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LJWorld.com weblogs Rolling along

Posted by Andrew Hartsock April 27, 2009 at 8:54 a.m.

We can't all just get along

The other day, a bicyclist ran a red light and was hit by a car, and within hours of it being posted on our Web site, a friend sent me an e-mail asking if I’d seen the story. He wanted to know my response.

“My response?” I wrote back. “I don’t really have any. If you run a red light, you have to live with the consequences.”

A few days later, the Journal-World ran an editorial lamenting the fact that too often cyclists break the laws and aren’t held accountable.

A neighbor asked how I felt being called out by my own paper.

“Called out?” I responded. “I follow the laws. If I don’t, I expect to be held accountable.”

Then a few days after that, the J-W ran a letter to the editor attacking the editorial. The LTE’s author opined that drivers regularly break the laws and aren’t held accountable.

A co-worker asked if I was the author using a pseudonym.

“Why would I do that?” I asked. “Why would I jump in the middle of yet another cyclist-vs.-driver war of words?”

In each case, the online comments were fast and, mostly, furious. Names were called. Cyclists are arrogant and oblivious. Drivers are self-serving and homicidal. Cyclists wear weird clothes. Drivers are unyielding. Cyclists deserve to get crushed. Bikes belong on the sidewalk. No they don’t. Drivers don’t know the laws. No, cyclists don’t know the laws. No, drivers don’t.

Did not. Did so.

Yawn.

I have to admit, at first I used to get upset reading these items and the comments they spawn. I used to be surprised at the vitriol.

Now I try to avoid ’em like a sneezing pig.

Why? They’re all the same. The tired, old circle repeats itself every time there’s a trigger — usually a cyclist getting hurt. And I read enough and spend enough time at the appropriate online sites to know it’s not a local thing. It’s the same thing everywhere. It’s the same old arguments, the same old hatred.

Where do I stand? What’s my response?

It’s really pretty simple.

By law, I can ride a bike on the road. And I do. By reason, I can do everything in my power to stay out of the way of a two-ton vehicle that may or may not be piloted by a member of the vitriolic anti-bike faction. And I do. If I run a red light or a stop sign, I expect to be held accountable, whether by becoming intimate with a bumper or getting a ticket. And if you break the law, whether in a car or on a bike or a hovercraft or broomstick, I expect you to be held accountable, too.

Sounds simple to me.

Let the flaming begin …

Comments

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  1. Eride (anonymous) says…

    I am a long distance runner so I hold a special hatred in my heart for drivers in Lawrence. They are some of the worst drivers of any city I have ever experienced when it comes to following traffic signals and yielding to pedestrians... and since they pose an ever present and significant danger to my personal safety I tend to focus in on them first and foremost.

    however, at least 90% of the bicyclists I run into while either running or driving do not follow traffic signals. They routinely will swerve in and out of stopped traffic, blow through stop signs/red lights, don't use proper reflectors, ride on pedestrian sidewalks and refuse to give way to pedestrians, etc, etc.

    So while I dislike both drivers and bikers in general I view bikers as being the group with the least amount of respect on the road because of the insanely high percentage of them that are completely oblivious to the rules of the road. The bad drivers are a big minority, they just appear to constitute a larger group because of how well run ins with those few stick in your mind. I am never going to forget every time I have to dive out of the way of a car because it doesn't choose to yield or it decides to run a red light. But almost the entire biking "community" is a problem. I don't really want to call you all out because I know some of you actually do follow the rules of the road but almost all of you don't.

    You would think you bikers would value your lives more then that. I always assume a biker will just run through stop signs, not yield, etc and let them break traffic laws but a lot of other drivers don't... continue being a prick at your own risk... inevitably you shall become a great acquaintance of a cars bumper.

  2. supercowbellninja (anonymous) says…

    So....eride: Was this just a Monday morning rant because you forgot to eat your Cheerios or what? You are proposing a heavier hand on drivers and bikers alike so you never have to break stride at an intersection?

    Be sure and reply, as I've always wanted to know what it feels like to have an entire universe revolve around onesself.

    And for the record, I completely agree with Andrew's take on this whole debate.

  3. Eride (anonymous) says…

    No, it is my early morning rant at the direction of the cycling community who love to place drivers at fault when in reality it is the cyclists who almost never follow traffic laws while most drivers do. I used my personal experiences as a long distance runner as the evidence behind my opinion.

    If you don't like me using a blog to express my personal opinion you can choose to ignore it instead of hurling out personal attacks. You might notice I offered a constructive opinion on the issue, you did nothing but hurl out insults... now who again does the world supposedly revolve around....?

    But if you want to be a child who am I to stop you. I hope you eat, lack of coherent thought and mood stability issues are a sure fire sign of low blood sugar!

  4. Irish (Leslie Swearingen) says…

    In no way does Eride sound like S/he thinks the universe revolves around them. The rude comment was uncalled for.
    I am largely unaware of bike riders. If I am walking and see one on the sidewalk I just smile and wave and yell, hi, how are you doing?
    I have had drivers turn in front of me when I was half way across the street and my light was green. That is scary to me.
    I am hearing more and more people say they are terrified of walking across a street, at a light where it is supposed to be safe.
    Andrew your comment about the posters on this paper was spot on. Didn't take long to prove you right, did it?

  5. grimpeur (anonymous) says…

    Eride wrote: "No, it is my early morning rant at the direction of the cycling community who love to place drivers at fault when in reality it is the cyclists who almost never follow traffic laws while most drivers do."

    Well, you could start with a more realistic premise. If you think most drivers follow the law, including running lights and stop signs along with all the violations that cyclists don't commit (speeding, tailgating, blocking the sidewalks and crosswalks, etc.), then you probably need to pay better attention and not be surprised when you get called out on a ridiculous statement.

  6. supercowbellninja (anonymous) says…

    Eride - Apologies for the personal tone to my previous post. Not my intent.

    Just fanning the flame wars on the trusty ljworld comment threads, where everyone gets offended at the drop of a hat.

    Now could you please reference the part of your original screed you deem "constructive"? Still reads to me like an unhinged rant against most things on wheels based solely on personal accounts.

    For every negative account of an encounter between a bike/car, bike/runner, car/runner I'd bet there is another side to some of these stories that we'll never hear because no one ever comes on here to comment about the well-mannered drivers and cyclists of this town, who I suspect greatly outnumber the bad apples that start these crazy comments.

    As someone who regularly cycles to and from work, I have my fair share of negative me vs. cars stories. But to be fair, I'll admit I've rolled through stop signs now and again and maybe I don't always ride as far right as I could all of the time. That said I stay off major roads whenever possible, take the sidewalk when traffic looks heavy, stop at stop signs when traffic is present, signal my turns and generally try to stay out of the way.

    But man if we aren't quick to demonize drivers and cyclists alike in this endless debate. Let's just all get along as Andrew's blog suggests.

    No one is perfect be they a runner, driver or cyclist.

  7. lawrenceguy (anonymous) says…

    Obviously someone didn't read the article or listen to the advice Andrew presented.

    Using generalties to describe "all motorists" or the cycling "community" will always result in missing the point and offending someone.

    I'd like to point out a distinction between the cycling community in Lawrence and cylcists in Lawrence.

    I happen to be one of the people in the photgraph displayed with this article. The people in this photo and others who were there and not shown are what I refer to as the cycling community. For the most part, they ride their bikes lawfully and safely. They are experienced cyclists who ride thousands of miles per year for fitness and recreation and many belong to organized cycling clubs.

    Is the cycling commuity and perfect? Of course not but as Andew pointed out if they break the law they should be held accountable. Since we don't live in a police state, cyclsts get away with running stops signs and motorists get away with speeding and worse countless times every day. Thats just how it is in America.

    So to my freinds in the cycling community I ask - please follow the traffic laws!

    To amplify Andrews point about the events that trigger the anti-cyclist rants, I'd like to point out the reason the above photo was shot - as part of an article that was written after the death of a cyclist who was obeying the law when he was struck from behind by an inattentive motorist.

    Everyone needs to chill out and re-read the article.
    Thanks Andrew you did a great job of reflecing exactly how I feel about the matter.

    Curtis Martell
    Director
    Free State Racing Team

  8. ylime3499 (anonymous) says…

    I have been reading these articles for the past couple of days, and the comments that come from them and I must say I agree with this one article! I've written and re-written comments and deleted them for the fear of what would come of them. I'm so glad to read someone else’s words who can convey how I feel, as a driver. I think everyone needs to be more aware of their surroundings and realize that if you're playing on the same field as a two ton car... you're taking a risk and should be even more aware of your surroundings. If you're the two ton car it's a privilege not a right. Thank you Andrew! My co-workers and I were discussing this topic and I will be very excited to pass this article on to them!

  9. tumbilweed (anonymous) says…

    The State of Idaho had laws that let bicycles treat a red light like a stop sign, and a stop sign as a yield sign. They still might....

    I think lots of riders just don't know that bikes are held to traffic laws. There are a lot of ignorant people in the world.

    Of course if you are writing here to complain, be sure you have perfectly obeyed every single law yourself, too, before you begin. Otherwise, you're just a...........

  10. jaywalker (anonymous) says…

    Andrew,

    That was a well written, thoughtfully stated piece. You were fair, logical, and rational and made it clear how you look at things.
    And I'm shocked you haven't been lambasted yet!

  11. purplesage (anonymous) says…

    Bicyclists on the road are a hazard. I ride one sometimes, and stay to the r. of the white line that demarks the edge of the roadway. If it is a busy road and it isn't wide enough to do that, don't ride on it.

    Bicycles in the middle of 55MPH paved roads that will NOT move over are a real irritation and hazard. So is the KU cross country or track team, which ever they are, thta run doen the middle of the dirt roads around Rim Rock and won't let traffic through.

    Probably nobody will pay attention so be careful out there.

    And I guess we could gripe about 20' wide farm machinery, too. And motorists who think the road is theirs and they don't have to share. And people who blow school bus stop signs - and cops who speed - I could go on and on.

  12. nobody1793 (anonymous) says…

    Can we all blame skateboarders?

  13. Eride (anonymous) says…

    "Using generalties to describe “all motorists” or the cycling “community” will always result in missing the point and offending someone."

    I tried to avoid this by pointing out that not all cyclists are guilty of the complaints I was speaking of (this statement in my first post for example, "however, at least 90% of the bicyclists I run into while either running or driving do not follow traffic signals") but I can only attest to my personal experiences as a runner and a driver in this town and as I stated above in my experience the majority of cyclists have a complete and utter disregard to traffic laws. I have a feeling you were referencing my first sentence in my second post which was more me taking a jab at the guy who flamed me for really no reason (who I knew was a member of the cycling community and hence his unfair reaction to my post).

    It is really easy to look at drivers and find blame. As I also stated in my first post, I hold a special hatred for some drivers in my heart because of the amount of times that they have almost killed me because they were being reckless and ignoring traffic laws (even though these types of drivers are in the minority it is hard to actually view them as being in the minority because of cognitive bias). So it isn't like I am some road rage driver trying to take out every cyclist I can see. I respect cyclists, I ride my bike occasionally on the road it is just I actually stop and wait my turn at stop signs/stop at red lights/don't weave through traffic/yield for pedestrians/etc. I just can't stand it when cyclists complain about any other group because in my personal experience it is the cyclists who almost never obey traffic laws.

    I am not saying cyclists don't have a right to complain, go ahead, but don't turn around and get an attitude when someone turns around and complains back.

  14. tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgYhfV...

Reply 14 comments from Tangential_reasoners_anonymous 2fat4u Eride Farfle Nobody1793 and 10 others

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