Downtown Lawrence merchants say the signs are everywhere — even on their rooftops — that the city’s homeless problem is out of control.

About 25 members of Downtown Lawrence Inc. on Thursday morning peppered city officials with suggestions for tough new measures to deal with the homeless and loiterers.

The merchants and business owners told city officials of homeless people who intimidated customers with “aggressive panhandling,” and groups of people who routinely spend the night and part of the day camping on the rooftops of their businesses.

“I’ve been in this building for three years, and I have people on my roof almost daily,” said Dawn Thompson, an owner of Children’s Orchard, 742 Mass. “It concerns me to no end.”

Several other business owners said they also have had to chase people — sometimes homeless, sometimes teenagers — off roofs. They often gain access to the roofs via a fire escape. Once on one roof, people usually can easily get to all the roofs on a block.

Bad reputation

What is happening on the sidewalks and in the alleys of downtown, though, have businesses even more concerned. Peter Zacharias, of Goldmakers, 723 Mass., told of finding his shop’s back door set afire. Win Campbell, of Winfield House, 835 Mass., told of routinely seeing people use Dumpsters as public bathrooms. Almost all business owners said they had seen potential customers turn and walk the other way because a panhandler intimidated them.

“We have to start sending a message that this type of behavior isn’t going to work anymore,” said Bob Schumm, owner of Buffalo Bob’s Smokehouse, 719 Mass., and Mass Street Deli, 941 Mass.

Downtown Lawrence Inc. members gave city officials copies of several ordinances adopted in other communities.

Dawn Thompson is one of several downtown business owners who have been complaining about the amount of trash in the alleys and rooftops left behind by homeless people. Thompson, owner of Children's Orchard, 742 Mass., says she spends hours every week cleaning up.

For example, Seattle has adopted an ordinance that makes it illegal to sit or lie on a public sidewalk from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. In San Francisco it is illegal for a solicitor to closely follow and request money from people who have made it known they don’t want to be solicited.

But city officials said dealing with panhandlers and other disruptive people in downtown was difficult.

Police Chief Ron Olin told the crowd that most of the time it was difficult to get a conviction in court if the activity wasn’t observed by the police officer or a witness willing to testify in court. That’s why many times when a complaint against a disruptive panhandler is made, police do not issue a ticket but tell the person to move along.

“There is a tremendous difference in perception between someone saying ‘will you give me a dollar,’ and someone saying ‘give me a dollar,” Olin said. “One is aggression and one is free speech. We try to balance those elements in each case.”

Downtown merchants also said they recognized there were unique situations to take into account. Several said they weren’t looking to prohibit street musicians who play for tips along Massachusetts Street.

Pat Mathis, an unemployed Lawrence resident who recently began singing for tips, was glad to hear he wasn’t being targeted.

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“I think it adds some character to have music downtown,” Mathis said.

Maria Martin, executive director of Downtown Lawrence Inc. and an owner of Southwest & More, 727 Mass., said the organization wasn’t trying to sound uncaring about people who were struggling.

“We all have good hearts,” Martin said. “We want to help people help themselves. Some of these ordinances may actually help people do that.”

‘Handout on every corner’

David Corliss, assistant city manager and the city’s director of legal services, said business owners should consider whether tougher ordinances would alter the behavior of people causing problems. He said the ordinances usually would result in a misdemeanor fine from $50 to $100.

“You have difficulty collecting money from a transient,” Corliss said.

Some business owners said more than ordinances were needed.

“We need to cut the services,” said Phil Dwyer, an owner of D and D Tire Co., 1000 Vt. “We didn’t have the problem until we had a handout on every corner.”

In particular, Dwyer said he thought the nearby Lawrence Open Shelter was creating more problems than it was solving downtown.

The shelter, which is a little more than a year old, has been criticized because it does not require its residents to take a breathalyzer test before they are allowed to stay overnight. That is different from the policy at the Salvation Army, 946 N.H., which does not allow intoxicated people to stay in its shelter.

But Loring Henderson, the Open Shelter’s director, said the agency, 944 Ky., was helping solve the city’s homeless problem.

“We certainly want to work with downtown Lawrence businesses, but I can only say that I don’t feel the Open Shelter has contributed to the problem,” Henderson said. “It doesn’t seem logical to me that when you have a place where there are 21 people who have a place to stay inside for the night, rather than being on the streets, that you’re contributing to the problem.”

On Thursday, Mark Cline was among the homeless residents out on Massachusetts Street. He had a sign telling people about how his doctor wouldn’t provide him services until he paid money upfront.

He said he wasn’t technically asking people for money, but that he would accept donations if people were so inclined. Cline said he didn’t usually see activity that should scare shoppers or other downtown visitors.

“It probably just depends on the part of the country you’re from if you find any of this intimidating,” he said. “There is a culture from Johnson County that is fairly snobbish and intolerant. People who are from that culture are probably the ones doing the complaining.”

Downtown Lawrence Inc. members said they planned to take their ordinance suggestions to the city’s Task Force on Homeless Services. The task force is expected to deliver a report to city commissioners in February.