photo by: Chad Lawhorn/Journal-World

Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel spoke about world affairs at the Dole Institute of Politics on Oct. 3, 2024.

Among the hot debates in the U.S. presidential campaign, there is this nuanced one regarding China: Should we crush them or should we pulverize them?

A former U.S. Secretary of Defense told a Lawrence crowd Thursday night that American leaders of both parties need to entertain new lines of thought about China.

“The way I describe China, I wouldn’t say it is an enemy. It is a competitor,” Chuck Hagel, a former U.S. Republican senator and a former Secretary of Defense in the Obama administration, told a crowd at the Dole Institute of Politics on KU’s West Campus. “I don’t think we want to push this concept that China is our enemy.”

None of that is to say that Hagel is naive about China’s ambitions or tactics. He said he knows it is quickly building its military, it steals technology from America, and is run by a dictator in Xi Jinping, whom Hagel met with during his tenure in the Obama administration.

Hagel said he had tough, direct conversations with Xi over maritime rights and other fundamental security issues that America can not compromise. He said American leaders must never back down from those tough discussions with China, but he said that doesn’t mean the U.S. has to assume an enemy-like posture with the Chinese.

“Where we can cooperate, let’s cooperate,” Hagel said.

The former two-term U.S senator from Nebraska has seen some of the benefits of U.S.-China trade deals in past years, and he’s wary of an attitude where the two countries believe cooperation on any matter is impossible.

“If you get in a race with China where we say they are our enemy, that will not end well,” Hagel said.

Plus, he said China may be looking for opportunities to work with the West more so than many people expect. Hagel said China cannot be feeling good about several of its alliances, currently.

“They are on a losing course playing footsie with Putin,” Hagel said, referencing China’s alliance with Russia and Vladimir Putin. “That is a disaster. They know it. Putin’s economy is a basket case, and it is going to continue to be a basket case.”

Hagel said China also must be feeling discomfort about the role Kim Jong Un’s North Korea is playing in the world, as it becomes a more important ally to Russia.

“They are scared to death of the crazy kid in North Korea,” Hagel said. “Do you want this to be one of your best allies? China has some big internal problems too. So let’s be smart with how we deal with China.”

photo by: Chad Lawhorn/Journal-World

Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel spoke about world affairs at the Dole Institute of Politics on Oct. 3, 2024.

Hagel said he thinks the Biden administration has largely taken the right approach with China, but he worries whether that approach will continue to carry the day. Moderator Jerry Seib, former executive Washington editor for The Wall Street Journal, asked Hagel whether he thought former President Donald Trump would continue to support the international alliances that Hagel sees as key to working with China, if he is elected president.

“No, I don’t,” said Hagel, who is among a group of Republicans who have held top defense positions who have endorsed Kamala Harris for president. “The red cap he wears all the time, what does it say: Make America great again. Screw the rest of the world. He says that all the time.”

Hagel, however, also acknowledged that it is not just Trump who is pushing for more isolationism in U.S. foreign policy. There are wings of both parties that see a need for a reduced role for America in matters of foreign policy.

Hagel said such isolationism is one of the country’s more dangerous trends, and he said its beginnings go much deeper than politics. He said a shift in U.S. public education toward preparing students largely for technical degrees and technical jobs has led to less teaching of history, geography and other subjects that promote a broad worldview.

He said American leaders need to do more to communicate to the general public the importance of America remaining a leader and highly engaged on the world stage.

“If we don’t stay ahead of this game, we will find ourselves exactly where we found ourselves in 1941, only the timeframe will be different because of the weapons of today,” Hagel said, referencing the beginning of America’s involvement in World War II. “It goes back to my point about education.

“We have to help educate people in this country about how did World War II come about. We were an isolationist country in the 1930s. We said ‘Hitler’s never going to bother us.'”

photo by: Chad Lawhorn/Journal-World

Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, right, and modertor Jerry Seib, left, spoke about world affairs at the Dole Institute of Politics on Oct. 3, 2024.