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Do you think Kansas University should allow students with permits to carry concealed weapons on campus?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on April 22, 2008

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Photo of Elizabeth Renick

“I would say no. I don’t really see the point of the concealed carry law in the first place, especially on a college campus.”

Photo of Alex Dworkin

“I’m definitely a proponent of allowing people to carry them in general, but I don’t think there is a real need to have them on campus.”

Photo of Erin Conley

“Absolutely not. I think violence breeds more violence. I’m also concerned about untrained gun owners and that someone trying to act heroically would injure more people than they save.”

Photo of Jesus Castillo

“I think they probably should, but I don’t know how strict the permit process is. The more strict it is, the more I would be in favor of it.”

Comments

danatodd 6 years, 8 months ago

preachesnscream ...... you really need to stay on topic.I feel anyone with a concealed carry permit should be allowed to carry anywhere. Except courtrooms and federal buildings, that'd never happen.Since you went there, I feel that properly trained teachers and other faculty with proper permits should also be allowed to carry in High Schools.

Dixie Jones 6 years, 8 months ago

you have got to be kidding me ...what next high school middle school... gezz

H_Lecter 6 years, 8 months ago

When killing a large group of people, guns are one of the least creative ways to do it.

jonas 6 years, 8 months ago

And all the OTS regulars cringe in fear. There's a storm comin! For myself, I'm not comfortable with the idea in the slightest, but I can't think of a particularly logical non-emotional reason to not allow them.

bondmen 6 years, 8 months ago

Shouldn't the real question be "should a student be able to defend herself on campus from an attacker intent on doing her harm?" Additionally "and if that attacker is capable of doing harm from a distance, shouldn't that student be able to respond commensurately in self defense?"

Frederic Gutknecht IV 6 years, 8 months ago

Concealed carry should be mandatory. Ewwwwww!Gun handling classes should be mandatory. Ewwwwwww!Defensive tactics and prevalent tactical philosophies should be taught. Ewwwwwww!And there should be no sex on campus. EwwwwwwWHAT!!!Just kidding...

sgtwolverine 6 years, 8 months ago

Uh oh. Cover your heads; today's forecast calls for a downpour of statistics with scattered links.

eddiez 6 years, 8 months ago

I'm against concealed carry on college campuses, because mass murder makes news EXCITING! (VT was "gun-free.")

armyguy 6 years, 8 months ago

Everyone I work with is packing at least one weapon. I have no problems in my office or when we have classes, and the instructor has a gun also. If everyone had one it would not be a problem.

armyguy 6 years, 8 months ago

Wow, I did not realize that people that carry guns that work in Baghdad, were wimps and should try the Marines, however since I work beside Navy, Air Force and Marines that all carry guns, I suppose they would be considered wimps also?Sounds like a very narrow minded person who assumes that all posters on this board are sitting around Lawrence typing on their keyboards. The net reaches very far.

Take_a_letter_Maria 6 years, 8 months ago

Armyguy, if you are in fact in Baghdad, or vicinity, stay safe.Prayers to you and all you are serving with.

M. Lindeman 6 years, 8 months ago

Cool: Say'sAsk the police in NYC how and when the murder rates went down. New York has had concealed carry for a long time, but the rates went down when the Brady Bill was passed and enforced. Why did crime go down, especially gun crime? Because you had a waiting period that meant that folks from Virginia and Florida couldn't buy multiple weapons on the spot and then import them into the city. Bottom line:fewer guns, fewer gun crimes. :Cool I wouldn't use NYC for an example. Heres why, yes they have had CC for years but almost never given to a common citizen. You needed to be a person of importance or some one in the security business. Just to bring a weapon into NYC you have to apply for permit. Thats just to have it in your home. You are almost guaranteed to be turned downed at least once and that is just for a long gun. A hand gun, well you better know somebody or that won't happen. I really have a hard time understanding the thought process of some here. Many spend more time complaining about a law abiding citizen owning and carrying a hand gun than they do a criminal. Who I might add could care less about the law or what anyone thinks. I know that a criminal is far less likely to attempt a crime in a place that allows concealed carry. That is just common sense pure and simple.

Mark Bowers 6 years, 8 months ago

It's too bad people don't actually talk about this issue, but throw out ready made insults to bloggers that they feel are in the wrong. That goes for both sides.

Poon 6 years, 8 months ago

Well said Sgt and Multi...just have to wait for the rest of the good citizens of Larryville to wake up and post. I have got my tinfoil hat handy...

WHY 6 years, 8 months ago

If the courts and police department don't want guns in their lobby why would I want guns in mine.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 6 years, 8 months ago

WHY,I don't think anybody was talking about your lobby. You can lobby for your own gun-free lobby. No problem! Good luck enforcing that!~) You might want to have the number of armed guards that are present in the courts and police department! Those are well protected places where criminals abound. Is that venue is a bit different than the world we generally live in?

fu7il3 6 years, 8 months ago

"Can anyone provide an example of a CC'er stopping a crime or perp in the commission of a crime?"Why should they stop a crime? That's not their job. Unless someone is about to die, I'm not pulling my gun out. Do you think I care if they get 80 bucks from QuickTrip?

jonas 6 years, 8 months ago

duplenty (Anonymous) says: "Can anyone provide an example of a CC'er stopping a crime or perp in the commission of a crime?"Oh dear. Here it comes.

JSpizias 6 years, 8 months ago

Anonymous userduplenty (Anonymous) says:"Can anyone provide an example of a CC'er stopping a crime or perp in the commission of a crime?"See below for an example in Topeka. http://www.ktka.com/news/2007/jan/22/concealed_carry_permit_holder_shoots_suspect/Gary Kleck, a leading criminologist, has estimated that there are over a million defensive gun uses each year.from Wikipedia:Gary Kleck (born March 2, 1951) is a criminologist at Florida State University who is an expert on the links between guns, violence and gun control laws in the United States.Dr. Gary Kleck, FSU Criminologist, with FDLE firearms displayHe has done statistical analysis of crime in the United States and argues that while in 1993 there were about four hundred thousand crimes committed with guns, there were approximately 2.5 million crimes in which victims used guns for self-protection.David McDowall cites methodological issues with the Kleck studies, claiming that they used a very small sample size and did not confine self-defense to attempted victimizations where physical attacks had already commenced. The former criticism, however, was inaccurate - Kleck's survey with Marc Gertz in fact used the largest sample size of any survey that ever asked respondents about defensive gun use - 4,977 cases, far more than is typical in national surveys.[1] McDowall's latter criticism was also invalid as it would, by definition, rule out the most effective uses of guns for self-protection, in which merely wielding a gun deterred the offender from even attempting an attack.[2] A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, claimed that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.[3] In 1993, Kleck won the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology for his book Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America.References 1. ^ Kleck and Gertz 1995,"Armed resistance to crime." Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86(1):150-187, p. 162 2. ^ Kleck and Kates 2001, pp. 235-239 3. ^ Hemenway, D., D. Azrael, M. Miller (2000). "Gun use in the United States: results from two national surveys". Injury Prevention 6 (4): pp. 263-267. PMID 11144624.

MandM 6 years, 8 months ago

This is an editorial on gun free zones. It cites several examples of people with concealed carry permits who stopped crimes. In particular the shooting at the church in Colorado that occured about 6 months ago. But keep in mind. A person with a CC license is not obligated to "stop a crime". They have the license to defend their life or the lives of others. Not to be a police officer. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352006,00.html

sunflower_sue 6 years, 8 months ago

Yes, CC should be allowed on campus. Honestly, I wasn't aware that it wasn't. And what is Erin Conley up there saying? That if you carry a gun, you are a violent person? I don't get that mentality. That's like saying carrying a hammer makes you a carpenter. Carrying a calculater makes you smart. Women who wear spandex must be health nuts. Men who wear pink must intermittently burst out into show tunes. Carrying a riding crop must mean that you are into horses. (This could be fun.)

mom_of_three 6 years, 8 months ago

Shatt,Then maybe you need to tell KU about your information. They have "No guns" signs posted at stop signs as you hit campus. And the buildings on campus are posted. If they don't want you to carry guns on campus, why can't you abide by their request?

mom_of_three 6 years, 8 months ago

Then what about this comment from the April 18 article. "The state law that allows qualified Kansans to carry a concealed handgun also has produced problems for universities. The schools are exempt from the law, meaning they prohibit concealed carry on the campuses, but there is a wide range of how that prohibition is carried out.""because I don't have to." Sounds like what my teenagers say to one another. and comparing cell phone to makeup to a gun is .....doesn't make sense.

sunflower_sue 6 years, 8 months ago

TOB, has anyone ever asked you: "Are those numchucks in your pantleg, or...?"I carry deathstars. Kinda like Janet Jackson does. :D

sunflower_sue 6 years, 8 months ago

mom o' 3, I'll wager that more people are injured from cell phones than from CC guns.

mom_of_three 6 years, 8 months ago

Have fun with the debate, people. Can't wait to see who wins - the campuses who think they have the right to ban guns or Shatt, who says they can't. Both think they have the law on their side. Have a good day.

sunflower_sue 6 years, 8 months ago

mom o,... Still having fun with the debate...I've almost put my own eye out with mascara! It should be banned! And doesn't lipstick contain lead? I'm going to put those things in my arsenol along with my deathstars. Don't worry, I will defend you! I need a cape...

imastinker 6 years, 8 months ago

The problem with banning concealed carry is that it's not enforceable. I bet anyone could walk into just about any campus building with nearly any weapon they desired and not get caught. If we could sneak kegs into the dorms with the front desk there, it would be very easy to sneak a handgun into a building without any security or even a front desk. So the question becomes "what do we gain from making it a CC free zone?"I say nothing. I wouldn't carry a gun around with me even if I had a CC permit. I've considered getting one just so that it looks like there are more people carrying in the state of Kansas (crime deterrent), but that was before I found the cost.

beatrice 6 years, 8 months ago

People should be allowed to carry a firearm on campus --- but no ammo! I like to defend myself with hand grenades. I hope you don't mind. Let's not forget the obvious addition to the argument -- What Gun Would Jesus Carry?

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 8 months ago

every time this comes up here in the LJW comments someone asks for an example of someone protecting themselves with a gun and we get that same story about the guy in Topeka...if Kleck's theory of 2.5 million cases is anywhere near accurate one would think it would be easy to come up with a lot of real world examples... rather than touting some study with estimations...I don't believe it happens very often...I don't care if people carry guns: if they feel unsafe without one: then maybe they should: but the whole idea that someone with a ccl on a campus is going to take out an active shooter: well: the chances are so very slim: and it seems to me to be a bit of a fantasy for some folks:

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

Anyone against concealed carry on campus is simply ignorant to the facts. They have never reviewed statistics and are not thinking about it logically. I can almost guarantee that none of the opponents have ever been a victim of a shooting. I have. I was sitting in church when a gunman came in and murdered a man in front of his family and attempted to murder others. Because of that experience, I will for the rest of my life be a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. A right that was given to us in the 2nd ammendment. Without it, we are all sitting ducks.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 6 years, 8 months ago

beatrice says:People should be allowed to carry a firearm on campus but no ammo!---Exactly. Let the gun carry the ammo. It does little good in your pocket or bag.beatrice says:I like to defend myself with hand grenades. I hope you don't mind.---Aha. I knew you were a pin head!~) That's what we call grenade heavers outside of the war zone. It's short for pin pulling dope heads. Do know that I'm a leg (pulling dope) head!~0 beatrice says:Let's not forget the obvious addition to the argument - What Gun Would Jesus Carry?---Let's also not forget to take our drugs...even though it's obvious that Bea's are better. What drugs would Jesus take, Bea?~)

smitch 6 years, 8 months ago

I am very much in favor of CCH on KU campus and all others. Licenced persons should have the option and right to protect themselves. It would be different if KU and like schools would put an armed guard in every classroom,dorm,parkinglot,on every corner,in every hall,basiclly anywhere you may go,and add metal detecters such as a courthouse or fedral building but we all know thats not happening any time soon. So in other words if they are not going to protect us we should be able carry concealed to protect ourself. duplenty, If you know how to use google search then you can find many many examples of CCW permit holders detering or stopping crime/protecting themself or others. I would also challenge any else reading this to find an example of a CCW holder in a wrongful shooting or random act of violence or anything else that may have hurt and not helped someone.Good Luck to my knowledge it's never happened.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 8 months ago

Sue, I should add one more, from one camera person to another:That's like saying carrying a camera makes you a photographer.http://web.mac.com/aaronandpatty/What_the_Duck/Comic_Strips/Entries/2008/3/31_WTD_444.html

bwebcorp 6 years, 8 months ago

Has any of the gun toting paranoids thought about for a second that let's say your in class and crazy nut job comes in the room blasting. Gun toting good guy (aka wanna be hero) starts blasting back at bad guy, and you know has so much experience with combat because he/she plays Xbox. Ends up killing more people than the bad guy. Guns do NOT equal school saftey. Ever hear of the wild west, that why these laws were put in place to begin with. I've been a gun owner and hunter all my 30 plus years of life and don't want some idiot weekend Xbox or playstation, let's be fair, warrior thinking he/she is my hero.

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

bwebcorp,You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. When was the last time someone was murdered in your presence? When was the last time you had bullets flying past you? I'm assuming never, considering your "paranoid" comment. The fact is, it happens. Would you rather the murderer have "open season" on your class without a fight? Don't worry, we wouldn't want you carrying on campus. You'd probably hand over your gun and crawl under a desk anyway.

MandM 6 years, 8 months ago

dueplenty and stuckinthe middle. You asked for real life examples and I gave them to you. Besides the one already cited from Topeka. I'll post again....... This is an editorial on gun free zones. It cites several examples of people with concealed carry permits who stopped crimes. In particular the shooting at the church in Colorado that occured about 6 months ago. But keep in mind. A person with a CC license is not obligated to "stop a crime". They have the license to defend their life or the lives of others. Not to be a police officer. The link below cites several cases. Read on.....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3520:

gogoplata 6 years, 8 months ago

Even with the biased scenerio given above by bwecorp, It would be hard to argue that his chances of surviving just went up simply by the wanna be hero throwing a monkey wrench into the plans of the crazy nut job. You have to take into account that it takes a time and money commitment to get your concealed carry license. You have to demonstrate your ability to shoot straight. It is a lot more than practicing on your home video games.

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

MandM,It looks like your link isn't going to the desired location. Try again, friend!

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 8 months ago

MandMsorry... page cannot be foundbut... in particular... the shooting at the church in Colorado involved a professional security guard who was carrying as part of her job...

imastinker 6 years, 8 months ago

Wasn't there a mall shooter that was killed by a CC permit holder a year or two ago?The real point is that the knowledge that guns MAY be in a location someone is wanting to commit a crime is a deterrent (or should be) to the person wanting to commit said crime.

MandM 6 years, 8 months ago

I think I have the right link now http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352006,00.htmlAnd in the Colorado church case the woman was a CC permit holder who had permission of the church to carry so she could "serve as a guard" for the church.

huntress67 6 years, 8 months ago

Can I just ask how many of you have taken the CC class and understand all that it entails? The instructors of the class do not have to give you the ok to go on with registering and background checks. If they feel for mental or physical reasons you should not carry they will let you know of their concerns. That is how my instructors were anyway. That doesn't stop someone from carrying illegally...but...

Devon Kissinger 6 years, 8 months ago

Anonymous userjtrav77 (Anonymous) says:I will for the rest of my life be a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. A right that was given to us in the 2nd ammendment. Without it, we are all sitting ducks.-The right is not granted to us by the 2nd amendment, it is affirmed. No government can "give" rights.

dminear60 6 years, 8 months ago

jtrav77: Do you have any statistics to back up your statements and your logic? I think a more accurate statement would be that most proponents of CC have never been the victim of a shooting or needed a gun to defend themselves. You were involved in an unfortunate tragic event. Allowing students to carry concealed weapons is not the solution. How does arming more people with concealed guns make us safer? I do not feel safer knowing my coworker is packing heat! That is nuts! Are there statistics available that show whether easy access to guns increase the risk of being the victim of a gun related incident? Do you have statistics that show the incidence of gun related violence where guns are much harder to obtain?

JSpizias 6 years, 8 months ago

Apparently some think that defense of self or others with a firearm is rare and complain about the use of a local incident in Topeka as an example. Here are some other sources:http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/labels/OH.htmlhttp://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Ohio-CHL-holders-acting-in-self-defenseThe data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics about justifiable homicide by private civilians and law enforcement also supports the thesis that handguns in the hands of civilians are useful for defense purposes.Bureau of Justice Statistics-Justifiable homicides by private civiliansyear total all firearms handgun1997 280 238 1971998 196 170 1501999 192 158 1372000 164 138 1232001 215 176 136Justifiable Homicides-Law enforcement1997 366 363 3151998 369 367 3221999 308 305 2742000 309 308 2742001 370 368 311

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

dminear60,The statistics you're asking for have already been linked throughout this board. I suggest you click on them and read what they have to say. And you would say that "most proponents...etc.", but you would be assuming, just like I clearly said I was. Regarding "knowing" that your coworkers are "packing heat", you wouldn't know. That's what the word "Concealed" is referring to. As I eluded to before, do some research, then try to make an argument. If you do your homework, you'll find that "Gun-Free Zones" make no sense. I'm confident you won't do the research though and you'll continue to make uninformed arguments.

TopJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

I do know personally of a good example. It happened, of course in Topeka less than a yr ago. A friend of mine that I went to high school with was working the counter at one of his convenience stores. A cousin of his, someone I used to work with and a retired Marine who has a CC permit out of Oklahoma was standing behind the counter with him. Someone came in at that point holding a .45. to rob the store. The old Marine pulled a .32 and shot the robber just under the left eye. The idiot lived and is currently in jail... True story...

TopJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

Oh, didn't mean to be redundent. I scrolled down and wrote without reading all the posts. I really do know of this incident personally. Perfect example of what you asked for.

dminear60 6 years, 8 months ago

jtrav77: I would appeal to you to do a little research yourself. Try this link.http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm#childrenEvery day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control) You cannot convince me that concealed carry makes anyone safer. And, I cannot convince you of the converse. The statistics I have read tell me we do not need more guns.

RonBurgandy 6 years, 8 months ago

You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair they made the Jews wear.

JSpizias 6 years, 8 months ago

dminear60 says:"Are there statistics available that show whether easy access to guns increase the risk of being the victim of a gun related incident? Do you have statistics that show the incidence of gun related violence where guns are much harder to obtain?"Having a functional gun is illegal in DC-they must be disassembled or locked away. The question of whether such a law is an unconstitutional infringement of the Second Amendment was just argued in the Supreme Court and is awaiting their decision. Following are rates for murder and nonnegligent manslaughter for DC and several states from the FBI uniform crime reports for 2002. Rates are events per 100,000 population. I guess these data blow the theory that restricting (or trying to restrict) access to guns lowers violent crime rates, at least for those who prefer to make decisions on a more rational basis.http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/02cius.htmDC.46.2Kansas 2.9Missouri 5.8Montana 1.8Iowa 1.5South Dakota1.4Maine1.1North Dakota0.8North Dakota had the lowest rate for 2002 yet it probably has a higher proportion of households with guns than the majority of other states.For the record, I have owned guns for 57 years, served 6 years in a Military Police Unit, and, like Shatt, passed my Kansas CCW shooting and written exams with perfect scores. I actively supported passage of the Kansas CCW law. Guns are not a panacea but they are an effective tool for defense of self or others. That is why even London Bobbies are now beginning to carry guns. I also understand that there are those who believe strongly that guns are an evil and should be eliminated. I view them as a tool that can be used for good or evil. The M1 Garand I carried in basic training played a crucial role in the positive outcome of WW II.

TopJayhawk 6 years, 8 months ago

dminear60...I don't know about that particular study. But usually the CDC includes in their statistics all suicides, all gang shootings. All who are shot while commiting a crime, by citizens and law enforcement.and yes all accidents, and murders. I think this does skew that statistic somewhat.

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

dminear60,Exactly! The statistics you've read. Or better yet, the statistic you chose to read. Every statistic you listed involved a crime of some sort, whether it be neglect on the gun owner's part, illegally possessing a firearm, etc.. Criminals are not being given Concealed Carry Licenses. Law-abiding citizens who successfully complete the necessary training are given the licenses. If you're promoting crime-control, I'm with you all the way! "Gun-control" will NEVER keep guns away from criminals. "Gun-Free Zones" will NEVER stop murderers.

gogoplata 6 years, 8 months ago

You cannot convince me that concealed carry makes anyone safer. And, I cannot convince you of the converse. The statistics I have read tell me we do not need more guns.Fine. You stay away from guns, and I will carry. The people who want to carry guns don't need people like you telling us where we can and cannot take them. "Don't tread on Me" is the spirit of freedom. Live and let live. You stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. What the hell has happened to this country? Where did all the interventionists come from?

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

Good point, Shatt. Proponents of "gun-control" always complain that they wouldn't feel safe knowing that someone next to them was carrying a gun, when the fact is, they stand next to people carrying guns every day. And if asked, I bet most of them would say they feel safe nearly everywhere they go. That's the beauty of Concealed Carry.

beatrice 6 years, 8 months ago

"But usually the CDC includes in their statistics all suicides, all gang shootings. All who are shot while commiting a crime, by citizens and law enforcement.and yes all accidents, and murders. I think this does skew that statistic somewhat."Yes, those pesky murders, accidents, gang shootings and suicides always seem to get in the way of statistics on gun deaths. I understand that a large number of the gun-related deaths sited in statistics are suicides, and it has long been argued that if guns weren't readily available then people would just kill themselves another way. That always made sense to me. Studies, however, indicate that this isn't true, which came as a surprise to me. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0406GoldenSide0406.htmlInteresting story. I'm not saying we should take peoples' guns away because someone might kill themselves with one, just that counting suicides by those using guns are resonable when looking at the numbers of deaths by guns each year.

Cai 6 years, 8 months ago

dminear - Kids die from accidental gun usage because they're uneducated about gun safety (or ignoring what they've learned). Put a gun in a toybox for standard middle class kids that have only been told how bad guns are? They'll play with it, almost every time. Put a gun in a toybox for the kids of hunters, gun advocates, or kids that have been through gun safety for some other reason? They'll remove it carefully and then leave it alone.Those accidental deaths are mostly an issue of education - not ownership.

dminear60 6 years, 8 months ago

Cai: Education and ownership do not always go hand in hand. Ergo the number of accidental deaths.

rcr 6 years, 8 months ago

"Can anyone provide an example of a CC'er stopping a crime or perp in the commission of a crime?"This is from a coulpe of years ago in Tulsa, OK. Was this the right thing to do? Make your own judgement.Tulsa - The search continues for two would-be grocery store robbers, one of whom was shot by a customer last week. The Homeland store near 89th and Memorial was in the process of being held up when one of the customers pulled a concealed weapon and shot one of the suspects. The citizen had a permit for the weapon and was not cited for any wrongdoing. But, was it the right thing to do? NewsChannel 8's Yvonne Harris investigates whether citizens are safer when people are willing to take matters into their own hands."If he felt in danger he had every right to protect himself," says Brad Shelton.Shelton packs heat and has the permit that allows him to do so. If he had been in that Homeland store, he says he might have reacted differently and even slower when confronted with the would-be robbers."He would have had to be a little more aggressive for me," Shelton says. "But, every person draws that line somewhere else."That includes Ivan White. He is armed with a Kel-Tec .380 and is not afraid to use it. He's glad the man who shot the would-be robber will not be charged."I agree with that totally," White says. "He was in the right. He was in the fight of his life."And, the support continues from the shooting range -- even from the professionals, like Marshall Luton with the Tulsa Police Department."I thought it was outstanding that we had a citizen that was prepared and capable and trained well enough to take care of the situation," Luton says.If there is one thing last weekend's shooting proved for some is what they believe is the necessity for concealed weapons."Just for safety reasons with all the carjackings, you just never know what's going to happen or where its going to happen."

beatrice 6 years, 8 months ago

Cai is advocating for putting guns in toy boxes!!! You monster!!!Seriously, education is a good thing, especially from parents who own, but really for all kids. The response of the kid who finds the gun you hid in the toybox, however, is likely to depend on the age of the child. But you can't say accidental gun deaths aren't also a matter of ownership. For an accidental death to happen, someone must own the weapon, no? There must be a gun available with which to have an accidental death, and so it won't happen in the home of those who don't own unless one is brought in from the outside -- from another owner. This is rare, and most accidental deaths happen in the homes where the gun is owned. It is a matter of education AND ownership. shatt, relax already. The suicide article wasn't for or against guns, but just an interesting article on suicides that shows that when the object someone chooses to committ suicide with (gun, bridge, gas, etc.) is removed, the person doesn't necessarily move on to another way to commit suicide. That is reason why some may want to include suicides in a total number of gun deaths per year. It is a reasoned concept, but of course suicides will still happen, with or without guns. So chill.

davidnta 6 years, 8 months ago

I'm going to be simple and say I don't agree that we should carry weapons on campus.

booyalab 6 years, 8 months ago

MandM (Anonymous) says:"But keep in mind. A person with a CC license is not obligated to "stop a crime". They have the license to defend their life or the lives of others. Not to be a police officer" uh uh! Police officers have no legal obligation to protect, either!http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176m.htmlhttp://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176notes.html#83

Paul Decelles 6 years, 8 months ago

How's this- Students should not be allowed to carry guns on campus-only professors should have that right. All of the sudden faculty meetings would get a lot more interesting.

jtrav77 6 years, 8 months ago

rdragon makes a great point, which takes me back to a comment I made earlier. The common denomenator here is that we all want to see crime rates drop. I'm all in favor of Concealed Carry on campus AND a decrease in crime.Someone please provide a link to government-provided statistics showing that gun-related crime/murders increased due to the passing of the Concealed Carry law. I want to see that statistic. Cool mentioned NY, but I want to see the actual statistics that specifically point to the Concealed Carry program as being the cause of an increase in murder rates. I can tell you now, you won't find it. If anything, the Concealed Carry law has helped to decrease gun-related crime/murders.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 7 months ago

Guns are illegal on campus.What part of illegal dont you understand?Enroll into KU and expect them to make changes for your paranioa?Please.Go somewhere else and go to school.

simplykristib 6 years, 7 months ago

No, no. People carrying concealed weapons on campus will not stop a mass shooting. When a shooting occurs, people should move away from the area quickly and pick up the cell phones they are carrying and call 9-1-1. Let the authorities handle it. After all, we do pay law enforcement to protect us.

ralphralph 6 years, 7 months ago

Only the deranged should be able to carry, and to shoot as many of us as possible before doing themselves in ... to shoot back would be detrimental to the shooter's self esteem.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 7 months ago

cool, you're gonna get marioni irked at you if you stay on this tack. You don't want that, do you?

vpete69 6 years, 7 months ago

gogo...stuff like that can bring out the violence in anyone. 'Gun-toters' and the 'no-statistic-bringing liberals' alike.

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