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Archive for Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Conservatives may be tough to shake off

July 25, 2006

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Ordinarily, Chapman Rackaway, an assistant political science professor at Fort Hays State University, would peg incumbent State Board of Education member Connie Morris's chances for re-election somewhere between slim and none.

Morris, after all, saw fit to spend six nights at the ritzy Fontainbleau Hilton Resort in Miami Beach, billing taxpayers $339 a night - not to mention the $150 she spent on meals or the two taxi rides that cost $147.

The story made headlines across the state. And if that weren't enough, Morris has been at the forefront of a long list of controversies - evolution, sex education, vouchers - that have come to define the contentious schism between the board's six conservative and four moderate members.

Political logic says Morris, a conservative, should be in trouble - but that's a long way from saying she will lose in the Aug. 1 primary, Rackaway said.

"Driving around Hays, I see a lot of yard signs for Sally Cauble (Morris' primary opponent)," Rackaway said. "But that's not indicative of what's happening out in the smaller towns, like Quinter and Hoxie. You get out there and it's pretty much all Connie Morris."

The race is too close to call, he said Tuesday.

"Cauble is running a good, aggressive campaign," Rackaway said, "but an election like this tends to be a referendum on whether the incumbent has done a good enough job - and I'm not hearing people say 'Connie Morris has done a terrible job.'

"That makes me think (Morris) will win," he said.

Rackaway wasn't alone in his assessment:

¢ "I don't think the state school board race is causing a stir in Garden City - not yet, anyway," said Rick Atha, Garden City school superintendent.

¢ "Nobody's come up to me and asked, 'How should I vote?'" said Don Wells, school superintendent in Scott County. "People aren't talking about it."

¢ "People have other things on their minds - like the drought," said Lakin schools Supt. Randy Steinle.

Turnout is key

Morris isn't the only conservative board member standing strong in the face of moderate opposition.

"It's going to be tight," said Craig Grant. "Turnout is going to be key for us."

Grant is a Lawrence school board member who's been on salary with the Kansas Alliance for Education the past six months rallying moderate voters to turn out Morris and her conservative colleagues.

Grant said the alliance has sent "mailers" to registered Republicans in Morris' district. On Sunday, volunteers called 250 voters in the district. More calls and mailings are planned.

"We targeting Republicans who've voted in the general elections but for whatever reason, haven't voted in the primaries," he said. "Those are the people we're trying our best to get out."

Historically, conservative Republicans have fared better in low-turnout primaries than moderates.

In Wichita, Cindy Duckett is campaigning for the five conservatives on the Aug. 1 ballot.

"I don't think we're going to lose any seats," she said. "As we've seen before, I think conservative voters are motivated; moderates aren't."

And why is that?

"Where do conservatives gather?" Duckett said. "They gather in church. They meet, they talk, they get motivated. Now, where do moderates meet?"

She paused.

"That's just it," Duckett said. "They don't. They may go to church, but they're not motivated by church."

Moderates not out of it

Still, Grant said he remains "cautiously optimistic" about the primary chances of the five moderate candidates - four newcomers, one incumbent.

"If we can win three of the five races, we'll have a majority on the board," he said. "If we win two, it'll be tied, 5-5."

Currently, six of the 10 board members are conservatives. Three of the six are up for re-election; one, Iris Van Meter, rural Thayer, chose not to run again.

The western half of Douglas County is represented by Bill Wagnon, a moderate and Democrat from Topeka. He is not up for re-election.

The eastern half is represented by Janet Waugh, a moderate Democrat from Kansas City, Kan.

Waugh is opposed in the Democratic primary by Jesse Hall, an employee of the Kansas City, Mo., school district.

Hall, a former NBA referee, said he supports the state board's conservative agenda and has received financial backing from intelligent design proponents.

On evolution, he said: "The whole idea is to get kids to think outside the box, to be more creative in their thinking."

On opt-in sex education, he said: "I think parents should be more involved in school, I think they should have the final say."

The winner - Hall or Waugh - will be unopposed in the general election.

In the four other races, the winner of the Republican primary will face a Democratic challenger in the Nov. 7 general election.

"We get two shots at them," Grant said.

Comments

BrianR 8 years, 1 month ago

"- and I'm not hearing people say 'Connie Morris has done a terrible job.' "

It's inconceivable that the voters could be that F stupid. Morris is an embarrasment to education and to the State of Kansas.

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erichaar 8 years, 1 month ago

Is it just me or is the theme here "You're either a conservative wacko or a reasonable, even-minded, tolerant 'moderate?'"

That's the desired take-away every single time a journalist fails to accurately and consistently use the terms "conservative," "moderate," and "liberal."

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jhawk0097 8 years, 1 month ago

"Is it just me or is the theme here "You're either a conservative wacko or a reasonable, even-minded, tolerant 'moderate?'""

It's just you.

"The whole idea is to get kids to think outside the box, to be more creative in their thinking."

Ya, to use 17th century teleological reasoning in a 20th century science classroom. One giant step backwards. If intelligent design is such a plausible theory, why does it need the government to prop it up? Where's the evidence? There is none. God of the gaps BS.

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neopolss 8 years, 1 month ago

I would lose all faith in our system to see Connie Morris re-elected. She is a nasty, vile person who uses religion as her disguise to the masses. She, quite simply, is not a good person.

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cutny 8 years, 1 month ago

Didn't Connie Morris graduate from the Hitler School of Charm and Tact? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. Personally I think Brownback should resign today and choose the shameful Ms. Morris as his running mate for his soon-to-be failed presidential bid. Go Brownie!!

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msturner 8 years, 1 month ago

The problem I see with this article is that this is passed off as a news story but written as an editorial. This supposed journalist is writing an opinion piece, not a front page article. I have not followed 'Morris' close enough to know anything about her. This gentleman's opinion does make her sound rather corrupt. But for me the whole article loses its credibility because it is not written in any way shape or form as an objective piece. Even the title reveals a bias on the part of the author that makes me toss the article aside as the biased ramblings of a liberal who does not like conservatives - fine for an opinion piece but not for a front page article.

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oldgoof 8 years, 1 month ago

msturner.....the LJW has run lots of previous coverage which factually describes the foibles of Morris. It is a true that typically a public official with such problems is thrown out. for that reason, this article is written correctly, interviewing a range of people for reaction to this situation, and what this means about the election in general.

It is properly a news article... and better than the standard "here is connie morris" article

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Larry 8 years, 1 month ago

Hummm - when it comes to sex ed - liberals want choices. When it comes to contraception, liberals want choices. When it comes to sexual preference - liberals want choices, when it comes to foster parenting - liberals want choices, when comes to schooling - liberals want choic???? - whoops - lost me there. Someone please explain!

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craigers 8 years, 1 month ago

Thanks Larry, I needed a good laugh this morning.

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Larry 8 years, 1 month ago

Hey- it doesn't matter if we have school vouchers, build the most elaborate facilities, and hire only educators with a master's degree - education our kids will continue to be difficult until we find a solution to the problem that no one is willing to talk about because it would be politically incorrect or a death wish for a politician. That being fix the home!

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whatisjazz 8 years, 1 month ago

75x55: The "public school monopoly" fantasy needs to end. A recent study done by the US Dept. of Education (under the leadership of folks who also favor vouchers) has found what has been clear to anyone involved in education: public schools perform as good as, or better, than private schools.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/15/education/15report.html?ex=1153972800&en=bd133eef9366ff0e&ei=5070

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oldgoof 8 years, 1 month ago

Talking about charter schools or vouchers to solve any education problems in western Kansas is somewhat akin to solving education for the blind by buying them a new library of printed books.

It is just a total non-starter.

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Frank Smith 8 years, 1 month ago

Morris didn't take two cab rides for $147. She submitted clearly faked receipts in her own handwriting for that amount. She didn't "eat" that $150 in meals. She was feeding her husband and daughter at state expense, in the ocean view suite Kansas paid for until she made reluctant restitution. That's all public record. Even "Christian" Congressman Lynn Westmoreland, who wants the Ten Commandments posted in courtrooms, managed to remember (on Steven Colbert's show) three of the Decalogue that Morris prefers to ignore including "Don't lie," and "Don't steal." Morris should have been prosecuted.

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Larry 8 years, 1 month ago

Wow guys - I never said that I was a big supporter of voucher schools. I really don't have a stance either way on that. I just posted a question that I've always wanted answered. I come from a family of educators and they all agree to my previous statement about family life and the lack of appreciation for education. We could increase teacher salaries to $100,000 or more per year and it won't make a difference until the kids value the importance of being an educated citizen.

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Janet Lowther 8 years, 1 month ago

Folks, we have to stop calling whackos like Connie Morris Conservative. What, precisely do they wish to conserve? Not your freedom, that's for sure.

The state school board majority, as is the majority of Republican legislators are not conservative. They are AUTHORITARIAN: They wish to use the authority of the state to impose their views on everyone else.

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prioress 8 years, 1 month ago

Connie would very well get reelected because her medieval, racist bullsh*t plays very well in Western Kansas. Let's hope the nearly 80% who generally fail to vote in the August primaries, thereby allowing 10-11% of the population to call all the shots, finally wakes up. I remain skeptical.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Logicsound04:

"If our policymakers would take a devoted approach to fixing schools, i.e.-actually giving them money-"

Ah yes, L-sound, the mantra of the left: I care, I feel guilty, let's take money away from other people and give it to our children.

Tax the rich,, Feed the poor 'Till there are no Rich no more.

I'd love to change the world But I don't know what to do. So I'll leave it up to you.

Ten Year's After, 1971

That was 35 years ago, progressives. Yikes!

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sci4all 8 years, 1 month ago

If you don't want Connie back, you need to send money RIGHT NOW to her primary opponent, Sally Cauble at P.O. Box 1085, Liberal, KS 67905 .

Send whatever you can spare because the intelligent design network is flooding the airwaves and newspapers out west with ads to protect Connie's new science standards. They are spending thousands and thousands just in western KS.

Whether or not you agree with her stance on the standards, ya gotta agree she is NOT who we want representing Kansas education to the world.

It's just that simple, folks - if you're not donating to Sally RIGHT NOW, you're helping Connie win.

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RustyShackleford 8 years, 1 month ago

devobrun, I suppose you prefer the current system of taxing the working class to pay off rigged contracts for the rich. And don't give me any nonsense about working class people not paying taxes. On margin, I pay more than the wealthy class.

As to the school "choice" business-- the thing about private schooling isn't quality as much as it is about social networking. The problem with sending one lucky poor kid to a wealthy private school is that s/he can't employ the network to fullest extent because everyone knows what's what. The student may be lucky enough to learn Latin (but probably not) and have classes on varities of religious propaganda. O, wait! In the case of the latter, Kansas already provides it in public school! We'll probably be used as a model.

To the very first comment: from all evidence, voters are exactly that stupid. This is one of the main illnesses of our system. At least with a feudal monarchy there was a sense of noblesse oblige.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

The operative term is hurt. Your feelings are hurt, so you call me a name. Top notch rhetoric, LOGICsound.

Corporations are an abstraction. They are a collection of humans, who work for, invest in, or manage the collective. Taxing them is just another tax on the people who are associated with the corporation.

If corporations paid no tax, ever, then the employees, managers, and shareholders would have more income and they would pay more taxes.

You can't hurt a corporation. It has no feelings. You can hurt the people associated with it.

Calm down, ----sound04, separate feelings from thought.
It isn't money.

It is respect.

I teach high school, Mr. sound. The most important thing for jr. and senior high kids to learn is respect. Respect for themselves, classmates, teachers, and parents.

Private schools can demand respect from their employees, students, and yes even the parents. We can fire people. Public schools cannot.

Money doesn't buy respect.

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rhd99 8 years, 1 month ago

The reason why CONSERVATIVES in Kansas are tough to shake off in the Board of Education races is because the Democrats aren't doing ENOUGH to railroad EVERY policy decision undertaken by the REPUBLICANS! Voters in Kansas, it is time to SHAKE THINGS UP! Get out there & VOTE!

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Wow, I agree with you regarding the religious right and the party of God. Right on.

Now repeat the same sentiments for the party of secularism, the God of evolution, environmentalism. The dems.

That's right logicsound04, Christians have been known to lie and cheat and steal. And so have people who believe in evolution.

Again, look closely at your feelings, then think about them. Might you be irritated by anybody who questions the authority of your beliefs?

I'm guessin' that Connie Morris is quite wrong about how evolution/creation should be taught. I'm equally sure that statements by evolutionists like "all living things descend from a common ancestor" are :

1) Bogus 2) completely lacking of fecundity.

Lemme give you a possible path for your thought. Is this whole argument (evo/ID) simply about primacy of ideas? Neither idea having any application to a farmer in western Kansas except to satisfy a religious question like "where did all this come from?"

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Klickhammer 8 years, 1 month ago

Devoburn, hilarious assessment of corporations. Nice Stockholm syndrome. What else can we do to help those poor corporations out? A corporation is more than its collected patrons, old chap, it's also a legal entity with the rights of a person designed to turn a profit; its responsible almost exclusively to its shareholders. This, in turn, leads to tremendous profits -- mostly for those share holders -- and a blatant disregard for anything that stands in the way of profit. This includes engaging in externalization, abuse, fraud, negligence and profusion.

Turning education over to these things would be a huge mistake. Vouchers? Try funding schools and ensuring a good education for all kids and not just your own. Whatever happened to good Republican principals? What about looking out for the little guy? Why does every Republican seem to have Stockholm syndrome -- sympathizing with the very aggressor trying to do him harm?

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Klickhammer 8 years, 1 month ago

The problem is the perception that tax money is somehow wasted and very inefficient, and that private money is used wisely and very efficient. These are myths created by the propaganda machine. These myths are created with an implicit benefit to those private companies who want your money. Schools are not inefficient and wasteful, unless you consider it a waste of money to educate the underprivileged.

Public money, in the case of education, is more democratic (in the sense that voters can shape its use) and not under the constant pressure to turn a profit and so not under control of any specific self-interest.

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kmat 8 years, 1 month ago

devobrun - teachers like you are one of the main reasons I retired from teaching and entered the business world. From reading your posts, I feel that you care more about yourself and your beliefs than educating the students. I saw that in a lot of teachers that I though were too comfortable in their jobs and had been there too long. Teachers get lazy and think they know all because they've been doing it for so long.

Our schools need money! Period! I spent so much money out of pocket to make sure my students (mainly low income) had all needed supplies. The school didn't ever have enough supplies, so I'd buy classroom supplies as well. And you think that money that should be going to the public schools should be given away as vouchers so some people can send their kids to private (mostly religious) schools?!!!!

This state makes me sick. I think KS is trying to create a generation of kids so stupid they'll never challenge the "status quo".

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

logicsound04, cool off, you are belieing the first word of yer name.

1) Where did I ask you to defer to me on the basis of my experience? I welcome rational dissent from anything I state here.

2) It is much harder to fire a teacher, student, or family from a public school than from a private school. e.g. Public schools have unions. See the following regarding respect.

3) I did not equate respect with the ability to fire somebody. What I said is that a private school can demand respect from the participants of the school. If a person cannot, or will not treat themselves or others with respect, then we can fire them. Public schools have a wider tolerance for disrespect than in my school.

4) I agree that high school is about education and preparation of the students. Have you raised any teenagers? Have you taught any teenagers? They are a bundle of hormones and emotions. These feelings are new to them and scary.

Confidence and respect are fundamental to teaching these kids anything. No respect, no education.

If a student hates herself, if a student hates his teacher, if a parent and teacher aren't reinforcing each other with a similar message to the student, then you are going to have a tough time teaching that student.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Klick,

"Why does every Republican seem to have Stockholm syndrome -- sympathizing with the very aggressor trying to do him harm?"

"it's also a legal entity with the rights of a person designed to turn a profit; its responsible almost exclusively to its shareholders.:

Because the republicans are the shareholders?

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

"That's your job, slick"

And it begins with respect.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

They get sent to social welfare institutions, rehab, prison, etc.

After a reasonable chance (defined by the doctor) they can get fired. That's right, patients can and are refused service by doctors when the relationship is untenable, e.g. no respect.

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dotteboy 8 years, 1 month ago

FAITH 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions 2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust 3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs synonym see BELIEF - on faith : without question

I have faith in God. But can we prove one exists? I don't have faith in the conservative aproach to education. I know abstinence is the best form of contraception, but I don't have faith teens will practice it. Do (and did) you? Did Connie Morris? Why, as a country, do we believe people should live free from theocracies (Islam) but embrace it (Evangelic) here? In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own (Letter to H. Spafford, 1814).-Thomas Jefferson

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Kmat,

So you and I went opposite directions. I worked in industry for 25 years. Owned 2 companies. Retired and now teach H.S. and university.

I'm pretty sure that I never said anything on this board about supporting vouchers. In fact, I think that having students whose parents have a real economic commitment to the education of their kids is terrific.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

HGA,

How 'bout the gal who lands in the hospital about every 3rd Sunday because she is a raging alcoholic and diabetic?

At some point, ya gotta have a talk about livin' and diein'. And whether the doctor wants to watch it happen.

Or the patient who goes to a doctor for 20 years and never makes one copay on her medicaid. Sure enough she comes up positive on a Pap test and goes to a ob/gyn who performs the required procedure. Since the gyn doc is insistent about being payed, the patient sues the first doc.

The suit gets tossed out, but then, a few months later, the patient calls the first doc's office for an appointment. Would you accept this patient back?

No, HGA, I require that my students: Respect themselves and others, Learn a few physics principles, Learn to think thru a problem and solve it.

The extent to which they accomplish these goals determines their grade in the class.


Usually once a year the topic of cosmology comes up. Multidimensional, string theory, big bang, dark energy, quantum gravity.... yea all that stuff.

I tell them that cutting edge theoretical physics has a lot of hypotheses about origins, and that they are modified as measurements come in. I use the big bang and the subsequent dark energy model as an example of how this is going.

Ultimately, I tell them that the reason that there are so many theories is that there are no good ways to test the hypotheses. Even the theoretical physicists are getting edgy. See Krauss in http://www.edge.org/

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

You guys have an odd way of putting words into my mouth, or interpreting things that aren't there.

By respect, I don't mean obsequiousness.

"Teachers were not an authority figure that I looked to for how to behave in life"

Yep, me neither. The reason that I question evo/Id is that I question authority.

Every physics principle that I teach has a demonstration/experiment/test associated with it. Sometimes it's a bunch of 'em. Generally, the kids do it.

This cannot be said for evolution or ID.

You guys are emphasizing the respect for teachers and parents. Lemme stear you more toward respect for oneself.

Lack of self-respect, self-esteem, self-confidence is a major theme for teenagers.

Teachers and parents have to help kids thru this period. It starts with learning to respect something, anything, and building from there.

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james bush 8 years, 1 month ago

I was raised in catholic schools through 12th grade. Too bad most kids don't get the benefit of religious schools as long as they aren't radical islamic!

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james bush 8 years, 1 month ago

Or radical of any sort.............ie, Fred Phelps

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Scientific method is conjecture and refutation. Not conjecture and varification. We differ on this point.

A test is not going back in time and hindcasting based on a model. Testing is posing a conjecture and then doing it, or not. If not, then the hypothesis is refuted.

Evo statement: " all biological things have a common ancestor".

As I sit here in my insulated house with the heat pump transferring heat from inside to outside, I ponder the question: " if I rejected the above statement, what would I have to give up?"

If I rejected conservation of energy, then I would be hypocritical (i.e. irrational) to be enjoying the cool air.

If I rejected evolution, what would I have to give up?

What exists around me as a result of our knowledge of the common ancestor statement?

I mean, let's replace evo with : Murphy's Law (anything that can happen will) plus laws of physics which determine what can happen. Just as an exercise in rational thought, you guys tell me what I would be hypocritical about if I replaced evo with Murphy/Physics.

This is an opportunity for you to show your knowledge of evollution theory, and the fruitful testing that goes on. How can my replacement hypothesis by rejected while the evo hypothesis is not.

I'll check back later. Gotta go to the store.

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james bush 8 years, 1 month ago

TIME FOR VOUCHERS IN THE SYSTEM FOR K-12! The evolution science can occur in yhe universities and on blogs such as this!

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

"Just because your everyday life does not change based on "believing" or rejecting a scientific theory does not make that theory invalid."

Right, logicsound04, it makes it meaningless in a scientific way.

See, if the evolution you speak of only has meaning in terms of abstract ideas about how all this got here, then you are engaging in religion or philosophy.

Theories for which there is no hope for implementation are indistinguishable from religion. You may disagree. The only time my philosophy causes me trouble is when I run into "new definition scientists". People who must create a definition of science that justifies their beliefs.

To the extent that statements about living things can be tested in a refutable way, those statements are science. Seems pretty clean and manageable to me.

It allows people to make any conjecture about the world if they want. However, the statements become scientific if and only if they are testable. By insisting on the test for refutation, science protects itself from charlatans, like L. Ron Hubbard, ID/Creationists and , sorry to say, people who make statements about my connection to some primordial worm.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Assertions 1-5 are the conjecture phase of science. They are also the kind of steps followed by a D.A. when collecting evidence of a crime.

Step 6 is what scientists do after the first 5 steps. It is called refutation. The quality and quantity of the testing allow scientists to gradually move from hypothesis to theory to "law". Even laws are subject to scrutiny.

The D.A. goes to a jury (or a judge) and has them decide. The "new" scientist goes to the wise men and the public for their opinion. When lots of people think that the theory is true, it's true. Don't question the authority. Scientists are smart.

Step 7 is written backwards. Other people don't just try what you did. Other people try extensions, modifications, logical inversions, and all kinds of testing. Not to confirm your results but to just see for themselves. To try to refute the work that you did.

Step 8 doesn't exist in science. I really don't know why you included it unless you really are a person of scientific faith.

I'm not a person of much faith. It makes life so much simpler.

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drewdun 8 years, 1 month ago

"Political logic says Morris, a conservative, should be in trouble - but that's a long way from saying she will lose in the Aug. 1 primary, Rackaway said."

Said it before, say it again - right-wingers don't let the facts get in the way of the 'truth.' They KNOW their 'team' is always right, and they will ignore reality UNTIL THE DAY THEY DIE, and keep pulling levers for the Rs, regardless of obvious corruption, blatant incompetence, and general malfeasance. Its like they shut their brains off when it comes to politics - "Nope, sorry, brains full. I know everything I need to know. Why? Because W and the GOP said so."

These people are a cancer on our society; thankfully they are a dying breed, and the ignorant hicks in Western Kansas will be cleared out before long - due to attrition and the fact that EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE BORN THERE DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A WASTELAND. They can keep their far-right circle-jerk going for the next couple of decades, but when the last light is turned out, hello Buffalo Commons!

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Richard_Poore 8 years, 1 month ago

Having worked at the State Department of Education for the past several years I would like to impress upon my fellow Kansans the magnitude of the mis-directed leadership the current State Board of Education has inflicted upon the public education system throughout the state. To characterize the Board's actions as embarrassing or unfortunate deminishes the scope of their destructive and anti-educational undertakings. Peel back the slogan system of the No Child Left Behind legislation, and the pious posturing of the neo-religious/dominion followers and you have individuals who are committed to dismantling of public education and whose view towards chilhood can only be understood as an Old Testament version of human capital. I would challenge any reader of this post to visit with a public school teacher or administrator and ask them about the State Board of Education. Or better yet, come to a State Board of Education meeting and experience the "workings" of the board in person. The Board is not working for the betterment of the classroom teacher. The Board is not working for the enhancement of student learning. The Board is not working to strengthen public schools. The Board, and with them the "commissioner," are detetermined to undermine the public school system, your public school system. With little to no regard to the chaos created for the kids in the system now or the longer term consequences for kids in the future. THEIR needs, not the needs of students and teachers are the focus of their workings. This is no joking matter. The smuggness of a blog post or the trite exchange of well rehearsed retorts is a pitiful excuse for a deeper understanding of the blatant irresponsibility displayed by we adults in regards to the attention we have given ( are more appropriately not given) to the governing body in charge of our children's education. Historians will look at this generation and ask why did these parents, these caring adults allow this noble creation of a democratic society, this education for all, be undermined by the likes of Connie Morris, Iris Van Meter Steve Abrams, or John Bacon? The children, teachers, and school professionals of this state deserve far far better than this Board of Education can possibly provide. And it falls upon the likes of people like you and me to provide that opportunity once again for our children and our educators. Behind "our" wittiness, our slogans, our comfortable alligiances and safe distance from the aftermath of ill-conceived policy are the kids who must deal with the consequences of our cynical games and mendacity. It might be a good idea to vote, this August 1 and later in November, not on the self-serving/righteous basis of our affiliations but on our understanding of good education and our affection for children.

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drewdun 8 years, 1 month ago

jimincountry said: "TIME FOR VOUCHERS IN THE SYSTEM FOR K-12! The evolution science can occur in yhe universities and on blogs such as this!"

You know, I'm starting to agree with this thought. Us 'liberals' will teach our kids science and reality-based subjects so they can better understand the world. The right-wingers can teach their kids creationism - "Well, I can't explain it, must be God!" - I mean, come on, coming from right-wing nutball parents, they are going to be far behind in critical thinking skills anyways, why not go for the whole enchilada. They can have pre-Copernican astronomy - "Jesus says the sun revolves around the Earth, which is the center of the universe!"; pre-industrial medicine - "You have a headache? Put your arm out - we need to bleed you, little mister!"; and they can focus on the important things: memorization of the Bible. Well, I guess important thing. When the chasm between our intelligence and knowledge is too great for us to coexist, we 'liberals' (read: reality-based people) will take the East and West Coast, and Colorado and New Mexico. Right-wing stone-agers get Texas, Kansas and Alabama.

I think this will work out GREAT! We'll both get what we've always wanted - liberals can live in unadulterated reality, while the righties will be told (and will believe)only what they want to hear. Wait a minute.....that is already happening.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Observation is part of science, HGA. It isn't what makes science. Again, a misrepresentation. Testing my patience HGA.

I don't have much problem with astronomy, it's fun. Astronomy within the solar system shows some promise of having meaning, too.

I have a big problem with cosmology, and so do the cosmologists right now. All that big bang stuff of 10 or 20 years ago is only about 10 % of the story. The other part is a big mystery.

Uh oh, the universe is accelerating! Must be "dark energy", kinda like the ether, or phlogiston.

The temperature of the sun at its core is a number that has been postulated on the basis of a model of the sun.

Since it hasn't been measured it is fudged, derived, estimated. That's right, it is a number that would exist if the processes of the sun are correctly modeled.

Do we know the model for the sun? Only sortof.

Why should I care what the temp of the core of the sun is? Well, it might help if I want to duplicate controlled nuclear fusion here on earth. Otherwise, I guess, I could lord it over non-believers, like evolutionists do.

No thanks.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Point 5: " hypothesis of a connection or correlation between first phenomenon and second phenomenom.

So, you gather evidence, and you proceed to point 5. Conjecture. An educated guess, subject to test.

So, you don't like my use of "conjecture" in relation to "hypothesis". Symantics.

Point is that steps 1-5 are common to many erudite and fecund endeavors no matter what you call it. The science is in the test.

Oh, HGA you missed the word "just" in the sentence. You also missed the next sentence which expands on the previous. This is how they get refuted. You are tedious HGA.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

Mr Poore,

You don't like the current BOE. You want me to vote for other people. And feel guilty.

That's it?

Can do. What are our marching orders, sir?

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

"Observation is what makes up science. That which you can not observe is, by definition, "not science"."

And then logicsound's q regarding the temp at the core of the sun.

Hmmmm, Can't observe the core of the sun, so it isn't science. Maybe you two should have a talk about what constitutes science.

Oh, logicsound, you would be fine in my class. To use a Beatle analogy, you could be Paul and I could be John. If we brought in a true mystic (religious type), he could be George. Ringo, shoot, we could find any ole guy to play him.

Yer cutesy wootsie science would be a fine break from the meaningful.

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devobrun 8 years, 1 month ago

HGA,

Do ya think that yer messages are improving yer position on the discussion?

Repeated personal attacks are not really what these boards are about are they?

I guess I could request your messages be removed, but that would remove the hatred from you. You are making my point better than I could.

Invective, HGA, doesn't advance rational discussion.

Again, I must leave now.

Can't you do better than this?

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sci4all 8 years, 1 month ago

Are y'all gonna do something about defeating Morris, or just sit around and bicker?

Donate. Now. Otherwise, you're all talk and no walk.

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Terry Jacobsen 8 years, 1 month ago

Neurotic, paranoid conservative bashing.... Keep it up, and see what good it does. Come November we will still have a conservative majority on the BOE, because the majority of Kansans DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU!! GET IT?????

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Kodiac 8 years, 1 month ago

All,

Devo/David is a creationist. He believes in the literal interpretation of Genesis which is why he is so adamant about trying to eliminate evolution from science. Every argument that Devo has put out comes out of the creationist movement including the "if you can't see it, then it didn't happen" attitude and the twisting of Popper's philosophies. In fact, everything Devo is doing is a creationist tactic. I think it is useless to argue with David with regards to science because he is constantly changing his definitons to fit his creationist viewpoints. As I have said before I am very disappointed to see the type of behavior David and I certainly don't have a lot of respect for people who hide their real intentions. This really isn't about science, it is about your religious beliefs David.....

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

TO ALL: THIS is Priceless. A GOOD Christian evading taxes!

"The evangelist says he's not a tax protester, asserting he has no income or property because everything belongs to God."

LOL what a hoot!

"Creationist 'employed by God' charged with tax fraud"

"Insisting he is employed by God, a Florida evangelist who founded a creationist theme park faces tax-fraud charges.

Kent Hovind of Pensacola, known as "Dr. Dino," declared at a hearing July 17 he does not recognize the government's right to try him."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51236

THIS GUY WANTS TO COMMENT ON SCIENCE!!!!????!!!!

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

GOod news fellow Christians....NO taxes!!!

God does so love us!

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