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Archive for Tuesday, April 11, 2006

Immigrants take to streets, make case for citizenship

April 11, 2006

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"No one is illegal! All humans have rights!" Ray Rojas shouted.

Rojas stood Monday night on the steps of St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church in Lawrence, surrounded by hundreds of people, mostly Hispanic, who flew the flags of America, Mexico and Kansas University as they marched in support of illegal immigrants.

The march from St. John to the Douglas County Courthouse coincided with marches in dozens of cities across the nation Monday, in protest of an immigration bill that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant.

"I really hate it when people use the word alien. It's not like we are from a different planet," said Crystal Viurquez, a KU sophomore from Garden City and rally organizer.

Her parents came to the United State from Mexico and were granted amnesty during Ronald Reagan's presidency in 1986.

After a prayer at the church, the group headed east to South Park. The loud chant "SÃ- se puede," meaning "Yes, we can," filled the street. The cry has become the signature chant for national rallies and marches.

Children of immigrants, other community members of non-Hispanic descent, KU students and even some illegal immigrants made the march, said Lydia León, coordinator for the Latino Community Coalition in Lawrence.

Organizers said the march drew "hundreds" of demonstrators; unlike similar protests in other cities, there were no apparent counterdemonstrators.

'I wanted to live'

Carlos Urquilla stepped onto the courthouse steps. He was wearing his U.S. Army camouflage jacket.

Urquilla illegally crossed the border into the United States in 1984 from his native El Salvador, which was in the midst of a violent civil war.

"Yes, I broke the law. I wanted to live," Urquilla told the crowd.

After working several jobs in California, he joined the Army in 1990 and was granted a green card. He was still away from most of his family back home in Latin America.

"I joined the Army because I had passion, and I wanted to pay something back," he said.

Urquilla served in combat in Operation Desert Storm and helped liberate Kuwait from Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. He retired from the Army in 2004 as a first lieutenant, and he is now a U.S. citizen. He earned a degree from Kansas State and a law degree from KU.

He has a home in Lawrence with his wife and son but also works for Kaplan University in Chicago.

Urquilla said he feared what would happen to him if H.R. 4437 became law and made it a criminal offense to stay in the country after entering illegally.

"I would have never had that opportunity had a similar bill been in place," he said.

He hopes legislation will protect the border but also make it easier for illegal immigrants to get on a track toward citizenship if they have a clean record.

"I would die trying to live the American dream," Urquilla said.

'No Somos Criminales'

In front of the courthouse steps, demonstrators observed a moment of silence for anyone who died in border violence.

One person at the rally held a sign that said "We are not Criminals" in Spanish.

At one point, they stood and listened to a prayer from Moussa Elbayoumy, director of the Islamic Society of Lawrence.

"This nation was built on immigrants," he said.

During the march, many voiced concern about treatment of families of illegal immigrants.

"I believe in human rights for all people. My ancestors didn't need a green card to come to this country," said Karen Eager, of Lawrence.

Cyndi Treaster, of Lecompton, marched with a sign that said "Family Values Don't Stop at the Border," a line President Bush used during his January visit to Manhattan.

"We haven't had a good law to allow people to come here legally to work since 1986. Because of that, the numbers of undocumented (immigrants) has just grown," Treaster said.

Many marchers said they hoped a new citizenship application process would be put into place.

"I would like to see the legislation include writing that would support families," said León, of the Latino Community Coalition. "Deporting the rest of the family (of an immigrant) is not good."

"It's nothing new for people in the United States to rally around the common good," said Lupe Ramirez, a 2001 KU graduate who lives in Lawrence and works in Kansas City, Mo.

Comments

Kaw Pickinton 8 years, 8 months ago

FYI. The Mayflower was full of immigrants.

/Viva la revolution!

Tamara110 8 years, 8 months ago

If you want to come here, work, pay taxes like everyone else, then fine, come here, make a life for youself. But if you want to live in America you have to follow our rules. I don't think that Americans are really concered about people who want to come here to better thier lives. Its the immigrants who come here and just want to take advantage of our system that angry Americans. All you illegal immigrants who are marching to show that you want to stay, give us a reason to let you stay! Show us that you are dedicated to helping make America better.

nonimbyks 8 years, 8 months ago

Every criminal I've ever met or have visited with in a jail cell is innocent of their crime.

You have no sympathy from me. Stop your whining and all the BS pity party and get back to Mexico or where ever. I'm sorry if you had babies and married and stuff, yep, even criminals caught committing crimes or violating a law suffer family strife too.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 8 months ago

This latest round of paranoia over immigration is just the latest Republican campaign of fearmongering distraction. They are heading into fall elections with the very real prospect of losing seats in both the house and the senate because of an arrogantly incompetent abuse of their power over the last several years, and once again whipping up their xenophobic base is their desperate attempt to head that off.

nonimbyks 8 years, 8 months ago

Kline, you can come stay with me, and bring all of your friends. I'll employ you and pay under the table tax free, with free medical service, food stamps, drivers license and education.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

Tamara you are correct. Let them pay taxes, and get off the system. I wish the JW would have conducted a survey on how many of them are on public assistance right now. (Probably most) I hate those "I am not a criminal" signs. Does that mean that if I break a US law, I can just parade around with a sign that says "I am not a criminal" and everyone should be fine with it? Shzeeesh!! Where was INS yesterday? Half of them at the courthouse admitted they were illegal!

lonelyboy 8 years, 8 months ago

The ones who walked out of class/work all need to be suspended or fired. Just another example of how they get around the system. They break our laws and still walk free..this crap needs to stop .

KsTwister 8 years, 8 months ago

Illegals know the law,times up. Like others I will repeat where is INS? Put up or shut up. Our ancestors met your boats and armies to this country,maybe after you are in a civil war with each other we get it back and run it right. Anyone care to note which businesses had many employees missing? Fine them or close them down. I highly doubt most of them here in Lawrence are picking crops right now or in the near future. So much for that argument.

lonelyboy 8 years, 8 months ago

Boo hoo I spent all my money sneaking into this country and now I have to mow grass or do hard labor... why don't they stay in their country and fixed the problems there. Because they have it easy here. Figure it out,, some of these people live better than citizens that do it the right way.. they drive better cars live in better houses, and why,b/c they work for cash. To hell with it I think I will start speaking spanish and reap the rewards ,, then the govt. / police will ignore me in this town. Oh and by the way it gets in the 90's in Mexico, so what, people here work in the heat also. To bad these guys had to work in the heat illegally.

craigers 8 years, 8 months ago

I would have liked the survey asked about earlier today and that could at least give us some figures about how many are living off the system instead of just assuming they all are. And I agree some of the other posters on here and don't mind if anybody comes to our country but do your part and pay taxes. And the story about the gentleman that came to America and then joined the Army was quite nice. He felt in debt to America and wanted to do what he could for the country and that deserves citizenship. However others that think since America is rich and they are owed by America then that upsets me. But like I said we don't know how many are actually living off the system.

aguacate 8 years, 8 months ago

It's true, in a sense, that we are all immigrants, but , relatively speaking, I am not. I was born in the USA and am a blond-haired, blue-eyed Anglo, so I object to LJW's headline "Immigrants Take to the Streets." I was right there among them, and happy to be there. I have, worked for many years with immigrants (specifically Mexican immigrants), both legal and illegal, and for the past thirteen years have shared my life with one. I have been consistently impressed and humbled by their courtesy, gentleness, kindness, generosity, honesty, and willingness to work harder and longer than I would be willing to do myself. (I wouldn't be surprised if those who know other immigrant coimmunities better than I do could make similar comments about them.) The undocumented immigrants I know DO pay their taxes, not because they have to, but because they want to be able to demonstrate their willingness to be good citizens if given the opportunity. My experience has been so contrary to the stereotype that I wonder whether the authors of some of the meaner-spirited comments have ever known, or even met, a Mexican, or if they are basing their views on images of the Frito Bandito, Speedy Gonzalez, and other manifestations of this country's age-old prejudice against Mexicans.

happygolucky 8 years, 8 months ago

I was under the mode of thought that ENGLISH was the national language in the US. If I move to Germany, are they going to be forced to learn English, if not, why do I have to watch these lame ads on TV that are ONLY in spanish. If you want to come over and become an American, do us a favor and at least learn to speak English. The US is so lax in letting people just walk right on in. Can I just go to what ever country I want and just set up shop and expect the rights of that country, HELL NO. So why here. All you whinning Bunny Loving Tree Huggers need to just adopt some of these mexicans and give them a place to stay.

This right to housing for all these spanish speaking illegals should come after ALL legal americans have a home. What are they trying to do, take us back? Are they going to the Canda border and then we find out they all have guns and they start to revolt. Next thing you know, We're Mexicans. All I can say is remember the Alamo!

Round em up and ship em out. Why don't we take EVERY Illegal and send them to Iraq and bring our guys home. If they'll fight for the US, then we can let them stay. Work out a deal that for every tour they do, we'll give one member of their family a green card. With a limit of course. I see them taking our jobs and welfare, but how many joined the Armed Forces?

If one commits a crime, who's held accountable? The Bunny lovin' Tree Huggers? If they weren't here, if wouldn't have happened. As far as my family coming to the US, they had to jump though the hoops. ALL LEGAL. Maybe we should put an end to Affirmative action. It won't be long and the Whites will be the minority. Will they be able to take jobs from the Black man who's been at the company for years due to the color of his skin. I'd move to another country but their laws make it to hard. Austrailia requires a college degree for every adult trying to move there. Canada isn't any easier, not to mention the cold.

Besides, why should I move, I was here first and I'm LEGAL!

Enough said, if you still want them to have rights, then get bent.

gphawk89 8 years, 8 months ago

I didn't know El Salvador and the United States shared a border...

lonelyboy 8 years, 8 months ago

aguacate.. you forgot the smiley faced Chief Wahoo and the Washington Redskins...lets not forget this age old prejudice !!!!!!

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

happy, most people in Germany do speak English.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

Marion - of course you oppose immigration - immigration large enough to fill the labor market of this country.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

macon47 - I expect you to be front and center at the next St. Patricks Day parade - how dare those Irish flaunt their disloyalty!

feeble 8 years, 8 months ago

HR 4437 is an unjust law.

What purpose does imposing five-year mandatory minimum prison sentences on humanitarian workers, public schoolteachers, church workers, and others whose only object is to provide relief to those who enter the country illegally?

This bill puts us in an untenable position, betray your humanity or betray your country.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

"White & proud."

I believe that sums up the true debate quite nicely. The language of immigration critics is word-for-word that of David Duke on the subject just a decade ago.

Its time for those who claim that their "concerns" are not just bare racism to demonstrate this fact by voicing demands that valid, legal means are provided to accomodate immigrants.

The number of valid visas issued are woefully insufficient. This is true BOTH for low-skill and high-skill immigration. The time it takes to bring a relative to the U.S. extends often far past a decade.

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

James,

It has nothing to do with racism. It's about my money being spent on illegals when it should be spent on domestic issues.

DJdowntown7 8 years, 8 months ago

Immigration issues are here to stay. Saying that...we should look into our downtown business and see if the illegals are treated right. Who employes them and how much do they sweat at these stores. Who runs these stores? I want to know how many of them get overtime pay? With immigration rights...equality in compensation and benefits will soon knock our doors. Watch out employers of cheap labor.

Atreides 8 years, 8 months ago

This is a Fifth Column, those protesters yesterday. Proof that we are done for. . I'm sure that some upper learned cosmopolitan citizens of Rome were saying in 476AD - "Oh these barbarians just want to be Romans like us! Look how they supply our Legions with soldiers and they also make good slaves - they do the jobs we can't get our slaves to do....Securing our borders will only stifle trade to Rome and ruin the economy..."

Illegal immigrants are not to blame themselves. If our cowardly politicians of both parties would have been minding the store, if predatory businessmen would have had a leash on them to heel on the Cheap Labor; if lily white middle class Bolsheviks in love with Third Worldism would have been deported to those destinations - this issue and most of them wouldn't be here. It's the gringo Castillian ruling caste in Mexico City who wish to be shed of their brown peon Meztisos that are openly aiding and abetting illegal immigration as well. So yes, race is a factor.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

KSTwister, I don't think there is an INS anymore. It was combined with Homeland Security.

I think the illegal immigration (and, yes, it is illegal) problem should be handled at the state level. Governors should have the power to put people out of their states who cannot prove that they have visas and valid documentation.

It should be up to employers to provide documentation records to the dept of Labor every quarter along with the unemployment report.

Jeteras 8 years, 8 months ago

Last time I checked we are all "Immigrants" to the The NEW LAND.. DUH! read your history books.

monkeyhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Another thing to consider... the basic human urge to perpetuate our genes. Most people in the US realize that they have got to use birth control if they cannot or do not want to have litters of children. Since many south of the border are not allowed to use birth control in accordance with their religious beliefs, how long will it take for 12 - 20 million to explode into 100 million?

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

I thought that local police and state troopers did not have the authority to arrest people for immigration violations. If that is the case, then it needs to be changed.

It is scary to see millions of people resort to third world political tactics such as massive street demonstrations and threats in order to change the laws of this country. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the people demonstrating have absolutely no clue about how our government works. We are on the road to anarchy.

Jeteras 8 years, 8 months ago

Think about it in realistic terms,,, here in Kansas should we be concerned about what this will ultimately do?, ummmm no, should we really worry that people are going to take our jobs anytime soon,,,, ummm probably not in our lifetime or our childrens lifetime! Live life and be happy YOU are in the US and not somewhere that your family is starving and have no medical treatment and your only resort is to try to go somewhere you can attempt to help your family.

Do people really think that marching on the street is going to make matters better? That just takes our law enforcement away from the jobs that they really should be doing to protect us!! sheesh Im out.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Good point, Monkeyhawk. No wonder the Catholic Church is promoting the invasion.

Jeteras 8 years, 8 months ago

Marion:

Was it Legal then?? ask the indians,, this discussion could go as far back as anyone wants if you think about it. Monkeyhawk has a valid point... average US family in 2005 = 2 children,, average family in a third world country or impoverished area = 2X3

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

Jet,

Okay, let's just give you the indian one(though I completely disagree with you, there was a war and they lost.) Does it make it any more right now? No, it doesn't. Go back across the border and stop draining out economy.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

WashPost-ABC news poll - April 6-9, 2006:

Which do you prefer: 1. No temporary workers and felony status, 2. Program allowing aliens to work here but not remain permanently, 3. Program that may lead to legal status and permanent citizenship.

Results: 1. 20% 2. 14% 3. 63%

If someone won a Presidential election with 63% of the vote, it would be termed a mandate of historic proportions.

Certain elements in our political landscape need enemies to stir up voters - as blacks, unions, gays, feminists and now terrorists have "used up" they've now turned to immigrants as the 'crisis de jour.'

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

"Go back across the border and stop draining out economy." [sic]

Isn't it curious that these aliens are found in greatest concentration in the most economically vibrant locales?

I'd say North Dakota probably gets first place for deadest economy - strangely enough that's where the fewest number of aliens reside.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Jamesaust, then lets just quit having elections and live by polls. Throw out the constitution.

feeble 8 years, 8 months ago

"Another thing to consider... the basic human urge to perpetuate our genes. Most people in the US realize that they have got to use birth control if they cannot or do not want to have litters of children. Since many south of the border are not allowed to use birth control in accordance with their religious beliefs, how long will it take for 12 - 20 million to explode into 100 million?"

Amazingly, there is a very strong correlation between education and child-bearing/rearing, i.e. more education = fewer children.

Atreides 8 years, 8 months ago

Jeteras: here in Kansas they have already taken jobs. Have you looked at the construction trades lately??

adky 8 years, 8 months ago

Send them all home

As I said on another forum, what about that british guy at KU who was convicted of child rape. We know nothing of their past crimes and just let anyone here. He doesn't have to register with the sheriff and could do it again to our kids. All out now!

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

The oath that must be taken by all immigrants hoping to become ciitizens is this:

"Will you support and defend the Constitution and uphold the laws of America?"

If one intentionallly broke our laws coming to this land, has intentionally broke our laws will living in this land up taking this oath, has shaken their fist at our laws and demanded we change our laws as we have tried to enforce our laws, this oath means nothing to that person. If such a person is to be granted one of the most sought after and prized possessions of this modern age, American citizenship, as a country we can only expect the roots of wanton subversion and disrespect of our laws and institutions to deepen and take hold in the coming generations.

I am willing to pay an extra $0.25 for my bag of oranges to make sure our laws aren't dilluted to the point they are irrelevant.

The law is never the law if it is arbitrarily tossed into the rubbish when one doesn't like it. Even if that is the will of a frenzied majority. In this case, there isn't a majority because those shaking their fist are ILLEGAL aliens lacking any right to demand a change in our laws. Such a right belongs to the citizens of this country.

This is an intellectual and moral battle worth fighting!

KsTwister 8 years, 8 months ago

I pulled into Sonic yesterday to get a softdrink and the music changed to spanish. I think someone needs to check out the kitchen perhaps. ENGLISH is a requirement here for immigration. Maybe we need a minuteman operation in Kansas too. Legal no problem but illegal and you know who you are---there is no excuse,you could be here legally if you wanted to. I do not think I want people who have a blatant disregard for the law to become citizens anyway.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

Godot -

Elections where 'Congressmen' gerrymander districts? Godot - you Congressman chose you, not the other way around. Ergo, the hyper-partisanship displayed with each successive Congress. No one outside of a core dozen or two ever has to worry about not being re-elected. Thank goodness no one has figured out how to gerrymander a whole state yet, or the Senate would be as deaf as the House.

We do have elections. As you may remember, a certain Texan who keeps insisting on balancing border enforcement with adequate immigration was re-dis-elected in 2004. Unfortunately for some, no matter how extremely conservative even this President has been, that's still not enough for the inner-fascists among us - first, "we" make law; then, "we" will make order!

latina 8 years, 8 months ago

Just an FYI for all of you...unless you are Native American YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT!!! That's right, people. The white man stole this country from the Natives long, long ago. You don't hear them griping, do you? Of course not. Because your ancestors killed a lot of them and made the majority of them abandon their culture to become "Christianized" and now we have made them live on reservations. Coming from Native American decent AND Mexican decent, I despise you all that think that you are superior to my ancestors. I believe that Americans are lazy. They want to gripe because these "illegal immigrants" are taking jobs from the "real Americans". Let me tell you something. These people do all they can to support their families, because that is our custom...our families are our lives. Let them have these jobs...give them benefits and the same rate of pay. Too many lazy Americans are on welfare and laying on their backs are what they do to paid. I'm tired of paying for their damn kids!! They have the same opportunity to have these jobs, but it's soooo much easier for us to pay for them and all their illegitimate children. They have no pride and they're not too ashamed to accept our money. At least the workers that are wanting in to America from Mexico WANT to work, WANT to help our economy...I say send all the freakin' people on welfare out of the country and let all the hard workers in.

txgirl 8 years, 8 months ago

First, immigration is not only towards Mexicans its ALL immigrants from diffrent countries, second have we all lost the whole point of immigrants coming to the Unites States, it to live a better life to bring their kids to have a better opportuity because this is what U.S. is based on better opportunity. For all of you WHITE POWER, close minded folks, why don't you take a few moments and just pretend to be in the situation of an immigrant, being in one of those countries, working hours and hours, for a misearable $2/hr (if even that) just enough to feed your kids and put them under some kind of roof. Most of you don't know what these people have gone through.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

There are a lot of mexicans that are illegal living in North Lawrence. A neighbor said they all work for PINES......yep, our wonderful Senator's Farm! GIVE ME A BREAK!

txgirl 8 years, 8 months ago

And another thing, there are US CITIZENS that speak BOTH SPANISH and ENGLISH. How do you expect someone to learn English before they come to the United States in a foreign country, there isn't always an opportunity for that, they will have the opportunity to learn English once they are in the U.S.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

I am a Daughter of the American Revolution. My family lineage has been traced back pre-RW. My family immigrated here with nothing but the family bible, which is still passed down generation to generation. I have no problem with people coming here to have a better life. I have worked with and been friends with many hispanic people. But, they are here legally!
I have a problem with having to hear instructions in Spanish before English is spoken when I call the US Post Office Package Tracking Hotline. I have a problem with being leered at on the street on a Sunday afternoon by a carload of Hispanics. In their culture its okay to hoot and hollar out to woman and make sexual comments. (That did happen to me as I was walking to Church in Emporia on a Sunday).
I think we need to solidify our border regulations and actually start enforcing them. Illegals crossing over is a major problem, what about having militia's patrol the border.
And thats all I have to say about that....for now.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

JW should call Pine's for a statement. Seriously.

latina 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm sorry Lilchick that you got "hooted and hollered" at while going to church. It's not just Hispanics that do that...I've encountered plenty of men from EVERY race do that to women...it's not a RACE thing, it's a SEX thing. Don't come on here saying that that's what Hispanic men do...because it's not true...it's men in general...doesn't matter what race they are...it's just men being perverts. And Marion...maybe you have learned two languages because you're a white overpriveledged, well-paid male in this country and you have access to a higher education compared to immigrants. Just because you speak three languages doesn't mean you are superior to anyone else and those who come here from another country DO learn English...it takes awhile as you should know since you had to learn different languages.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

latina:

Given your express despising of Americans and our institution, shall we say hatred, you'd make a perfect liberal--come on in. You hate America before you're even a citizen, we really need to let you in to get some diversity going. This epitomizes every illegal shaking their fists at our laws saying "yes we can".

As a citizen, someone you hate, I'm here to say "no you can't" break our laws.

The fact is illegal aliens aren't supporting American citizens on welfare because illegal's don't contribute to American tax coffers. However, illegal kids go to school, get free medical from the state,etc, etc--that's draining without filling. My evidence, look at the crippling state California, Arizona and Texas are in due to the hefty gravy train of social programs devied out to illegal aliens and their children. So, if the basis for your hatred for Americans is that a very small minority is taking but not contributing, that puts illegal aliens on equal footing with those you expressly despise. By your own logic you should hate yourself.

As to the native americans. They to migrated at one point. I say "migrated" because immigration is a word associated with gaining citizenship to a sovereign nation. There was no sovereign nation when they arrived here. Nor did the native americans have a sovereign nation going when we got here. Being said, we're living in the 21st century as a sovereign nation. Get over it. We're not going back

Nice try, but your logic falls into fallacy.

Trekkie 8 years, 8 months ago

The thing a lot of the 'pay taxes' people need to know is that they do pay taxes. They just hand out a bogus SSN and hope it takes years, if not decades, for someone in immigration to figure it out.

They pay lots of taxes that way, and get nothing back. Not that this is right either. But a lot of them do pay taxes, and it's not an employers obligation (nudge nudge wink wink) to make sure that it's a valid number. They hand them the W9 form, and they get back an SSN, and they're done.

Illegal immigration has to stop. The folks helping these people wanting a better life across the border are just making money hand over fist, and get paid more and more to help someone come across. The lack of border security should give you nightmares. If they're willing to take money to help 'normal' people who want a better life, what about those that dont' want a better life and want to harm ours ? They're money is just as good as the next guys as far as the 'coyotes' care.

I would love to see a guest worker program where ID cards are handed out, information is taken about the person, and it's logged & documented. With computers the way they are when someone wants to hire someone the get the guest worker ID look it up online, and away they go.

The illegals that are in the country now should have a six month grace period to file for the same program and then after that, you're in trouble.

I'm always surprised at these demonstrations there aren't arrests. I mean if you're standing on the streat corner cheering thef act that you're hear against the law, why aren't they arrested for breaking the law? That in itself should tell you the system is broken.

As far as becoming citizens, that is what made America great. You learn english, you learn about the history of our country, and you become a citizen. We should never stop that. But if you want to make some money here, and go back home and live off of it, more power too you, we just need to know where you are and that you're not unecessiarily burdening our system provided for our citizens, regardless of their status or where they were from.

latina 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, rightthinker, what about all the families on welfare that have eight, ten or a dozen people in an apartment? What about them? They live off of yours and my tax dollars by having kid after kid...shouldn't the apt. managers do something about them??

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

latina:

The rational and qualification to gain citizenship is indepedent of the welfare policies in a America. The fact you keep bringing it up suggests there is a nexus between illegal aliens and welfare. Which is my whole point in citing you to the welfare state in California dominated by illegals.

You've got to come up with some rational basis for throwing our laws in the trash because you hate America.

"No you can't" break our laws! Not while existing citizens stand up.

Atreides 8 years, 8 months ago

aquatate: The reason illegals were so humble and willing to work longer hours than you, a legal immigrant, is because they were ILLEGAL and their employer gots them by the tookas.

Read here how the progressives and the economic predators who enable illegal immigration have come together in a united front:

www.americaneconomicalert.com/view_art.asp

Lenin was correct: Not only will they sell 'em the rope, they'll pay illegal cheap labor immigrants to hang them;-)

txgirl 8 years, 8 months ago

WOW NorthLawrenceDude, are you a female by the way? I'm not going to say that mexicans aren't dirty birds and holler at women, but i will say they are not the only ones, so i strongly agree w/ latina, its all men, its a gender thing, and I have been "hooped and yelled" by all types of men so don't point fingers just at hispanics

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

At the immigrant right rally tres, which will surely happen soon, each of those marching should carry the flag of his or her country of CITIZENSHIP. That would be englightening for those who assume that Mexicans are the only people who have entered the country illegally who demand the full rights of US citizens.

By the way, call them Mexicans, not Hispanics. Hispanics are American citizens of Spanish lineage. The people waving the Mexican flag in parades are patriotic Mexican nationals, and are proud to be identified as such.

latina 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

Are Latinos known for hot tempers? I heard that somewhere. LOL READ ABOVE.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

This should NOT be a racist issue. It's about BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!! If you don't follow correct procedure in coming here, you get sent back. Simple as that. It applies to the Cambodians, Cubans, Mexicans, Middle Easterns, and any other nationality that wants to CHANGE their nationality to American. We have laws here that are set up for the tax system and healthcare system and school system. We need to know how many people are in our country, and know that they are paying their share of the burden to keep things running. Its not that we don't want them here. The more the merrier. I just don't want people coming here without following the rules and then expecting us to change for them.

lilchick 8 years, 8 months ago

And yes, in my opinion if you immigrate to an new country and change your citizenship, you change your nationality. You can never change your ethnic heritage, but you can change the nation that you call home.

drctrlr 8 years, 8 months ago

I can't wait for the day when America begins prosecuting 11 million felons. That should go smoothly. After all, make them felons and they become entitled to representation, trials, appeals etc. What's that? No it doesn't ? Why certainly. Enforcement of a crime requires the accused to be considered guilty until proven innocent. Not that anyone doubts Juan is here illegally, but now it must be proven. In court. 11 million times over. That shouldn't be costly or time-consuming. After all, have we known the US Justice system to be anything but frugal and efficient? Personally, I root for the underdog in any fight. In this case, the underdog happens to be a mastif. How do you say "woof" in Spanish?

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Latina, being offended by an organized group of millions of people who enter your country illegally (otherwise known as an "invasion") and who subsequently take to the streets waving the flag of their homeland, demanding we change our laws to meet their needs, is not racist. To not be offended, and inflamed by this, would be called brain dead.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

Why don't we just conclude this insanity by conceding that first, all men are dirty perverts (especially white men), second, all white people are racist biggots because we actually care about our laws, and last, America was an illegimate sovereign nation to begin with so the grounds for citizenship should be successfully swimming a river or scaling a wall. Perhaps on this we could do a simultaneous Olympic tryout and time people for the 2008 summer Olympic team.

Stop the insanity. "NO you can't" break our laws.

cutny 8 years, 8 months ago

Marion,

Might I ask when you find 70 hours a week to "work"?

Thanks,

Marion jr.

happygolucky 8 years, 8 months ago

Posted by bankboy119

happy, most people in Germany do speak English.

Wohoo. They didn't learn it to fit into their own country, and not everyone does. I have been in many places in Europe that didn't understand a word we were saying.

Posted by Jeteras

Last time I checked we are all "Immigrants" to the The NEW LAND.. DUH! read your history books.

Were talking about illegals DUH!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Jeteras

Was it Legal then?? ask the indians,, this discussion could go as far back as anyone wants if you think about it. Monkeyhawk has a valid point... average US family in 2005 = 2 children,, average family in a third world country or impoverished area = 2X3

We asked the Indians when we got here, But they said no one can own the land. Spoils of war! What about the Romans? Oh yeah, DUH, it's a history thing.

Posted by latina

Just an FYI for all of you...unless you are Native American YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT!!! That's right, people. The white man stole this country from the Natives long, long ago. You don't hear them griping, do you? Of course not. Because your ancestors killed a lot of them and made the majority of them abandon their culture to become "Christianized" and now we have made them live on reservations. Coming from Native American decent AND Mexican decent, I despise you all that think that you are superior to my ancestors. I believe that Americans are lazy. They want to gripe because these "illegal immigrants" are taking jobs from the "real Americans". Let me tell you something. These people do all they can to support their families, because that is our custom...our families are our lives. Let them have these jobs...give them benefits and the same rate of pay. Too many lazy Americans are on welfare and laying on their backs are what they do to paid. I'm tired of paying for their damn kids!! They have the same opportunity to have these jobs, but it's soooo much easier for us to pay for them and all their illegitimate children. They have no pride and they're not too ashamed to accept our money. At least the workers that are wanting in to America from Mexico WANT to work, WANT to help our economy...I say send all the freakin' people on welfare out of the country and let all the hard workers in.

Are you RETARDED!!!!! You hear them whine EVERY DAY! As for your ancestors, I may not be better than them, but by your lame attack on "mean lazy ol' whitie", I'm better than you. As stated before, we didn't steal, Spoils of war AFTER we asked who own this land. If your so mad, you should be really heated by the mexican invasion. First the white guys, now th mexicans, who's next, the french? I think you and your buddy, the history major, need to study up.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

The solution to the problem is to replace our current tax system with a national sales tax. When all the people who are here without visas or passports, and are working without having a real social security number and without filing taxes, have to pay sales tax on every purchase they make, a tax that reflects the true cost of running our government, they may find it isn't worth it to sneak across the border and flagrantly break our laws after all.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

Good old Godot - where reality exists as you self-define it. Sorry, you don't get to have your own Clinton-like personal dictionary.

The people waving Mexican flags are Mexican and U.S. citizens. If you wish to believe otherwise, fine but no one is fooled by your self-deception.

Hispanic is a term of ethnic derivation, well-defined by the law in this country, and referring to those of ethnic but not racial derivation from Hispania (Spain & Portugal - think Emeril) or Spanish America (but, as one Brazilian-American found out via an employment discrimination lawsuit, not Portugese America, a/k/a, Brazil). That said, most people use it as a proxy for racial identification.

Its amazing that anyone can speak of a subject permeated by race such as the history of U.S. immigration and keep insisting that race has nothing to do it. Reminds my of Stephen Colbert interviewing Jesse Jackson: "So now that racism has gone away, what do you do with your time?"

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Jamesaust, the people who are marching with Mexican flags are Americans citizens? Where did you get this impression? What about the people marching waving American flags upside down? Are those Americans, also, or Mexicans, or just Americans who wish they weren't Americans?

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Jamesaust, the point I was trying to make (granted, I made it extremely poorly) is that this is not about race, it is about nationality. Before the demonstrations began, I was on here defending the "undocumented workers." When I saw the sea of Mexican flags, and the flyers that were passed around showing a map of Mexico and Texas as one country, and the people spitting on the American flag, and the organization behind the protests, that is when I realized this a serious threat.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 8 months ago

Godot wrote:

"Jamesaust, the people who are marching with Mexican flags are Americans citizens? Where did you get this impression? What about the people marching waving American flags upside down? Are those Americans, also, or Mexicans, or just Americans who wish they weren't Americans?"

I always ask myself this question of those who fly the Confederate flag. Why anyone would want to fly the flag of a bunch of losers is beyond me. "Ooo, the confederacy lost the civil war, and I proudly wave the flag of the losers". Craziness.

Confrontation 8 years, 8 months ago

Could someone please tell me what the "American Dream" is? I'm an American, but I've yet to find anything dream-like about this country. If those in other countries only knew how much horrible stuff occurs in this country, then maybe they'd reconsider their trip here. Unless you are born rich, win the lotto, or have some other miracle take place, then you will never discover the "dream."

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

I am baffled that none of the "yes we can" camp, or any liberals for that matter, have defended the express proposition or intimation they hate the American institutions and laws and current citizens. Wow, I thought this would spawn a glut of rebuttal. Your silence is resounding.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

Godot - Its not an "impression" but a fact. Millions of U.S. citizens of Mexican derivation live in the U.S. Indeed, some were here before there was a U.S. Ever notice all those Spanish geographic names? You can't have a conversation in this country without speaking Spanish.

I'm hardly surprised that there's a backlash against the U.S. given the demonizing tone of some in this country.

Right now, the GOP is on the precipice of "Pete Wilson-izing" the nation: adopting anti-immigrant policies with heavy racial tones and thereby turning themselves into a political minority. Remember the days when Calfornia was a Republican state?

Every election cycle, Republicans - the party of Lincoln - work like dogs to increase their share of the black vote. I believe current polling showing that the percentage of blacks who approve of Bush's performance is about 2% (literally).

The only thing that has saved the GOP from minority status is that it attracts a heathy percentage of the Hispanic vote - 44% in 2004. Remove Hispanic votes from the GOP in 2004 and you're talking about Kerry in a landslide. Much has been made of a slight increase in black votes in Ohio in 2004. That's only because of an assumption of a healthy share of Hispanic votes. Absent these, Bush could not have been re-elected.

Bruce Bertsch 8 years, 8 months ago

Those harping about taxes are going to be unpleasantly surprised when they find out that the overwhelming majority of illegals do pay taxes. Thats the funny thing about this argument. Everyone presupposes that the 11 million are a drain on the economy, but have any of you really thought through the costs of deporting 11 million residents? Someone wentioned an extra quarter for a bag of oranges...what a joke. Try $5-10 more. And for those who like beef, wait till you see the price. Better to find a way to assimilate those that are here and make them legal residents than to try and ship them back and destroy our economy.

calnvy 8 years, 8 months ago

I have a question... whether the fact that so many people are here illegally is right or wrong, I am not going to attempt to answer..... What does seem logical to me is that 5500 immigration and border patrol workers will not be able to handle any sort of "reform" or enforcement. What about this wall we are going to build... what the hell is up with that?? Is there anyone else that thinks that the 700 billion this is gonna take could be spent more wisely?? This going to end up costing the US waaaaay too much, and we will be no more secure or better off than before. History truly does repeat itself.... walls never work... A free ride is not what these people are seeking, and not what they are getting. I agree that everyone should pay their fair share in taxes... If you use the system, you have to pay for it. If you took all the illegal workers away this country would stop and that is a fact... even Sam Brokeback (idiot) can see this!

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

moderation, where did you read that the "overwhelming majority" do pay taxes? Also, even if they pay taxes, how much of the rest of their wages, which should have been given to an American in the first place, goes back to Mexico? Oh I do know that one, over 70%. I've talked with the guys at El Mezcal, really nice, most aren't legal. 6 of them in a 1 bedroom, why? Because they like it like that? No, because they save almost everything (except to buy the Escalade) to send back to Mexico. 70% of illegal wages going back to the grand ol' land of Mexico...that's a lot of money leaving the US.

True that last sentence was redundant but with the arguments some people have presented I figured I should say the same thing a few times so people could process it.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

A Kerry 2004 landslide would have been even more exentuated by including Europeans, middle-eastern countries, China, etc, etc, in on the 2004 US election. Is this the reason the Dems are so adimant about tearing down our laws to allow to vote a flood of what would otherwise be illegal aliens? The facts you cited support the proposition that the Hispanics who gained ciitzenship through the legitimate legal process aren't supporting this movement. Why? Because their roots are founded in abiding by the law. We want these types of immigrants, no matter where their from or what color their skin.

Still, no one from the "yes we can camp" or liberals are stepping-up to defend the assertion they hate the institution, laws, and current citizens of America.

I guess we're reduced to making our conclusions on the hate-filled diatribe, and pictures of the American flag being burned and spit on at rallies while the Mexican flag is hoisted and brandished.

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh,

And as for the comment up there about our courts being overloaded because of "felons." Those felons will not be citizens, they do not have the rights that citizens of this country have. They have the right to get their a$$es kicked across the border, not to a fair trial.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

Jamesaust, why do you refuse to recognize that people like me have no problem with people who have sufficient respect for our country and our laws to go through the administrative channels to get to this country? You have to make it a racial thing, when it is not. The US has been invaded by millions and millions of people who have flaunted US law to come here, who break US law to work here, who retain their allegiance to Mexico, and who have organized to change our laws outside of the legal process, through threat and intimidation.

You are the one who is in denial.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

OK, now I'm BEGGING for a legitimate rebuttal from the "yes we can" camp or any liberals out there to the assertion that they hate the institutions, laws and current citizens of America.

dviper 8 years, 8 months ago

If the US federal government really wanted to stop illegal immigration, it would happen. If the penalties were very stiff and strictly enforced, it would solve 95% of illegal immigration. First change the law so that, any person caught illegally entering the US is charged with a felony and serves mandatory prison time of one year. Second, crack down on businesses employing illegal immigrants and increase the fine from $10,000 to a mandatory $50,000 fine, and a felony charge with 2 year probation for the business owner. If caught a second time, the fine increases to $100,000 and mandatory one year prison time for the business owner. If caught a third time, the penalties increase accordingly, and so on.

However, it has been clear to me for many years that the US federal government does not want to do anything about illegal immigration from Mexico. Why? Because both political parties (democratic and republican) perceive political advantage for allowing very weak enforcement of immigration laws especially for Mexican illegal immigrants.

I would prefer that the law be followed and enforced, but it simply isn't going to happen without a huge shift in the minds of legal US citizens who vote. If the voters overwhelmingly galvanized in one direction or the other, the politicians would fall in line accordingly, except for the radicals on both the left and right.

So what is going to happen? Probably not much, the demonstrations will die down eventually, and the politicians on both sides will try to take political advantage one way or the other while they can. If any new laws are passed they will be as ineffective as the ones we already have on the books. Without enforcement a law is just about worthless.

NorthLawrenceDude 8 years, 8 months ago

how come they deleted my post about senator PINE hiring illegals to work on his farm? Its true! Gee wiz JW----check it out before you delete. Call Pine's for a statement, don't delete public posts like this!

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

OK, now I'm PLEADING for a legitimate rebuttal from the "yes we can" camp or any liberals out there to the assertion that they hate the institutions, laws and current citizens of America.

How many times are you going to make me ask?

Grammaton 8 years, 8 months ago

"I really hate it when people use the word alien. It's not like we are from a different planet," said Crystal Viurquez, a KU sophomore from Garden City and rally organizer.

Okay, Crystal, so the word 'alien' only applies to creatures from outer space. Jeez. rolls eyes

linux_chick 8 years, 8 months ago

This is stupid. I think Urquilla nailed his argument to the wall that he has proven himself a productive citizen of the US beyond even your average natively-born Joe.

I think people forget that a large chunk of the economy hinges upon illegal immigrant workers, escpecially in agriculture.

Demonize the people crossing the border all you want, but being "rid" of them (as so many posters seem to be in favor of) comes at a cost. It will hit your checkbook in the supermarkets.

DJdowntown7 8 years, 8 months ago

Any thoughts on ripped off workers downtown? Work 70 hrs and get paid for 40..no over time? What about people from other countries in the same situation (in downtown lawrence)?????????????? Are we talking about all of them?????

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

And yet you still don't have a legitimate rebuttal. It is apparent that you would otherwise just rather stomp out my speech than ingratiate us all with a thoughtful rebuttal. Nice try.

drctrlr 8 years, 8 months ago

Bankboy--

You are wrong. They will have to be proven to be felons before convicted and penalized as such. I know, I know, its a hard idea to get your head around. Deny it all you want, but we'll be hearing about the effects of that particular bill long after it passes. I can tell by the way this topic dominates the discussion on the talkshows of your AM radio demigods that the solution to this problem isn't an easy fix. Meanwhile your entire way of life allegedly hangs in the balance. Kick all the a$$ you want, it won't change the fact that the "invisible" class is now very noticable. Your type frightens easy, so I'm enjoy this, btw.

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

godot asks: "why do you refuse to recognize that people like me have no problem...[legal immigrants]."

godot answers {sound effects added}: "The US has been {dun,dun,dun} INVADED by millions and millions of people who have FLAUNTED US law to come here, who BREAK US law to work here, who retain their {dun,dun,dun} ALLEGIANCE to Mexico, and who have organized to change our laws OUSIDE OF THE LEGAL PROCESS, through THREAT and {dun, dun, dun} INTIMIDATION." (Or, with apoligies to Matt Stone and Trey Parker, is that {dumb, dumb, dumb}): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Abou...

Asked and answered.

Granted, while over the top, its still not as bad as the 'character' on CNN last week who referred to children claiming citizenship via birth as "weapons." Now that's family values!

It almost makes me nostalgic to the pre-Iraq War rhetoric that couldn't discuss Saddam without a bated breath reference to 9/11. Or Kansas pre-2002, when any discussion about homosexuals, who are of course sodomites and Kansas, being one of the 'sodomy-four' states making sodomy a felony ONLY for same-sex persons, led to references to them as "criminals."

The only thing making them "illegal" is a refusal to provide a realistic legal path.

W. had better figure this one out quick or the GOP can kiss the White House goodbye in 2008. How do you say it in Spanish?? Presidente Hilaria Clinton en la casa blanca?

caligirl 8 years, 8 months ago

May 1st is Mexican Labor day and I have been told (at least here in California) that mexicans are going to take off work and not buy anything or spend any money in order to show the effect they have on the economy and how important they are to this country. It is interesting to me that my boss, who is mexican, has already scheduled the day off so we are just covering for her like normal.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 8 months ago

Again you fail to address substance. Rushbo who? I doubt you listen to him, so what facts are you operating on justifying your sterotyping? I thought liberals were for diversity and understanding one another. Not sterotyping.

If indeed I am so irrational, and you are therefore so rational, please enlighten us with a rational rebuttal. If your level of rational superiority is correct than surely you could make an argument that goes to the merits of what has been asserted. Otherwise, we are all left to believe that your best rebuttal is name-calling and addressing the sundry definition of "rational" itself.

No one has yet to address the evidence suggesting hate underlies these "yes we can" rallies as evidence by hate-filled diatribe, the crime associated with such rallies, and spitting on and burning of American flags.

The silence and avoidance of providing a thoughtful rebuttal portends a conclusion that supports the assertion.

drctrlr 8 years, 8 months ago

Cali--

How'd you end up with a Mexican boss. You had trouble getting the bed-sheets folded extra-crisp or something?

caligirl 8 years, 8 months ago

No I don't do anything like that. You take what you can get in California, jobs are a lot harder to find here than in Kansas. My boss is actually an amazing woman who immigrated legally, and I have no complaints. She might even make more money than a lot of the people posting today. It is funny that one would automatically assume that I do something very low on the totem pole because my boss is mexican.

Steve Jacob 8 years, 8 months ago

Remember the movie "Gangs of New YorK" As soon as the Irish landed, they signed a paper/book, became US citizens, and where drafted for the North. :)

Anyway, how much taxes are spent on illegals a year? How many people in our jails should not have been here?

If the laws we currently have are inforced, no problems. Nobody is going to jail for hiring illegals. So why stop. If you pay enough, you will have no problem finding workers. Heck, if you can get americans to drive a truck in Bagdad, you can find one to to farm work in New Mexico.

And raise minimun wage too.

Universe 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't know about you folks but if someone broke into my house then demanded he had the 'right to be there' I'd be a tad pissed. So would you people! Whether or not I like or dislike jobs relating to my property is irrelevant; they still have NO right to just walk in!

It's the same damn thing they're trying to do with this country. Democrats can whine about what Americans will or won't do job-wise till their blue in the face but this is nothing more than a bunch of liberals parading around hoping to somehow get more minority votes at the total expense of this country! It's a slap in the face to the good people who came here legally. Plain and simple...

Am I a right-wing hateful bigot now? Well - too bad. It is ironic however; when your wonderful Clinton administration (who I might add threw out Elion Gonzales) was in charge he wasn't ever acsused of being anything but a good ole boy (who never inhaled) from Arkansas.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 8 months ago

Maybe, in protest, American citizens, especially those who live in the south, should pick one day soon and suddenly flood Mexico with hundreds of thousands of people walking across the border the OTHER way, with no passports, no visas, no nothing. See what happens. See how they like it.

Although the majority of illegal immigrants may be Mexican, though, all of them aren't. And the problem is with illegal immigrants, regardless of what country they're from.

linux_chick 8 years, 8 months ago

cali: Where are you from in Cali? I'm from ks, but am working out here temporarily (uni. internship). Something I've been frequently impressed with in California is the incredible diversity. In my department, it's fair to say that white-native-english speakers are in the minority (under 25%).

Diversity on this scale is almost unheard of in Kansas. I think that's where a lot of this rhetoric comes from on the ljw boards. Many people from Kansas haven't seen what you (I'm guessing) have and can't see this kind of integration as anything but threatening.

Marion: calm down.

Some of the posters on here are democrats and, like it or not, were given a brain cell or two available for you to "convert" conservative if you can form a convincing argument.

I don't tend to agree with you (almost never) when you post, but I generally respect your points as something with more substance than stabs at shock value.

Maybe I misjudged you.

Thanks. LC

Drew_Carey 8 years, 8 months ago

Go see Ceal's link on OTS. It's time for a break.

YourItalianPrincess 8 years, 8 months ago

Does that mean my grandparents were illegal immigrants also? They were both born and raised in Italy and came over to the US on a boat to have a better life.

Linda Aikins 8 years, 8 months ago

Sorry Latina - I'm not an immigrant. I was born in the United States of America - therefore, I'm American. My ancestors immigrated from Germany though. But I'm American.

caligirl 8 years, 8 months ago

linux_chick - I live in not-so sunny southern cali right now, and I totally agree with you about the diversity out here. I graduated from KU and moved out here, and I am one of the VERY few white people that works at my company. There are people here that do not like me because I am white. But I understand that they only feel that way because they are not used to white people, just like white people sometimes act around blacks/hispanics/asians in Kansas. Not a deal for me. I am moving back to Kansas though in a few weeks.

linux_chick 8 years, 8 months ago

billy: Well, put. I wouldn't mind having someone like Urquilla working for me. Military vet with 2 degrees under his belt. What am I thinking?

Maybe coporate America is catching on to the fact that the most productive workers are abroad. cough outsourcing...

Marion:
Apparently I had you pegged wrong, but in the true spirit of sportsmanship: Don't cry when your grocery bill goes through the roof after all the dirty illegals are back where they belong: http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF001974/Jacoby/Jacoby09/Jacoby01s.jpg

linux_chick 8 years, 8 months ago

cali: well, I am half-black and in my experience, most people here are apathetic about race. No one really seems to notice.

It's kind of a high-stress work environment that's time-critical... so people just focus on work. It's great.

I'll be moving back to KU to finish up my degree too, in August.

YourItalianPrincess 8 years, 8 months ago

Marion,

Hey there, long time no talk or see. The roof is fine, but the inside is lacking of course. Things just don't seem to get done around here and I get put on the back burner alot it seems. I just try not to look up at the ceiling anymore.

I'm also from Cali and enjoy living here. My tells me all the time how many people are living there now. Cali just seems to get more and more crowded by the day. I don't plan on going home anytime soon because the cost to live there is getting to high and there are way to many people. I'm all for people making a better living for themselves and their families. There has to be some type of compromise here. You simply can't choose and pick a race and say NO you can't go to the U.S. If theres going to be a law, a decision or whatever it has to include everyone not born and raised in the U.S.

I'm sure there are those who take advantage, but there are also Americans who also take advantage too. You can't pick and choose who comes and stays.

YourItalianPrincess 8 years, 8 months ago

linux_chick,

 My boys are biracial ( mixed with African American like you ) and there are times where I get sneers from people. There are also times where others have said my boys are quite handsome young men. I guess it depends on the ones who were raised with respect for others regardless of the color of their skin.

linux_chick 8 years, 8 months ago

Have a nice swim, Marion.

YIP: Things are getting better, I think. I just feel like I don't get as much attention out here vs. Kansas. My fiance, who is white, is from Dodge City and we can get pretty unconfortable being seen together there.

He agrees that he'd rather raise his kids out here in Cali. Unfortunately (as a born and bred Kansan), I agree.

Liberty 8 years, 8 months ago

Does anyone find it interesting that while the federal government knew that millions of illegal aliens were coming across the border, they puposely did nothing about it and waited until Millions have invaded this country?

Now our wonderful Congress discovered that they have a brain and want to make a law against it so they can really stir up a fight amongst the people that have planted themselves in the USA from Mexico. Sounds like they want a civil war as a diversion with this flood of foreign people they let in illegally.

We should look at what the problem is with the federal government that let all these foreign people illegally cross into this country (since terrorism is such a threat) and why they are exporting our jobs to other countries and letting illegals work in this country and don't collect taxes from them. Also why they waited until now to do something about the illegal invasion of this country from Mexico and have not protected our borders from this foreign invasion.

KsTwister 8 years, 8 months ago

With Congress also dealing with the settlement of 27.5 billion owed the First Native Americans (for land trust misuse); I refuse to believe that people not in a position to bargain can demand so much as illegal immigrants. There is right and wrong,don't tell me their education lacks that much.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 8 months ago

Anyone who flies the confederate flag should be deported.

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

It is interesting to see how people came to be in the US. I was born here, and I have to search back to the 1880's before any of my ancestors claims to have been anything other than American. The first to have another nationality is Sioux Indian, then further on back there are several from Ireland, and way before that, Wales.

INS history: http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/articles/OVIEW.htm

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

srj - You have a good point about the Irish during the Civil War.

Given that Iran announced today that it has begun enriching uranium, and seeing that the military has no spare divisions, perhaps the U.S. should draft these aliens to form a force (call it the Grand Army of Persia) of a million troops to occupy Iran. The promise: after two tours of duty, if you survive, you and your immediate family are given citizenship.

Will that settle everyone's concerns? Won't that kill two birds with one stone?

bearded_gnome 8 years, 8 months ago

it is reported in KC that a fellow who went to protest the pro-illegal imigration rally was beaten very seriously by these law-abiding nonu.s. citizens. his sign: "Illegal imigrants are criminals.
go back home." no profanity or abuse.

yesterday morning that is, yesterday morning, on C-span's "washington Journal" (their daily call-in talk show), the democratic party's representative (apparently to promote illegal imigration) said: "we should not criminalize illegal imigrants." apparently, it is official democratic party policy that we should ignore people who break our laws, and our sovreignty, and then call us racist biggots for simply wanting borders which function like any other country in the world, including mexico itself. mexico's imigration controls are far stricter than what the house bill would put in to protect us.
and finally, illegal imigrants, besides being illegal, are taken advantage of (ripped off that is) by unscrupulous employyers), and lower the wages paid in many employment areas of our economy.

I am not a racist, I simply want our country to have borders and reasonable imigration controls; controls which would actually be more humane than mexico's.

bankboy119 8 years, 8 months ago

James, I like that idea...can we also add that they have to take control of the oil in Iran as well? And that if they die, their families will be deported, because then they would not be of any use to us. And, their families will not receive any compensation upon their deaths, because they were not citizens in the first place. That could work.

BTW, that was sarcasm, just in case acg doesn't get it.

yourworstnightmare 8 years, 8 months ago

The nativism on display is astonishing. Funny to hear these comments from the descendants of boatloads of impoverished Irish, Welsh, and and Swedes fleeing a terrible European economy in the 1800s.

The Irish immigrants were at one time considered bad elements and were a threat to the US, with their drinking and fighting and sloth and fecundity and gangs and all.

I guess it is their turn to be stupid.

Jay_Z 8 years, 8 months ago

BAN illegal immigrants. Ain't nothin' legal about illegal immigrants.

Jay_Z 8 years, 8 months ago

Some people just don't understand the word illegal--as evidenced when spin is utilized to call illegals "undocumented immigrants/workers" or just plain ol' immigrants. "Political correctness" has replaced common sense in you liberals!

james bush 8 years, 8 months ago

Keep the illegal aliens! Get rid of arrogant politicians.

Send Hillary and Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Teddy (Chappaquidic) Kennedy, Dicky Durbin, Nancy Pelosie, Al Gore, Chucky Shumer, Howard (the screamer) Dean somewhere where they can't be seen or heard.

Cheney should resign and go back to Wyoming. Bush should resign and live closer to Vincente Fox. Denny Hastert can serve as our new president anf appoint the next republican presidential candiate as his VP.

There's a bunch self-rightious, pompous political demogogues from Wash D C, who masquerade as our senators and congressmen and who are visiting us ignorant voters in the homeland/states on "sping break". Lets let them know that we are thinking there must be good replacements for them too.

Pessimism reigns!!!

james bush 8 years, 8 months ago

I only watch news on tv and listen to conservative radio when i'm in the car. I need to get a life, I guess! Besides I think i'm pessimistic!

james bush 8 years, 8 months ago

About Hastert, isn't he in 3rd line for presidency?

james bush 8 years, 8 months ago

3rd in line after Bush and Cheney resign.

Wilbur_Nether 8 years, 8 months ago

Marion wrote: "What amazes me most about this thread and some of the attitudes expressed is the willingness of many to simply forget that illegal immigration is a CRIME. It's against the law!" which is quite a good point. Illegal immigration is indeed criminal activity, just as is arson, embezzlement, shoplifting, speeding, or overparking. Statutes exist against all these activities. It was President Grant who stated "I know of no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their strict execution."

Wilbur_Nether 8 years, 8 months ago

Incidentally, Reagan provided illegal immigrants an opportunity to become legal immigrants and, eventually, naturalized citizens. Why is it now a bad idea when then it was an appropriate compromise?

Godot 8 years, 8 months ago

I saw a commercial on TV tonite where a woman was stopped by a cop and could not produce an insurance card. Her kids, in their legally required car seats, were chanting, "Mom is going to jail!!!"

Fortunately for her, her insurance agent came to the rescue, personally delivering an insurance card to keep her from going to jail.

Where are the cops that go after people from other countries who have trespassed our borders, who drive without insurance, who do not have drivers licenses, who are hired without legitimate social security numbers?

All US citizens who have been harrassed by insurance and tax laws, UNITE!!!!! REFUSE TO BE INTIMIDATED AND HARRASSED BY THE INEQUAL ENFORCEMENT OF US LAWS!!!

DO NOT FILE YOUR TAX RETURN!!! Why should you? Millions of illegal aliens are not required to. Why should you?

April 15 should be celebrated as a day of liberation. Until all are required to file, NO ONE SHOULD FILE!!!!!

Wilbur_Nether 8 years, 8 months ago

happygolucky wrote: "I was under the mode of thought that ENGLISH was the national language in the US."

Which mode of thought is wrong, since there is no national language in this country. Rep. Tiahrt has supported legislation to make English the national language, meaning that Rep's Moore, Moran, and Ryun...have not. Furthermore, Kansas also does not have an official language. English is the official language of Missouri, Arkansas, and California, among others.

Wilbur_Nether 8 years, 8 months ago

conservativeman wrote: "Tax them and cut off their welfare benefits. Encourage them to join the military and contribute to our collective defense. They can be part of the solution instead of the problem."

Cool idea! And it worked so well in the American colonies during the 18th century!!

happygolucky 8 years, 8 months ago

Wilbur, say it ain't so. Why the hell did I have pass english to make it out of high school? I didn't know it was any other language. Any way, Kasas is not a border state and it took this long for the mexicans to invade to here. If it had been the Ruskie's during the cold war, it'd been like Red Dawn.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 8 months ago

Godot, You don't get arrested for not having proof of insurance. You get a ticket, get a court date, and if you have insurance and show that proof at court, it's all dropped. If you don't have insurance, you're screwed.

But I get your point. Kind of like the 82-year-old woman today who was given a ticket and fined over $100 because she couldn't get across the street before the light changed. The officer said she was obstructing traffic. They even had some high school kids try it, and even running they couldn't make it across before the light changed.

The cops can do this kind of nonsense, but they can't seem to find and arrest even one illegal immigrant.

mom_of_three 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh, my. There are illegal immigrants who have lived in this country for many years, and have established homes and jobs. Why send them back now? Obviously, they came here to find something better, and if they are working, and obeying laws, then they have contributed to society, which is something even some Americans can't do.
Enact the law for illegal immigrants and enforce it from existance.
Put yourself in their shoes and think about what you would do in their situation.

shanefivedyes 8 years, 8 months ago

I just finished reading through the post's, and believe a few illegal immigrants have infiltrated the reader's forum.

immigrant 8 years, 8 months ago

There are at least 11.1 million unauthorized migrants in the US. It would cause a disaster in our country to just send all of them home, and it would be impossible to put them all in jail. Unauthorized migrants make up 14 percent of the construction and farmworkers in the US. If we jail them, how will we meet that labor need?

Unauthorized migrants DO pay taxes. Usually, they have an SSN or a temporary taxpayer ID, and they and their employers pay taxes.

Unauthorized and Authorized migrants are both INELIGIBLE for social services such as welfare and food stamps. Authorized migrants who have been in the country for five years can apply for some programs, but unauthorized migrants can not.

Get your facts straight before ranting on and on and on.

shanefivedyes 8 years, 8 months ago

Just like I said illegal Immigrants have infiltrated the readers forum. Proscute the people/company's that are doing the hiring,Then worry about the $3.00 head of lettuce. Im willing to pay!!!

immigrant 8 years, 8 months ago

You might be willing to pay more for lettuce, and I am sure you can find free trade organic lettuce somewhere for $3.00 a head. However, the companies are not willing to pay more for labor, or to provide better working conditions for their employees. Thus, they rely on an unauthorized (and thus exploitable and temporary) workforce.

Your anger should not be directed towards those who are being exploited, but those who are doing the exploiting. However, as you suggest, we also benefit from the hyper-exploitation of unauthorized immigrants through the low prices we pay for agricultural products in the USA.

immigrant 8 years, 8 months ago

Would you mind posting the source of these numbers? I find them to be inflated.

I believe it is true that 30% of all federal prisoners might be Latinos/as, but not all Latinos/as are immigrants, and most Latinos/as are US citizens. So, are you sure about that figure?

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