Business neighbors split on music's role / LJWorld.com

Archive for Tuesday, February 7, 2006

February 7, 2006

Inside Supersonic Music, 1023 Mass., the debate Monday wasn't about gun violence and hip-hop music. Here, a customer and a clerk haggled about whether a guitar with a bolt-on neck was any good.

A typical day for the music shop. But Sunday morning, life was anything but typical after a gunman shot down two men after a hip-hop show at the Granada, killing one, not far from the music store, and critically wounding the other.

"I was sad that it had to be tied into music," owner Brian Baggett said between helping customers.

Baggett makes his living helping other people create music. But he said as much as he hated to, he had to look toward the music at the Granada that night as a possible trigger for the violence.

"Isn't it obvious?" he asked. "It's not like we're talking about music that doesn't talk about it."

The violence, Baggett said, was simply a reaction to the music's sometimes-violent imagery and lyrics. The people who make the music write about their lives, which in many cases revolve around violent incidents.

"Everybody writes about what they know," he said. And sometimes, he said, those experiences aren't positive or peaceful.

Next door, Gary and Eileen Strong of Strong's Antiques and Aimee's Coffee Shop mirrored Baggett's thoughts.

To the Strongs, the violence wasn't about race or the venue. But it was, to some extent, about the music and the fans it attracts to live shows.

Photo by Mike Yoder

Brian Baggett, manager at Supersonic Music, 1023 Mass., assists customer and Lawrence musician Grant Fader at the downtown store Monday. Sunday morning's shooting incident outside the Granada occurred across the street from the downtown music store. Baggett said it was an unfortunate incident, but hopes it doesn't reflect badly on musical events.

"There have been problems with hip-hop events before," Gary Strong said. "It's not race-related; it's just the kind of music."

Their block, they said, was safe and quiet. Nestled between two homeless shelters and a series of bars, Eileen Strong said, it's as diverse a location as Lawrence has, something the couple welcomed.

But they said that on nights when big hip-hop shows come to town - especially to the Granada, a large venue in the middle of downtown - they'd like to see police do more to make sure no fights break out after the show.

But Rex Porter at Rex's Stadium Barbershop, 1033 Mass., said violence had nothing to do with the kind of music being played.

He said that for people to start passing around blame was an overreaction. It's just one incident that simply went too far.

"We have bars; there's going to be nighttime activity," Porter said.

Unfortunately, Porter said, it was just one night when a fight broke out, tempers flared, and a gun went off.

Discussion

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7 February 2006
at 10:15 a.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

Thank God at least Porter has common sense.
7 February 2006
at 11:58 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

I remember that in one of the Encyclopeadia Brittanica yearbooks from the late fifteis that Rock And Roll is described as “jungle music” and that Elvis Presley was going to be merely a one-shot wonder.

The article further described Rock And Roll as being a call to violence, sexual deviation, indecency and all sorts of immoral hoopty-doo.

Thanks.

Marion.
7 February 2006
at 4:21 p.m.

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christie (Anonymous) says…

I vote for Sexual Deviation, Indecency, and all kinds of Immoral Hoppty-Doo.

It's a sick world and I'm a happy camper.
7 February 2006
at 4:23 p.m.

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JimmyJoeBob (Anonymous) says…

I think Mr. Porter is a little naive when it comes to the world of Hip Hop. You can all stand around a try to be “politically correct” if you want but it will get nothing done but get another person killed. It is the culture of the people making this music and what they try to present as an image. It is that simple. When was the last time an artist like Barry Manilow was gunned down by a rival artist like Elton John. Answer never. It happens all the time in the Hip Hop world.
7 February 2006
at 4:26 p.m.

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cutny (Anonymous) says…

Hmmm…sounds like a vaguely racist article to me. Oh well, not to worry, with Olin on the job I'm sure the perp will be caught…uh…one of these days?
7 February 2006
at 4:29 p.m.

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spacystaci8 (Anonymous) says…

Is that a gun Elton, or are you happy to see Barry?
7 February 2006
at 4:37 p.m.

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absolutelyridiculous (Anonymous) says…

Mr. Porter's kids obviously aren't old enough for him to worry about it. He'll change his tune when his kids get older and he has to listen to that crap.

7 February 2006
at 5:50 p.m.

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hilly (Anonymous) says…

So I'm from Lawrence, but I go to school at a small college in Missouri, so I'm getting the KC news stations coverage of all this.

But I watched the channel 5 news the other night, and to me it seemed like the entire report was saying that the only time there's violence at a show its when it's hip-hop and that's because only black people go to hip-hop shows.

I mean, I seriously doubt that's what they ment, but that's how it came across, which really irked me.

So is it as big of a racial thing back in Lawrence, or is it just the way this news station wants to portray it?
7 February 2006
at 5:57 p.m.

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Ember (Anonymous) says…

Well, since it is obviously the fault of the music, there is no point in prosecuting the the person that pulled the trigger, eh?

Nothing like a good, old fashioned lack of personal responsibility for one's actions to get the day going, I suppose.

Self control and a grip on one's temper is also entirely overrated.
7 February 2006
at 6:18 p.m.

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SirCharles (Anonymous) says…

JimmyJoeBob sounds pretty Redneck and backwoods name to me but I am trying to be politically correct. Music doesnt kill people, the music industry doesn't kill people, people kill people. Its unfortunate that some people in our society deal with there problems this way but it is what it is and it can even happen in Lawrence,KS. I am sure there has been plenty of hip-hop shows in Lawrence without incident but one bad situation puts the hip hop industry in Lawrence on notice. Easy JimmyJoeBob. You remember the guy that assinated John Lennon I am sure that was due to his violent music.
7 February 2006
at 6:53 p.m.

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mitchell09 (Anonymous) says…

I just recently moved back to Lawrence after a number of years in Atlanta, Georgia, & I've got to tell you…you really don't know how good you've got it. Violence erupted in Lawrence & someone got shot & killed- not to sound callous, but it happens. People get shot & killed everywhere, all the time, for a variety of reasons. How many people have been shot at gas stations, & yet no one ever suggests shutting down gas stations? Sure, it's a ridiculous, albeit, stupid comparison, but certainly no more ridiculous than the theory that this tragedy occurred due SOLELY to Topekans, black people, hip hop music, or a volitile mix of the three. The bottom line is, people get killed everywhere, all the time, & a big reason they get killed is because of…other people. Sometimes other people are just BAD. If you want Lawrence to be just like it was ten or twenty years ago, then move to a town whose size is comparable to that of Lawrence ten or twenty years ago. As a town grows, so does it's appeal to a variety of people, whether or not you like it and/or them. One final note- I find it beyond the valley of ironic that, as we celebrate the life & work of Coretta Scott King at her passing, there is still so much thinly veiled racism in a town that touts itself as incredibly educated & diverse…which I suppose ultimately validates my point.
7 February 2006
at 7:26 p.m.

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moosejeffries (Anonymous) says…

hey wendt what about wifes who come home early ???????
7 February 2006
at 7:40 p.m.

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mike_blur (Mike Blur) says…

Mitchell09, in response to your question, I don't think anyone has ever been shot at a gas station in Lawrence. EVER.

What people fail to mention over the discourse of the past three days is that is that Topeka and metro KC have, over the past few years, effectively banned hip-hop concerts, due to violent incidents. Maybe the violence has been exported to Lawrence, along with the shows. I myself have been to two hip-hop shows in my life: one in Lawrence, at the KU Ballroom, with a lilywhite fratboy audience, and one in KCK, where my friend and I were the only two non-black people there. The show at the KU Ballroom was mostly uneventful, except for the “gangstaz-for-a-night” fratboys booing the all-white opening band (a straight-on rock band) off the stage. The KCK show, however, was marred by a fight involving at least 50-75 concert-goers, and there was a shooting in the parking lot after the show. Out of the couple-thousand live music shows I've seen over the past 25 years in the Lawrence/KC area, that was the only time I've heard of gun violence at a show I've been at. Over the past ten years, I've abided by this rule: If there are metal detectors, wands, or pat-downs at the door, it is no show I want to be a part of.

(The only time I've been patted down at a Lawrence show: January 1993, when Ice-T and his punk rock band Body Count played at the Outhouse—when it was a punk rock club.)

You are right, Wendt, racism still exists in Lawrence (and I know this all too well, as I am not white, nor am I black.) And sure, the incidents are isolated, but to me, it seems that I see the same arguments every time something like this happens. The only thing I do is advise my nieces and nephews who are of club-going age is to watch yourself, and think twice over going into a club that has airport-type security stationed at the front door.
7 February 2006
at 7:59 p.m.

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Bialosky (Anonymous) says…

someone who is claiming “rascism” please explain to me how it is rascist to equate rap with violence. rap glorifies violence to an excess surpassing any other genre. in addition, people of all races create and listen to rap music. To me, calling someone who who perceptively links rap to violence a rascist is a little rascist itself. Who's making the race-based assumptions here ? Did anyone say, “black music causes violence,” or, “well, they were playing rap, so blacks are going to be shooting off guns” ? it could have been a suburban eminem wanna be just as easily - and I would claim he is just as impressionable as any urban black youth. i find this inferment of the article or ctizens' comments to be offensive. i feel i must reiterate that rap music, while popular with blacks, obviously isn't strictly limited to them. if a white man is convicted of this crime, I will still partially blame the violence - glorifying nature of rap.
7 February 2006
at 8:27 p.m.

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mitchell09 (Anonymous) says…

Rap music is far from the only genre of music that glorifies violence. After all, didn't Johnny Cash shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die? John Lennon, who sang & fought for world peace, was killed by one of his own “fans”. Large scale atrocities occur, & yet, no one ever says, “Hmmm…I bet it was Hitler's record collection that was responsible…” Whatever happened to holding individuals responsible for their actions? Blaming artists for creating provocative material is a slippery slope indeed…

7 February 2006
at 8:40 p.m.

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nairb (Brian Baggett) says…

No the music didn't pull the trigger BUT, it did tell this guy that it was “cool” to carry the gun, call women $%^#, deal drugs etc…… We need more positivity in hip hop. A good example would be Lawrence hip hop artists and Kanye West.
7 February 2006
at 8:45 p.m.

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CrusherMechanic (Anonymous) says…

Here's the breakdown on what different genres cause to happen in society (note - since L is the “City of the Arts” we are especially prone to these symptoms):

Rap: well, we're all sadly aware of it's effect (thanks, Baggett, for again driving home the usual stereotype)
Blues: overeating, indigestion, drunkeness and related ill effects
Country: relationship troubles, drunkeness, sadness, anger
Raga: causes long bouts of stupification
Classical: rigidity of the spine
Jazz: incessant bobbing of the head, beginning at the cervical region, all the while maintaining a serious look on the face (yes, Baggett, you've got this - better get looked at)
Rock: Just look at the Rolling Stones and tell me if you want to end up looking like that!
Funk: Forget it, man…don't even start
Bluegrass: multiple personalities are common, generally subjects come under the impression that they're from the hills when in fact they probably live next door
Fusion: total repulsion of members of the opposite sex
Hardcore: pasty skin and dark circles under the eyes

Well…this is just the beginning. The research is sound (no pun intended). As you can see, music is simply not doing us much good at all, and should be looked at seriously by all concerned parties. If you want to stay happy and healthy you should look elsewhere.
7 February 2006
at 8:57 p.m.

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nairb (Brian Baggett) says…

Music is a beautiful, positive window into the unexplainable. That is what makes it so sad to see artists using it to breed negativity. And no it isn't the music, it is the LYRICS over it.
7 February 2006
at 9:36 p.m.

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yeahboss (Anonymous) says…

A little off topic but I'm just curious if anyone knows where to find the exact number of violent crimes commited at, around and after hip hop shows last year and compare it to the number of violent crimes that happen at, around and after say, high schools nationwide. If we're really going to take this approach I would think that we should also consider education as bad, if not worse than the worst of all forms of music that may stir violent acts.
7 February 2006
at 10:13 p.m.

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Ember (Anonymous) says…

From Eminem:

They say music can alter moods and talk to you

But can it load a gun up for you and cock it too?

Well if it can, then the next time you assault a dude

Just tell the judge it was my fault, and I'll get sued

A hip-hop artist asking the exact same question I have asked at least a half dozen times already.

Get a freaking grip people.
8 February 2006
at 12:34 a.m.

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milesbonny (Miles Bonny) says…

All artists are different regardless of genre. How about talking about songs that are about violence, rather than the perceived genre attached to it an artist.

Mos Def is not similar to 50 cent.

Charlie Parker is not at all like Kenny G.

The White Stripes is very different from
Hootie and the Blowfish.

but I agree, it may not be tied to music at all,
I wasnt there. I'm just saying, all this “hip hop this and that” is a bit general.
8 February 2006
at 2:34 a.m.

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Adam (Anonymous) says…

I think we're missing the point here. there are many factors that determine a guitars' quality and playability, and just because a guitar has a set neck doesn't mean it will be better than a bolt-on design. A good guitar is a good guitar, period, regardless of whether or not it has a bolt on or set neck design.