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Police arrest two downtown for gun violations

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Lawrence police this morning seized two semi-automatic guns from a vehicle downtown and arrested two Kansas City, Mo. men on gun violations. (The pictures below were provided by Lawrence Police on their Web site.)![][1]According to Lawrence Police spokeswoman Kim Murphree, police were on patrol shortly before 1:30 a.m. in the parking lot of Borders, 700 N.H., when they saw two weapons in a vehicle. Shortly after 3 a.m., officers made contact with the vehicle's driver, a 21-year-old, and an occupant, age 23. Police seized a Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol with a 30-round magazine and a Ruger Mini-14 with a 100-round magazine. Both guns were loaded with .223-caliber ammunition, police said.Both men were arrested and taken to the Douglas County Jail. The 23-year-old was cited for carrying a weapon near a bar, then released on bond and ordered to appear in court Jan. 3. The 21-year-old was booked into jail on an "aggravated weapons violation" and remained in jail as of this morning.![][2]In the past year, police repeatedly have seized guns from vehicles downtown in the Borders parking lot, which often is used by patrons of Last Call, 729 N.H. In May, someone fired seven gunshots inside the club, but no one was injured.The most recent arrests came the same night that a Kansas Highway Patrol helicopter helped local police patrol the downtown area, a step dispatchers attributed to downtown concerts. More details about the helicopter, including why it was requested and how often it's likely to be used in the future, were not available from police this morning.Contributed by [Eric Weslander.][3] [1]: http://media.ljworld.com/img/blogs/lawrence_blotter/061215_02-06-17173.JPG [2]: http://media.ljworld.com/img/blogs/lawrence_blotter/061215_02-06-17173%20(2).JPG [3]: http://www2.ljworld.com/staff/eric_weslander

Comments

daman 8 years, 2 months ago

I hope all the dopers trust Sigmunds sound legal advice, easy pickin's for the LPD.

esubrett 8 years, 2 months ago

If Last Call gets closed these people will just move to another bar. Who "carries" guns like that with them anyway? I don't know how someone hasn't been killed at that place yet (and I stress yet).

Laura Watkins 8 years, 2 months ago

As an aside and not really relative to the guns the police keep finding in that lot, I was wondering if cars from the Borders lot ever get towed as the signs suggest (they're supposedly towed if they're parked there after midnight).

oldgoof 8 years, 2 months ago

Instead of using all that public money this summer for salaries of law enforcement officials (what 40 officers or so?) and high-tech spy-ware shaking down kids at the Wakarusa festival for pot, (which didn't amount to a hill of beans), I suggest the recent efforts around the Last Call and downtown be continued and/or ramped up. This is the serious stuff.

kshiker 8 years, 2 months ago

That's hilarious . . . All those crazy bookworms are causing so much trouble.

Seriously though, Last Call is a menace and needs to be shut down. Then maybe this thugs will stay away from Lawrence and choose to conduct their nightlife activities in KCK and Topeka.

adky 8 years, 2 months ago

Border's parking lot is private property and LPD have no right to be searching cars there. I hope these guys get good attorneys that can point that out. I'd be mad as h#ll if LPD came in my yard every night to see what I had inside my truck.

Stephen 8 years, 2 months ago

The cops love this, they find 2 guns in a car they get to fly their little helicopter around (by the way kept me up until 4 a.m.) talk about reactionary fools. The only crime those kid being dumb for driving around with guns but then again I'm white, I don't worry about the cops looking in my car when I go to Liberty Hall for say a Sonic Youth concert!!

Confrontation 8 years, 2 months ago

So, the towing companies in Lawrence are okay with stalking those with Bagle crumbs in their cars, but they're scared to tow the car of a Last Call patron. Surely Borders can get the same deal that the Louisiana Purchase owner is getting. Perhaps Borders can offer a $50 gift certificate if the tow truck driver is shot.

Centrist 8 years, 2 months ago

adky ... so you're ok with people running around with these types of weapons?

And you're ok with them going out to bars with weapons?

And you're ok with them hanging around at night with weapons?

Freedom is one thing, but ........

Confrontation 8 years, 2 months ago

By "scary", I assume you mean "non-white." I suggest you stay within your neighborhood and avoid all non-white people. I hate to have you so nervous. Get a life!

Centrist 8 years, 2 months ago

Confrontation .... why the racism paranoia?

By "scary" he might have meant an "element" was there. That is not a description of race, it's about behaviour.

esubrett 8 years, 2 months ago

14 posts before the race card was played on this one. Nice.

wysiwyg69 8 years, 2 months ago

correct me if I'm wrong marion, but if you do not have firearms in view they are considered concealed weapons.

BorderRat 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, I'll bet LPD has been invited to go on the property by the owner. It's not like they had to look too hard to find the weapons. I'm glad the police found these guns, not someone who wanted to put them to use in a shooting spree. 100 rounds of .223 can do a lot of damage, not to mention cause a lot of carnage.

ljrich 8 years, 2 months ago

Why should last call not be open? They didn't put a gun in anybody's hand. Some may not like the crowds that other bars attract, that does not mean they should shut down.

hipper_than_hip 8 years, 2 months ago

Nice pistol! Does anyone know what happens to the guns after the cops arrest the owners? Do the owners get them back, or do the guns get sold, or smashed under a bulldozer, or what?

caseygolf 8 years, 2 months ago

The guns are usually destroyed (melted down) pending the outcome of the charges filed against the violators.

rockchalk77 8 years, 2 months ago

If I remember correctly the only way to legally transport a firearm in a car is if it is locked up and unloaded. That requirement makes it a little difficult to quickly get the gun out and shoot someone, hence all the idiots leaving them in plain sight for easy access in their cars. The police are limited to what they can do, but clearly they are trying.

Given the number of illegal firearms that seem to be continually confiscated, it's a miracle more people haven't been shot and killed in that parking lot.

I'm wondering how this is affecting the property values of the Hobbs Taylor Lofts? I can't imagine constant firearm arrests are good for the local real estate market.

adky 8 years, 2 months ago

I am often downtown when these things are happening, and I am more scared of LPD than I am of these guys. I think you have a better chance of LPD shooting you than some dude at Last Call. When I last checked the score within city limits so far this year was LPD 1 - Citizenry 0 !!!!!!!

GetItRight 8 years, 2 months ago

Actually two people have been shot in downtown Lawrence this year...one died. (Granada, February...ring a bell?) But that's because police wern't doing their jobs, right?

Shots were fired inside Last Call in May and thankfully, no one was injured. Countless guns have been found in vechiles outside that club...some in unlocked cars or in open trunks...police are siezing them so nothing does happen.

timetospeakup 8 years, 2 months ago

marion: who has an FFL down town? Just curious

hipper_than_hip 8 years, 2 months ago

I like guns, but I have to admit that there is little sporting use for a folding stock mini-14 with a 100 rd C-Mag. Guns are usually kept in cases; I wonder if gun cases were spotted, or if the guns were just lying around?

Does anyone know what "aggravated weapons violation" means?

hipper_than_hip 8 years, 2 months ago

Ernst Hardware sells guns, as does Cottins, but that's a little further down Mass.

timetospeakup 8 years, 2 months ago

hipper: they must not have been cased, state transport law preempts local law which would allow me to have those guns unloaded and in a case anywhere in town. Although I guess they probably weren't unloaded, so they'd be illegal.

I can't imagine that a gun case is probable cause to search somebody's vehicle and open a gun case, which leads me to believe they were sitting in the open.

and where is the hand guard for that carbon 15?

kshiker 8 years, 2 months ago

Andini --

That is officially the most idiotic comment that I have ever seen. I sincerely hope for your sake that your comment was sarcasm!

I'm sure crime has become rampant in the area now that a group of condo owners have purchased enormously expensive ($250,000 plus) lofts. I'm sure they or their friends all carry semi-automatic weapons in their vehicles!

This nuisance is clearly the Last Call crowd. Have you failed to read the articles that note the police always wait around the vehicle and typically spot the owner of the vehicle leaving Last Call and heading towards their car in the Borders parking lot?

Close that place down. Move in a nice restaurant or a sports bar/piano bar that will attract a quality crowd.

And this criticism is clearly not racism ... I don't care what color your skin is, if you are carrying a machine gun in your car to a bar, then I don't want you hanging out in my city!

timetospeakup 8 years, 2 months ago

kshiker - it's not a machine gun, the article clearly said they were semi-auto. Gun-knowledgeable people will take you more seriously if you don't call everything a machine gun.

adky 8 years, 2 months ago

kshiker - you may claim not be racist, but you sure seem elitist. If people like you start closing down places just because you don't like the people who patronize it, Lawrence would end up like an even more gentrified Plaza. Piano bar, wtf!

Scott Kaiser 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, When Borders closes up for the night and there are cars on their property, I beleive that constitutes reasonable suspicion... just as if another business was closed and cops saw some cars on their property. They have the right to check it out. You obviously have a deep seated (maybe dangerous) hatred towards law enforcement. Lighten up and be glad they are there trying to protect everyone-even fools like you.

daman 8 years, 2 months ago

It is perfectly legal for LPD to look into cars (from the outside) in the parking lot. Here's the test, would it have been legal for you to look into the car as you walked through the parking lot, keep in mind, whether or not you would is not the issue, but could you? If the answer is yes, then so can LPD. If they see evidence of a crime or contraband in "plain view" while doing what you and I can lawfully do then they can enter the car and seize the evidence. It's that simple. LPD was right in doing what they did and they should be commented for being proactive rather than reactive. Some of you on here just can't stand cops to the point where you get stupid.

daman 8 years, 2 months ago

As far as closing down last call, I don't think so. They play hip-hop (rap) and according to most of you there is no corrolation between rap and violence. Although I don't agree and the evidence would most certainly suggest there is a corrolation, I'm just glad it stays downtown and not out West. Shut down the Last Call and the thugs, excuse me, hip-hoppers will go somewhere else with their guns and I'd rather than stay right where they are, far from me and close to the police station.

Kornphlake 8 years, 2 months ago

It's not every hip-hop show that is the problem, but it's not hard to tell the ones that are going to be problems. Roots would draw a crowd of white college kids, and that doesn't seem so "scary" now does it. Concerts like the one last night are obviously going to draw the crowd that brings assault rifles with them. Maybe we should move those shows out to Tee-Pee junction where there aren't so many bystanders.

Sigmund 8 years, 2 months ago

That is some serious firepower. So far, Last Call has been a great source for finding and getting weapons off of the street. Couldn't be better even if it were planned, could it? Certainly help splains the helicopter activity.

Sigmund 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, by the way you are 110% CORRECT! Don't listen to daman, or the others, they are just tools of the man. If the PIGS go onto Borders parking lot and look in your car without a warrant or your permission, your attorney can get you out of it EVERY TIME. Feel free to leave you guns and drugs in plain sight inside your car, you will beat that rap every time!

Trust me.

hipper_than_hip 8 years, 2 months ago

That Carbon 15 has a fluted barrel and no handguard, so it's good to go. I've never shot an AR-based pistol, but I bet it's louder than anything with that 7" barrel

olmsted78 8 years, 2 months ago

guns violence criminals wannabee's racial profiling highly populated area w/ bar patrons & bystanders sexual solicitation illegal contraband intoxication vehicles heavy police presence w/ a very elevated security posture social angst
atypical social mentality (given the area) street inexperience

 in other words: unstable....not f**king safe

It is yet to be determined if this environment will continue to deteriorate before all our eyes, but so far, the way I see it, it will take a miracle for something tragic NOT to happen here

olmsted78 8 years, 2 months ago

**note to self: Until this place returns back to the scene of a borders parking lot and not the scene of a crime i will not use this lot anymore. thanks

caseygolf 8 years, 2 months ago

Marion -

That is why I said pending the outcome of the violations. Read the post the completely before you react to a post.

daman 8 years, 2 months ago

Sigmund, you're either high right now or just plain dumb. You are dead wrong about the law and what your lawyer will beat "everytime". Scroll back to my "plain view" analysis, that is the law in layperson terms. Fortunately most criminals are idiots and leave their guns and dope in "plain view" for the cops to see. Before any of you take Signmund's legal advise go to Westlaw and search "plain view" and see the 100's if not 1,000's of cases cited where cops lawfully found dope in "plain view" in cars parked in parking lots.

daman 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, I just read your earlier post about you being more scared of LPD than these guys with the guns. Are you serious? You are a nervous little fellow aren't you? You should probably stay indoors where it's safe and the bad police man can't scare you. OR grow up and stop being a dumb ass

Charles L Bloss Jr 8 years, 2 months ago

The kind of idiots that leave weapons in plain view in a vehicle, so when the police shine their flashlights in and see them (which is not only legal, but what the police should be doing) deserve to be arrested. My hope for them is long prison sentences. They certainly didn't bring these weapons for show and tell. These are serious deadly weapons that can kill lots of people in a very short time. The Lawrence police did a commendable job of preventing what could have been a massacre. Thank you, Lynn

neighbal 8 years, 2 months ago

lemme guess the yellow house Sold them these guns

Sigmund 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, don't be fooled by daman's posturing. It is simply a fact that you can leave your guns and dope in plain sight and as long as it is on private property parking lot the PIGS can't do a DARN thing about. And if they are stupid enough to arrest you, you can sue them for false arrest and a CIVIL RIGHTS violation for MILLIONS! Easy money, you'll be set up for life!!

Trust me.

introversion 8 years, 2 months ago

Man, when I moved to Lawrence (and it wasn't all that long ago) people would go out to bars, get drunk, and if you acted a fool, you'd get punched.

The beauty in this is that people get up and go home. They talk about it the next day.

I really don't think people realize that shooting someone changes both people's lives forever.

ScottyMac 8 years, 2 months ago

Um, Sigmund, what is the name of the law school you went to? I think you'd better review your lecture notes before you start giving out legal advice....

First: having contraband in plain view is probable cause, regardless of whether it is on private or public property. If a trained dog senses it, it doesn't even have to be in plain view.

Second: the Borders parking lot is not private property. It's municipal property. Many of the spaces on the east side of the store aren't even in the parking lot. They are legally part of the alley.

Third: even if the lot were private, wouldn't you suppose that the police would have the permission of the property's authorized agent to patrol the lot? I suspect nobody hates Last Call more than the manager of Borders.

a2thek 8 years, 2 months ago

Lets get the story straight here folks. First of all the police did great work and got more guns off the streets. Second, I dont really care if they had probably cause or not being if someone walked by and even saw the guns visibly in the car and called the police that's enough probably cause right there. Lets add up all the murders this year folks and I bet not one points towards Last Call. THey get the hardest rap because they are a hip-hop club yet there has only been one shooting there with nobody hurt. Anyone remember what happened in front of the Granada? LEt me guess, they were down at Last Call and decided to swing up to hear some alternative music at the Granada, yeah right. I know Dennis the owner of Last Call and he brings in huge performers and has told me that people will drive all the way from not only KCMO but St Louis to come to his club. It's amazing that he also owns Coyotes yet all the country boy fights their never get talked about. MY point is, black people carry guns and country boys just like to bottle punch and use their fist. I dont think Dennis can control who comes to his bars, can he? The city has already taken half his business away from him by the stupid smoking ban. So what's Dennis suppose to do? Stop letting blacks in his club and stereo type every single person just because everybody sees blacks so lets all go run and hide. LEts do the math here people on guns, if you look up on numbers on what race and gender is carrying guns right now I think you will be very shocked to find out that many white woman now own their own guns and a high percentage of older white men. Anyway moving forward lets not point fingers here people about ones business or the race card. By the way to get into the Last CAll every single person is patted down heavily before entering and anyone that goes their on a regular basis knows this. Also there are about 15-20 in-house security as well as a security company that Dennis hires out to watch all doors inside and outside in the place and on the inside its under heavy vidio survilance. So actually its probably one of the most safe places that you can go to. What happens when you leave to go home is another story. You can get shot walking out of your house or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Dont blame everything on LastCAll.

ScottyMac 8 years, 2 months ago

Well, under city ordinance, they are contaband if they are within a certain distance from a bar.

icallbullshiat 8 years, 2 months ago

Marion,

Are You and Sigmund sitting in the back of your bike shop smoking weed or something. Both of you need to go back to school and learn how to read a law.

Patrons who park in the Borders parking lot have no reasonable expectation of privacy to the contents that can be seen from the outside of a vehicle. As has been said in earlier posts, this parking lot has general public access and includes city owned parking stalls.

The city ordinance which you refer, 14-408, specifically exempts:

4) An unloaded firearm within a vehicle so long as the firearm is within a container that completely encloses the firearm.

5) An unloaded firearm possessed by an individual who does not contemporaneously possess any ammunition for the firearm contained in any ammunition clip, magazine, speed loader, drum or other device that allows for the rapid loading of the firearm provided that such firearm is not possessed within a drinking establishment.

6) Individuals whose residence is within close proximity to the area where the firearm is possessed if such firearm is not possessed within a drinking establishment.

8) Firearms that only incidentally pass through an area regulated by this section. A firearm incidentally passes through a regulated area if the possessor does not voluntarily interrupt his or her continuous travel through the regulated area. Pausing on the roadway due to traffic control devices or traffic conditions shall not be considered voluntary interruption of travel.

These police officers are to be commended for their actions in removing these weapons from the streets. As far as Marion & Sigmund are concerned, I hope this educates you to the point where you can articulate your arguments more intelligently.

Sigmund 8 years, 2 months ago

adky, don't be fooled by all this talk of city ordinances. It is simply A FACT that you can leave your loaded guns and dope in the front seat of your car and in plain view in a parking lot on PRIVATE PROPERTY and there isn't a DARN thing the STUPID FASCISTS PIGS in this town can do about. The reason the other "pose"-sters are trying to scare you is that they are tools of Carl Rove and ADOLPH BUSH trying take you freedoms away.

adky, they can only succeed if you buy into their BS and HYPE. Ever hear of the RIGHT TO PRIVACY? It's in the CONSTITUTION! (not some stupid city ordinance, ok). If the STUPID PIGS arrest you, you will have a CIVIL RIGHTS case for violating your RIGHT TO PRIVACY and can sue for MILLIONS. You will teach them a lesson you will never forget!

Trust me.

underground_voice 8 years, 2 months ago

All cars in Borders parking lot after 12:00am are subject to be towed. Tow the f'n cars, frank!

Do we know how many parking spots are in Borders lot? All are under the midnight tow policy.

If the problem is "what is in the cars?"

Tow the cars...sort the cars by what is visible from the windows...they come to pick up car...bam...you get the people, the car, and the weapons (if any)!

No cost to the public...just to the owners!

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