To the editor:
In his Aug. 25 letter, Art Hadley accused me of lying and of taking Cindy Sheehan's words ("This country is not worth dying for.") out of context. Hadley said Sheehan was referring to Iraq, not America.
Here is the context of Sheehan's statement (as reported at www.discoverthenetwork.org/Articles/Stewartrally.htm):
"I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people, like my sister over here says, since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that (male bovine excrement) to my son and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms: This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq. We might not even have been attacked by Osama bin Laden. Sept. 11, 2001, was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through and, if I would have known that before my son was killed, I would have taken him to Canada. I would never have let him go and try and defend this morally repugnant system we have. The people are good, the system is morally repugnant."
I'll leave it for readers themselves to decide if Sheehan was referring to America or Iraq when she said, "This country is not worth dying for."
Kevin Groenhagen,
Lawrence
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Art (anonymous) says…
Kevin:
You took two sentences from that quote and pasted them together to deliberately create a false context.
The two sentence phrase you sent the Journal World, purportedly as a contiguous quote, also appears word for word on over 700 right wing web sites.
That is not accurate. It is not accidentally distorted. It's a deliberate misquote, designed to stir anger and hatred against one person. It's the famous Right Wing Echo Chamber. You knew the sentences were out of context, you copied the quote from a right wing web site, you wrote a letter portraying that as a complete and accurate quote.
That's what I said you did in my letter.
And that's what you did.
If you think that's lying, then you lied. If not, then I never accused you of lying.
Your attempt at Rovian misdirection changes nothing. No matter how much you pretend this argument is about what Cindy Sheehan meant, it's not. It's about you deliberately distorting the truth.
Here's the point: YOU knowingly sent a false quote to this newspaper, and for that you owe the people of Lawrence an apology.
And you did that to hurt one person. You did it to join the gang of bullies punching Cindy Sheehan for daring to speak her mind. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Lepanto1571 (anonymous) says…
Art,
Pathetic. Cindy Sheehan does not believe this country is worth dying for. This is known as a fact; something typically very inconvenient for effete, aging, hipster revolutionaries to have to deal with.
Sheehan: "America has been killing people, like my sister over here says, since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction."
I guess I'll assume that all soldiers of all of America's wars have, in fact, died in vain according to the omniscient Cindy Sheehan. Pathetic, that this (and, of course, the reknown Michael Moore) is where the opposition must turn to galvanize "progressive" political momentum.
You people never cease to amaze me the level to which you will stoop in the name of that "progress."
My friend, LTC Erik Kurilla was just wounded this week in Mosul, in an alley way shoot out with a terrorist and shot three times. While he lay with a shattered femur in the right leg, he was returning fire and attempting to direct soldiers to the fight. The terrorist was "subdued" and was revealled to be none other than Kalid Jasem Nohe who, as it turns out, had been released from custody last December from Abu Ghraib, thanks, in part, to the "valiant" journalistic effort of your ilk in the MSM, to break up a panty raid.
Your pathology (Bush-hatred) sir is understandable in light of a weak-kneed, modernist, dim-wit pop-culture that has now redefined courage as dissent, because you lack the fortitude to actually display traditional notions of manly courage. Erik Kurilla, CSM Prosser, and the brave soldiers of Duece Four exhibit daily what you can't fathom on a day where you actually feel your oats.
To a man they see the justness of their mission and you couldn't tear them away with wild horses. There are fallen comrades to avenge and a mission to complete. Pretty hard for somone like you to understand, because dignity, honor and courage are nothing but words on a keyboard to you.
If you can't bring yourself to say thanks, have the dignity to shut your pie hole, stay out of the way, and let men better than you do their job.
To the men of Duece Four and the rest of the coalition, hat's off! Cindy Sheehan will be yet another irrelevant democratic patsy on the trash heap of history, but not her son!
Casey Sheehan, we'll see you on the other side. Your Mom won't ruin your legacy, many of us (to include your own family) know the truth.
Lepanto1571
For full story go to:
http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/
shanefivedyes (anonymous) says…
you guys need to go to bed at night
BrianR (anonymous) says…
Sheehan is clearly talking about Iraq. Anyone who would stand against an invading army with a rolling pin is certainly prepared to die for this country. I know that you didn't think of this non-story by yourself, it came from right-wing media. Technically you just repeated a lie. Now you want to play the victim.
Priceless.
You should just call Jerry Springer and get it over with. You and Art, dueling pistols or maybe rolling pins, ten paces...
Carmenilla (anonymous) says…
I like it when Arminius talks about what Groenhagen says. Since they are one and the same person. MPD much?
Go on and contribute something REAL to the world, Kevin, instead of giving people the "Swift Boat Treatment". Heck, with all the time you spend arguing your inane point of view your kids are probably wishing you spent more time with them.
On that note I'm going outside to play with my kid. You should think about redirecting your energy towards something that really matters.
And stop speaking on behalf of Casey Sheehan. You do yourself even more harm by "theorizing" about his motivations for re-enlisting.
Now bring on the ad hominum attacks about what an uninformed effete hippie liberal I am.
*yawn*
BrianR (anonymous) says…
So if Sheehan is talking about Iraq, her statements are then 'racist.' That's a nice change of subject.
You're embarrassing yourself. I can't watch anymore.
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
(Pop-psychologist that I am), I am intrigued by a different aspect of the author's cited quotation: I would have taken him to Canada; I would never have let him....
I've been mystified at this individual's unusual extreme in her manner of grieving. Of course, I cannot tell anyone how to go about grieving. And people all grieve in differing ways. But this clearly quite leftish woman (not that there's anything wrong with that) has gone about her own process in an strikingly flamboyant manner (no doubt magnified in perception by the attention of August duldrums media who find hardnosed journalism ... err...hard).
The best that I can figure out, she has a lot of anger and resentment towards her son for being in the military, for volunteering for it, for his continual participation in it, for his gullibility to align himself with a war machine. Yet, in the midst of her loss, she cannot bring herself to despise her son for getting himself killed and has infantilized him (I would not have let him...) and transferred her rage to others, mixing it all up with her general 'peacenik' political beliefs. Ultimately, it's a way of avoiding reality and, while a person in a more normal situation might find her way back when she's ready to get used to being a mother without her son, I fear that those so eager to use her for their owns ends will sufficiently corrupt her to prevent her ever really finding a healthy way to go forward with her life.
merrill (anonymous) says…
Kevin "Arminius" Groenhagen,
You are a master of spin and distortion. You read into her words what you believe she meant for purposes of character assassination. I've listened to Cindy speak about 5 times. This woman is not a polished speaker and seems to become nervous with news media microphones in her face.
This is a mom who cares about her son and rightfully is asking legitimate questions of our president as are millions around the world. Yes I know you worship Pres. GW Bush however that does not allow you the benefit to destroy a mom who disagrees with the presidents policy on Iraq for your personal gain. You do not know this person. She knew her son better than most anyone else on the planet. According to a radio interview she spoke with him everyday while in boot camp. There are a lot of mothers who lost sons and daughters standing beside her in Crawford who were interviewed Friday. Some mothers there have children currently enlisted. They do not believe this Iraq confrontation is legitimate.
She has never stated that tracking down
the 9/11 terrorists was wrong or that she did not support that effort. The fact is neither Iraq nor Afhanistan declared war on the USA. A large band of terrorists did and if the news is correct they are just about everywhere in the world and that should be our focus. We should be working with our allies and their intelligence as a covert action team. However we are bogged down in Iraq.
The terrorists had plenty of warning that we were coming because President Bush did not know how to handle the situation which is why the so called leadership Bin Laden is nowhere to be found .
Is Iraq worth dying for? Obviously the insurgents think so. After all it is their natural resources that we want to control.
Do I belive americans should be dying in Iraq? Of course not that's why I keep saying bring them home. You on the other hand believe americans should be dying in Iraq yet you have failed to re-enlist...you are not too old.
Have you spoken with her personally on this matter? If so what was her reply?
merrill (anonymous) says…
Just to keep matters fair and balanced:
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/...
merrill (anonymous) says…
I believe Reagan/Bush provided some forms of WMD's to Iraq while they were doing battle against Iran. A friend shared a newsweek story with me sometime back which stated that Iraq disposed of our WMD's during the Clinton years hopefully to avoid further major military conflict from the U.S.
What countries HAD and what a country may now have are two completely different things. Old intelligence is not good enough for declaring war on a country who did not declare war on the USA. The most up to date intelligence is required when declaring war on a country who did not delare war on the USA. The inspections said no WMD's which was our absolute most up to date intelligence. Guess it's time to take out Pakistan?
The no fly zone imposed by the U.S. accompanied by intense surveillance basically restrained Iraq from being a serious threat to most any other country. We were taking out radar
and anti aircraft sites frequently.
Everyone supports action against the 9/11 terrorists which should have been a more quiet form of covert activity with our allies and their intelligence. The element of surprise is far more effective than loud boistrous name calling and saying the USA is coming to get you. This is nothing less than politics.
9/11 terorists had no connection to Iraq. al Qaeda, according to the news, had connections to Afghanistan,Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia(on the plane&financing) with cells in Brazil etc etc etc. Yes Cindy Sheehan supports action against the 9/11 terrorists.
Boot camp may have changed since you and I participated
however before you call her a liar you should discuss with her those details. My comment was the result of a radio interview.
Go down and re-enlist. Respectfully request Iraq duty. What have you got to lose?
Walking_Dude (anonymous) says…
Have you ever seen Karl Rove in his bondage gear, Kevin?
Walking_Dude (anonymous) says…
Wow, the Kaw Valley Small Business Monthly! What a truly reputable source. Great journalism there guy. Did you even take the time to see who the editor of this garbage is? It's a right winger named Kevin Groenhagen, who got his ass handed to him in a 1996 Kansas house campaign by a Democrat 7200-50. No wonder he's bitter.
Walking_Dude (anonymous) says…
Bot meets bot and the whole world goes to sleep.
boycott the kaw valley small business monthly and everybody that advertises in it.
Do it because you hate Bush.
majic12 (anonymous) says…
What would you know or care about facts?