Archive for Tuesday, June 20, 2006

Reading the Bible in six days

June 20, 2006

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Lawrence resident Eleanor Symons, right, leads a reading through the book of Exodus as Barbara Wasson follows along during a Bible reading Monday afternoon at Signs of Life, the art gallery and bookstore at 722 Mass. Signs of Life is sponsoring the reading, which began at 7 a.m. Monday and will continue through Saturday until the entire Bible has been read.

Lawrence resident Eleanor Symons, right, leads a reading through the book of Exodus as Barbara Wasson follows along during a Bible reading Monday afternoon at Signs of Life, the art gallery and bookstore at 722 Mass. Signs of Life is sponsoring the reading, which began at 7 a.m. Monday and will continue through Saturday until the entire Bible has been read.

Lawrence resident Eleanor Symons leads a reading through the book of Exodus as Barbara Wasson follows along during a Bible reading Monday afternoon at Signs of Life, the art gallery and bookstore at 722 Mass. Signs of Life is sponsoring the reading, which began at 7 a.m. Monday and will continue through Saturday until the entire Bible has been read.

Reading the Bible

A group of volunteers are reading the Bible from cover to cover this week (June 19-24, 2006) at Signs of Life in downtown Lawrence. Enlarge video

Comments

craigers 9 years, 1 month ago

Thanks xeno, you are a dark hole in which only Jesus could bring light.

audvisartist 9 years, 1 month ago

xenophonschild... you sure do speak with a lot of authority! Are you 100% able to back up your claims?

Jayhawk226 9 years, 1 month ago

Looks like a Kansas State Board of Education meeting in action...

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 1 month ago

I took my meds this morning, and have the clarity of thought to make the decision to not post on this story today. It's already getting ugly.

Linda Endicott 9 years, 1 month ago

How much do you get from the bible anyway, if you're using the Evelyn Woods speed-reading course?

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

Audvisartist - it seems to me that the burden of proof should be on you. You can't prove anything about Jesus - even the fact that he existed is questionable.

Jamesaust 9 years, 1 month ago

Since the world was created in six days, it seems appropriate to take six days to read about it. Just don't make me read Deuteronomy.

hobb2264 9 years, 1 month ago

Questionable to whom? There is plenty of secular information about a man named Jesus who existed at that time and is eerily similar to the man represented in the Bible. I won't even cut and paste references...I assume you are smart enough to use google.

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

I assuming you are referring to the Jewish historian Josephus who writings were altered by Christians to add Jesus in to make it appear that there is proof that he lived.

Live in your sick fantasy world if you want to dude. The world would be better off without the false religion of Christianity. False because Xeno is right. If he did live, he wasn't the son of god and he died and the resurrection is a fairy tale.

Goodbye.

hobb2264 9 years, 1 month ago

Using your logic moose, you really can't prove anything about someone that lived and died before you began to exist.

Can you prove to me that Christopher Columbus existed?

Sigmund 9 years, 1 month ago

The singular thing that I have notice about religion and Christianity within current American Society is that virtually any religion and its adherents, except Christianity and Christians, is tolerated. Say anything bad about Islam and your a hatemonger, yet the most vile attackes against Christianity is considered enlightened, tolerated, and even encouraged. It makes me wonder more about the fanatical anti-Christians than about Christians.

kmat 9 years, 1 month ago

Sigmund - Christians are tollerated in America. They are the majority. Those of us that aren't Christians just get sick of having your religion shoved down our throats. I respect your beliefs, but Christians need to respect mine and other people's beliefs as well.

You may feel that Christianity is being attacked, but that's only because you listen to the small minority of Christian fanatics that proclaim that everyone is against Christians.

Simple rule to live by - you have your faith and follow it, and I'll have mine. You don't need to preach to non-Christians and I won't preach my beliefs to you. Respect my faith, I will respect yours.

Quotes to show why you should wonder more about fanatical Christians.

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good. Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
- Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue quoted in The News-Sentinel, 8-16-93

"It was Christians, you know, not pagans, who were responsible for the Holocaust. It was Christians, not pagans, who lynched people here in the South, who burned people at the stake, frequently in the name of this Jesus Christ"
- Archbishop Desmond Tutu, U.S. Conference for the World Council of Churches, 2000

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.... We need believing people. - Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."
- George Bush

"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
- Rev. Jerry Falwell

"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them." Pat Robertson

kmat 9 years, 1 month ago

If you are unable to respect people with different beliefs than your own, then that only shows the kind of person you are. I was brought up to believe that Jesus represented love of all living creatures. Your post doesn't sound like you follow the true word of Jesus.

Those quotes weren't taken out of context. They clearly speak for themselves.

My favorite quote - since you had to throw in that unbelievers might yet be saved from their fate.

"Wash out this tired notion That the best is yet to come But while you're dancing on the ground Don't think of when you're gone" DMB

Focus on loving those around you, not mearly tolerating them because they believe differently than you. We are not to judge others. Focus on life, not what could be when you die.

opinion 9 years, 1 month ago

"Focus on loving those around you, not mearly tolerating them because they believe differently than you. We are not to judge others. Focus on life, not what could be when you die."

Sounds like you are forcing your beliefs.

Redzilla 9 years, 1 month ago

Okay, funny story. I clicked on the story, not because I wanted to be part of a heated debate on the historical accuracy of biblical texts, but because I thought it sounded like a fascinating concept. As an atheist, I still absolutely dig the Bible and its many disregarded historical appurtenances. The Bible is like a giant, multi-cultural, multi-century- long pass-along-book, where each subsequent reader gets to edit and add to the story he or she receives. Plus, I love the thought of sitting around an art gallery listening to some very demur looking middle-aged woman read about Lot's daughters seducing him, or some of the very cinematic, Tarrantino-esque slaughter and gore, or the frighteningly stern strictures of Deuteronomy & Leviticus. That's art! Fabbo!

Althea Schnacke 9 years, 1 month ago

Redzilla-Thanks.

Really, it is a cool thing to do, regardless of your religion. The Raven hosts a "Ulysses" marathon every once in a while, and no one throws a fit because it's unreadable blank verse with a fair amount of sexual content. Hmm, maybe we should start a new religion off "Ulysses". Both it and the Bible are nearly impossible to understand, involve a lot of people wandering around, sexual content, and have been protested by just about every group imaginable.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

kmat:

Good posts. Rational and objective, with the essence of true Christian ethics.

A major contemporary problem with Christianity is its apocalytpic imagery, which, as the war on terrorism threatens to become a "war of religion," is a godsend for the warmongers in the Republican administration. They want to - or at least, did initially want to - transform the Muslim world and acquire strategic control over Southwest Asia while enhancing Israel's security situation. The neocons manipulate the Christian devout who revere Israel, have little concern for Arabs' rights, and think Islam is a teaching of Satan.

Another closely-related problem is that too many Christians believe in biblical prophecy - which is a cousin of Zoroastrian and Buddist and other prophecies, and harbinger of prophetic writings from Mani to Nostradmanus to Jeanne Dixon - and that it rests on the assumption that the future is pre-determined, as part of God's plan, and can be foretold by those whom God decides shall do so.

All the old sky-god religions are false, and need to be retired. Abraham was a Mesopotamian shepherd; he did not make an exclusive contract for his people with God. Jesus was an illegitimate Galilean peasant who managed to get himself executed two thousand years ago; he was not God, or the son of God. Mohammed was an ignorant Bedouin camel drover; he was not the Messenger of God.

All religions rest on basically the same social structures, and fill basically the same social needs. Human communities existed on this planet much longer than eight or ten thousand years ago, long before Ur and Abraham, Israel and Jesus, Arabia and Mohammed. Human communities created their own gods and creation myths long before our present sky-god religions came into being.

What you need to ask yourself is: "If I was born ten thousand years ago on the steppes of what is now Russia, or on a hillside in the Yucatan peninsula, or on the island that is now Ireland, what god would I have worshipped? And, would I have given the god(s) of my community (tribe, clan, group, etc) the same degree of devotion I give today to Jesus and Christianity, or to Judiasm, or to Allah and Islam?

mert1717 9 years, 1 month ago

You know I respect if you have made the choice not to follow Christ. But why should I tolorate you putting down my belief with attack like statements.

People will always defend what they love.

This article was about a simple attempt done by people to show that they love the bible and wanted to find a way to share it with others. If you don't belive in the bible or God then just go quietly without slander, but don't throw out comments like this. IF you don't like what I am saying, think this.

Since the person who attacked my faith and beliefs has the right to say these things. I have the right to rebuttle it. I personally think it is awesome to see this happening in our community.

ljlook 9 years, 1 month ago

Thanks LJWORLD for letting people spew prejudice against Christianity, and say anything they feel they should be allowed to say. If I was bashing gays, blacks, immigrants, ISLAM/Muslims, democrats, pot smokers, hippies, etc. I would have my comments pulled immediately. GREAT JOB keeping neutral.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

All the old sky-god religions are more trouble than they're worth; Christianity in our society is a menace.

Christians are like cancer cells. They are benign, without danger, when they focus on Christian ethics and all that is wonderful about loving and being responsible for other people.

But Christians are malignant when they use their faith to intrude in public policy, when they transgress against the barrier between church and state, when they seek to realize the prophecies in their bible (Revelation), even if their efforts are inimical to the best interests of America and our people.

That is why Christians must be opposed, why they must be encouraged to find a quiet spot and wait for their dead Galilean to return without muddling in the secular affairs of our nation.

kmat 9 years, 1 month ago

Posted by opinion (anonymous) on June 20, 2006 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Focus on loving those around you, not mearly tolerating them because they believe differently than you. We are not to judge others. Focus on life, not what could be when you die."

Sounds like you are forcing your beliefs.

I'm not forcing any beliefs. Those are simple statements that anyone that claims to be a Christian should live by. I know, it's terrible to think that everyone should love one another. Do you think Jesus was wrong about that one? The holy book says we are not to judge others. Do you claim that is untrue? Is it a bad thing to focus on life and loving and taking care of all while we're on this short ride?

You people just kill me. I was brought up in a very strict Christian home. Sundays were for reading the bible. Unlike many of you, I can say I have read it front to back 4 times since high school. My father was a deacon in the church, my mom the secretary and Sunday school teacher. The most important thing they taught me - to think for myself and remember that the bible is a grouping of many old stories. It is not the final word, but instead is there to teach us the ways we should live our lives. Jesus taught love. If you can't accept and love all those around you - even those that believe in a different religion than you - then you aren't following the teachings of Jesus.

Our SOUL purpose is love.

I'm not going to bother arguing with those of you that think you know all because you are Christians. Maybe someday you will be more accepting of those around you with different beliefs. I would highly recommend you go back and read your good book again though.

ljlook 9 years, 1 month ago

Hey Kmat,

It's one thing to read the Bible "front to back 4 times since high school". It's another thing to understand what you read.

Too bad nothing sank in.

DenverBuzz 9 years, 1 month ago

Read the Bible. Just don't try to understand it.

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

Sheesh! People reading the bible and not believing it!! What next? People believing that dinosaurs really existed?

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Leviticus - now that's a book of the bible that should "sink in," particularly the passage inre a wife is encouraged to assault the genitals of any man attacking her husband.

ljlook:

If you were born ten thousand years ago (pick a spot on the globe) what god(s) would you have worshipped?

Kind of puts your religion in perspective, yes?

1957 9 years, 1 month ago

The wild accusations and plain falsehoods with no evidence that are thrown around above are amazing. If you don't want to believe that Jesus is alive and want to believe that the Bible is a bunch of stories and his followers are nuts that is your business, but really, you are going to have to do a lot better than...

"Audvisartist - it seems to me that the burden of proof should be on you. You can't prove anything about Jesus - even the fact that he existed is questionable."

In fact, there are Greek, Roman and Jewish documents that inform us about Jesus, not just Josephus.

More...

"I assuming you are referring to the Jewish historian Josephus who writings were altered by Christians to add Jesus in to make it appear that there is proof that he lived."

The only disputed part of Josephus is the part that mentions Jesus' resurrection. The rest of his testimony about Jesus in not in dispute. Do you suppose Christians went around altering all the ancient documents that concern Jesus? Talk about blind faith, I would like some proof.

I am also sure the earliest Christians including the apostles, were willing to die horrible deaths for a "questionable" existence.

As for kmat's long list of nutcase quotes, please judge Jesus on his words and actions, not some list of followers who get it wrong. They certainly mar the face of Christ, but judge him on his own merits and you will find that he is very different than these quotes suggest.

Also...

"The Bible is like a giant, multi-cultural, multi-century- long pass-along-book, where each subsequent reader gets to edit and add to the story he or she receives."

Please people, do some research before you swallow at face value this type of unsubstantiated nonsense.

There are over 5,000 manuscripts from ancient times and they agree in about 99% of their content. Most descipances are on punctuations. There is no evidence that the Bible has been edited by any and everyone who wants to make changes. We have basically the same scripture as it was originally written.

I could go on and on and on.

The bottom line is, accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus but don't do it based on these false arguments. Take it or leave it on it's own merits.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

"The Gospel of Jesus" maybe would be acceptable, but Christianity was created by Paul, a misogynist/pedophile who put his own cold, somber stamp on the new religion.

If Jesus actually could come back to life and see what has been done in his name, he would be shocked and bewildered. Also, Jesus was a Jew. He preached to Jews, for Jews. Period. This nonsense about Samaritans and non-Jews came about only after most Jews steadfastly refused to accept Paul's new religion, and early Christian preachers were required to fashion their message to pagans.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

.22 short:

"Natural physical laws are inviolate in the universe, and cannot be abrogated." - Albert Einstein.

hobb2264 9 years, 1 month ago

xeno's comments,

"Christians are like cancer cells."

"Christianity in our society is a menace."

"That is why Christians must be opposed..."

Who is the fanatic here? Why aren't you jumping all over him kmat? What kind of love is xeno showing for his fellow humans?

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

Posted by 75x55 (anonymous) on June 20, 2006 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

'Whoever will cause one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if he was thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around his neck'. Mark 9:42

That sure is one Loving God you have there!! I think I'll stick to my wicca/pagan beliefs thank you!

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Jesus is dead. He wasn't god when he was alive. He's never coming back. The bible is a gaggle of Jewish drivel.

Just cleaned up two thousand years of cultural junk. Enjoy.

ljlook 9 years, 1 month ago

Attention scared Christian haters:

Get a life.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Christianity is dead. Another century or two and it will disappear . . . like so many supernatural-based religions before it.

Arminianus got smacked so hard on another thread he's trying to see what lies he can propagate here. Liar.

hobb2264 9 years, 1 month ago

"Christianity is dead. Another century or two and it will disappear . . . like so many supernatural-based religions before it."

Sounds like the same message that has been preached since Christianity began. Keep dreaming....

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

ya!! God loves you so you better do what his sanctimonious followers say or else. Get a life! Keep dreaming! Go to hell!

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Happy One: Let me take your argument to the full conclusion. To harm a little one, a child, is said to be an abomination. So by using this verse as a basis of judging God's rules as unjust, I can only conclude that you think that society's punishment of pediphiles or those that harm children to be unjust or lack of love.

hobb2264 9 years, 1 month ago

"ya!! God loves you so you better do what his sanctimonious followers say or else. Get a life! Keep dreaming! Go to hell!"

More love and goodwill...keep it coming...

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

As often happens misunderstandings run rampant on this board..I was not, as JackKats put it, saying that children should be harmed...I was pointing out that the "All Loving God" that christians profess to believe in is a hypocrite it his truest form......If he truely loves you why does he need to punish in such EVIL ways???

kmat 9 years, 1 month ago

All of you people kill me.

The comment about the bible not sinking in each time I read it. You are so wrong. I am just educated and study history as well as the "stories" of the bible. God gave me a brain and I use it.

Remember that your beliefs are faith, not fact. I haven't told anyone they were an idiot for being Christian. I've only pointed out that many Christians think everyone should believe as they do. If you feel that way, get the heck out of America. You can believe what you want and I can believe what I want. I haven't put anyone down, except for religious zealots that think Christians are under attack.

These posts show how crazy people in KS are. I've lived in many states and many countries, and KS is definately the most messed up place I've been.

Most of you on this post make me want to scream. Time for a good old shot of Jack to kill the pain of living in KS with religious zealots. Keep on judging us, because if the bible is correct you will get yours in the end.

I think many of you need to study the Koran to learn the true teachings of Jesus. I'm sure most of you have never bothered to pick up the holy books from any other religions, so let me fill you in. Jesus is a major prophet in the Koran, and it's teachings are more thorough than the new testament. Enlighten yourselves and learn about other beliefs and other cultures, then take a good look at yourself, if you can get past those blinders you're wearing.

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

an excellent example:

God good to all, or just a few? PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

For more:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#introduction

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Cause and effect are drawn out. We are told what to expect from certain behavior. Man does the same thing. Smoking is bad and will cause cancer. So when someone gets cancer from smoking should it be a suprise. So since we draw the cause and effect from the Bible as true, we can structure our life from the warnings. It takes history, past and future, into account and tells us what is what. Is this a bad thing? So where is this different then what we see man does with warnings on smoking.

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

The link above also has a lot of other scripture references where the bible contradicts itself.

How can you believe in something that doesn't even know what its trying to tell you?!?

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Let us explore the hypocrisy of evolution: Make no judgements or take into account what the science (so called ) teaches. If you really believe in evolution then why would man make drugs, manipulation of genes and interfer what is an apparent perfect process? Does this ring of hypocrisy in science? What effect will this alteration do in a million years according to your beliefs an view on the world?

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

I can not post what I think should be done with those that hurt children because I would be banned from LJW for sure!! I was not saying that I personally thought that the offense go unpunished merely that it contradicts itself.

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Let us explore the hypocrisy of our education. We teach evolution as that of natural selection based on the stronger characteristics of off-sping becoming the traits that thrust a species forward onward and upward. How then can the education system condone homosexual as a something fine and Ok? Is this behavior that will spring forth offspring with this trait. In conclusion, based on evolution, it must be an un-natural act. Let us explore hypocrisy more.

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

No but along those thoughts homosexuallity will not last long so don't worry about it

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Happy one: You are a hypocrite by what you state. You say God is unjust and unloving in judging harming children but you say you don't tolerate it either. How can God be evil in judgement and you not be evil in judging. Let you be judged by your own mouth.

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Happy One - We are exploring hypocrisy. Keep on the subject.

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

JackKats perhaps you need to go back and reread what has been posted the scripture that you keep refering back to was originally posted by 75X55 The point I was making was that, as the christians believe, they have an all loving God. Yet he still punishes in what could be construed as evil ways (although for clarification I do not think children should ever be hurt EVER!!). Please also tell me where I judged someone? I did say "I can not post what I think should be done with those that hurt children because I would be banned from LJW for sure!!" This was not judging anyone.

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Happy One- your comment suggest that you would do something to them. This is judgement. And judgement is not an evil thing when it is based on truth.But since you stated God's judgement of this is evil therefor you admit your judgement is evil. Hypocrisy on your part. Is it wrong that light banishes darkness when it is present? Then why would perfection not banish that which is not perfect. The bible reveals those things which are not acceptable and states the end of those actions. How is this evil? I only asked how is it as a society that judgement keeps order and with God it is not acceptable? Then the Bible goes on to tell us that we are not perfect and in jepordy of being banned from God's presence. Thus Jesus, died for us in our steed. This was judgement on us vicariously.

happyone 9 years, 1 month ago

You are judging me then as well, which in turn makes you a hypocrite as well

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

I can't wait for the return of Jesus when he kicks the butt of the unbelievers!!!

Cuz theres nothing God enjoys more than a good butt kicking!!!

"and God kicked their butt and it was good, very good. Then the archangel Michael blew his trumpet and said "You may now kiss his holy butt forever, and ever. amen"

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Happy One, I have made it home now. My assertion is that you said that God was a hypocrite by judgeing. I merely pointed out to you that by your own assertions that your same judgement was by your own words, evil. I also want to point out that the intial assertion of God being a hypocrite is also present in you. How is my exposing your words judgement? I have neither said that judgement based in truth was evil nor assert that my pointing out your own words as contradicting is judgement. Merely attesting to the facts you present from your own words.

JackKats 9 years, 1 month ago

Too much fun. There are so many things people state from the Bible that are taken out of context or from "what they heard". Thus the confusion exist. An eye for an eye verse is always so mis-understood. This was a law that was in place stating a false accuser would receive the same punishment as that which would have happened to the one he was accusing had it been true. This was put in place to keep those accusations from becoming common place. Can you imagine what that law would do in our society? I think it would be a good one. But people always take that verse as being a reason for retribution. This is where ignorance of the Scriptures is more dangerous then the belief in them and what they tesitfy. Ignorance is much more dangerous. Thus the reading of the scriptures is a good thing. Read Ezra and see what they did. The public reading is merely an action that has Biblical roots. People practicing their faith.

hottruckinmama 9 years, 1 month ago

Heads up to anyone arguing with Happyone once she gets something in her head she won't back down even when she is WRONG which is most of the time. All would be better off to IGNORE her!! Not to mention the fact that she is just an airhead housewife. Paybacks are h*ll sweety.

usaschools 9 years, 1 month ago

KMAT, Which George Bush made the quote you posted earlier today? Sr. or W?

Thanks.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Jesus is dead. He wasn't god when he was alive. Christianity is a hodge-podge byproduct of the old pagan religions that used to squat around the Mediterreanean. Paul, a mysogynist/pedophile, did more to actually create and form Christianity than Jesus ever did or intended.

Some of you people are too dumb to breathe air. Why do you give your loyalty to a superstitious, supernatural-based religion that is rife with errors, inconsistencies, and outright lies?

Rest assured, we (secular humanists) will both outlast and triumph over you and your kind.

sanctuary 9 years, 1 month ago

Why is it that every time anything is published about Christianity, irrational people break their necks rushing to post negative comments? It drives me crazy that people do that. Since belief or lack thereof is what people want to talk about today, let me state that I am a Christian. I believe in God; I know that he tries to guide me, and that the mistakes I make in my life are the result of my disobedience. Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world; he died to save all of us from our sins; and "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED. It's that simple. To me, this is an undeniable fact. And maybe some of you have heard this before, but would you rather believe now, die, and (according to some) not know that you were wrong because you won't know anything else because there will be nothing, or would you like to be a firm disbeliever, die, end up in hell, and find out you were wrong? You'll have eternity to think about that.

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

Well if you choose to believe the absurdities required by Christianity - Jesus, born of a virgin, died for our sins, resurrected bodily after 3 days - that's your choice.

But I think the person that chooses to believe that a reptile race from outer space secretly rules our earth and your milk comes from cats deserves as much (or little) respect as a Christian does.

How can you expect anything but ridicule?

Doesn't the New Testament say that signs and wonders will follow Christ's followers?

Where are they?

Absurd myths.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

sanctuary:

You're a good little puppy. "the mistakes I make in life are a result of my disobedience."

They really have done a fine job on you. Molded, massaged . . . brainwashed.

There is no heaven, no hell, no soul, no final judgement, no afterlife, no Satan, no angels, no purgatory, and no Jesus on a white cloud.

I hope you live long enough to get smart enough to see how they've cheated you out of focusing on life in the here and now.

Jesus is dead. He wasn't god when he was alive. And he's never coming back.

justsomewench 9 years, 1 month ago

think they've made it past all the begattin' yet?

Lepanto1571 9 years, 1 month ago

xeno: "Rest assured, we (secular humanists) will both outlast and triumph over you and your kind."

It's possible of course, but only through the tyranny of State machinery.

BTW,

Birthrates amongst those who embrace the "enlightenment" of your sect here in the West are not even at replacement levels. Being that secular humanists jump on life-ending "lifestyles" like drunken prom queens on their dates, I'd say you either don't know what you are talking about or are suffering under the crushing delusional fundamentalism associated with your sect.

It is the utilitarianism and selfishness of secular humanism (which actually abhors humans, especially the most vulnerable among us) that will ensure its destruction.

Devout Christian families still adore children and actually have them. Contrary to what you say, it is they who have a future.

For a brief look at the unholy creeds of the secular humanist those interested should read: "The Eugenics Manifesto, "The Humanist Manifesto," (1 and 2) "The Humanist Curriculum," or the horrific dribble of the likes of Maggie Sanger, Dr. Sidney Simon, John Dunphy, John Dewey, Roxanne Dunbar, and Peter Singer.

A couple of snippets of the "glory" of secular "humanism":

"It's OK to lie. It's OK to steal. It's OK to have premarital sex. It's OK to cheat or to kill if these things are part of your value system, and you clarified these values for yourself. The important thing is not what values you choose, but that you have chosen them for yourself and without coercion of parents, spouse, priest, friends, ministers or social pressure of any kind."-- Humanist Curriculum

OR:

":a right to birth control, abortion and divorce."

"The many varieties of sexual behavior should not in themselves be considered 'evil.'"

"[Freedom] 'includes a recognition of an individual's rights to die in dignity, euthanasia and the right to suicide.'" Quoted from: The Humanist Manifesto II, 1973

Sounds to me like your wishful thinking is in vain embracing alternative creeds such as this xeno. You really should be truthful as you attempt to evangelize new disciples into your newfound faith xeno, and call it what it is:

"Secular Anti-Humanism"

strateup 9 years, 1 month ago

This is amazing. Out of curiousity what exactly do you non-believers base your morals on?

mooseamoose 9 years, 1 month ago

I encourage all you true believers to be DOERS of the word

"and they shall pick up snakes with their hands, and when they drink deadly poison it shall not hurt them at all..."

Mark 16:18

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Lepanto 1571 & .22 short:

Paid any priests to say prayers for your soul after you die?

Societies evolve: you and your kind have not. You still cling to outmoded morals and thinking. Do you really believe that secular humanists don't love, and have, children?

We don't need religion: we have the law. We don't need priests or religious fruitcakes: for better or worse, we have lawyers. Religion had an important role in forming our laws, but religion's day is past, as is yours.

Go find a quiet corner and go wait patiently for your dead Galilean to return.

dizzy_from_your_spin 9 years, 1 month ago

The anti-God, Christian-hating cabal certainly is a tolerant bunch, aren't they? And coming all unglued because some nice ladies want to read the Bible! God bless them anyway!

Lepanto1571 9 years, 1 month ago

Xenophon,

Not an answer. Just ad-hominems and noise.

I'll warrant you've taken a look at the aforementioned list of "enlightened" humanist and their manifestos and wish to distance yourself from them. Can't say that I blame you.

Your preaching skills need a bit more honing xeno if you wish to gain any more disciples for your secular (s)creed.

It's not that I don't believe what you post, you're just not convincing.

After all it is quite a challenge of preaching to proselytize this new faith of yours; one whose base ASSumption is that the universe brought itself into existence and all matter just (poof) self-generated!

It would seem you have substituted one "myth" for an even more absurd one. But hey, look on the bright side, there aren't any of those pesky ethics to get in the way.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 1 month ago

Sanctuary, thanks for posting, now take a breath and relax, its okay.
much if not all of the sound and fury (signifying nothing) on here by those who are antidemocratic (xenophile), intensely antichristian (xenophile, mousey, et al), actually shows they're putting a huge emotional effort into denying the faith. this suggests they are having a reaction formation against believing; in other words, the faith is hitting them in the head and they strike out because they don't like it.
thanks for posting Sanctuary. antichristian bias, demonstrating that there is huge intolerance directed at us, is well demonstrated on this board today!


lepanto is right, birth rates, RE the myth of natural selection, much much higher among the Christians in America than the people represented by Xenophile and mousey.


by the way hypocrisy: did you know the original outline of evolution, when applied to humankind, was intensely racist. now, through one of the huge number of revisions of evolutionary theory, these thinkers try to change it, but it is at heart intensely racist, identifying racial differences among humans as evolutionary advantages and disadvantages. most of us who call ourselves Christian know that we all derived from the same two people so racism is kinda stupid.


every time you read the bong smoker Xenophile's noise, take it as frantic strivings against the certain. don't get too worked up over it. he lives in a very bad fantasy world.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

I'm not looking for disciples - the ranks of secular humanism are swelling from the children of Christians who do not, cannot live up to the canons of their faith. . . and by intelligent people who choose not to believe in the egregrious stupidities you and your kind grovel in.

bearded_gnome: That's the problem with you Christian lollipops: you're not well-read, not liberally educated enough. The human race did not issue from two people (incest, anyone?) but from a group as large as 2,000 in North Africa 200,000 years ago. Go to the LPL and read back issues of "Discover."

I live in a quiet, elegant world of truth and reason, without the disquiet and tumult of religious nonsense. I, and many others, would like to offer our world to others, but, then, it may be something you have to achieve yourself, after you become strong enough, smart enough, to divest yourself of the detritus of two thousand years of religious nonsense.

You and Lepanto run along, be good boys and pay a priest to say prayers for your souls in purgatory after you die.

craigers 9 years, 1 month ago

God is love, just as parents love their kids, but they need to be corrected/disciplined at times. For those that live their lives in complete disdain for God and continue to live in sin will get the rewards for a life of sin. That my friends is called a Just God, which is another characteristic that Christian haters don't like to hear. They don't like to hear that God will even the scales out, but since the discipline isn't immediate like we want everything else in this life, they think it won't happen. What will happen is what they call.... a rude awakening.

xeno, as much as you hate us the fact is that we pray for you to be enlightened. The fact is that Jesus did exist and is still alive. I know Him and He knows me. In fact I, my pastor, and whole congregation prays to Him and low and behold He answers us. Miracles like people getting rid of canes, crutches, built-up shoes on the spot have occurred instantaneously proving that our "loving" God is real and more powerful than our natural laws. No amount of educating can take away from the personal experience of seeing God's power work in true life. Don't worry about a rebuttal because I won't post again on this story.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

I would have answered sooner, but it took a while to quit laughing.

Are you for real? "I, my pastor, and the whole congregation prays to Him, and low (sic) and behold He answers us. Miracles like people getting rid of canes, crutches . . . etc."

Jesus is dead. He was not god when he was alive. He does not "answer" prayers. People in airplane crashes, who take a minute or so to fall five miles to the ground, pray more fervently than any of you can imagine, but the plane still hits the ground, and they are all still splattered to jelly.

The abstraction which is God makes It's will manifest through the operation of natural physical laws, which are inviolate in the universe and cannot be abrogated by the mere will of a man.

Christianity is a man-created religion; it was created by men . . . not by God.

When it comes time for you to die, I sincerely hope you don't spend your last moments of cogent consciousness wondering if you've spent your entire life believing in a cultural fairy tale. Were I a better person, I'd feel sorry for you, and all like you.

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

So, xeno, what do you plan on spending your last moments wondering about?

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

"The human race did not issue from two people (incest, anyone?) but from a group as large as 2,000 in North Africa 200,000 years ago."

And, pray tell, where did those 2,000 come from?

"Religion had an important role in forming our laws, but religion's day is past, as is yours."

"I live in a quiet, elegant world of truth and reason,"

During the Dark Ages, France banned the Bible and religion. For about three and a half years, they paraded around with the god of "truth and reason". Then suddenly, they decided it wasn't such a good idea and decided to tolerate religion. Why, do you suppose, after getting rid of all these "fairy tales", they allowed them to come back?

Seems a little odd move on their part, don't you think?

Lepanto1571 9 years, 1 month ago

xenophon: "I'm not looking for disciples..."

Not true, you have said otherwise. You hope to steer Christians toward the path of "enlightenment" freeing them from the shackles of YHWH, of course, only to lead them toward enslavement by a new, "better" god.

Xenophon: "I live in a quiet, elegant world of truth and reason, without the disquiet and tumult of religious nonsense."

Hmmm, I wouldn't want the 45 million dead innocents killed since 1973 in the name of "enlightenment" and "liberty" espoused by the supposed "humanists" of secularism to burden your quiet, elegant world of "truth."

Oh, not to mention the 100 million + killed in the name of the almighty secular god (known as the State) in the 20th century. The blood guilt associated with your religion, which hides behind the seemingly benign platitude of "humanism," would be quite a burden to bear.

Barbs about priests won't change the unfathomable fact that you have substituted the collar for black-robed high priests that rule killing babies is an exercise in "freedom" and destroying the vulnerable in hospital beds is "merciful."

Keep drinking the Kool Aid Xenophon, other wise you'll begin to see your newfound faith for the monster it is.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Ah, the fruitcakes have arisen!

gr: Evolution. The human race evolved from primates.

What will I be thinking about when I die? Hopefully, beautiful young women . . . and Mozart.

Lepanto: What I said before stands. Civilizations and societies evolve; you and your kind have not. You still cling to an outdated morality that has only a limited place in our ever-changing social climate.

Women have the right to choose whether or not to have a child.

You and your ilk may label secular humanism as you choose, but we're not "monsters." We revere truth and reason, and we have the courage to face both, no matter what the consequences, while you and your ilk need the mother's milk of religion to comfort your fear of death and annihilation.

Truly, you are alive, but, as long as you believe in your religious nonsense, you might as well be dead. You believe in lies, in cultural fairy tales. Were I capable of it, I would pity you.

The best all of you can do is find a quiet corner - stay out of our schools and universities, stay out of public policy, stay out of local, state, and federal governments - and wait patiently for your dead Galilean to return.

And don't hold your breath.

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

xeno: "The human race evolved from primates."

Laughs aside, the serious part is, and where did they come from? Is it turtles all the way down? In other words, your claim that a whole race did not issue from two people, makes no sense at all. Besides anti-creation, it's anti-evolution. Ever hear of Darwin's finches? or rabbits? There's been plenty of scientific experiments where groups of decendents have started with two individuals.

Never heard your thoughts about why France allowed religion back in if they did so well in irradicating it.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

gr:

As much as I loathe having to waste time on nonsense, the French, like most other medieval societies, used religion, and the religious orders, to maintain social order. To keep the peasants in check. One thing about the French lower classes, they rebelled quite often, and quite violently.

If you're truly interested in French opinion of religion, read Voltaire. I dare you.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

gr:

BTW, evolution is fact, not theory. Humans evolved from primates, and all the way back to single-cell organisms in an amino-acid soup.

Don't take my word for it; read a high-school freshman's biology text.

chzypoof1 9 years, 1 month ago

XENO- just a few comments:

  1. Women do have the right to choose....TO NOT SPREAD THEIR LEGS. Abortion is murder.
  2. There's no proof that we evolved from primates. It's just a best guess
  3. As far as the "dead Galilean"...that's just not cool.
  4. I "might as well be dead" if I believe in something in my life? You might try it sometime...you obviously don't live for anything...you life must be awfully hollow.
  5. And as far as staying out of schools and govt....THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON RELIGION. We aren't going anywhere.

chzypoof1 9 years, 1 month ago

Just because they force kids to read the Biology books, doesn't mean it's fact. There is NO definitive evidence that evolution created humans. Where did the "soup" come from?

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

xeno,

"the French, like most other medieval societies"

Are you supposing to call the French, medieval? They currently allow religion, no? Why do you come down so hard on religion? You don't want to start a rebellion of the peasants, do you?

What does your conjecture, "evolution is fact", have to do with your other conjecture, that whole groups of individuals cannot come from two?

"BTW, evolution is fact, not theory. Humans evolved from primates, and all the way back to single-cell organisms in an amino-acid soup."

So all of life came from ONE organism?! But yet, it's impossible all of humans can't come from two?

freudian_slip 9 years, 1 month ago

How did humans evolve from primates yet there are still primates? Only the lucky ones got the promotion? Or were they the unlucky ones!?!

xenophonschild: your comments sound vaguely similar to what would come out of the mouth of one of my friends. Are you a crack-head ex-con too? The bitterness in your tone is earily like what I experienced in Lansing.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

freudian_slip:

Evolution is not a placid, regular process, but goes in spurts and increments.

I am an ex-con, and proudly so, but not a crack-head. I was in Lansing from '74 till '82. Escaped in '81; we took out the gun tower next to B cell house.

gr:

I'm a layman. Consult a biology textbook, or Discover magazine, or any current encyclopedia, even wikipedia. I don't get paid to teach lollipops basic science.

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

chzypoof1:

What, this thread's bringing out all the high-school dropouts and under-achievers?

Abortion is not murder. It is a constitutionally-protected right . . . and will remain so despite the best efforts of you nutcase religious fundies to undo secular legislation.

Human beings did evolve from primates. It's not a guess; it is established science. Call the anthropology department at KU, ask for someone who specializes in human anthropology, and then actually read what they recommend.

Jesus was an illegitimate Galilean peasant who had the misfortune to get himself executed two thousand years ago. He was not god, ever. He will never return.

If you are content to believe in fables, lies, cultural dreck and superstitious drivel, then that's on you. Many of us believe that our best chance to catch a glimpse of the true nature of God is to study the universe, the deeply subtle, sublime majesty of creation. My life is rich and deeply, deeply rewarding.

This country was not founded on religion. People came here to escape religious persecution, but our Founding Fathers were wise enough to insist on a clear separation of Church and State . . . which means you and your kind must, and will, stay out of our business and lives.

Anything else?

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

xeno: "I'm a layman. Consult a biology textbook, or Discover magazine, or any current encyclopedia, even wikipedia. I don't get paid to teach lollipops basic science."

A layman who is confronted in his own contradictions, and then attempts to make himself feel better by deferring to "experts".

"but our Founding Fathers were wise enough to insist on a clear separation of Church and State . . . which means you and your kind must, and will, stay out of our business and lives."

And how is someone reading the Bible in six days, interfering with your life?

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

I'm a secular zealot . . . and religions are anathema to me. Accepting the tenants of a religion is akin to voluntarily mutilating your body.

I have a responsibility to uphold the truth . . . and try to save you lollipops from your own credulity.

Give up religion . . . and worship Truth and Reason!

gr 9 years, 1 month ago

"Give up religion . . . and worship Truth and Reason!"

Again,

Are you supposing to call the French, medieval? They currently allow religion, no? Why do you come down so hard on religion? You don't want to start a rebellion of the peasants, do you?

xenophonschild 9 years, 1 month ago

Sadly, objectivity is lost on you two. One thing the Christian bible says is so very true: "We are not here all that long."

And you waste your time believing in fairy tales and dreck, when you could be out searching for the real God in the universe.

Understand mankind, understand yourself, and throw off the chains of superstitious credulity. You don't have unlimited time, either. You will age and die before you know it.

.22 short:

France has long been considered "The Daughter of the Church." Read Voltaire, and D'Alembert. And give up believing in superstitious nonsense. Jesus was just another poor wretch, like so many others before and since, trying to make something for himself out of his life.

He got caught up in circumstances beyond his control, and he died an awful death. But he was not God. That diseased vermin Paul created Christianity out of his own sick, twisted character . . . and stuck Western Europe with his ailments for two thousand years. Woman-hater. Just because he was disfigured, and women mocked and spurned him. Pervert. He loved boys, particularly young Timothy. Much of what is pathetic about the Church stems from his character flaws and foibles.

Enough! Throw off the chains of religion, and join the growing tide of secular humanism. The truth will set you free.

GovernorSwill 9 years, 1 month ago

Jesus, his teachings and philosophies have precious little to do with modern Christianity. Even the early churches depended on Paul's letters for direction, doctrine and practice. I dislike that his only surving words in the religion named for him are those few attributed in the four gospels. Moreover, these gospels have been repeatedly translated, sourced from non original and non contemporary texts written decades after his death and in languages he didn't speak. What did he actually say and teach is the true doubt of Christianity, not the existence of the man himself.

GovernorSwill 9 years, 1 month ago

" "Christianity is dead. Another century or two and it will disappear . . . like so many supernatural-based religions before it."

Sounds like the same message that has been preached since Christianity began. Keep dreaming.... "

Not unlike, "These are the end times, Jesus is coming and the rapture could happen any day."

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