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Do you think the Legislature should override Gov. Sebelius’ coal plant veto?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on May 1, 2008

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Photo of Sara Bainter

“I don’t think they should, based on the information I’ve heard about the environmental concerns.”

Photo of Daniel Ramirez

“I don’t think she should have vetoed it in the first place. It would bring a lot of jobs to Kansas. It’s going to happen here or someplace else, so they might as well keep the money in Kansas.”

Photo of Joleen Morris

“Yes. I think it’s what she wants. It’s not what’s good for Kansas.”

Photo of Brad Greenwood

“No. We need to establish a precedent for protecting our air and environmental resources for future generations.”

Comments

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

Looking back at some older articles, I can't really see the point of this project, other than a single company's profit line. At least from the perspective of Kansas citizens. Can anyone fill me in?

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

Mariann: Booted, and Resurrected Back To Hideous Life!! Heh HehHeh Mwahahahahaha!!!Blue: Jobs? Well, it makes it tricky, then, for sure, and in our depressed economic condition it makes a veto much more likely. It would be nice indeed if we were to be offered an alternative, not just by the governor but by the governing body in general. I can't really say that I like the idea of shouldering the environmental burden of other states energy needs just so a minority of our population can get new jobs, and I really personally feel that coal power technology is going to be phased out, at least within our lifetime. On the other hand, Western Kansas could use the economic stimulus.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 7 months ago

"jonas (Anonymous) says: Looking back at some older articles, I can't really see the point of this project, other than a single company's profit line."Sunflower Power is owned by the people of Western Kansas. You cannot buy stock in sunflower, you are an owner if you have an electric meter. Sunflower has been close to broke for many years. The owners of sunflower wish to be leaders in clean coal devlopment and hold the line on energy cost. Right now we pay 50% more for electricity than Lawrence and do not want it to go higher. We need more power, and need Colorado/Texas to pay for the generation so we can get what we need at cost. If we don't get this we will have to buy at market which will increase rates and kill economic devlopment. Any corporate profits go back to the owners.

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

But then again, me and my wife are fortunate enough to have jobs, and I likely won't still be in Kansas by the time the plants get built, so I'm not sure my opinion should count too much.Not that, well, it probably does here. Haha

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 7 months ago

I don't know what the governor would suggest as an alternative...but I say give the people what they want...in Nevada, in the 1940s people were given exactly what they wanted...a chunk of useless, god-forsaken desert was turned into an oasis for the fulfillment of want...and... the backbone of the Nevada economy was created...free, open gambling is what Kansas needs to stimulate the economy...lots of jobs... and a tremendous expansion of the tax base...then add legalized prostitution... and bang... we can all forget about these silly power plants...write your legislators today and insist on State-wide stimulation:

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

georgeofwesternkansas: Now that Is interesting. Thanks, that definitely should be a factor for consideration. it's-getting-warmer: "I urge Jonas to continue "his reading.""Well, that's fine then. I suppose I could bring up, though, that my limited reading this morning certainly noticed you getting trounced by a number of other posters repeatedly, so I'm not so certain how seriously I should take your urgings, much less your rather unwarranted attack.

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

O-Bob: I graduate next May, and the likelihood of me finding a job in this region where my somewhat unique set of skills and training would really add value to a company is limited, to say the least. I'll probably stick around here, though. This is my favorite playground.

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 7 months ago

well, Bob...just about any kind of economic stimulus is going to require some water...I believe that is one of the long-term concerns with these power plants... they use too much water:and: Las Vegas has way too many fountains and golf courses...we'll not bother with those things in Kansas...if people want fountains they can go into KC... and... people can golf just about anywhere in the country...

tolawdjk 6 years, 7 months ago

"Sunflower Power is owned by the people of Western Kansas. You cannot buy stock in sunflower, you are an owner if you have an electric meter. Sunflower has been close to broke for many years. The owners of sunflower wish to be leaders in clean coal devlopment and hold the line on energy cost. Right now we pay 50% more for electricity than Lawrence and do not want it to go higher. We need more power, and need Colorado/Texas to pay for the generation so we can get what we need at cost. If we don't get this we will have to buy at market which will increase rates and kill economic devlopment. Any corporate profits go back to the owners."Translation:We want rate payers in a different state to subsidize our development. Generally we like the free market because the free market is what creates jobs, except in the case when we have to pay for stuff off of the free market because the price has been driven so high. If we can get this subsidy, we can get more jobs and produce a commodity that we can sell on the free market for prices that we didn't want to pay in the first place. In addition, this will allow us to attract more industry to the area, never minding the fact that we haven't been able to attract more jobs to the area for the last 50 years in the first place. This is a "magic" commodity that will repair all ills.

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 7 months ago

Bob,that's what it's all about...the future...

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

O-Bob: I hear pleather accessories are a developing market in the Chinese economy. The potential growth rate is amazing, we could make a killing!

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

The participants in the Long March would have been much more stylish with appropriate pleather accessories.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 7 months ago

Hey tolawdjk, I have five seconds tell me everything you know about power purchase contracts. Our maybe everything you know about energy generation and transportation. Or maybe anything about Western Kansas. Everyone in the world is not like you. Everyone is not out to steal their neighbors money.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 7 months ago

Since Sara is listed as an artist, I was curious to see if she had any work on the internet. I googled her name, and I learned that she seems to be a somewhat regular OTS respondent.http://www2.ljworld.com/onthestreet/2006/oct/15/what_reading/

davidnta 6 years, 7 months ago

No, the legislature should not override the veto. People need to understand that there is no such thing as clean coal. The way that the coal companies are framing it gives it that appearance, and stupid people buy into it.

Aisling 6 years, 7 months ago

Multi~I love to see another John Prine fan and all but now that song is stuck in my head :)

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

IGW says,"people jump on me because I have defended the good people of western Kansas"No, they disagree with your arguments because they lack facts and are baseless, then they disagree with you because, in the absence of a valid argument, you (and George) turn to an "us vs. them" position, ignoring the facts because they don't fit your position. So, they call you on it, as well they should. It seems that you and your fine legislature will do or say practically anything to get this done, despite the facts that say that it shouldn't be done. When this kind of desperation rears it's head, it's only natural for intelligent, observant people to take note and get the feeling that something just ain't right about it. What little benefit anyone could possibly see out of this effort to build the plant expansion is overwhelmingly trumped by the negative impacts of doing it. It's exactly at that point that we are to throw caution to the wind? That's bizarre. Now that the issue is becoming, in effect, a tax on everyone in the state, it takes the only leg remaining completely away from the "it's our business, so butt out" position.

Aisling 6 years, 7 months ago

autie~I'm sorry I missed your organ donor post, I would have enjoyed that. You are probably correct in that it is reflective of our age group. Ol' John isn't embraced by the mainstream music (which is their loss) and I'm always quite proud (as if I have anything to do with it) when I see a fellow fan out there.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 7 months ago

IGW, flock is just another perfect example of an activist in search of a cause. He (and others) are all over these boards and in favor of nothing, all corporations, all forms of government are evil, they all need to heed his all knowing powers.

blindrabbit 6 years, 7 months ago

Just drove through Western Kansas, lots of new center pivot irrigation installations going in in anticipation of increasing grain production. Coal burning power plants use LOTS of water especially in their steam condensers; that is why most are built along lakes, oceans or rivers! With the Ogallah underground aquifer already stressed out, and no surface water sources, the addition of these power plants may well kill-off any anticipated agricultural gain! The right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Not even to mention other environmental issues!This may be the next school board/anti-evolution story that Kansans have to defend, along with Fred Phelps, and the Wizard of Oz. This one will end up costing the State lots of money!

Jock Navels 6 years, 7 months ago

everybody gets caught up in their own little rant and gets off the issue. coal fired plants are denied by the governor because of real environmental concerns that in the long run may determine whether we as a species live or die. so the issue, based on current information is, do we make some small sacrifices now to protect and preserve our progeny, or do we party til there's no more beer...don't worry donny, they're just nihilists.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

IGW says,blah, blah, blah (and more nonsense)"Hypocrisy, Flock. Capital H. Bold type."That's what you keep saying, but it just isn't true. Now you're really reaching and grabbing. If you knew all of the facts, you couldn't possibly say that."But what is it about this issue that you don't understand?"Nothing. It's perfectly clear to me.'Are they ALL being persuaded by "baseless facts"'I think even you know what they are being persuaded by. Facts isn't one of them."Don't these people have a grip on the people whom they represent."A grip on the people? Yeah, they have them practically bound and gagged, for now."If Lawrence was serious about environmental concerns, there are numerous ways it could be leading the charge in conservation, energy sensitive building standards, energy savings monitoring programs, wind-energy demonstration projects, alternative energy demonstration sources, and reduction of CO2. They simply haven't."That is flat out false. Have you ever been to Lawrence or have you just read about it?"And they have enjoyed the cheapest power in the State at the same time."Obviously, there are economics of scale. BTW, have you ever heard of RUS? Where do you think that money comes from?"So now, when it is suggested a twenty four cent a year fee be enacted, Flock has a problem with money?"Nope, it just means that the issue just got a lot more personal when you try to reach into my pocket. Are you advocating taxation without representation?"If you haven't lived in the neighborhoods of Quinter, and Holcomb, and Tribune, and Ulysses, and understand the changing economic environment, you simply have no standing to talk."Wow! That's a pretty ridiculous qualifier there. If it affects my environment, my water supply, my money, you bet I have full standing to talk. For you to say otherwise is way off the mark."and many of those things have been financed by the taxes collected in other parts of the state which have contributed to the fine city."Oh, back to the tax base argument, which has been disproved time and time again. If you envy Lawrencians for having a fine city (according to you, on your dime...whatever), well, move up here.

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

It's getting warmer: I'm not sure I can see how you can interpret anything that I said as a casual dismissal of anything. Within my posts I not only admitted I knew little about the issue, I also asked for input to increase my understanding, and the strongest language I used at any point was "I can't really say that I like the idea," followed immediately by a statement that Western Kansas could use the economic stimulus. You then put about 5 thoughts in my mouth totally unrelated to anything that I said, in a less than polite manner which was, as I said, totally unwarranted. Perhaps the problem that you keep running into is that you seem incapable of interpreting nuance in an opinion, and view anything other than agreement as a casual dismissal. That's just from the perspective of this thread.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 7 months ago

I think the legislature should override this OTS question.

dirkleisure 6 years, 7 months ago

"and many of those things have been financed by the taxes collected in other parts of the state which have contributed to the fine city."Look at the sales tax, income tax, and property tax figures.Douglas County pays for kids in western Kansas to have schools, for seniors to have meals, and for farmers to have roads.

jonas 6 years, 7 months ago

it's getting warmer: Well, can't ask for more than that. Mei guanxi. (No problems)

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

IGW says,"I'll be glad to go through the numbers with you."Go for it. We've already been through it on previous threads and you were wrong. Last time I checked, KU didn't prohibit residents of western KS from attending. It's for everyone and just happens to be located in Lawrence. Since you brought up the school finance structuring, it was your fine legislature that worked out a plan (once they were forced by the courts to) to put an equitable school finance plan in place. Go to ksde.org and find out for yourself. The plan has a major emphasis on local funding (LOB). In comparing rural versus urban public school funding, tell me why Texas has the chapter 41 provision. Why? Because the tax base is not adequate in rural areas to sufficiently fund the public schools. Suburban areas end up donating a portion of their tax revenue to rural districts so that they can be funded adequately. Speaking of state taxes, the Governor's website has budget numbers for recent years that cover the breakdown by county, including budget versus actual for previous years. A good look at it will put your argument to rest. Read up on it, IGW.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

they are holding the voting open while the arm twisting ensues. they must not have the votes.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

actually, the voting is closed, but they are allowing members to change their vote. they closed the chamber doors.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

Rep. Burroughs just said on the floor that a reps family member was threatened to be kicked off a job site if the rep didn't change their vote.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 7 months ago

Ah, Unbeatable Banzuke. What a great show. It's on before Battlestar Galactica each Friday night, so I get a weekly dose of awesome Japanese TV. Actually, Ninja Warrior is on right before UB, so I get a double dose of awesome Japanese TV.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

http://www.greenpolicy.us/Lawrence,_KS_Environmental_Procurement_Policyhttp://www.lawrencerecycles.org/businesshazardous.shtmlhttp://www.lawrencerecycles.org/energyconservation.shtmlThat, in itself, is more than "simply haven't".BTW, you still have a few questions for you on the table. I know a bit about state budgets and school finance, probably more than you. You still haven't given us an iota of support for that argument. Bring it.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 7 months ago

The only jobs Kansans would get from this project are menial labor jobs swabbing toilets and such. Probably these would be taken by illegal immigrants.The high-skill, high-pay jobs at a plant would be imported from elsewhere. How many western Kansans are trained to run and manage a coal-fire plant?The "jobs" argument is an illusion.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

house floor is still under lock and key. arm twisting.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 7 months ago

80 to 45. veto sustained. now to the courts.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

There's gonna be a federally funded project to take unstable architects and retrain them to be dung heavers. Money well spent, I'd say.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 7 months ago

and, now, electricity prices will be much higher in all of kansas for 20 years! hurray! ... ooooops.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 7 months ago

and, I see cool has been at the chocolate covered coffee beans again. all the yelling doesn't change the facts: cleaner per KWH than any plant in ks now by far. will help keep electricity prices lower. some greeniewheenies now opposing wind farms as killing birds, eyesores, sound nuisance. when you see huge numbers of cool's posts all together, you know he is trying very hard to justify himself, simply by yelling the loudest.

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