Asked at Massachusetts Street on September 18, 2007

“It’s always been an important issue to me. I worked in long-term health care for 20 years, and now I’m getting to an age where it’s becoming a personal concern and not just a professional one.”

— Lenise Eddings, manager/artist, Wellsville

“Extremely important. I think health care and education are my two top issues, but I don’t think one is more important than the other. They are both at the top of my list.”

— Devin Halsey, cook, Lawrence

“I would say I’m concerned about it, but I haven’t heard any ideas that would make a difference in who I vote for.”

— Bruce Hull, list manager, Parkville, Mo.

“It’s pretty important, but maybe not the most important. I’ve got a child on the way, so it’s definitely something to think about.”

— Anna Feyen, personal care assistant, Lawrence

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Healthcare is important, but just don't ask me to pay for folks that can afford it but just choose to spend their money elsewhere. It is important enough for me to vote for someone that does not support universal care. .

snap_pop_no_crackle 5 years, 8 months ago

You should be concerned with your health when making any important decisions.

Norman Hsu wasn't taking care of himself properly on his recent train ride & look what happened to him.

cutny 5 years, 8 months ago

Pretty selfish attitude there. I don't drive and I pay for the roads. I don't have kids and I pay for schools. The list goes on, I'm sure, so get over yourselves.

jonas 5 years, 8 months ago

I tend not to make it a primary issue, for the simple reason that I simply don't know enough actual facts to conclude whether universal or private health care holds the greater balance of positives against negatives. To be honest, though, with our current political climate, individual issues in general to tend to get blurred a little bit for me in presidential nominations, as most of the potential nominatees are just caricatured collages of appeal to different interest groups. At least, that's how they look to me.

canyon_wren 5 years, 8 months ago

Health care is important to me, but since I seriously doubt that any of the candidates will either go ahead and pursue what they claim they will do, or even have the power to do so, it certainly wouldn't be the deciding factor in choosing from among the candidates.

I have always thought that a national health insurance program should be connected some way to our Federal income tax returns--which would make it possible for those who are self-employed to have coverage. We have so many categories of employment (good mechanics, landscape garders, etc., etc.) that could be filled by capable people who would rather not work in some boring office job, but do so because of the benefits. A national health insurance plan available to those people would certainly benefit our country in general and would still reward those who are actually working for a living.

Let's not get carried away by the pre-election rhetoric and make a wrong choice in 2008!

toefungus 5 years, 8 months ago

Universal Health Care:No Universal Insurance:Yes

75x55 5 years, 8 months ago

Like 'government' is the solution? Egads.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Like the current system works? Egads.

75x55 5 years, 8 months ago

Oh, DotsLines, what would John Edwards say about that.......

All poor humor aside, you're exactly on the mark - unfortunately, nothing will happen there because the inmates are running the asylum.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

It is important to me. We all ready spend more money per capita on healthcare than any nation in the world...and it isn't because we are spending that money on patient care. It is because all elements of the healthcare system have stockholders to answer to, and stockholders are more important than patients...

75x55 5 years, 8 months ago

"Like the current system works? Egads."

ha, ha - turning the phrase, I get it...how cute.

The 'current system' is already blighted with rampant governmental tampering and controls. Pouring more gasoline on the fire certainly isn't going to put it out.

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 5 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ceallach 5 years, 8 months ago

Canyon_wren's first paragraph says it for me. What a candidate "says" and what they actually can/do accomplish if elected are almost always different.

How old are people who would vote for someone because they "hope" to give us a Utopian health care, or any other such system? Those voters need to hide and watch for a few elections, then they will understand why the older coots and cootesses do not use campaign promises as a basis for their vote. It's what they have done, not what they say they will do . . . btw, if they haven't had time to DO much, they have to make an trail of successful actions for my vote. Every single time the government has done something for me (just because they care so darned much) I've ended up scred. No dinner, no kiss, just scred.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

So what IS the solution? We both agree that the system is broken.

I think that insurance companies should be taken out of the healthcare business or at the very least, be strictly regulated to control costs and ensure that no one goes without treatment.

That's the problem with all the politics on this issue. All anyone is saying is "no" to a national system, but many are acknowledging that the status quo is horribly inefficient (and quite possibly dangerous to our health) while offering no other solutions.

And I'm not just directing this at you, 75x55--I really haven't heard ANYONE who is opposed to a national system offer any suggestions to improve the state of healthcare in our nation. Hell, most Republicans don't even talk about healthcare anymore.

I'm fortunate to have a good health insurance plan, but it is still very expensive and someone is getting rich as a result. I personally think I would feel a little creeped out to be getting wealthy from those profits, but I guess some people have different ethical standards.

Azure_Attitude 5 years, 8 months ago

The program by FAUX news no doubt. High wait times in Canada are for elective procedures. Urgent care needs are met right away.

The government isn't who's f'ing up our helathcare system, it's the for-profit entities whose concern is their bottom line. Just look at the advertising costs that have increased presecrition drug prices, for one. Helath care is vital to the public interest and not something that should be for-profit.

I love the neocons that scream about how jacked up the government is, make a situation that is completely FUBAR, and then go, "see I told ya!" Get out of the way and let the people who can make a difference for their country do something. Neocons have clearly shown where their interests lie, for the betterment of themselves, and it is not for the benenfit of our nation.

You bet it's important to me! I have insurance but I talk to many people everyday that have health issues that can't get to a doctor because they don't have insurance.

conservativepunker 5 years, 8 months ago

Not as important as considering my rights to own and keep a firearm in my possession.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Guns cause over $100 billion per year in healthcare and lost productivity costs in this country. ;)

I think Hillary's health care plan was supposed to cost something like $110 billion per year (I'm not really sure, but I think that is what I read).

To keep it on topic, you know...

canyon_wren 5 years, 8 months ago

I'm with you on that one, conservative punker! I consider myself a conservative-environmentalist (and there are lots of us out there), and I abhor the availability of certain kinds of arms, but this right is paramount to a free society--and we seem to be losing our freedoms right and left.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

The plan is to make businesses responsible for universal health care by taxing them. Sounds great, huh, tax the bejesus out of big business, fun? But business taxes simply get passed on as higher costs to consumers. Then, as prices of American goods rises because of all the regulations as well as hefty labor union contracts chalked full of entitlements, more manufacturing moves overseas, jobs disappear.

One of the posts brought up the point that people can afford healthcare, they just choose to spend their discretionary income elsewhere. How many of you are williing to pay for their healthcare?

Now, how many of you think that having universal healthcare is important? If you do, don't whine about the consequences, which will reach down deep into your pocketbook.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

staff04 (Anonymous) says: Guns cause over $100 billion per year in healthcare and lost productivity costs in this country. ;)

Bull. What about the guns used by law enforcement and private citizens to stop crimes? What about the revenue coming from guns in the form of hunting licenses? What about the taxes collected for shooting ranges, firearms dealers and game preserves? Your statement is ridiculous, and I imagine, without a shred of proof or documentation.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

knee, I have a problem with your argument. You're assuming that a universal system would be new spending. If we took the money that we are currently spending on healthcare and put it into a more efficient, less profit-driven system we would still have the richest system in the world, and it could be done with no new costs--and actually, if done right, could save us money. If we took the profit of insurers and put it back into the system we would be the healthiest nation in the world, instead of having higher rates of disease and lower life expectancy than all the nations with a national system.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Kneejerk--

"Bull." "Your statement is ridiculous, and I imagine, without a shred of proof or documentation."

Maybe you should stop "imagining."

http://books.google.com/books?id=g9OanKJ41ZwC&dq=&pg=PP1&ots=Sn6qWdzV0k&sig=thcRFOWCAVxb33X6da1FOo2DrHI&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DMUS_enUS207US207%26q%3Dgun%2Bviolence%2Bcosts%2Bto%2Bhealthcare%2Bphilip%2Bj.%2Bcook&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title#PPR14,M1

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 5 years, 8 months ago

T_O_B. Barry McGuire singing "Eve of Destruction" angered the Site Staff Gods?

How dystopian.....

fayrae 5 years, 8 months ago

Health care is very important for all ages and the government needs to do something about it. As far as your comment (KS), just as (cutny) said, pretty selfish attitude!

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Oh, and that was published in 2000, so given the inflation in healthcare costs over the last few years, it is presumably a greater number now.

JJE007 5 years, 8 months ago

If I believed that, by choosing a particular presidential candidate, it would lead to some health care system reform, I'd buy or jump off a bridge. That would seem more sensible that awaiting the execution.

Wow! Bad mood! Must go!

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Staff04, here's some more information on your study that wasn't mentioned. Myth: The social cost of gun violence is $20-100 billion Fact: This "study"212 included the lifetime earnings of people that die from guns, not just the true social costs. This included lost incomes of criminals killed by law-abiding citizens, and costs associated with suicides, and the "emotional costs experienced by relatives and friends of gunshot victims, and the fear and general reduction in quality of life . . . including people who are not victimized". If the same methodology were used to calculate the social savings from private gun ownership, we would see a benefit to society of half a trillion dollars, or 10% of the 1999 US Gross Domestic Product. - 212 "The Financial Costs of Gun Violence", Linda Gunderson, Annals of Internal Medicine, Septemer 21, 1999

Godot 5 years, 8 months ago

If candidate promises to solve the healthcare crisis by controlling choice, requiring everyone to have insurance, with federal government interference, and raising taxes, I will not vote for her or him.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Staff04, and the rest of your "facts". Myth: You state that the social cost of gun violence is enormous Fact: Because guns are used an estimated 2.5 million times per year to prevent crimes, the cost savings in personal losses, police work, and court and prison expenses vastly outweighs the cost of criminal gun violence and gun accidents. The net savings, under a worst-case scenario, is about $3.5 billion a year.208 - reference; 208 Sterling Burnett, National Center for Policy Analysis, "Suing Gun Manufacturers: Hazardous to Our Health",

Staff04, and this doesn't take into account all the revenue from sales, hunting, etc., so the net is actually much higher than a positive $3.5 billion.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: You claim that universal health care will require our deep pocketbooks-how is that different from the status quo? (other than the fact that not everyone can obtain coverage under the status quo)

The difference, logicsound04, is the depth of involvement. The applecart will be upset and pureed and the Federal government is NOT the entity to manage this kind of drastic change. I don't know all the ramifications, of course, but neither does HIllary or anyone else. Common sense just tells me that something this pervasive will be a disaster and whoever pushes it will not get my vote.

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Okay, last post on this topic:

First, Gunderson was published in 1999, so I don't quite understand how you are asserting that it is a response to the Cook-Ludwig research, which was published in 2000.

Second, if you'll re-read my offending post, you'll note that I said "healthcare" AND "lost productivity," which you have proclaimed as "bull", and without a shred of proof. I provided a scholarly source to back up my claim, and comments about revenue from sales, license, etc. do nothing to refute my claim and that of Cook and Ludwig. Yes, they do mitigate, but they still do not make the claim "bull."

Lastly, I don't want to take away your guns. I shouldn't have even responded when conservativepunker posted, but you took the bait, and you've lost this argument.

FACT: Gun violence costs the nation over $100 billion/year in healthcare costs and lost productivity.

As David Letterman would say, "Suck it, loser." And I mean that in the most joking and cordial way.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

staff04, you're a gem. You're telliing me that a study posted in 2000 has more validity than a study posted a year earlier in 1999? These studies weren't done over a period of 6 months, dear, they were done over a period of decades. And, if you'll look at the end of each post, the bibliography & source is there. When confronted with facts and overwhelming evidence that what you posted was taken out of context, you simply proclaim yourself the victor. Brilliant.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 5 years, 8 months ago

Increasingly, our experiences with the CURRENT Administration have pointed to the importance of considering MENTAL health care, when choosing a Presidential candidate. With respect to the current Administration, a cabinet-level presence is indicated-a "medicine cabinet," if you will-chock full of heavy-duty psychotropics (IMNSHO).

staff04 5 years, 8 months ago

Ah, I thought you were making the claim that the Gunderson article was written as a response to the book... (when you put "study" in quotes, it appeared that you were stating that the Gunderson piece referred to the Cook-Ludwig book) I'm not saying it is less valid (and frankly, have made no comments even suggesting that), but what you posted is a discussion of an entirely different point than the one I have made, now multiple times. I didn't make any statements about crimes prevented by gun owners or law enforcement or hunting fees or gun purchases or any of the other miscellany you have responded with. I made a factual comment about costs in 2 areas--healthcare, and lost productivity. You proclaimed this was "bull," posted other information that is probably accurate but not to the point, and still haven't the stones to admit that I made a perfectly reasonable and factual statement, backed by research.

Your lack of comprehension of my argument in no way invalidates it.

With that, I am done with the argument. Disagree with me if you insist. That's what makes the world go 'round.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

staffinfection04 - still proclaiming victory, eh? Knock yourself out. At least you're not quoting David Letterman anymore.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says: Increasingly, our experiences with the current Administration have pointed to the importance of considering MENTAL health care, when choosing a Presidential candidate.

Would that be mental health of the administration or voters? good one....

Ceallach 5 years, 8 months ago

If the USA is to compare a national health care system proposal with the Canadian system we would also have to compare the govt entity that would be in control of the system with its counterpart in CAN. Unless those are very similar, if not equally, powered the comparison has no merit at all.

Where is ms_c when we need CAN govt info to compare with ours?

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

The question was, "How important to you is health care when choosing a presidential candidate?"

For me, very important.

We are at the beginning of a giant wave (Boomers) of old folks who will depend on the health care, pharmaceutical, and insurance systems/industries. That's "Group #1."

Folks born, say, 1965-1991 (I'm including the kids who got their first jobs over the summer)--that's two or three generations of people--"Group #2" who are working now, and are paying for the folks in Group #1.

Finally, the folks in Group #2 either have very young children now, or will be producing babies in the coming years. Those are the folks that more or less will be born into whatever "new system" we come up with.

As I see it, health care may turn out to be the single most-important issue America faces in the 21st Century.

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org

Azure_Attitude 5 years, 8 months ago

Blue, that would be the same John Stossle that suggested in another 20/20 piece that the California residence were hysterical and that the chemicals released by PG&E weren't really so harmful. Erin Brockovich told him, well, why don't you and each of your family members go drink a glass of it and then tell me it's not so bad.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 5 years, 8 months ago

kneejerkreaction says: "Would that be mental health of the administration or voters?"

They go foot-in-hand. (I think Bowie said it first.)

Followed, evidently, by foot-in-mouth. (Dubyuh, please extract it.)

average 5 years, 8 months ago

Why, why, why in the name of the Gods does your insurance have anything to do with your employment? Why? Why do even the Hillary and Obama plans continue this crap? Your boss doesn't jerk around with your car insurance, nor your house. Such insanity exists in no other country on the planet. So, you suddenly find yourself with a chronic condition or a sick child. You are a slave. If you get fired, you will have a hell of a time getting another full-time job with benefits. If your company goes bankrupt, or your employer decides to change health insurance to a plan that doesn't cover your treatment needs... so sorry, loser.

Bone777 5 years, 8 months ago

People who can't afford health care and are on government assisted programs should not have choices.

They should go to free clinics that are staffed by medical students that are paying off student loans or government clinics set up like HMO's. All medications should be generic and necessary with some pay scale involved. The only free medication should be birth control.

A very basic level of health care should be provided, with options increases with your ability to pay or your level of insurance.

llama726 5 years, 8 months ago

"Healthcare is important, but just don't ask me to pay for folks that can afford it but just choose to spend their money elsewhere. It is important enough for me to vote for someone that does not support universal care."

Why not? I have to pay for a ton of stuff I don't use. Like having a majority of the military in Iraq protecting me from nothing. I think most of my tax money goes toward that, as a matter of fact.

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

average (Anonymous) says:

"Why, why, why in the name of the Gods does your insurance have anything to do with your employment? Why? Why do even the Hillary and Obama plans continue this crap? Your boss doesn't jerk around with your car insurance, nor your house. Such insanity exists in no other country on the planet. So, you suddenly find yourself with a chronic condition or a sick child. You are a slave. If you get fired, you will have a hell of a time getting another full-time job with benefits. If your company goes bankrupt, or your employer decides to change health insurance to a plan that doesn't cover your treatment needs: so sorry, loser."

Damn, average... that is anything but!!! Exceptional, exceptional question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

average has most likely asked the best question so far this year!!

I've spent five or six minutes now, poking around on Wikipedia and other places, trying to find out who was the very first "employer" in America to offer some sort of health insurance coverage to their employees. I mean, somebody had to be 1st, right?!?

I hope a few others join in the search, and then post results here...

Thanks again for a great question, average! :)

--Ag

snap_pop_no_crackle 5 years, 8 months ago

Just last month. " A Canadian woman has given birth to extremely rare identical quadruplets. The four girls were born at a US hospital because there was no space available at Canadian neonatal intensive care units." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6951330.stm

sgtwolverine 5 years, 8 months ago

Very. I want my presidential candidates to be in good health.

Also: it's not really a given that health care would become more efficient if it weren't profit-driven.

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

Okay, found something:

"Employment-based health benefit programs have existed in the United States for more than 100 years. In the 1870s, for example, railroad, mining, and other industries began to provide the services of company doctors to workers. In 1910, Montgomery Ward entered into one of the earliest group insurance contracts. Prior to World War II, few Americans had health insurance, and most policies covered only hospital room, board, and ancillary services. During World War II, the number of persons with employment-based health insurance coverage started to increase for several reasons. When wages were frozen by the National War Labor Board and a shortage of workers occurred, employers sought ways to get around the wage controls in order to attract scarce workers, and offering health insurance was one option. Health insurance was an attractive means to recruit and retain workers during a labor shortage for two reasons: Unions supported employment-based health insurance, and workers' health benefits were not subject to income tax or Social Security payroll taxes, as were cash wages."

http://www.ebri.org/publications/facts/index.cfm?fa=0302fact

I guess the last sentence answers it: It was a means of compensation promoted by early unions, because they were exempt from taxes.

If that means that neither the employer nor the employee have to pay taxes on the health benefits, then the employer wins, as well. On paper, at least. At first.

--Ag

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

average (Anonymous) says: "Why, why, why in the name of the Gods does your insurance have anything to do with your employment?

You'll excuse me average if I don't gush over your question. The answer is quite simple. Employers perceive that they must offer benefits to attract good employees. If one company offers benefits and the other one doesn't, the good people will gravitate to one company, leaving the other company with the employee dregs. That's why employers not only offer health insurance as a benefit, but also other benefits.

Ceallach 5 years, 8 months ago

Just maybe it is because by doing so the employer bears part (if not the majority) of the health care program expense on behalf of their employees. It's called a benefit because it benefits the employee. If you don't think that is true just check out the price of non-employer related health programs.

merrill 5 years, 8 months ago

http://www.pnhp.org/

*Currently, about 64% of our health care system is financed by public money: federal and state taxes, property taxes and tax subsidies.

*These funds pay for Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, coverage for public employees (including teachers), elected officials, military personnel, etc.

*There are also hefty tax subsidies to employers to help pay for their employees' health insurance. About 17% of heath care is financed by all of us individually through out-of-pocket payments, such as co-pays, deductibles, the uninsured paying directly for care, people paying privately for premiums, etc.

**National Health Insurance creates freedom of choice for medical care. Patients are not restricted to a certain list of doctors,clinics etc.

The folks receiving care under these programs are not complaining about the government paying their bills. So when another 36% is added then we all have healthcare thus preventing some situations to get severe thus more costly to treat. Considering 33% of healthcare is administrative due I would estimate that citizens could expect 28% of the needed 36% is there now which would be transferred to medical care instead of paperwork. We're almost there.

There is no desire to duplicate what any other country is doing. The object is to provide medical care for all USA style.

===========

Excellent diet,exercise and rest is the way to cut back on medical costs.

The bottom line there is no way to judge a National Health Insurance Plan until we try it. There is no desire to duplicate what any other country is doing. The object is to provide medical care for all USA style.

The high profit healthcare insurance industry does not like the idea so are laying out tons of special interest campaign money not to mention spreading words about how awful healthcare for all would be for american citizens. According to radio news Hillary Clinton has received the largest sums of healthcare special interest dollars thus far but not the only candidate.

Isn't it time to have YOUR medical care dollars spent on medical care instead of on medical care instead of on political campaigns,excessive paperwork and obscene CEO pay packages?

http://www.pnhp.org/

merrill 5 years, 8 months ago

It is in the top three items on my list. Providing healthcare for all is important to this country both from a compassionate and economic point of view.

Kansas Health Care For All Presents a Community Forum on

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE ACCESS

THE CASE FOR NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE

Dr. David Goering, MD Chairman, Kansas Health Care For All Speaker and Moderator

Distinguished Panel of Speakers and Commentators

Dr. Bill Roy, MD Former United States Congressman 1971-1975

Dr. Raymond Davis, PhD Professor Emeritus, KU Department of Public Administration

Dr. Michael Fox, ScD President, Kansas Health Consumer Coalition

Interactive discussion with the audience and panelists follows

Lawrence Memorial Hospital Auditorium Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7-9 PM

For more information go to: www.khcfa.org Kansas Health Care For All Presents a Community Forum on

sunshine_noise 5 years, 8 months ago

I have believe this for years that health should be available to everyone equally no matter the income status. Before health insurance health care was more accessible, once they reeled us in I knew the healthcare insurance providers would become greedy and that is exactly what has happened. I vote for Hillary Clinton anyday.

Bone777 5 years, 8 months ago

"I have believe this for years that health should be available to everyone equally no matter the income status."

Holy cow, that sounds good. How about these......

I have believe this for years that housing should be available to everyone equally no matter the income status.

I have believe this for years that food should be available to everyone equally no matter the income status.

I have believe this for years that transportation should be available to everyone equally no matter the income status.

I can quit my job now. If I want better, who needs work, I'll just vote for Billary Clinton.

average 5 years, 8 months ago

The interesting thing is that most businesses also don't want to be involved in the health care. It is a huge hassle for them to hire plan administrators, calculate the expenses, deal with changing families, figure out what they can get away with without losing too many employees, and try to avoid hiring people who will drive up the cost of their group plan. Any owner of a business with less than 5,000 employees would gladly divest themselves of that headache.

15% (and growing) of the US GDP is spent on health care. A third of that on insurance and billing overhead. 5% of our entire nation's output! In the rest of the first world, it's well under 1% of GDP. This is a substantial drain on our nation... a parasitic burden on businesses that has been a major detriment to our economic competitiveness.

Bone777 5 years, 8 months ago

"Equally" is the key word.

You want more, you do more. Don't care, get less.

Basic services for all. Upgraded services for willing to pay.

75x55 5 years, 8 months ago

Another recent gem from Queen Hillary:

"She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview - like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress."

The fact that she can "envision" that day....

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 5 years, 8 months ago

Bone, Just asking for clarification...

Are you saying that equal â fairness?
That fairness is a subjective term? That what constitutes fairness for one individual, may not be fair for another individual? So rather than use the word equally, the key would be to use the word fairly?

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

I promise not to get started on this thing as I am in a foul mood today and this is one of my pet peeves. Some of you may know that we have public health care from the cradle to the grave and it suits me just fine. A while ago we had a Premier of our Province who was expressing views of adding private insurance programs to our system. Well, a citizens committee set up to combat that grew and grew like Topsy. The next year the little jerk bowed out of politics. I guess he got the picture. We will keep our health care system just the way it is, thank you. With improvement added from time to time, thank you.

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

average (Anonymous) says:

"The interesting thing is that most businesses also don't want to be involved in the health care. It is a huge hassle for them to hire plan administrators, calculate the expenses, deal with changing families, figure out what they can get away with without losing too many employees, and try to avoid hiring people who will drive up the cost of their group plan. Any owner of a business with less than 5,000 employees would gladly divest themselves of that headache.

"15% (and growing) of the US GDP is spent on health care. A third of that on insurance and billing overhead. 5% of our entire nation's output! In the rest of the first world, it's well under 1% of GDP. This is a substantial drain on our nation: a parasitic burden on businesses that has been a major detriment to our economic competitiveness."

Question: Do you see a future--either near or distant--in which employers will be completely out of the "Health Benefits Game?" If so, how do you think this will come about? If employers were "forced" to compete in a job market where compensation was measured (almost) exclusively on wages and salaries--which are taxed--what would that impact be on our health care system, not to mention our tax revenue?

According to the page I found earlier, employers began offering health plans because that form of compensation was not taxable. Perhaps we've reached a point where it's cheaper to go ahead and pay the payroll taxes, rather than pay rising costs for health care plans?

Some other things to consider, along these lines...

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2007/

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2007/full_list/

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2007/benefits/health_care.html

http://www.greatplacetowork.com/best/index.php

--Ag

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

ms_canada:

You've no doubt noticed that there's a pretty good slice of Americans that think Canada's health care system is... well... "sick."

To what extent do you think the perceptions floating around here--long lines, long waits, poor coverage, the whole "socialism" schtick--are true? Can you help separate the fact from the fallacy... from your perspective, at least?

Thanks!

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

blue harley - apolgy accepted, no offense taken. It is true that we do have long wait times but at least we eventually do get the surgery done. And money is not the factor. One thing I can say, there are those in the medical profession who are trying to come up with ways to eliminate the long waits and in our city a good plan was formulated and is working. These surgeries that we are talking about as being slow are usually non life threatening ones like hip and knee surgery. And what a coincidence that this question came up today. Yesterday my 86 year old sister in law fell for the umpteenth time and finally broke the other hip. She went to surgery immediately for a replacement. If the situation is bad, it gets done sooner. On Dec. 28 last, in great pain, I was taken in immediately at the emerg depart as they suspected a heart attack. It was gall stones. The second attack came on Feb. 11 which was not so severe and I had to wait awhile. Others with more acute conditions went ahead of me. Its called triage. Look it up if you don't know. And on Mar. 22 I had surgery. I think that was fairly guick. I can't complain.

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

conservative punker - I wish someone would explain to me why all you citizens down there feel the need to bear a weapon. We here in Canada don't seem to feel that same need. Why is that? Anyone know?

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

ms_canada (Anonymous) says: conservative punker - I wish someone would explain to me why all you citizens down there feel the need to bear a weapon. We here in Canada don't seem to feel that same need. Why is that? Anyone know?

Because Ms Canada, we don't want to be like Canada. In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000) this from Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2004 and FBI Uniform Crime Statistics online.

It's common knowledge that your crime rate grew as your gun ban gained a foothold.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Ms Canada, I answered your question in view of violent crime, but the other answer to your question is that we enjoy our heritage of hunting and we value our constitutional right to bear arms.

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

kneejerk guy - I am totally shocked by what you say. I always thought this was a thoroughly safe country. I should not say that I disbelieve what you have said but I will have to look up those stats for myself. I just need to know where all this crime is taking place, certainly not in my city. I would go anywhere in Edmonton, day or night and not have the slightest fear and I am not an idiot. I don't understand these atats that you quote.. As far as guns go, my husband has a rifle for hunting deer and moose but he gave the hunting up a few years back. Said he could not bear to shoot such a beautiful creature any more.

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

Agnostick - may I suggest that sometime, when you have a bit of free time, you google in Canada Health Act. You can read all about our government mandated health care system. We have certain rights to universal health care, and I guess that is what we like about it. No one is left out and not able to get care because of lack of funds. I certainly don't hear half the amount of complaining here as I hear from you yanks down there. The only time I hear complaints is when someone proposes to change it into something resembling the US system.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Ms Canada, my sources are all documented, you can check at will, here's another. Just because you are not in the midst of crime doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian prairie provinces than in the northern US states across the border. This came from your own country's research - "A Comparison of Violent and Firearm Crime Rates in the Canadian Prairie Provinces and Four U.S. Border States, 1961-2003", Parliamentary Research Branch of the Library of Parliament, March 7, 2005

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

max1 (Anonymous) says: http://www.fradical.com/Violent_crime_st: canada's murder rate has dipped to its lowest level since 1967, falling by 7% to 1.73 victims per 100,000 population.

Max1, you left out the rest of the article.....I've cut and pasted it below... However, it was still 35% higher than 20 years ago (Statistics Canada, The Daily, July 21, 2005).

merrill 5 years, 8 months ago

According to radio new last week which noted Hillary Clinton as the largest receiver of healthcare special interest campaign money...thus far.

average 5 years, 8 months ago

I'm not sure there are huge tax implications. In many circumstances, you can deduct money you directly spend on health care from your taxes. I have a Health Savings Account and my contributions to it are tax-deductible beyond my standard deduction (I don't itemize). So far, I've only used it as a 25% discount on eyeglasses. I think personal health insurance premiums should be tax-exempt up to a fairly comprehensive plan.

The problem is universality. I have private health insurance right now. It's affordable, because I'm healthy. However, they can drop me or raise my rates sky high at will. The last company I had health insurance with stopped offering insurance in Kansas. If I had had a medical condition at that point, I could not have gotten the affordable insurance I have now. As a result, I'm honestly scared to see a physician. I know I have moderately high blood pressure (and I'm trying to control it myself). But, if I saw a doctor for something else and he put it on the chart, my health insurance costs would double. Thus, I haven't seen a physician at all for anything in over ten years, despite a few illnesses and injuries.

Meanwhile, I have a friend in Winnipeg. His physician sends out reminder notes for a checkup if he hasn't been in for three years.

sunflower_sue 5 years, 8 months ago

"The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian prairie provinces than in the northern US states across the border."

I wonder if it has something to do with the lack of people that live in those nothern border states??? Besides the provinces being somewhat HUGE compared to our itty bitty states??? C'mon, apples and oranges here...don't ya think?

Oh, healthcare...yes, it's important.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Max1, so? Your have carefully picked cities like KCK, Junction, Topuka and Washyta which are known for violent crimes. Show me the stats on Garden City, Ness City, Baldwin, etc.

Ceallach 5 years, 8 months ago

Speaking of the cost of health care for prisoners . . .Breaking News . . . O.J. Simpson has been charged with kidnapping and seven other felonies.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

sunflower_sue (Anonymous) says: "The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian prairie provinces than in the northern US states across the border." I wonder if it has something to do with the lack of people that live in those nothern border states??? Besides the provinces being somewhat HUGE compared to our itty bitty states??? C'mon, apples and oranges here:don't ya think?

Did you say the "lack of people"??!! You mean like in Seattle, Chicago, Detroit, etc...c'mon. There are no apples & oranges here, just people and relative crime rates and the study quoted is a Canadian study. If you insist on disbelieving, fine, but the facts are that Canada's strict gun laws have done nothing to make Canada safer than the US.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Ceallach (Anonymous) says: Speaking of the cost of health care for prisoners :Breaking News : O.J. Simpson has been charged with kidnapping and seven other felonies.

Best news I've heard all day. Good. It would be great to see him sent away for the maximum sentence.

Ceallach 5 years, 8 months ago

Indeed!!

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

ceal - think he will finally get his just deserts, or did you always think he was innocent as opposed to not guilty?

Sigmund 5 years, 8 months ago

"Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that a mandate requiring every American to purchase health insurance was the only way to achieve universal health care but she rejected the notion of punitive measures to force individuals into the health care system." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ap_interview_6

I was prepared to hate her ideas, but on this she appears very close to getting it right. If you want every citizen to have health insurance (much like every driver must have auto insurance) then simply require people to buy the cheapest possible insurance, $10,000 - $20,000 deductibles for major illnesses only. Of course you can, if you want and can afford the additional premiums, get a better plan that covers more with lower deductibles. But everyone must be required to purchase a bare minimum policy.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

We all hope OJ's just deserts will be served on a tin plate.

topekan7 5 years, 8 months ago

It's not important at all. Politicians have no reason to get involved with health care unless they become doctors or nurses.

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

I am learning so much about my country from you guys today. Here I have been labouring under the delusion that we only had 3 prairie provinces; Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. I wonder what the fourth one is called.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Ms_Canada, then glad you could tune in. Actually the term prairie province is increasingly used for only Manitoba and Saskatchewan. British Columbia was never officially a PP, but lumped into the mix.

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

knee out

ms_canada 5 years, 8 months ago

are you gone yet, knee - Manitoba is all prairie, also Saskatchewan and it is true that Alberta has mountains but is mainly prairie. B. C. is all mountain right down to the sea. The regions of Canada east to west are unofficially called by her citizens, the Maritimes, which are Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island or PEI, New Brunswick,(the only one I have not visited or lived in) and Nova Scotia. Then there is central Canada, Quebec and Ontario, don't know why they are called central because to me they are far east. Then the prairies (3) and lonely old British Columbia or B.C. on the west coast. I have lived in Sask. Alta. and B.C. And if I had to say I would choose B. C. as my fav because of the mountains and valley areas.

purplesage 5 years, 8 months ago

Health care is a top 3 issue with me. With Mrs. Clinton running as strong as she is in the Democrat field, it is imperative that something get done to resolve the impending health care crisis. Her plan will bring Canadian-like mediocrity and government control.

Health care needs to be 1. Accessible 2. Affordable 3. Of high quality. Everyone should pay the same price. Managed care is a fiasco, modeled as it is after Medicare. Hospitals, doctors and other providers need to charge fair prices for what they do; patients need to get off this kick of suing everybody when something medical doesn't work out.

If health care is the question, Hillary isn't the answer!

sfjayhawk 5 years, 8 months ago

To me health care is a human right. Good, quality care should not be reserved only for the rich. Anyone who considers themselves Christian should agree that all people deserve health care regardless of their financial place in society. Jesus cared for the sick and the poor.

Godot 5 years, 8 months ago

Zero importance. Nada.

sunflower_sue 5 years, 8 months ago

Ms_C, I am also getting an education. I just learned that Chicago is in a northern border state. I always thought it was in Illinois right here in the good ol' midwest. Maybe they are "lumping" it in there because it borders a great lake? I guess with that logic, we have somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 "northern border states." (Best guess w/out a map...and yes, I counted Alaska.) Wonder what the folks in Grand Forks think of that?

Godot 5 years, 8 months ago

What does Ms Hillary have to say about the giant, looming problem of the unfunded Medicare obligation facing our nation? Medicare is an unfunded nightmare that will spread its stink like a continuous load of diaper genies over the next 15 years. What is her solution for keeping this promise made by the government that it cannot fulfill while piling more unfufillable promise upon unfulfillable promise?

kneejerkreaction 5 years, 8 months ago

Actually the study I quoted was regarding FOUR US states, not Four Can. prairie provinces....of course there are only 3.

Godot 5 years, 8 months ago

look at public education after forty years of union influence and government incompentece; project that 40, or less, years, on government run health care. The difference is, at least for now, parents can opt out of public education if they are willing to foot the bill; HillaryCare would eliminate that freedom when it comes to your health and lifestyle choices. Hillary Choice is liberal speak for No Choice, You Do What We Tell You.

Martin_D_15 5 years, 8 months ago

I have a great job with great insurance. I do NOT need the government to SCREW it up. And I will not pay for those whiney, lazy, mudders who sit on their butts and freeload.

Everytime the federal government gets involved, I guarantee that it gets MESSED UP!

so, get off your lazy butt and get a job! mickey d's even has benefits for you business graduates!

Stain 5 years, 8 months ago

Godot: Talk to people in France, Canada, and Sweden. Hillary's plan may not be The One but America has the worst health care in the industrialized world. Surely you aren't so selfish that you don't care about this, just because you have your own figured out.

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