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Archive for Friday, December 29, 2006

Draft opposed

December 29, 2006

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To the editor:

Though most Americans support our troops wholeheartedly, as do I, many do not support this war. Though Article 1, Section 8, of the Constitution clearly states that only Congress can declare war, President Bush seems to have successfully bypassed this document, which is the foundation of our treasured democracy.

A Selective Service agency official stated that a comprehensive review of the military's draft machinery will be tested, but that no draft is imminent. This test was last run in 1998. Facing diminishing support, President Bush could use a draft to continue his war indefinitely.

Though the president's power seems nearly limitless, let me make one thing perfectly clear: You can take my money, my integrity, my dignity, but you will never take my children.

Run your test if you must, but there are tens of millions of voters out here who will never permit you to draft our children to fight your war and defend your ego.

Will Lunn,

Lawrence

Comments

UKept 7 years, 11 months ago

Looks like this is just what it says on the package, a test, not an attempt to re-instate the draft. That being said, Bushie's statement a few days ago indicating his desire to increase the number of troops serving in tandem with the news of the testing is creepy.

estespark 7 years, 11 months ago

"binge drinking, being an a$$hole,poor people coping skills"

I (as well as countless others) learned these bad habits in college.

number3of5 7 years, 11 months ago

Going into the military service might teach a sense of responsibility to many of our younger adults of today. They might learn what it means to have a committment, to get up on time and to work on time. I don't feel we need to send them to this particular war however. But being in the service might be just what some of the young adults of today need.

BigAl 7 years, 11 months ago

Besides, as far as a draft is concerned, Bush knows full well how to avoid one. You use your daddy to pull some strings and keep you stateside in the National Guard. If you work it right, you don't even have to attend meetings.

BigAl 7 years, 11 months ago

That can't be good. Being in politics and having a middle name like that.
His Mom is probably saying "Who knew?"

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 11 months ago

If they get sent to Iraq, it would more likely teach them what it's like to be dead, maimed for life and/or abandoned by the US government that sent them there.

Kelly Powell 7 years, 11 months ago

3 of 5....That is true....the flip side of that is that people allso pick up very bad habits in the millitary(binge drinking, being an a$$hole,poor people coping skills) I've known many friends who have had a hard time dealing with being a civillian after their stint.....

tell_it_like_it_is 7 years, 11 months ago

My boy will go when hell freezes. Send them Bush twins over there.

BigAl 7 years, 11 months ago

When GWB was visiting Viet Nam, I was thinking that would give him a chance to finally finish out his National Guard duty.

werekoala 7 years, 11 months ago

Innocuous_posts:

Did you have a point to make?

All:

I'm pretty liberal, and I support the draft idea. Here's why - if you anti-war folks are wondering why you aren't getting more traction like you saw in the Vietnam era, it's because by and large, most people have only the vaguest and most tenuous connection to the military.

I think that if it were understood that any time a division or more of our troops was committed to a combat zone, replacements would be drafted from our citizens as a whole; we'd be a lot less likely to let Congress sit idly by while the President got us involved in some bungled crusade.

It also works from a national security standpoint - if we've got X number of combat brigades ready during peacetime, and we commit a major fraction of them to an operational theater, we are more vulnerable across the rest of the world until we either widthdraw those units, or replace them. Since widthdrawing isn't usually a viable option, the solution seems to be replacing them.

BigAl 7 years, 11 months ago

werekoala... I think you bring up some good points. I am a Viet Nam veteran and I agree with you 100%. You describe the situation very, very well.

oldgranny 7 years, 11 months ago

Well lets see. If they reinstate the draft there would be 2 choices for most young people. Either go and run the risk of being killed or maimed. Or don't go and have that decision haunt you for the rest of your life. Hell of a choice there. I have 2 grandsons that will soon be of age. They are both honorable young men and I'm sure they would both choose to go if need be. I hope God damns all of you ingnorant people who voted in this disgraceful man and continue to support him to hell.

werekoala 7 years, 11 months ago

innocuous_posts:

Well, it's a proposal in the House, and Obama's a Senator, so he really doesn't have a chance to vote on it right now.

But way to really play up the "hussein card" - typical redneck jingoism. Sad thing is, it's worked before, probably will work again.

Say - didja hear McCain had a black baby? http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/

BigAl 7 years, 11 months ago

Although GWB has us in a terrible mess, I definitely hope that we do not reinstate the draft.

Speakout 7 years, 11 months ago

"What is in a name? that which you call a rose, by anyother name would smell as sweet." A line from Shakespeare. I don't care that Obama's middle name is Hussein or Bush, lets judge him on his character and abilities.

Lets see, I have a friend whose last name is McVeigh who is a Methodist Minister and a friend whose last name is Bush who runs a good real estate company. Neither, that I know, are related to the well known men of the same last name. I know another guy, Osama, who runs a gas station and a friend named Surratt whose family was involved in the hiding of John Wilkes Booth but they haven't harbored any murderers since. So I guess they are OK.

In an Interview with Rangel, HE said that he doesn't want the draft reinstated but wanted to show that IF we had the draft more people would be non-supportive of Bush to wage this foolish war.

jonas 7 years, 11 months ago

Didn't Vietnam show us that that makes no difference whatsoever? We had a draft then, there was massive public outcry, and we stayed in an "unwinnable" war for a long time.

Really, when you get down and think about it, Rangel's proposal, even on his own admitted set of motivations, doesn't really make much sense. Since he has no support for it, including from himself, it's not going to get passed, and so there is no reality of a draft, which does not hurt Bush and his war. It does get people talking, though, about Senator Rangel, and gets his name into the public forum.

Innocuous-Posts: "B. Hussein Obama," wow, you really are a big tool aren't you? Is that you, Hoof-Hearted?

There should be an update for the Godwin rule to include terrorists and islamofascists (which seems to mean "arabs I don't like, from what I can tell) subject to the same Godwin rules.

Maybe we could call it "amahdwin's rule"

Jamesaust 7 years, 11 months ago

A stupid letter.

Of all things, trying to tar Bush - the one guy who is publically dismissive of a draft and has stubbornly refused to expand the size of the military at all - with someone else's ideas.

I guess hate drives out all reason.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 11 months ago

I really don't favor the draft, until I run into the flag wavers who think going to war is so patriotic, but then you ask them when they are going to enlist, they change the subject. It's easy to wave the flag, if you don't have to worry about being shot at.

mick 7 years, 11 months ago

Bush lied his way into the invasion of Iraq for one reason only: so he could get elected in'04. If we can go to war for that then any war is possible. We dont't actually produce anything anymore and to maintain our standard of living which we feel entitled to we'll have to take it from others. Being the war=mongering nation is our future. Put your "have a happy war" ribbons back on your bumpers.

BigDog 7 years, 11 months ago

Those who serve now --- voluntarily --- that I've talked to don't want a draft. They don't want someone fighting next to them who was forced to be in the military.

If there was a draft, many young would probably leave the country today. Even if we were attacked by another country, the majority of the young today don't have the same sense of duty to their country.. most are too selfish.

deec 7 years, 11 months ago

Or maybe with access to more sources of information, they are unwilling to put their lives on the line for a bogus war.

BigDog 7 years, 11 months ago

deec --- I didn't say this war anywhere. i said most wouldn't fight even if another country attacked us.

deec 7 years, 11 months ago

I don't share your despair of the current young people. All my children considered the military, and rejected it due to our invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation.

JayCat_67 7 years, 11 months ago

I'd say the binge drinking, being an A-hole, and poor people coping skills are probably there well before a person joins the military. Many (note: i did not say "all" or even "most") of the guys I ran into in basic already had these fine qualities. The worst I got out of it was an education on the many creative ways to use the F-Bomb.

werekoala 7 years, 11 months ago

"Even if we were attacked by another country, the majority of the young today don't have the same sense of duty to their country.. most are too selfish."

I completely disagree. I think that if we woke up tomorrow with foreign troops on US soil, well, youd have to pity the occupation come day 3 or 4. We're smart, resourceful, and independent folk. And it's much easier to be the guerillas than it is to be the occupying force, just ask the insurgents in Iraq.

Anyway, I resent the conviction that this generation is worthless - most of the generations of the past have also been judged worthless by their own predecessors.

The problem we have today is that there's too much information floating around. Misdeeds can no longer be swept under the rug, and so you have an ongoing and abiding cynicism in the population. We don't believe in politicians, or in loudmouth propaganda artists. And if you're an older adult who's disappointed with the level of interest and involvement shown by todays youth, well, your generation is to blame. We've seen how you act, and how you hide corruption behind smooth words, and want none of it.

can you blame us?

BigDog 7 years, 11 months ago

The problem we have today is that there's too much information floating around. Misdeeds can no longer be swept under the rug, and so you have an ongoing and abiding cynicism in the population. We don't believe in politicians, or in loudmouth propaganda artists. And if you're an older adult who's disappointed with the level of interest and involvement shown by todays youth, well, your generation is to blame. We've seen how you act, and how you hide corruption behind smooth words, and want none of it.

can you blame us?


I guess it is easiest to blame it on someone else.

estespark 7 years, 11 months ago

Well said JayCat. Binge drinking, a-holes are born that way and NOT created in the Air Force.

I'll bet you have a "House Divided" license plate frame.

jonas 7 years, 11 months ago

Posted by BigDog (anonymous) on December 29, 2006 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess it is easiest to blame it on someone else."

and

"Posted by BigDog (anonymous) on December 29, 2006 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Even if we were attacked by another country, the majority of the young today don't have the same sense of duty to their country.. most are too selfish."

hmmmmm. . . . . . .

Redneckgal 7 years, 11 months ago

If you want to see Bush get thrown out of the White House and the US out of Iraq just let him breath the word draft just once. It will never happen. He is a lousy president but when it comes to politics he knows the game. Thats not to say it will never happen. The next poor sucker may well have to reinstate it to get us out of the mess he created. But it won't be happening on his watch. He will leave that stain to be on the next poor sap.

werekoala 7 years, 11 months ago

"I guess it is easiest to blame it on someone else."

Well, I said that I think most of the younger kids see through the BS generated by politicians, and that's why the don't get involved. You're going to blame kids who weren't even old enough to vote in 2000 for the failures of politicians?

But on further reflection, I have to say it's because by far, the biggest concern among most of the kids today is being accepted and getting laid. Just like it was in your day. And we can only hope that they grow out of this self-absorption to become the same sort of shallow, manipulative jerks who run things today.

Heck, I wish things were different. And I try to live my life to make a positive impact. But we need leaders with moral authority to galvanize the nation - and I just don't see that happening barring some world-shaking event.

Godot 7 years, 11 months ago

Werekola, I respect your point of view but I do not share your optimism that the majority of our youth would step up to defend our nation if foreign troops were to invade. Mexican troops have made incursions into the southwest, with no big outcry. The US is undergoing an invasion via the northern and southern borders. There is outcry by a few; defense of the invasion by the majority.

And we have no way of knowing if the invasion includes "foreign troops" because the troops of our sworn enemy, Al Qaeda, do not wear uniforms or swear allegiance to a country.

werekoala 7 years, 11 months ago

Godot:

We're being invaded? Please. Our borders are being crossed, sure, by illegal immigrants, and possibly by those who wish to do us harm. But calling it an "invasion" smacks of hysterical hand-wringing.

Now Normandy '44 - THAT was an invasion.

Heck, most people would do violence to stop a 9/11 or OKC, but since it's a covert op, they don't know about it and thus can't fight it effectively. Put a Chinese tank on Mass Street and you'd see quite a different response.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 11 months ago

innocuous_posts Obviously you have more right than anyone else to voice your opinion about the war, but there are a lot of young people who act all gung ho about the war, but they have no intention of going to fight that war. Even though I'm old, if there was a war that I felt was just, I would be doing whatever I could to fight it. I would definitely fight an invasion of our country within or without. You sound like if you were young enough, you would be fighting the war; because you seem to think it was the right thing to do. I grew up with the draft and I admire those who supported the war and volunteered (or allowed themselves to drafted) as much as I admire those who openly opposed the war and refused to be drafted. Both groups stood up for their principles. Those who just didn't want to be away from their keggers, so tried to avoid the draft were cowards. I hope there are young people who would do something if our country was invaded, or someone within declared themselves a dictator, but sometimes I think as long as they still had their toys (video games, computers, TV, etc), 3 meals a day, and a nice car, they wouldn't really care, maybe I'm just in a cynical mood today.

JayCat_67 7 years, 11 months ago

Nope. No house divided plate. Unless the house is my own noggin. Started at KU, got married and transferred to K-State with my wife (in-laws live in Lawrence) graduated from K-State. Moved back to lawrence and took more hours at KU. Played tuba in both marching bands. My wife seems to think I should do marching band again next fall. I could be the token old guy. If KU actually made a bowl game, it would be right around my 40th birthday. By golly, I'll teach them no-account young'ns to swing a tuba!!! ;-)

Godot 7 years, 11 months ago

"Put a Chinese tank on Mass Street and you'd see quite a different response."

Maybe. But the Chinese have not declared war on the US. Al Qaeda has. And Al Qaeda does not use tanks. Al Qaeda flies the planes of its enemies into buildings to kill enemy civilians.

This happened. It is history. Yet the vast majority of our youth do not see the need to join the fight; the vast majority fail to see that their country that provides them with the freedoms they take for granted to allow them to enojoy their way of life is under attack.

When and how will our youth be galvanized to stand against this enemy?

Kelly Powell 7 years, 11 months ago

If we were under constant terrorist violence(like israel) our youths would join up...As it is though, we are fortunent to have a safe enough envirement to have slacker chillins.....may it continue to be so.

jonas 7 years, 11 months ago

"Posted by Godot (anonymous) on December 29, 2006 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This happened. It is history. Yet the vast majority of our youth do not see the need to join the fight; the vast majority fail to see that their country that provides them with the freedoms they take for granted to allow them to enojoy their way of life is under attack.

When and how will our youth be galvanized to stand against this enemy?"

Maybe when there is proposed action that actually seems to have the potential to provide progress against or victory over that enemy?

We were attacked! Now let's go. . . FIGHT THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE!!!

Kelly Powell 7 years, 11 months ago

So the christians are calling for a crusade....just like the muslim clerics have been saying we are doing...the world was all for us in afghanistan, but we had to go to iraq.....let's not revise current history and start practising double speak.

Richard Heckler 7 years, 11 months ago

Neither the country of Afghanistan or Iraq attacked the USA and as far as anybody knows had any intentions or capablities of doing so. Iraq and Afghanistan were never a threat to the USA and were not involved. Neither country has had the military capability to take on the USA military. Iraq was under attack since day one of the "no fly zone" which effectively kept Saddam in check and actually all the mideast. Israel has 250 USA fighter jets within their boundaries and is considered the 4th largest nuclear power in the world.

Osama bin Laden is/was not a government official from any country. Neither were any of the criminals that allegedly flew the planes on 9/11/01. Therefore none of these individuals represented any country and they all died on 9/11/01. If Bush knew so damn much about these culprits how did they get by Bush,Rice,Cheney and Rumsfeld? How could 15 known terrorists and 4 large aircraft get by Bush,Cheney,Rice and Rumsfeld on a single day? Supposedly there were these terrorist cells all over the world according to Bush yet Bush chose indiscriminate bombing, destruction and killing of people in two countries who had nothing to do with the terrorist action.

So what may I ask gave President Bush the right to reduce countries to rubble and kill thousands upon thousands upon thousands of innocent mideastern family members as well as members our military? Because HIS administration dropped the ball which made him a fool and challenged his ego?

The Taliban was initially supported by Reagan/Bush and Iraq and Iran were receiving weapons from the same administration.

jonas 7 years, 11 months ago

"Posted by Godot (anonymous) on December 29, 2006 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WHERE????"

Somewhere where they LOOK like the people who attacked us!!!!!!!!!

Kelly Powell 7 years, 11 months ago

But the taliban was in cahoots with al qaida....that much info was true and we did the right thing there....up until we started pissing away troops and money into iraq.

Godot 7 years, 11 months ago

"posted by Godot (anonymous) on December 29, 2006 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WHERE????"

posted by jonas:

Somewhere where they LOOK like the people who attacked us!!!!!!!!!"

Posted by Godot:

That would be the US, Afghanistan, pakistan, Iraq, Iran, The UAE, Morrocco, Russia, lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Canada, England, France, Spain, Turkey...and many other places.

The point is that Al Qaeda are ubiquitous. What binds them together is not an allegiance to a nation; it is an allegiance to an ideology.

So, Jonas, if you were president, how would you protect our nation from this enemy who has vowed to see our destruction?

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