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LJWorld.com weblogs Statehouse Live

Roberts, Moran vote against expanded background checks in gun sales

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U.S. Sens. Pat Roberts and Jerry Moran, both Kansas Republicans, voted against gun legislation that would have expanded background checks and other restrictions.

The measure, put together by U.S. Sens. Pat Toomey, a Republican from Pennsylvania and Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia, was in response to the Newtown, Conn., massacre and other mass slayings.

The proposal to expand background checks to sales at guns shows and online received a majority of votes in the Senate — 54-46 — but failed Wednesday to get the required 60 votes needed to advance.

Of the bill, Roberts said, "I believe that Senators Toomey and Manchin came to the table with a sincere proposal, however, I have serious concerns with their legislation, including the expansion of the background check system and government intrusion on private firearm transfers.

"A background check can provide a key line of defense against gun violence, but it must be done in a way that does not infringe upon Second Amendment rights."

The National Rifle Association thanked legislators for defeating the background check expansion, saying it would have criminalized transactions between friends — a charge that supporters of the bill said was untrue.

Roberts said he supported an alternative bill that he said would improve the efficiency and accuracy of the background check system.

Moran did not immediately respond to a request for comment about his vote on expanding background checks.

Comments

Armored_One 12 months ago

So, if this is ALL about Constitutionality, why have we, as a group, tolerated interpretations of the First Amendment but refuse to interpret the Second Amendment in any fashion other than the exact wording, without the option of it being expanded?

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In_God_we_trust 12 months ago

I bet some of those people in Boston without firearms, were wishing they had some firearms at home for family defense and protection while waiting for the police to capture the suspects.

I couldn't believe how the police in Boston were allowed to shoot machine-gun style, the first suspect in a residential area. What ever happened to sharp precision shooting, to capture the suspect for future information?

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donttreadonme 12 months ago

"chicago9520 hours, 59 minutes ago I, too, find Senators Roberts and Moran's votes reprehensible. But demonizing elected officials is a misdirected and useless response. We know "who the heck keeps re-electing these guys." It's our friends and neighbors. The abject failure of community forums such as this, which do nothing to change anyone's minds but rather harden us into primitive tribal allegeances, provides daily evidence of the breakdown of our civic fabric. We need to rebuild from the bottom up. Stop demonizing straw men and start a serious conversation with one another. Find values that you might hold in common. As long as we subscribe to a system of one man(woman)-one-vote, we must earn one another's trust."

Worth reposting. Maybe somebody will read it this time.

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yourworstnightmare 1 year ago

Democrats need to stop pushing this issue. Progress will be made only when the GOP are either voted out of office or decide to act ethically and sponsor gun control legislation themselves.

Either way, it might take a few more mass shootings for these things to happen.

Our politics are far too divisive right now for the democrats alone to make any progress on this issue.

I guess we will see if this affects republicans at the polls come the mid terms.

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jayhawklawrence 1 year ago

Obama demonstrated for me the worst possible leadership on this issue.

The demise of this bill was predictable from the moment he decided to politicize it like an election campaign.

We are seeing both parties unable to take the high road on anything.

There was at one time some room to improve gun safety in a way would achieve a reasonable compromise.

Not now. Not for awhile.

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Dispersant 1 year ago

(let's re-visit a certain argument having to do with the recent i.d. law for voting)

"You need an i.d. for everything! I need to show mine to cash a check, drive, etc.... I find it perfectly acceptable to need one to vote" Can't we use the same discussion for background checks? "I need to pass a background check to rent a house, get a loan, get a job, etc... I find it perfectly acceptable to pass one to buy a gun" ???

How come it's ok to require an i.d. to vote but not pass a background check for acquiring a firearm? Isn't it the same idea?

hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s) n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies 1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. 2. An act or instance of such falseness.

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Robert Kiefer 1 year ago

Nothing stirs the leftist pot quite like the gun control, Just mention it, stand back & enjoy the show! & if I hear one more mention about the innocent children lost to gun violence I will scream bloody murder at the nearest abortion clinic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Jason Johnson 1 year ago

When there's a bombing, we blame the bomber. When there's a drunk-driving accident, we blame the driver. So why, when there's a shooting, do we blame the gun?

5

Centerville 1 year ago

The media blew this one. As soon as there was a school shooting, they turned it into a culture war. For them, it had nothing to do with Adam Lanza, it was a chance to scapegoat their favorite scapegoats. Rather than consider school security, they tried to demonize the NRA for suggesting it. And then the NRA fired back with that marvelous ad! And then the media had a collective, but hilarious, meltdown.

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Whatevs 1 year ago

This is an honest question for any of you.

What kind of system would have to be in place to make sure that no gun could be sold without a background check?

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rockchalker52 1 year ago

There is no intent to create a government gun registry. The government doesn't care about that. If case you haven't noticed, the US military is the best in the world. Should some fantastical event occur wherein a coup directs it to dominate the citizenry, nobody's gonna check some data base to see who owns what kind of firepower. They're just gonna smash you & your 'Red Dawn' fantasies.

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verity 1 year ago

Moran received $3,000 from the NRA in the 2012 election cycle.

Huelskamp $2,150

Jenkins $2,000

Pompeo $2,000

Yoder $4,000

These figures are from the "Open Secrets" website. The figures for our Reps are on the low end of the amounts received by many other U.S. representatives. Token maybe, because the competition wasn't that intense?

It appears that Pat Roberts didn't receive any contributions from them or at least not large ones. However the list of his contributers is very interesting. Koch Industries is right at the top.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00005285&cycle=2012

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carp 1 year ago

Why is America so violent? Why are people shooting, stabbing, beating, and stealing from each other? We're so focused on the inanimate gun, knife, or club instead the reasons a person would use them on their fellow human. Time for our government to start addressing "root" causes instead of spending so much on after the fact issues.

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verity 1 year ago

It is my understanding that this was a vote on the filibuster, which is why it takes 60% to pass. Most of the amendments would have passed had it been an up or down simple majority vote. So technically it was a vote on whether the bills should even be voted on. That fact is not getting much press.

As far as the filibuster is concerned, I seem to remember that Harry Reid had a chance to change/weaken the filibuster rules at the beginning of this congressional session and he chose not to.

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Nikonman 1 year ago

Does anyone have any idea how many guns (all types) are in the USA at present, not counting those owned by police or the military services? I suspect the number is so high that gun control is futile. The only way to fix this is to confiscate all guns from everyone, shut down the gun companies,gun shows, retailers and make all guns illegal under any circumstance. Also shut down all ammunition plants except for those making ammunition specifically for the police & military services. All the other support companies (parts, etc.) would just fade away. And we also know this is not going to happen, right?

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SouthWestKs 1 year ago

Expanding the background checks would be a good thing if the people that failed the checks were arrested. But that does not happen as there is only a handful of people that failed the checks that have ended in court. So if they are not gona to enforce the law, why should we let them waste more money checking more people. The thing that needs to be fixed is the mental health records part of the background check. Oh, please see ATF&E form # 4473.

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Steve Bunch 1 year ago

Driver's license, vehicle insurance, and vehicle registration are seriously eroding my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We need to abolish these things forthwith.

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Bruce Bertsch 1 year ago

I want one person to logically and rationally explain why increased background checks is a bad thing...just one. Why should I be able to go to a gun show and without even showing an ID purchase a weapon? Why shouldn't gun show purchases be subject to a real background check? Background checks have nothing whatsoever to do with the Second amendment. I want to know why those who stand with the cowards in the Senate do so? Both of the Senators from Kansas are cowards, pure and simple. They would rather kowtow to the NRA than represent the wishes of their state. Every time a person is killed with a weapon that was purchased legally without a background check, these cowards should have to explain to the remaining family why they voted the way they did. It is a disgrace.

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TinmanKC 1 year ago

After yesterday's vote, just sent a check to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

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OonlyBonly 1 year ago

And while all the Liberals rant because our elected officials listened to us and realized the Constitution wasn't a "dead" document as the Liberal Propaganda Machine leads them to believe I close with, Wasn't it Barrack Obama (legally elected [as one poster said] President of the United States and Attorney General Eric Holder who supplied approximately 2000 firearms (assault weapons in Liberal terms) to drug cartels in Mexico? Answer - yes! And only 700~ of these weapons have been recovered? Answer - yes! And these weapons are responsible for the murder of an American Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry? Answer - yes! And these weapons are responsible for the murder of 150 Mexican nationals? Answer - yes! Now why is it so important to The Leader to take away American guns whilst providing Mexican drug cartels with weapons and hiding behind the claim of Executive Privilege?

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Ken Lassman 1 year ago

OK, I really don't want to listen to those talk shows, so commenters who are against tightening the background checks as proposed in this legislation, tell me in as clear, specific language as you can, how this legislation infringes so much on the second amendment right to bear arms that it should be voted down. My understanding is that it does NOT create a national registry, rather it specifically prohibits it.

It seems that the loopholes in the current system are so egregious that despite 2 million applications being turned down, it's still easy for folks with a history of mental illness/violence/abuse can still get a gun. I simply don't see how that serves anyone, whether they have a gun or not.

So check your sarcasm and slogans at the door and explain what is so offensive about this legislation that tightens up the requirements such that folks who have a questionable history will have a much harder time and those who have a legitimate history can still get a gun?

Because if it is just a matter of cost, that doesn't cut it with me. If we as a country are willing to spend so much on border security, Homeland Security, etc. the cost of a more comprehensive and effective background search seems like a prudent investment to ensure that our Second Amendments rights are not taken advantage of by the criminal elements in our society.

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Ami 1 year ago

LJworld, can you please post their email so we could "thank them" for protecting our kids?

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Agnostick 1 year ago

Simple. I have always voted against Roberts, and will continue to do so.

I was a Jerry Moran supporter for many years. I appreciated his approach to rural Kansas, his support of family farms and agriculture, back when he was Congressman Jerry Moran. Since entering the Senate, he has become a tool of the Tea Party, and now he has found space on Wayne La Pierre's lap. I will no longer vote for Moran, either.

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somebodynew 1 year ago

Well, if you think about it, I guess this didn't matter at all, here in Kansas. After all, our Great Legislative minds made it a Felony to enforce Federal gun laws. !!! So it wouldn't have applied here. Maybe Sam could have explained that if the President could have made his trip here (and invited Sam) ????

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Nani700 1 year ago

Liberty275, the Declaration of Independence, the precursor to the Constitution, talks about the inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, LIFE being first. The constitution is the means to ensure these rights to Americans. Criminals will continue to have access to guns, that's a fact. The ones who would have been prevented from owning guns could have been the mentally ill, the ones who have committed the atrocities on our society like Newtown, Aurora, Columbine........... I agree with Yeoman2--this another of the right wing's inability to accept Barack Obama as President. They would prefer not to work for the people they represent in order to make the President look ineffective. And, yes, I believe that much has to do with the color of his skin!

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rockchalker52 1 year ago

@chuckfinster - let it be pointed out, again, the areas with nearby proximity to Chicago, those with lax gun control, are the primary suppliers of the weapons used illegally in Chicago.

@fred_mertz - it is my understanding that Harry Reid's vote was procedural & that it has something to do with a strategy for passing this bill which he actually favors. I admit I don't understand that. I'm not even sure that is accurate, but that's what some talking head was saying yesterday. Very confusing.

@everybody else - I struggle with this concept myself, but, to paraphrase a very wise person, the moment in which an issue makes you feel anger is the moment in which you stop advocating for the truth and start advocating only for yourself. Less anger on both sides of this issue would go a long ways towards a resolution.

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wood451 1 year ago

I'm glad the bill did not pass.

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ChuckFInster 1 year ago

I would venture to guess the criminal element will disregard any and all laws for gun control anyway. Chicago having the strictest gun control laws is more deadly then Afganistan.

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Karl_Hungus 1 year ago

Wow, LJW moves fast to remove facts, sure they were not moved to their newspaper....guessing Mr. Trigger Finger is no better than half of the people posting on here...hope you and your family are safe from gun violence because turning a blind eye is NOT a defence, rather it is a way to get hurt!!!!!

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newmedia 1 year ago

Guess if old Harry had kept his Red state dems in line we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Just goes to show whatever their political stripe winning reelection trumps all else.

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Karl_Hungus 1 year ago

James Holmes, well, if a mental health assessment had been done, there is a good chance he couldn't murder all of those people but with none, it was a four gone conclusion...the same could be said for Jared Lee Loughner.

Why is it that one shoe bomber changes the whole system but endless acts of gun violence gets to go unchecked....I will tell you.....damn BLOOD MONEY, yep, our "leaders" are securing their jobs and getting mad loot at the cost of Americans

How about this guy: Seung-Hui Cho "Incident At about 7 AM, Cho entered West Ambler Johnston dormitory, shot and killed two students, then returned to his dormitory to change out of his bloody clothes. At approximately 9:40 AM, he entered Norris Hall and began shooting at students and faculty in classrooms on the second floor. The rampage—during which 30 more people were killed and 17 wounded—lasted until approximately 9:51 AM, when Cho committed suicide. Exact motives remain unclear. Cho had a long history of mental and physical illness, depression, selective mutism, and wrote "dark and troubling" papers for his classes, which included fantasies about the Columbine shooting.

Weapons GLOCK 19 9mm semiautomatic pistol and Walther P22 .22-caliber semiautomatic pistol. Investigators found a total of 17 empty magazines at the scene of the shooting, a mix of several 15-round, and 10-round magazines loaded with hollow-point rounds (bullets with the tip hollowed out, designed to expand upon impact). He possessed over 400 rounds of ammunition. Cho ordered the Walther P22 from a website operated by TGSCOM, Inc. Kazmierczak patronized the same company before the NIU shooting. On February 9, 2007, Cho picked up the pistol from J-N-D Pawn-brokers, located across the street from the VA Tech campus. In compliance with the state law limiting handgun purchases to one every 30 days, Cho purchased the GLOCK 19 on March 13, 2007. He also purchased five 10-round magazines from eBay in March. Cho's purchase of these firearms was in violation of federal law; he was disqualified from purchasing or possessing a firearm and ammunition, because a special justice of the Montgomery County General District Court had found him to be a danger to himself on December 14, 2005."

http://www.nycrimecommission.org/initiative1-shootings.php For those who care....the rest of you, yeah, you have blood on your hands, hope your kids are safe from the lack of gun responsibility that you so desire....

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Brock Masters 1 year ago

Thank you Harry Reid for voting against this bill.

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Biscayne 1 year ago

I Thanked them also, they have my vote.

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mags_and_k 1 year ago

Your Second Amendment right comes right after my children's and their children's right to live, MY right to live. Families have the right to have a reasonable expectation that they can go to a safe place to receive an education. You people keep yapping on about your Second Amendment right and never stop to think when our Fore Fathers wrote our Amendments, it was based on a "firearm" that took 5 minutes to stuff full of gunpowder and one chance to get a shot off and the target better have been right in front of you!!! It is a bunch of BS to say you have the right to own firearms, automatic, semi-automatic, stuffed with a magazine and four more in your pockets, that can take out 26 people, the majority 6 and 7 years old in less than 5 minutes. If you want to keep a loaded pistol under your damn pillow, be my guest! I just hope you don't shoot your kid, your kid shoots another kid, or you fire off and kill the drunken neighbor kid with it!

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toe 1 year ago

Their reelection is assured.

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koman 1 year ago

Funny thing, all of you saying you wrote or called these idiots or their offices are wasting your time. Even if you vote for them, they do not care about you. At all. Period and end of discussion. They care about getting money to run ads that make simpletons get out and vote for them. I have to hand it to the repubaggers, they have a great history of using social issues to scare folks with diminished brain function to vote against their own economic best interests.

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cowboy 1 year ago

Quite ironic that the lady who shamed the senate yesterday and was removed from the gallery was the lady who stopped the lunatic who shot Gabby Giffords in Tucson by preventing him from reloading another large magazine and killing more people.

The hero patriot was removed from the senate while the rats stayed put.

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cowboy 1 year ago

As part of the sequester we should cut the pay of senators and congressmen / women to a poverty level range where they can qualify for food stamps , medicaid and would not be so prone to sell out the citizenry to hold onto a plum job and an income built from graft during public service. Make them part time employees and force them to have a real job in the off season.

We regulate knives and everyone has all the knives they can use or would need , why not guns?

Some of the items these senators rejected were having additives in gun powder so it can be traced to point of origin , bulk buys of guns that can then be sold off record into urban gangs , large magazines , and background checks for all gun purchases. None of these elements challenge and second amendment right. Any one who thinks they do should seriously seek professional help as you are a bonafide paranoid.

I wrote our useless senators also , my words were not kind nor supportive.

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 year ago

And yet again we are presented with the vile, bubbling, seething hatred that our elected tea-bag terrorist republican representatives harbour against the lawfully--elected Democratic President of the United States.

A very necessary set of regulations (remember the Second Amendment says "well-regulated) are voted down to further add to the disrespect of our citizens and victims of the many harriffic tragedies of gun violence.

And a republican giverner who openly crafts "legislation" that opposes Federal law.

Our representatives are noting short of criminal in their intent to oppose everything that the president offers, byt yet the "citizens" of Kansas stand for this.

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Liberty275 1 year ago

I told you people this junk legislation was going nowhere. Hands off the constitution.

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justanotherface 1 year ago

Praise Pat Roberts and Jerry Moran! News like this makes me happy to be a Jayhawk from Kansas!

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Machiavelli_mania 1 year ago

Good for them. I must have called about three times on this issue.

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Nani700 1 year ago

Look for BIG campaign contributions from the NRA & the tea partiers for Roberts & Moran. and the 52 other senators who voted against this bill. They can feather their nests on the graves of innocents.

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DrQuack 1 year ago

I like you, Synchophant. You put into words exactly what is happening. How unfortunate for the residents of this state. But.....who in the heck keeps re-electing these guys?

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Bob Forer 1 year ago

Of course they did. Both of them receive big campaign contributions from the NRA. Its all about raising money to get re-elected. Democracy has nothing to do with it.

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Ichegoya 1 year ago

To these senators, and to Wayne LaPierre, and to all the senators who voted against this:

.I hope the last thing you see when you go to sleep is the terrified faces of 1st graders. I hope you wake up in a cold sweat, dreaming about paramedics vomiting as 20 dead children roll past on stretchers. I hope you feel the burning hate of parents who will never kiss their babies again. When you are remembered, you will be known as the weakest, the spineless, and the heartless. When you are old, and your life is an act of rememberance and you will look into your childrens and grandchildrens faces, you will see every bullethole you helped facilitate. Every bloodstained dollar you keep should be a reminder of what you have done. I hope you feel sick.

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orbiter 1 year ago

Thank GOD people can buy guns on the internet and at gun shows without having a background check performed on them! Wait a minute, what?

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Alexander Smith 1 year ago

Idiots is not the word. What are the freaks trying to hide? Infringing on the 2nd Amendment rights?? WTF! A background check DOES NOT in any way infringe the 2nd Amendment rights. If someone is a criminal or has mental issues that makes them a possible danger if they are allowed to have guns is a right that is outside the 2nd Amendment and overrides it.

Background checks MUST be done on private sales. A gun is not some trinket you pick up at a flea market, its a deadly weapon. A person who sells a gun to a person, and that person then turns around and uses the gun to kill someone in a robbery MUST be held accountable. It’s a failure of that gun seller to uphold his American spirit of helping to protect fellow Americans.

Heck, if a person sells some beer to another person with out checking a ID, that person then goes out and kills someone by driving drunk, THEN finding out that the person was a minor. The person selling the beer will be charged and most likely go to jail.

WHY NOT ON GUNS! Roberts and his idiotic moron anti-gun law are NOT American in anyway. They are out to HIDE illegal gun sails, they don’t care about the children that were killed in Newtown, all they care about is their TOYS. I bet you anything that Robert and his buddies have illegal guns sitting in their homes and they don’t want the laws because they know they will lose their toys.

ROBERTS and friends.. you are the ANTI-AMERICAN spirit. Screw you all and your safety, I got my guns.

OH one last thing, Gun Laws DO NOT violate the 2nd Amendment UNLESS. 1.) All guns are banned 2.) Laws make it economically or process very difficult to get one/high probability that the check will fail. OH another thing, the Government DOES have the right to regulate what firearms are deemed safe in the hands of the public… if they didn’t everyone would have a M16, SAW, or 50 cal in their front yard. Yes these are military weapons…. BUT they are firearms.

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jhawkinsf 1 year ago

Didn't vote for either of them in the past and will continue not voting for them.

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elliottaw 1 year ago

more reason to vote the bums out, 90% of the US wanted these yet these fools choose to take the money from the NRA instead of doing their job

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Jean1183 1 year ago

Just sent them both a "Thank You" email.

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