Archive for Monday, October 17, 2005

Bible, science

October 17, 2005


To the editor:

Leonard Krishtalka's at it again (Journal-World, Oct. 13). He gave two reasons why the Bible wasn't scientific or true and one proving evolution to be scientific and true. He says the Bible teaches that the sun rotates around the Earth, therefore, it is untrustworthy when it comes to science. I can tell you that meteorologists today are teaching the same thing. Look at the weather section of today's paper and it will give you the exact time of the sunrise and sunset. Should we infer from this that modern science teaches the sun rotates around the Earth? Under Krishtalka's reasoning we should.

He also says the Bible isn't scientific because Leviticus 11 teaches that bats are birds. Look at the context of that passage and then look up the Hebrew word for bird used in that passage. It literally means "winged creatures." It may have escaped his notice that bats have wings and they are creatures. The Bible is not wrong, but Krishtalka is.

Thirdly, Krishtalka says that because monkeys and humans share 98 percent of their genetic makeup, this proves humans evolved from monkeys. Really? A Volkswagen Beetle and a Hummer share 98 percent of their makeup. Through Krishtalka's line of reasoning, we can say that Hummers evolved from a Volkswagen. It seems more logical to say that the Hummer and Beetle shared a common master designer.

To many of us, it seems more logical that the monkey and humans share a common designer that uses common building blocks of life for all his creatures. But there again, it really depends on what you believe.

Stan Helweg,



Richard Heckler 12 years, 8 months ago

How many times has the bible been updated and by whom?

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

The car evolution thing is ridiculous and hopefully Stan realizes this. Seriously, that is so stupid.

Jamesaust 12 years, 8 months ago

Much as Karl-Maria Kertbeny invented the word "homosexual" in the latter 19th century. But shhh!!! Don't tell the fundamenalists unless you want an argument - after all, its right there in the Bible written out in the King's English just like Moses (a/k/a, Charleton Heston) spoke.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Your linguistic analogy is absolutely in no way more convincing. It's still apples and oranges. You can find that progresion in any language, especially the ones that share a common ancestor language. Look at French Spanish and Italian, all romance languages derived from Latin. If anything it is evidence FOR evolution of any kind, the evolution of language and culture. Further that backs up evolutionary psychology, an important part of modern evolutionary theory in general. Your example appears to perhaps be coincidence, not evidence against anything. I bet there are many more examples there, doesn't mean anything here.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Yes they can, and they have, guess you missed the memo on that (or a legitimate science education). It's not just the DNA, it's the fossil record. It is not a coincidence that much and mucho sound alike and mean the same thing. There are many words that do the same. All languages come from common ancestors in one form or another. Look, if you can't accept that you did in fact evolve from a common primate ancestor, that's fine. Maybe in fact YOU didn't and you exist as an as yet unexplained anomoly of human existence. YOU were put here by Satan to place pseudo-intellictual garbage among realistic and rational people. Can you disprove that? I can't, at least you haven't given me any evidence thus far.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

Acceptance of the theory of evolution does not mean a "belief" that our ancestors are monkeys. Accepting that a preponderence of available evidence indicates that there was a common ancestor for apes and humans is not a "belief." "Belief" and "faith" are the province of religion, not science.

But your whole life is a matter of faith, Kevin, including rooting for your political team no matter how much they screw up, so I'm not surprised by your attitude on this, either.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

The theory of evolution is based on the evidence that exists, not on evidence that doesn't exist. From the evidence that exists, a common ancestor is the most logical conclusion.

Science and scientists don't care about your or anyone else's religion, but they are very adamant that religion not be passed off as science, which is the fraud that you and other ID/creationists wish to perpetrate.

That the neocons are showing signs of abandoning Bush (and you are jumping on that bandwagon) doesn't impress me as independence in thought or action.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

Your point is irrelevant. If a common ancestor is found, it will reinforce the existing theory. If substantial evidence is found that casts doubt on the theory, it may be revised-- and ID does not do that.

I'm actually a little surprised that you have figured out that it's possible to have qualified support for a politician. That was always my attitude of Clinton. Glad to hear that you are no longer an uncritical supporter of Bush. Maybe now you'll find it possible to admit his many other failings.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

Well, I am a bozo. Too bad the ignorance you typify is so widespread, cause that really ain't funny at all.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

If a case is made that Spanish and English are related languages strictly on the basis of the similarity of "much" and "mucho," it would be insupportable. But there is much (mucho) more data available to make that case.

Likewise, the case for evolution (and for a common ancestor for humans and apes) does not rely on a single piece of data. But I'm sure that won't stop you from repeating your silly little piece of trivia, since that is your long-standing MO in arguing anything and everything.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

"Trouble is, you probably have no idea why"

Man, too bad you're the only one who truely does not get why this refers to yourself, not those you thow it at.

Your "Latin" reference is absurd. YES there IS a "Latin" as YOU refer to it in evolution. But since you haven't studied linguistics in any formal fashion, you'd realize that Germanic and Latin also share a common background, as do all languages. It all goes back farther than you're willing to go. YOU evolved from a common primate ancestor. YOU can't accept that, I'm sorry, that sucks, living in denial and all, "Oh, I'm so special, God made me just the why I am, pass me some crumb cake would ya?" Have your cake and eat it too. Maybe a unicorn will serve it to ya. And maybe one will, but no worries, it's just the LSD, it's guaranteed. I have met few, if none on this website who are as self-righteous, black and white world viewing, and showing a ridiculous inability to accept anything besides what you already believe. No wonder you get into so many arguments with others, and heretofore has not yet provided even a molecule of reason in any response. Like I said, maybe you didn't evolve from a primate ancestor, certainly would explain a few things. . .

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Oh wow, I'm soooo impressed. 30 words, huh? That beats me, guess I should concede. . . Coincidence of same meaning of words in a language is not evidence against evolution. I don't need to give you a science ecucation here little guy, go back to grade school, just make sure it ain't in Kansas these days. It ain't a question of faith, so I won't go into the family tree to educate someone who isn't capable of being educated in the first place. Don't for a second try to placate me with demands for desired 'evidence'. Such wouldn't please you anyway, you're beyond any reason or rationality, despite YOUR 'education'. It's for souls like yours that this debate is about, we hope to see less of such obsequious fellas as yourself in the world, thus the backing of true science you obviously can't understand. Sorry. You are hopeless, enjoy the world in black and white, too bad you'll never see the color so essential for evolution, too bad in your world there is so much defecation and you are so. . . stupid.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

I hope you're not really as stupid as your last few posts would imply.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, too busy explaining string theory to my cat right now, but when I finish with that, I'll be up to the much (mucho) bigger challenge that you have posed.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Dude, why can't you get it? What 'evidence' am I gonna give you online that would make any difference? This isn't the place to get into detail. The small arguments we make here are the point, not evidence. And what could I say anyway that would convince someone like you? Someone who obviously doesn't even understand rational argument. Comparing the apples of evolution to the organge of language? Please. I don't wanna go into any details for you, you simply wouldn't get it anyway, so long with you. And to clarify, I technically did not use the ad hominem fallacy because I wasn't making any argument in stating the obvious. And if you think I was, what're ya gonna do about, go cry to your republican Christianist ideologues? What a joke.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Look, I don't like you, your stupid antiquated beliefs, your fairy tale world, or that great big hole in your head I suspect you use to preach this garbage to anyone with two working ears. I don't need your link to fill me in, I took many courses in college over logic, reason, and argument. I don't care if I resort to the ad hominem fallacy or not, I'm not attempting to make a formal argument on a valid stage. How bout this one, you are a complete idiot who isn't emotionally or rationally stable enough to accept the fact that you evolved from an ape like ancestor, along the lines of Australopithecus afarensis or anamensis (there's your precious evidence). YOUR arguments suck. You are a moron, check and see if you might have 3 copies of your 21st chromosome. Do you ever wonder why so many people on here argue with you? No wait, don't answer that, I DON"T CARE.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

It was, good thing it was just a drop in the bucket huh? Obviously you don't have parents, God magically created you just the way you are. How special, how wonderful. Oh wait, you just used the ad hominem fallacy! Hypocrite! I bet your closet is full of more skeletons like that. I'm guessing one wears purple. So tell me, when did you know? High school? GRADE school?

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

Is that a threat? You be careful there fella. I have nothing to hide, nothing illegal that is. You wanna go in that direction you better be ready to face my family's lawyers. Trust me, I will not tolerate this crap. Libel is a bitch, not to mention illegal. The cousin of libel is hearsay, I'd hope for your sake you know the difference. Be careful, you're in very dangerous territory now and I will not withhold any resource to fight a harmless online discussion with serious adjudication.

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

That was a response to a threat you fool. Any kid makes mistakes, I'd guess from you closet there are a few you'd not like to be let out. You obviously have no experience in the insanity plea, must I suggest mens rea? Let me know what you got, I have done nothing to be that embarassing, let me cover the basics, I smoked a ton of pot, I did mushrooms, in terms of drugs that's it. I had sex, but there's few who haven't. Careful with anything else, it makes no difference if it's my parent's lawyers or mine (don't go for my parent's, they'll destroy you). This discussion on this topic is over, you haven't anything to say on it. Bonzo and observer know where the score is.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

You aren't after a discussion, Kevin. Your arcane and irrelevant BS about "much" and "mucho" is nothing more than that. I called you on it, and you do your usual of taking the thread on some tangent about what the meaning of "is" is.

Still pathetic after all these years.

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