush supporters. I want my rights back, my country back, and our dignity back. I'll take my side with Obama.

HateTheYankees 8 years, 9 months ago

I don't even want to get involved with the politics of this discussion, but can we PLEASE get something straight?!?!

Communism: One state entity controls all allocation of goods and services, supervises virtually all matters of policy and regulation, and has total authority over its people.

Socialism: A completely equal, egalitarian state in which no government is needed because the people coexist and allocate goods and services. All resources are shared among community members; to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities.

It is important to note that no socialist country has ever existed on this planet-- small communes are the closest approximation thereof. It is my belief that socialism, like true direct-voter democracy, only works in theory and has no practicality beyond that theory.

Please learn the definitions of terms before you use those terms to denounce others. If you are going to say that Democrats want socialism, please realize you are really saying they want no government. You probably mean Communism. And if you say Republicans are Nazis, please realize you are accusing them of emulating the National Socialist Party of Germany, also a group which advocated the supremacy of certain races, and that this comparison is probably not fair.

Thank you.

Sigmund 8 years, 9 months ago

In order for the Government 'give' me something, they have to forcibly take it away from someone else or limit my freedom of choice, or both. If I am paying my own way they don't have take it away from someone else and I get the choice to pay for it myself. Do I want health care or a big screen TV? I choose and I live with the consequences.

Obama is right, there are somethings the government should provide, national defense is chief among those. In fact I might go so far to agree that those with the most to protect should pay at a higher rate (progressive tax rate) for their defense. However, should the government forcibly take the money of its citizens to pay for the education of non-citizens, or give us peace by taking away our free speech rights? Well that is where we might differ.

Recent history suggests that those governments that try to 'give' more than the citizens are able or willing to provide (ie communism/socialism) produce greater poverty for all (except for the politicians themselves). So which is more fair, or unfair if you like. Societies where everyone is equally poor and with little individual rights, or one's where some do better than others and individuals have greater freedoms in their life to make their own decisions and benefit or suffer from their choices?

letsgetwise 8 years, 9 months ago

And just because I've got thought with some of this issue...you are absolutely correct, the healthcare insurance in this country is outrageous! So...who do you think is causing this? The government? The insurance CEO? The doctor? You and me going for every sneeze that happens? Personally, I'm not sure about the government (but I know somebody else will be), but otherwise, I believe all of the above.

I also want to add a comment on the whole Gulf Coast issue...there is an organization called, I believe, the Grassroots Organization, started by a 28-year old woman that is organizing and getting help to people. I just saw this, this morning on TV, and was impressed. Volunteers get connected, and are going down and helping the regular people clean out their homes, repair and rebuild, just pretty much whatever it takes. There was a group of 10 Canadians that went down through this organization and was helping a 76-year old man repair and rebuild his home. The man had no insurance and didn't know what to do. This woman was pro-active and was asking people if they needed help. I was very impressed. Sidenote...the Canadians helped happily and worked very hard. They were appalled at all the people more concerned with Mardis Gras than being in the middle of all that mess and seeing the need to help.

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Godot and Jane--

You clearly analyzed Mr. Obama's statement to the Kansas Democrats. You picked out some tiny detail and have chosen to critize it. Yet, missing weapons of mass destruction...that HUGE lie that has cost us billions upon billions is just a fleeting tidbit of useless info. Not worth even commenting on.

You're blind to the forest...too many little trees.

Every man for him/herself...do Republicans truly embrace that philosophy? They do when it comes to aiding the poor, but do they when it comes to corporate America? Oh no. Just the other day, the CEO of Walmart, at the Governor's conferece, begged Governor's to subsidize worker's healthcare.

This is a $100 billion/year corporation that wants the GOVERNMENT to help pay for it's workers' healthcare. Walmart, with all its good intentions and warm and fuzzy commercials, just can't muster up the integrity to cut into some of those huge profits to help their employees insure their families. Now there's ownership for you!

Guess what social Darwinists, NO MAN IS AN ISLAND. You don't realize the many ways you are dependent upon others, and the government for the quality of life you enjoy.

Get real, wake up, stop deluding yourselves! And stop using terms like "socialist," "marxist," etc...Just like Reality Check says, it makes you look soooooo ignorant!

mefirst 8 years, 9 months ago

Jay Z--where has government controlled healthcare failed elsewhere? Examples please?

Are you implying that the U.S., the richest country on this planet cannot extend quality healthcare to every one of its citizens?

At the risk of being labeled a commie, socialist, marxist, tree-hugger, I'd just like to point out that even freakin' CUBA extends QUALITY healthcare to all its citizens. Cubans have an average life span that is longer than those of us here in the U.S. and Cuba's doctors are known for being highly qualified.

What are you afraid of? Why are you so petrified of a health care system...better yet, society that meets the basic needs of its people?

Here's an example...I'm currently pregnant. I've worked my whole life, been educated, served in the military, obeyed the laws of this society, but guess what...I will not be eligible for FMLA because my baby is due before my one year employment with this particular agency is up, so that means, not only do I risk losing my job by having these babies and taking time off to care for them, I'll also have to pay the full insurance premium...my employer won't continue to subsidize my insurance. So, I'll be without pay and having to pay a MUCH higher insurance premium--because I'm having a baby.

A couple months after the baby is born, my family will be moving. I'll be elibigle for COBRA, which is my current insurance for 18 months after I depart my agency. So, I'll have insurance coverage, but to cover my husband and baby, it'll cost me $670/month. What kind of "benefit" is that?

And I thought Kansas was "pro-family." Uh, okay...

bankboy119 8 years, 9 months ago

Da if you're going to argue please use valid arguments.. "President bush siphoned money (and my friends as well, how many of you posting are of draft age as well?) into Iraq for his personal war thus leaving our national security up in the air." Please honey do some research. The governor of LA said the levees were fine and intact on Aug. 29, the day the storm hit. I don't know where you get off trying to say that the money would go to a better levee system, it should have been fixed 60 yrs ago but nobody, especially the government in LA, wanted to pony(is it pony or ponie?) up the money for it. Don't try and blame Bush for all the problems.

R_C I really think you do need a reality check. "The reason they don't believe that government has a role in solving national problems is because they think government is the problem," Obama said... Government is the problem. If you look at all the failed government programs out there you could see clearly. Obama is advocating for more government, leaning towards a socialistic government. He wants state owned property. He wants people to rely more and more on the government. I think you need to go back to your politics class buddy.

"I am from Illinois. Obama embraces the failed notion of Marxist socialism. I'll take the ownership society over that any day." Marx wanted the government to provide everything. It sure worked out great for the Soviet Union didn't it? It's working great for Cuba right now isn't it? Don't try and get all technical and say well Cuba's actually Communist, the two are so close together it's frightening. Obama wants people to rely on the government for healthcare? Again, look at Cuba's example. The healthcare down there is wonderful isn't it? That's why all the doctors came to the US when Castro took over and the doctors they have now don't have a quality education. Look at England, the wait times are horrendous and the treatment is not as good as you get here. France? The company(State) is going bankrupt because it cannot afford the benefits it's providing to its people. Why Obama does want America to do is follow in their footsteps? They've all proven the system fails. He wants America to follow their footsteps because it sounds good to the people. If you want to see America go down the tubes even faster elect this guy. The system will be bankrupted even faster than the idiots in Congress are making it right now.

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