Bill would ban 'mercury vaccine' / LJWorld.com

Archive for Sunday, December 10, 2006

December 10, 2006

The first bill in the legislative hopper for the 2007 session is one near and dear to Lawrence's Linda Weinmaster and a number of parents across the state.

Senate Bill 1 would ban the use of mercury-based thimerosal in childhood vaccines.

"I'm somewhat optimistic that it will pass this session," Weinmaster said. "We're going to give it our best try."

Weinmaster and many others claim that thimerosal, which is used as a preservative in some vaccines, has caused the recent increase in the number of autistic children. Weinmaster's 15-year-old son, Adam, has several impairments that she attributes to vaccinations.

Federal officials maintain there is no association between the disorders and thimerosal. Critics, however, say the studies are flawed and note that mercury is a known toxin.

In recent years, thimerosal is being used less and less in vaccines, according to health officials. And at least six states have banned or are phasing out the use of thimerosal.

"If mercury is not a necessary element, I don't think we should have it in vaccinations," said Senate Democratic Leader Anthony Hensley, of Topeka, who has authored the bill.

During the 2006 legislative session, the bill didn't survive the crush of last-minute legislation.

Sen. Jim Barnett, R-Emporia, chairman of the committee that considered the measure, said he would be glad to take it up again.

"We will give it very careful and thorough consideration," Barnett said.

Discussion

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10 December 2006
at 4:34 a.m.

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Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…

The use of mercury in a vaccine is insane. Mercury is a known neurotoxin - an adult exposed to mercury is almost certain to have some form of neurological damage (if not death).
There is a reason that the “Mad Hatter” character in “Alice In Wonderland” was called “mad” - hat makers used to use mercury in the process of making hats. This caused them to have short lives and many different health problems due to the exposure to mercury. Many of health problems consisted of “nervous” muscle tics, vision problems, and speech difficultly.
10 December 2006
at 4:42 a.m.

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lubyloo (Anonymous) says…

Here's one some info from a credible source on this topic. From the American Academy of Pediatrics: “No scientific data link thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines with any pediatric neurologic disorder, including autism.” I hope that Sen. Barnett and his colleagues do give this bill very thoughtful consideration.

http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may…
10 December 2006
at 7:43 a.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Dracul, the mercury has to be “metylized” or oxidized to be taken up in the in the human body. The “madhatters”, were poisioned from solvents “mehtylizing” AND the heat which volitalized the Mercury.

Thimerosal banning by some well meaning menbers of a backward legislature may not be the answer. Have they offset this increase in autism, with the increase in Childhood mortalitity form the diseases? Remember too that it has been used for a long time, and just now the autism rate is creeping up?

Kansas if you remember has a childhood mortality rate that is much higher than the national average. I think they need to check out other things of consequence rahter than this. Remember we have a lot in this legislature that clings to “Intelligent Design” as a viable option fo science.

So here we have a legislator that has an autistic child and she believes it is from the thimerasol? ANd now she wants to pass a ban on it. Pass a law for the narrow prupose of her child? Conflict of Interest if you ask me. Yes I feel for her. But the link for thimerasol and autism is simply not proven.

This is a feel good do nothing law, because thimerasol use is tapering off for better perservatives. A law that does not need to exist.
10 December 2006
at 8:48 a.m.

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oldgoof (Anonymous) says…

I'm sorry…given the choice between believing KS legislators & Linda vs groups like the National Academy of Sciences and the Inst. of Medicine, I choose the latter.
10 December 2006
at 9:18 a.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

The key phrase here is “mercury based.” The preservative is NOT just plain old mercury, as in the stuff found in old glass thermometers that everyone knows is dangerous. Let science rule the day here. There is no connection between thimerasol and autism.
10 December 2006
at 9:36 a.m.

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Bubarubu (Anonymous) says…

Is this a “feel-good” law? Sure it is. Most childhood vaccines never contained thimerosal and its use is being phased out. However, if parents think there is a link between thimerosal and autism, that makes them less likely to get their children immunized properly, which presents a public health problem. Given the limited value of thimerosal and limited direct impact of the law, if it makes certain parents more likely to immunize their kids, is it really something to oppose? Worst case scenario, the state bans the use of a preservative that is already being replaced and there is no effect whatsoever.
10 December 2006
at 9:50 a.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Worst case scenario is that some vaccines will not be available to Kansas kids during the period when thimerosal has not been replaced. The Kansas Legislature should stay out of this and allow Kansas parents and their pediatricians to choose what is best for their kids.

10 December 2006
at 10:41 a.m.

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KarenMcD (Anonymous) says…

Lubyloo, The AAP is hardly credible. In July of 1999 they called for the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, in a joint statement with the CDC. They now actively fight state legislation to ban thimerosal, and encourage their members to do the same.

Spend a little time investigating the AAP's benefactors and you will understand their motives. They certainly aren't looking out for the well being of American Children.
10 December 2006
at 10:46 a.m.

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KarenMcD (Anonymous) says…

A 3 year Congressional Subcommittee Investigation into the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines and autism concluded the following: “Mercury is hazardous to humans. Its use in medicinal products is undesirable, unnecessary and should be minimized or eliminated entirely. Manufacturers of vaccines and thimerosal, (an ethlymercury compound used in vaccines), have never conducted adequate testing on the safety of thimerosal. The FDA has never required manufacturers to conduct adequate safety testing on thimerosal and ethlymercury compounds…Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is likely related to the autism epidemic. This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding injected thimerosal and the sharp rise of infant exposure to this known neurotoxin. Our public health agencies' failure to act is indicative of institutional malfeasance for self-protection and misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry” ( Mercury in Medicine - Taking Unnecessary Risks
Congressional Record - Extensions of Remarks
Congressman Dan Burton (R-IN), Committee on Government Reform
May 21, 2003)
10 December 2006
at 11:48 a.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

As far as I can tell the Congressman Dan Burton never earned a college degree. From his website, “Dan Burton was born on June 21, 1938, in Indianapolis, Indiana. He graduated from Shortridge High School in 1957, and attended Indiana University and the Cincinnati Bible Seminary. Congressman Burton received the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Humanities from Capitol University of Integrative Medicine on December 17, 2000.”
http://www.house.gov/burton/dan.htm

There is no indication the Congressman graduated from a University nor the Bible Seminary and apparently his only degree is Honorary. Despite his beliefs, no matter how sincere, it is as likely that any rise in autism and use of thimerosal are unrelated. Just because the two happened around the same time is NOT proof there is a causal relationship between the two. We call such events coincidence.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, is Latin for “after this, therefore because of this”, and is a logical fallacy which assumes or asserts that if one event happens after another, then the first must be the cause of the second. For instance, ice cream sales elevate greatly each summer, the number of common colds is lower each summer, therefore higher ice cream consumption cures the common cold.

Up to birth women in Kansas are given the choice to abort their babies, but after birth we want to remove the choice of those same women and their Doctors to choose what Federally approved vaccines to give their children? And we would do that on the word of Indiana Congressman Dan Burton?

This reminds me of Indiana Pi Bill. In 1897, the Indiana General Assembly passed a bill from which it could be deduced that pi was equal to 3.2 or other incorrect values and it came close to passing!

http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Loca…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_…
10 December 2006
at 12:13 p.m.

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Jamesaust (Anonymous) says…

I was going to stay out of this sillyness but then saw:
“A 3 year Congressional Subcommittee Investigation into the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines and autism concluded the following: “Mercury is….”

That's a lie and the lie even admits that its a lie. No Congressional Subcommittee concluded any such thing. Rather, a single member insisted on stating such. That member knows no more than the random boob on the street.

If thimerosal caused autistism then one would expect that the removal of it would lead to fewer diagnosis of autistism. Removal, where it has occurred, does NOT and one may safely conclude the linkage does NOT exist - something one could have predicted by the comparison of the general neurological symptoms of mercury poisoning with the particularlized and specific characteristics of autism. As I've said before, its like claiming that immersing your electronic keyboard into water won't short-out all the keys but only the letter “A”.
10 December 2006
at 12:23 p.m.

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TeresaConrick (Anonymous) says…

The removal of a toxic ingredient, thimerosal, is a good thing. Reading comments supporting its use or denying that it is a neurotoxin shows little understanding of the science.

Here is a letter from Rep. Dave Weldon, M. D. to Sec. Leavitt regarding thimerosal. Excerpt below:
http://tinyurl.com/yjacwe

Dear Secretary Leavitt,
I want to bring to your attention an important NIH-funded study that was published online today in the
journal of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), Environmental Health
Perspectives, entitled “Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to
Methylmercury or Vaccines containing Thimerosal.” This study was funded through a direct contract with
NIEHS and has yielded important information that challenges many of the assumptions used to formulate
national public health policy regarding mercury in vaccines, including the potential risk to infants.
In this study, Thomas Burbacher and Thomas Clarkson, two of the leading experts in mercury toxicology
and analysis, along with their colleagues, present new data describing how non-human primates handle
different forms of mercury. Their results also highlight how much we still do not know about the potential
dangers of this mercury-based preservative that is still used in most childhood flu vaccines and many
vaccines administered in developing countries.
This striking absence of basic toxicological information about a compound that has been injected into
millions of infants led NIEHS to contract with Burbacher and his colleagues to investigate some of these
basic questions. In this study, Burbacher and his colleagues show that more inorganic mercury
accumulates in the brain after thimerosal exposure through injection than after exposure to
methylmercury in food. The accumulation of mercury in the brain after injection with thimerosal occurred
even though ethylmercury is cleared from the blood faster than methylmercury.

The complete study is here:
http://www.safeminds.org/research/lib…

Teresa Conrick
Board Member A-CHAMP
Advocates for Children's Health
Affected by Mercury Poisoning
10 December 2006
at 12:45 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“Teresa Conrick
Board Member A-CHAMP
Advocates for Children's Health
Affected by Mercury Poisoning”

ANd we are just supposed to accept the fact that you are right and objective in this. gimme a break!

IF thimerasol cause autism, we would have had an “outbreak” much earlier, because more vaccines were perserved with thimerasol than there are now. And we had fewer cases of autism. SO as timerasol use decreases, we have an increase of autism. maybe it is the replacement perservative!! Didn't think abou that one did you?

SO a question. WHAT vaccine is thimerasol used in currently?

We know about the impacts of mercury in the environment causes, but ethyl mercury is extremely stable, that is why it is used. ANd it is used at a very miniscule amount. NOthing near all the histerics you just posted here. Those illustrations of the neurotoxin are true… at much higher concentrations.

When a child has a chance of death, a vaccine is an acceptable risk. We simply cannot protect against all risks.
10 December 2006
at 12:56 p.m.

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TeresaConrick (Anonymous) says…

Mr/Ms Asbestos…interesting name,

You can check all you want on the science..no hysterics are included, only yours.

Objective is what is needed here. Science and facts is what this discussion is about. Where are your facts from?
10 December 2006
at 1:01 p.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Interesting study as much for what it did NOT say as for what it says. What I did not find was any relationship between thimerosal and autism. Nor did I see any risk benefit analysis comparing the risk of thimerosal compared to the benefit of the vaccines. Calling a thimerosal “toxic” is misleading at best. Most every drug I am aware of is toxic in sufficient amounts and carries some degree of risk.

But all of this discussion misses the point. Do we want politicians to remove the choice of parents and their pediatricians to make informed decisions about the risk versus rewards of the potential (not proven by any means) dangers of thimerosal preserved vaccines against the PROVEN benefits of those vaccines to their children?

10 December 2006
at 1:13 p.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Ms. Conrick, as you are obviously unfamiliar with this site and those that post here, you might be mislead by the name asbestos or Sigmund for that matter.

I am not the Austrian neurologist and the co-founder of the psychoanalytic school of psychology, and asbestos is not pro-inhalation of fibrous minerals. Your credibility is not enhanced by use of ad hominem attacks.

Goodbye and good luck.
10 December 2006
at 1:19 p.m.

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alm77 (Anonymous) says…

Bubarubu, excellent post. This thread should have ended there, as you have summed up the most logical conclusion.
10 December 2006
at 1:20 p.m.

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TeresaConrick (Anonymous) says…

“informed decisions about the risk versus rewards ”

Like leaded vs unleaded gas, it is an issue of health. You are not given a choice on buying for example, paint with lead..it is banned. No one is removing vaccines. It is the ingredients that are being banned.

Why does the issue of making a product safer produce such negative emotions?
10 December 2006
at 1:26 p.m.

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Bubarubu (Anonymous) says…

Thimerosal is being phased out already, so there's no real risk that kids won't have access to any recommended vaccines. Since 2000, the FDA has requested that thimerosal be replaced as a preservative and has required vaccine makers to justify maintaining it in their vaccines.

As of last month, a thimerosal-free alternative was available for every recommended vaccine except diptheria and tetanus. http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thime…

The benefits of vaccines are clear. If the perceived threat from thimerosal prevents people from getting their kids vaccinated, and banning thimerosal has no negative impact on the availability of vaccines, why not do it?
10 December 2006
at 1:40 p.m.

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Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

I have no problem with phasing out thimerosal and to the extent that it is being phased out then this bill is unnecessary.

However, the vaccines for diptheria and tetanus have a proven effectiveness and benefit, while the risk of thimerosal is still highly speculative. Let parents and physicians, not politicians, make informed decision about the risks and rewards of thimerosal preserved vaccines for their kids.

By the way, far from being banned asbestos is still used in brake shoes and gaskets for its heat resistance.
10 December 2006
at 2:26 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“By the way, far from being banned asbestos is still used in brake shoes and gaskets for its heat resistance.”

Thank YOU Sigmund, in fact the ban was reversed. It is just that we do not produce as many asbestos containing materials in the US as we used to,… we just exported the production and import the products.

The UN DOL reports that 2.2 million people die a year from asbestos related illness and injury, and it is growing exponentially.

You need to get your risks in perspective with the risk benefit and the benefit of banning. If it is not beneficial to ban asbestos, then wy get your panties in a bunch over thimerasol?
10 December 2006
at 3:19 p.m.

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ksmom (Anonymous) says…

Autism is an Organic Brain disorder determined at conception. The reason Autism is so prevelent is because Drs. are not giving correct diagnosis. According to the DSM-IV, the diagnosis of Autism must stand alone with no other disorder. However, children are being diagnosed with Autism as well as a host of other diagnosis. People, if your child has ANY other disorder, then AUTISM must be ruled out. Just because symptoms of one disorder mimic another, does not justify the diagnosis of Autism. Autism is not caused by anything other than some organic (natural) occurring mixup in genetics.
10 December 2006
at 3:26 p.m.

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Mom23angels (Anonymous) says…

I have no doubt that Thimerasol is vaccines is the cause for the autism epidemic, as well as the drastic increase in allergies, asthma, add, adhd, diabetes, speech delays, learning disabilities etc…

My two boys literally regressed overnight into autism after receiving several vaccines at one of their “well child visits” to the pediatrician's office. One day they were healthy toddlers, meeting milestones, and thensome. The next day they were gone. It's quite apparent that the vaccines are responsible for this…all of sudden pupils are dilated 24/7, they loose all their words and resort to constant screaming and tantruming, major sensory issues (ie. trying to get them to touch a leaf and they scream and fight you as if you are trying to kill them), stop playing with toys appropriately (ie spinning wheels on trucks), constant diarrhea, walking the perimeter of the back yard over and over intead of playing, constant night wakening, suddenly self limiting their diets, loss of all eye contact, screaming and covering their ears when I would vacuum or use the blow dryer. The list goes on and on, but honestly there wouldn't be enough room to write it all. All of the above mentioned things occured after receiving several vaccines at the ped's office. So it's quite clear that it what caused it.

I have been treating my boys biomedically to get all the toxic metals and viruses out of their bodies, and they have made so much progress. I know it's from getting the metals out, their lab tests prove this.

In fact, one of my son's became severely autistic when he regressed. And today he is in a mainstream first grade class. Prior to this he was in an autism class. And his autism teacher was so amazed at the progress my son had made that she asked me to tell her what we have done biomedically. She has been working with autistic kids for 20 yrs. and has never seen anyone progress like this. Oh, and by the way we don't do ot, st, aba, this progress is from biomedical/chelation alone.

I also have a Grandmother in law that starting getting flu shots several years ago. Coincidentally she started getting early dementia at this same time. And now, after getting flu shots for several years in a row she has pretty severe alzheimer's disease (aka she has been poisoned from the mercury and aluminum in the flu shots).

People can say and think what they want regarding this topic, but the fact is vaccines are very, very, very harmful to our immune systems. And anyone that does any research on this will realize this. It's is very evident.

Sincerely,

Michelle RDH

10 December 2006
at 3:32 p.m.

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Bubarubu (Anonymous) says…

Sigmund, I entirely agree that the bill would do nothing of substance. The problem is that there are parents who object to vaccination requirements and evade those requirements because they wrongly believe it puts their children at risk. Banning thimerosal would change nothing about the vaccines but it would give parents one less reason not to get their kids vaccinated. Where's the downside?
10 December 2006
at 3:35 p.m.

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imastinker (Anonymous) says…

I know little about medicine - but a few things pop into my head reading this.

1) WHo are the people saying Thimerasol are bad? Look like people with no medical background to me.

2) Chlorine is bad. Drinking it can kill you. Sodium probably isn't too good for you either, but I don't hear people complaining about table salt.
10 December 2006
at 3:46 p.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

Nothing is apparent from purely anecdotal evidence. No one “regresses” into autism. There is NO evidence of thimerasol causing speech problems, and I have the relevant degrees to speak with authority on that subject.
It is not unusual for children with pervasive developmental disorders to appear to be progressing normally and then suddenly have readily apparent problems. There isn't enough Thimerasol in a normal round of vaccines to cause anything like you were describing. When you say “I am treating the children biomedially to get the toxic metals and viruses out of their bodies” you are revealing a lot. First, you are blaming a shot, but then referring to toxic metals in the plural form, as though they built up toxic levels of several toxic metals from shots, which is ludicrous. Then you blame the shot for viruses, which is even more ludicrous. Then you go on to suggest flu shots cause dementia! I'm sorry, truly, for your many problems, but scouring the internet for psuedo-science and working with people willing to take your money for psuedo-medical treatment isn't helping anyone. I fail to see how the HUGE body of evidence in peer reviewed journals by impartial researchers is outweighed by andecdotal “evidence” and articles that can only be published because there are no restrictions on the internet. It does NO ONE any good to spread misinformation and pretend that these issues are a matter of common sense and that all the scientists just happen to be wrong.
10 December 2006
at 5:20 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Well put KU grad, that is high praise coming from KSU grad.
10 December 2006
at 5:37 p.m.

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budwhysir (Anonymous) says…

With all of the coal burning plants in america, how can we be sure that some of the problems are not coming from poor air quality in designated areas.

We should turn our attentions to wind farms and solar power energy sources.
10 December 2006
at 5:46 p.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

I think it is also relevant to point out that the prevalence of autism is not lower in countries where thimerosal is not used in vaccinations and that this data has been reported in peer reviewed journals. Ask your physician.
10 December 2006
at 6:02 p.m.

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Mom23angels (Anonymous) says…

Kugrad,
Your post is full of false information. You said that no one regresses into autism. That is blatently false. Thousands of children have regressed into autism after getting injecting with POISON from vaccines. If you choose to believe otherwise that is your problem. But I, and thousands of other parents saw it happen to our children. There is no mistaking it.

You also stated that you have relevant degrees to speak with authority. This means nothing. I don't care how many degrees someone has, that doesn't mean they know everything. I have a degree as well, however, I don't claim to know everything. However, I do know what happened to my boys, and to thousands of other innocent children. One doesn't have to have several degrees to figure it out.

You state there is no evidence of thimerasol causing speech problems, wrong again. It has been proven that mercury causes speech problems as well as the numerous other problems I listed in my previous post.

You state that it is not unusual for children with pervasive developmental disorder to appear to be progressing normally and then suddenly have readily apparent problems. I will explain this so you know why. When the problems become apparent it is because the child's toxic load has gotten to a point where enormous damage has been caused.

From reading your post I can see that you are very ignorant regarding vaccines causing autism. If you educated yourself regarding the methylation system you would know that the mercury in vaccines injures the methylation system, and you would also know that this system is critical for detoxing. So if you now have an injured methylation system from the mercury in vaccines you are not able to detox various metals that you come in contact with on a daily basis…ie. antimony which is in bedding, carpet, car seats etc…as a flame retardant, lead which is found in all electrical cords, christmas lights etc…, aluminum which is found in food, vaccines etc…viruses from vaccines and otherwise. NOTE: This explains why so many of the kids who were injured from vaccines have elevated antibodies to viruses they were vaccinated with…ie. my son had very elevated measles antibodies and wouldn't ya know it he never had the measles, just the vaccine.

Also, I don't need you feeling sorry for me. I didn't post so that I could get people's pity. I posted so that I could help other children that have been vaccine injured. So that parents of children on the autism spectrum would know that there are biomedical treatments/chelation options to help their children get healthier, like they were prior to being injured from the vaccines. My life is wonderful, I am getting my boys back. They are getting healthier and recovering from the vaccine damage that was done to them. And by the Grace of God they will completely recover from the damage that was done to them.

Michelle
10 December 2006
at 6:09 p.m.

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Mom23angels (Anonymous) says…

Budwhysir,

You are correct about the coal burning power plants. Unfortunately, we have a president that doesn't seem to care about this issue. This is a whole other topic itself.

However, there is no comparison with inhaling mercury from the air vs. having it injected into your blood stream.
Injecting mercury into the bloodstream on purpose is just plain sickening.

Michelle

10 December 2006
at 6:51 p.m.

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sandersen (Anonymous) says…

My youngest son had an allergic reaction to thimerosal in his MMR shot at 12 months of age and had to be hospitalized. He had subsequent allergic reactions to IM rocephin injections, in which the allergen was determined to be thimerosal preservative. There is absolutely no medical history in our family or in our other four children of autism or spectrum disorders, but within a few months of the allergic reactions, our little boy, whom had been well ahead of all developmental milestones and was extremely strong with both his expressive speech skills and his apparent cognitive abilities, began headbanging, high-pitched keening, severe sensory difficulties, and speed-speak. It has been a long and difficult journey for our tightly-knit family of seven. The stress of trying to find answers, as well as resources to help our little boy is truly a painful, challenging and uniquely rewarding endeavor.

I am not a doctor, merely a mother who has first hand experience on this subject. However, I met with respected experts across the country in search of information, and I can say with confidence that there are many renowned experts on autism and spectrum disorders, such as Rebecca Landau at Kennedy Krieger Institute and many individual pediatricians and pediatric neurologists (such as those at Nemours, Arnold Palmer Children's Hospital, Children's Mercy, etc.) who believe there is a very real possible connection between thimerosal and autism/spectrum disorders. They also believe that some people are more prone to be sensitized /allergic to thimerosal and/or mercury components, which could explain the fact that not every child immunized would have problems.

At the request of the specialists who have worked with our son, we have not allowed any thimerosal-preserved antibiotics or immunizations to be given to our son or any of our other children. We have also participated in a number of longitudinal autism and sibling studies.

After following their recommendations, working hard with Infant and Toddler services and a multitude of specialists, developing and implementing an IEP, trying to desensitize him to normal sensory and social situations, our son is in kindergarten, reads, and is participating in gifted enrichment activities. We are lucky- there are many children who continue the struggle throughout their lives.

I am not here to profess omnipotent knowledge on this subject, but this is simply not as cut and dried as some of these posts suggest. For every study or claim made that thimerosal is harmless, there is another that finds the opposite.

I truly believe, however that there is no reason to fear banning its use in inject-ables, as there are no studies I am aware of that show it to be beneficial in the human body, and there are many reasons to question its safety.
10 December 2006
at 7:43 p.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

Michelle, I wasn't attacking you personally. Clearly you are so emotionally involved that reason doesn't mean anything to you. A degree is not meaningless, and certainly qualifies one to speak knowledgably about topics within one's scope of expertise. Children are born autistic; they don't “regress into autism.” No one's speech and language skills regress due to flu shots; there is not one speck of evidence to suggest that this is true in the professional literature of speech and language studies.
You are correct, Mercury poisoning would cause speech problems. However, the literature on Mercury poisoning is referring to Mercury, the element, not Thimerasol, which is a different substance and not identical. Also, there is an insufficient amount in a vaccine to cause any Mercury poisoning (or in this case, Thimerasol poisoning). Just because misinformation is repeated over and over does not make it suddenly true.
I am not ignorant on the topic as you suggest, I just believe that you either misunderstand the science behind what you are saying or don't care to understand it because you gain something from the belief in the psuedo-science you embrace. You are simply spreading the net too wide here, claiming that alzheimers, and now pervasive developmental disorder, along with autism, are all caused by metals - first in vaccines, then from environmental sources. This is just wrong, but I am getting the impression all the evidence in the world would never persuade you to abandon a belief you hold dear, too dear to let reason interfere.
Nothing you have said explains why virtually all pediatricians disagree with you, nor why the scientific community has not published findings that support your claims in peer-reviewed independent journals. You also do not explain why autism prevelance rates are the same in counties where the vaccine does not contain
Thimerasol. I haven't looked this up, but I imagine rates of dementia and alzheimers (not the exact same thing) are consistent worldwide. I can tell you for fact that the incidence of speech and language impairments is the same worldwide, with no effect for vaccination rates. Your argument is based on emotion more than science.
10 December 2006
at 8:05 p.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

Sanderson writes “For every study or claim made that thimerosal is harmless, there is another that finds the opposite.”
In my opinion, this statement is a cop-out. It isn't true. Count the studies and see. There is not a parity between the studies showing thimerosal to be harmless and those showing the opposite. In fact, there are no studies showing that thimerosal in the levels found in vaccines is harmful. It is easy to fall back on the old “there are studies showing anything you want them to say” rhetoric, but that is simply not true.
That being said, Sanderson makes a good point, and that is that the issue is not as cut and dry as “some posts” [including mine] might make it appear. There is certainly reason to investigate the connection more, but the evidence does not exist now. There is considerable evidence that Thimerasol is not behind autism, not the least of which is that there have been autistic people long before the stuff was even invented. I don't want to suggest that Thimerasol is an essential ingredient in vaccines, nor that this should not be a topic of great scientific scrutiny. Yet the fact remains that it already IS the subject of intense scrutiny and the science does not support the beliefs of those who are focused on vaccines as the cause.
I will admit that I am skeptical that the preservative in a vaccine was actually identified as the cause of an allergic reaction, particularly since I believe that would require testing Thimerasol specifically as an allergen and I doubt any insurance company would pay for that, certainly not mine. However, I'm willing to take you on your word for this info., which I find to be interesting.
I do want to point out that there are few rock-solid 1 year expressive language milestones as children vary tremendously in what they accomplish by this point. Since those with autism are often quite intelligent, cognitive milestones could be on target with any child with autism. In my professional experience working with children with autism (which admittedly is not my specialty, but I still have a great deal of experience in this area) I have found that it is not unusual for autism to go undetected during the first year of life or even longer. I've known children who seemed to develop autism after an illness and after other possible atecedents. There are almost undoubtably genetic factors at play, but what causes the expression of these genes is not clear. I do not personally rule out the possibility that Thimerasol will some day be shown to trigger the expression of (a) gene(s) in some people, I am just saying it hasn't happened yet. There is strong evidence to suggest that it is, in fact, not related, so I predict other investigations will be more fruitful.
I appreciated the reasoned tone of Sanderson post. Thanks for reminding me to remember to try to temper my remarks as well. Failing to do so is a bad habit I wish I could blame on something besides myself!@
10 December 2006
at 8:11 p.m.

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sandersen (Anonymous) says…

Do you truly know all the pediatricians and specialists who deal with this subject?

I am not trying to be coy, however, peer-reviewed journals and experts in the field of autism and autistic spectrum disorders report regression and skill loss as common among those eventually diagnosed with autism/spectrum disorders. Questions relating to these very occurrences are on virtually every developmental questionnaire we as parents have ever filled out for the many specialists whom have seen or worked with our son. Ask Betty Bunce, director of the LAP (Language Acquisition Program) program at KU, about the incidence of regression and skill loss in children who are autistic or have autistic spectrum disorders, as she works with kids like this every day. Call Rebecca Landau, a world-renowned autism specialist and researcher at Kennedy Krieger in Baltimore, and ask her whether or not this regression occurs. I can assure you it does, is extremely common and verifiable.

I have no idea what your degree is in, but I can assure you after consulting with respected experts in this field, the jury is decidedly still out on the safety of thimerosal in inject-ables for those with allergy/sensitivity. There is simply no reason to continue using it as a preservative when there is even a slight risk of such negative consequences and no proof of physical benefit to the human body.
10 December 2006
at 8:38 p.m.

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sandersen (Anonymous) says…

They at first thought he had the measles. We were at Arnold Palmer in Orlando, and a specialist from Nemours came to consult, since incidents of measles from vaccination are fairly rare and he was very sick. They ran a ton of tests and blood work while he was hospitalized and determined an allergic reaction to thimerosal the culprit. Unfortunately, I was not aware that there was thimerosal in the IM rocephin he received 3 months later, and he proceeded to have another allergic reaction to, which after the allergy/immunology dust cleared, was once again determined to be thimerosal as the allergen.(They tested him for cephalosporins, lidocaine, etc.)

I understand you view in regards to speech milestones, and I can fully appreciate you skepticism in regards to a causal link between thimerosal and autism. I do wish to state that as a mother of five ranging from 16-3 years, I feel I have a relatively accurate view of child development issues, and can assure you he was rather advanced developmentally prior to his regression. However, I hope that you will at least keep an open mind about the latent possibility of new findings coming to light, and understand that there are many affected families and specialists in the medical community who have deep concerns about the effects of thimerosal in injectable medicines and vaccines. This is not a subject where there is universal agreement, and I can appreciate that. Notwithstanding, I would prefer to err on the side of safety if it means even one child and their family are spared the agony of dealing with autism or a spectrum disorder.
10 December 2006
at 8:48 p.m.

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TeresaConrick (Anonymous) says…

kugrad writes-

“No one “regresses” into autism”

Home videos suggest regression occurs in some autistic children

http
://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=28494
10 December 2006
at 9:09 p.m.

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melott (Anonymous) says…

The people behind this would be well-advised to put their energy into stopping coal-fired power plants to our west. Burning coal emits large amounts of mercury, which can be metabolized.

However, they need someone to blame for their children's problems.

I hope some day they are judged for all the people who die from flu or other diseases who were not vaccinated, or who did not do it because of the increased expense.
10 December 2006
at 9:14 p.m.

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cojhawx (Anonymous) says…

dear kugrad - i will ask you to refrain from your “scientific evidence” and think as a parent. my 8 year old is autistic. he regressed at 18 1/2 months, whether you like to think this happens or not. this occured after his mmr. i lived with him. you did not. the problem with this is that science will never admit to causing such a problem. thimerosal is not needed. unfortunately, many multi-dose vials contains it - like the flu vaccines.
by the way, you can also keep your snide comments about “degrees” to yourself. i am a pharm d. please don't tell me i should know better - you, kugrad, should know better. i have a study with an “n” of one… but, in this case, it is an incredibly important one.

10 December 2006
at 9:29 p.m.

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sandersen (Anonymous) says…

Mellott-

I don't need “someone” to blame for my child's problems. I find your snide comment disingenuous and purposely divisive. It does nothing to elevate the discussion nor to enlighten.
10 December 2006
at 9:51 p.m.

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Informed (Anonymous) says…

Melott, you are such a pompus, disingenuious @$$.
10 December 2006
at 10:51 p.m.

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Informed (Anonymous) says…

Oops, that should be 'pompous' and 'disingenuous'. My fingers don't seem to be working all that well tonight.
10 December 2006
at 11:05 p.m.

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TeresaConrick (Anonymous) says…

Melott-

“Are US flu death figures more PR than science?”

……”CDC states that the historic 1968-9 “Hong Kong flu” pandemic killed 34 000 Americans. At the same time, CDC claims 36 000 Americans annually die from flu. What is going on?”…….

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/3…
11 December 2006
at 12:04 a.m.

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adala60 (Anonymous) says…

I think those with their fancy college degrees are full of themselves and need to be able to scrutinize their own professions. When you aren't able to scrutinize your own profession, then you become dangerous. We need them to take a look at the unvaccinated populations in this country and around the world and ask themselves, why is there no autism in the unvaccinated populations including, but not limited to, the Amish. All mainstream medicine does these days is push pills and vaccines, forget about curing diseases naturally. Many a doctor has messed me up and since I quit going to them I feel better and I have more money in the bank. If you want to stay well, find yourself a holistic practitioner or chiropractor and stay far, far, away from dangerous pharmaceutical drugs.
11 December 2006
at 1:23 a.m.

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Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…

Interesting fact : everything on the earth is toxic.
–— You just need the correct amount to MAKE it toxic.
Another fact: Allergic reactions KILL hundreds (if not thousands) in the US every year.
I am allergic to a very common depressant - but my reaction is delayed while it builds up in my system. The reaction I have is very similar to the symptoms many addicts (of the same drug) display after YEARS of exposure (or over-exposure).
I am just saying that to use even a derivative of a highly toxic substance (like mercury) as a preservative in something given to a child is somewhat risky.

As to this being a “feel good” law I agree.
But - would you rather our representatives spend more time on the next version of the scopes monkey trial?

P.S.:
Definition of PhD - Piled Higher and Deeper.
11 December 2006
at 1:30 a.m.

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Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…

Sorry bout that post-script, but I only use that for doctors and professors who tend to think a little too much of themselves just because they have a little piece of paper saying they took 4,6,or 8 years studying what I and many others went out and did.
11 December 2006
at 1:52 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Mellott is correct and his comments are in no way “snide” but rather ironically accurate.

Thanks.

Marion.

11 December 2006
at 8:13 a.m.

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Informed (Anonymous) says…

No, Marion, melott is not correct. I don't believe that this bill will be/is an attempt to place blame. It's an attempt (however misguided) to see that others are not victims of autism.

However, since the evidence of a connection between thimerosal and a rise in incidences of autism is anecdotal, the bill itself is an unnecessary waste of time and money.
11 December 2006
at 8:33 a.m.

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budwhysir (Anonymous) says…

Marion I am very much in the dark on this subject, do you know much about it????

I do know that when I need medicine, I am to busy adding the zeros in my check book to worry about how they are making medicine now adays. The amount of money I pay, I should get safe medicines that work

We should start a grass roots effort to increase the tax levee for investigating lower prices for medicines that ordinary people in Lawrence might need
They could also find out how much all day kindergarten costs
11 December 2006
at 9:39 a.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

asbestos: “Thimerosal banning by some well meaning menbers of a backward legislature may not be the answer. ”

It may not help with autism. And it may. It may help with lots of ailments. But it may not. However, mercury is a known toxin. There are alternatives. Banning it will not hurt. Why would it be wasteful to stop injecting a known harmful substance?

“This is a feel good do nothing law, because thimerasol use is tapering off for better perservatives.”

The problem is why is it “tapering off” instead of being stopped? Failure to ban it just fuels the conspiracy theories. Theories that they don't want to stop it as autism rates would drastically fall. Why not ban mercury vaccines and prove them wrong?! What benefit is there to continue using mercury? I know one reason is so the Pharm companies can still make money off their current supplies.

“maybe it is the replacement perservative!! Didn't think abou that one did you?”

Actually, I have. I think they use some sort of phenol- which could also be bad. The benefit is that carbon compounds can be broken down to non-toxic carbon. Mercury is toxic at it's most elemental unit.

“SO a question. WHAT vaccine is thimerasol used in currently?”

I've been told, Flu vaccine and adult vaccines. (Don't really care much for those adults - they can take more poison before noticing the symptoms).

imastinker: “2) Chlorine is bad. Drinking it can kill you. Sodium probably isn't too good for you either, but I don't hear people complaining about table salt.”

Yes, but there is a benefit to using Chlorine. Would you have us using mercury to purify water? People are complaining and reducing use of table salt.

A question to ask yourself, what are safe levels to consume salt and chlorine, and what are safe levels of mercury?
11 December 2006
at 11:51 a.m.

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JamS (Anonymous) says…

Do not trust anyone who says, “there is no proof that the small amounts of mercury used in vaccines are harmful to children.” First of all, the '90's infants received 187.5 mcg. of mercury by six months of age. A newborn would have had to weigh almost 300 pounds for the 12.5 mcg. of mercury in the Hep B to be safe according to the EPA. And secondly, every scientific study EVER conducted implicates mercury in neurological damage. (Duh!) The UC Davis study demonstrated immune system damage as well, which explains the tremendous amount of health issues among the '90's children. Thirdly, as unbelievable as it is, there has never been a study proving it safe to vaccinate infants. Mady Hornig from Columbia University did a study on infant mice including the per ratio of thimerosal and 33% displayed behavioral disorders!
The vaccine scenario is not what it appears. Initially, some good scientists had a heartfelt desire to help eradicate disease. Over time, throwing caution to the wind, the greedy money-mongers took control and now they don't want to fess up to the damage that occurred to the '90's children. World wide - trillions$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. These children were mercury-poisoned and the more you slice it and dice it, the more evident it will become.
Veterinarians quit using vaccines with thimerosal in 1991 because it was making their cows rowdy and unmanageable. If the CDC and vaccine manufacturers would have discontinued the use of thimerosal in '92 when they first suspected the connection, I could forgive them for an honest mistake. But they allowed it to continue for ten more years !
11 December 2006
at 11:54 a.m.

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autismdad (Anonymous) says…

My first argument for removing mercury from vaccines is my own personal experience: My son was normal until he received a flu shot containing Thimerasol at the age of 18 months and he immediately slipped into an autistic state. Until that point my son had also received many Thimerasol containing vaccines that injected my son with anywhere (per shot) from 36x to 166x the Federal Standard for what is “SAFE”. I would dare ANY naysayer to be injected with the mercury containing Thimerasol at the levels (36X to 166X the recommended dosage, but for adults in your case, and get it multiple times) my son was exposed to. Any takers? I didn't think so. I have heard from and talked with many other parents of autistic children that experienced regressive autism and their experiences were very much like my sons.

In order to avoid liability there are very powerful forces, like the pharmaceutical companies that make vaccines, trying to downplay mercury's toxicity. However, our own federal government has recognized the potential harm from mercury in medicine. An excerpt from the Mercury in Medicine report from the Committee on Government Reform, U.S. House of Representatives is very inciteful:

“Mercury is hazardous to humans. Its use in medicinal products is undesirable, unnecessary and should be minimized or eliminated entirely. Manufacturers of vaccines and thimerosal, (an ethlymercury compound used in vaccines), have never conducted adequate testing on the safety of thimerosal. The FDA has never required manufacturers to conduct adequate safety testing on thimerosal and ethlymercury compounds…Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is likely related to the autism epidemic. This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding injected thimerosal and the sharp rise of infant exposure to this known neurotoxin. Our public health agencies' failure to act is indicative of institutional malfeasance for self-protection and misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry”.

This quote is taken from our own federal government. They acknowledge that there is no logical reasoning to allow mercury in vaccines.

The fact is that the organizations that continually push that mercury is safe in vaccines continue to lose credibility with the public, that is the real reason why people are scared to vaccinate. A bill banning mercury in vaccines is going to boost the morale and the numbers of kids getting vaccinated as confidence in vaccines is restored.

Anyone who seeks 'The Truth' about mercury in medicine should go to a very informative site www.putchildrenfirst.org to learn more.
11 December 2006
at 10:45 p.m.

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moxxie_mama (Anonymous) says…

It isn't just one mother of an autistic child, it's many many many, very well educated, who also believe there is a link. The CDC is covering up, and they were caught skewing their research on it. The government has tried to protect drug companies from behing held liable.

For anyone who doesn't take this risk seriously- they need to do far more research than just looking at the CDC site.

Dig deeper, far far deeper.
11 December 2006
at 10:57 p.m.

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moxxie_mama (Anonymous) says…

By the way, I too, am the mother of an autistic child. I am amazed at the misinformation from the people who claim to know so much about the disorder.

WE parents are the experts- WE have had to live with it. And anyone who says you can't have autism with another diagnosis is completely wrong.

Autism is the only one that is inclusive of all the traits- even though all of our autistic kids are different, they're also much the same. The diagnostic criteria is pretty strong as well. So my child diagnosed also with OCD, that's a symptom of autism as well…it's just that my son is far more obsessive than most.

And as far as regression, my child did regress, suddenly, and it wasn't anywhere near his immunization. I don't know what the trigger was, but I do still believe that the immunization contributed.

I also have a friend whose son went into immediate autism after immunization. It was not present from birth.

By the way, there are MANY reactions from immunizations, autism is only one.
12 December 2006
at 10:05 a.m.

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budwhysir (Anonymous) says…

Who is Bill????

13 December 2006
at 3:24 a.m.

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Dracul (Bill Chapman) says…

There was recent study I read about in Discover magazine. A group of researchers found that chemicals(toxins and NON-toxins) given/ingested/etc. by lab mice and rats caused inactive/active genes to switch on/off.
This had the result of causing the offspring (for more than two generations) of a rat line breed designed to have diabetes and be severely over-weight to be born (live !!) a normal rats life - optimal weight, no health problems.
A different substance caused a rat line bred to be as normal as could be to have offspring (again multiple generations) with severe health problems.

My point is - just what have we been doing to our children with all the various drugs (chemicals) we have been giving to our children's' children in the name of good health?
16 December 2006
at 5:42 p.m.

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m5th (Anonymous) says…

It amazes me that some of the comments made here show what little people know about the biomedical side of this whole issue. It does work and there are many children cured of autism. Also, why are the pharmaceuticals covering their butts by hiding their own agendas under the homeland security law that was passed? Bill Frist made a bundle on that one. Did you know that now the pharmaceuticals can make any vaccine and cannot be held accountable for any damage it does (now we have to go through vaccine court to get anything) and they do not have to release the ingredients of what is in the vaccines, not to mention forcing people to get one if it becomes “necessary”.
Why is there no one stampeding for a cure or prevention when over 1 in 166 children have this? Polio was 1 in 3,000.
So, for those of you who think the vaccines are safe and have total trust in pharmaceuticals and the vaccines they want you and your children to have, there is a $75,000 offer to take the vaccines the children get with the same proportions for you as an adult. What amazes the autism community who believe in the thimerisol connection and biomedical about this offer is that no one has volunteered to take the $75,000 offer and run. I wonder what could be holding them back if there is no reason to believe that it causes damage….
17 December 2006
at 10 p.m.

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m5th (Anonymous) says…

Here is video of the Suffolk County Legistlature having hearings about allowing vaccines with thimerosal to be given to their children.

Hearing on Thimerosal Suffolk County Legislature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEIFeY… First Half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMe-u… Second Half
18 December 2006
at 12:44 p.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

Don't you wish you were a witch-doctor company?

The product is consumable (well, not really, but I mean is used up).

It is required, can be forced on people.

You can't be held accountable.

And the money just keeps pouring in.