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Should the HPV vaccine be included in the required inoculations for sixth-grade girls?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 26, 2007

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Photo of Mike Fonseca

“I would think so. Prevention is the key. I used to work for Medicare, and they’re finally starting to figure that out. In the long run, it saves lives and money.”

Photo of Dee Dee Runge

“I don’t think so. I think it should definitely be made available but not required.”

Photo of Tatyana Voronin

“I really think it should be up to the parents to decide.”

Photo of Connor Lyons

“No. I think it should be suggested or recommended, but not necessarily required.”

Comments

sharron5rs 7 years, 2 months ago

Lori I dont agree that once your body has defeated it thats it. I do know people that had the virus as a teen. Was treated and never had another problem for 19 years. All paps were clear. Less than a year after the last pap had another pap, and is now had a High Risk. Pap positive HPV. I am glad you will have your daughters get inoculated. As I said before, If they had had this injection when my 3 daughters were teens They would had gotten it . My big thing on making it mandotary is the fact that kids are having relations earlier than even 20years ago. The age of kids having sex is now about 12-13 yrs. It is not only intercourse but alot of oral sex ,that they dont conceder to be sex at all. We all should know that the earlier that they start to experment, the earlier they will "go all the way". NO matter what kind of home they come from! Most kids Will try something good homes or not. If they get the injection with the rest of their regular injections what is the difference? I think I heard about a booster injection being devolped? I am not sure just what shot is mandatory now. Hep.B's are now aren't they? I didn't I read about any ruckus about it being mandatory? I know it is not the same kind of dieases but ... it is mandatory. I'm not worried about the responsible parents that would get their daughters inocualted. I am worried about all the self rightious people who KNOW THEIR KIDS WOULDN"T EVER DO SUCH A THING.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

lori, As you have read in my posts, I do not favor mandating this vaccination.

Routine and regular gynecological exams can, for females, mitigate the effects of an HPV viral infection. These exams are important to women's health, as HPV viral infections and effects are not the sole issue in womens health.

I also do not feel that this innoculation is "the cat's pajamas" or "the bee's knees" at this time.

I do though however feel that this particular inoculation currently the best thing available. Yes, this vaccine is only effective with 4 types of the virus. Those 4 types of the HPV virus are correlated to 90% of HPV caused cancers. I feel the protection offered is warrant to receive this inoculation. Innoculation with this vaccine will not impede the use of future HPV vaccines. Because the form of this vaccine, it is extremely safe. The HPV vaccine is "funded" through the VFC program, for any child 18 not covered for this vaccine through health insurance.

There are behaviors and ways to prevent, mitigate and manage HPV exposure and infection, but most of those efforts have little effect to stem the spread of this virus.

I do not like mandates.

I will have my daughter inoculated. I hope to be able to have my sons inoculated.

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lori 7 years, 2 months ago

I want to protect my children, too. I understand that you feel passionate about protecting children. But I also am a very cautious consumer in regards to health care. The first generation of this particular vaccine is not my first choice for protecting my daughters against HPV. I'd rather wait a couple of more years, have more info in regards to the efficacy and longer-term effects of this particular immunization, and what the virus' response to this is. How fast does this sucker mutate, for example? Is it similar to the flu virus, which mutates so quickly as to make vaccines obsolete withing 10 months? Or will research outpace the vaccine, with subsequent generation vaccines covering more viral subtypes? I am comfortable waiting a couple of years to see what develops in this area because I know the current offerings for HPV care and followup will protect my child from this cancer. She does not fall into the high risk categories at this time--no DES exposure, doesn't smoke, doesn't take hormones, doesn't have a family history of cervical cancer and isn't currently sexually active with a history of multiple partners.

I don't feel that mandating vaccination is the only way, or even the best way to protect our children. Offering the vaccine along with other routine vaccines, making the info readily available at routine office visits and health classes, funding the vaccine to make it more affordable, continuing to encourage research on HPV treatments and continuing to work to help women understand the importance of lifelong routine health care are in my opinion better ways of protecting our children.

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lori 7 years, 2 months ago

Alright, you are correct, I misspoke. Let me restate it absolutely correctly: Routine pap smears and annual exams remain the gold standard for preventing complications from the HPV virus.

Routine annual exams monitor any existing lesions; office visits are all that are required to remove most lesions that the body does not take care of on it's own. However, most lesions resolve on their own, even up to 30% of lesions from high-risk strains of HPV that are considered one stage removed from being a cancerous lesion.

Big deal if the virus stays in your system forever. Once your body has defeated it, that's that. It's like a cold virus--there are hundreds of them, too. You typically don't get sick with the same one twice. I'm not freaking about about any cold viruses, and I'm not going to freak out about HPV, either.

Look, all the information that you are stating is correct, and it is nothing new to me, or anyone who works in women's health. So you aren't telling me anything new, or making me feel like it is so urgent that we immediately mandate that all 11 year old girls can't go to school until they get the HPV vaccine, otherwise their lives and health are at risk. That last part simply isn't true.

My daughters are more likely to die from about a thousand other things than she is from an HPV infection. About 5000 women a year in the US die of cervical cancer. Most haven't had any health care or haven't had a pap in over 5 years. The current trend we are seeing in regards to women developing and dying from cervical cancer are immigrants and women over 40 who do not, for what ever reason, get routine paps. If these women aren't getting routine paps or health care, what makes you think they will get their routine HPV immunization? That shot that they get when they are 11 isn't necessarily going to provide them with ANY protection when they are middle aged, and certainly not against the many viruses that the current immunization doesn't cover.

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sharron5rs 7 years, 2 months ago

Routine pap smears and annual exams remain the gold standard for preventing HPV infection;

Lori, Routine paps and annual exams do not prevent HPV infections. Not having sex or protection prevents getting HPV. Even condoms do not always protect against HPV, as this virus not only is carried in the vagina but on the surrounding skin. On males it is not only carried in the penis, but on the shaft as well as on the testicles. I do agrea that they do need a vaccine for the males. But as for now it is only for the feamale population.

As I said befire this virus may lay dormant for years before showing up again. It may Never show up, but once you have the virus YOU ALWAYS HAVE IT!

Until they get something for the males. We NEED to protect our children. We have the rescource for our daughters. I hope soon we will have it for our sons.

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lori 7 years, 2 months ago

Avoice's doc was not incorrect when he/she told her that if she was having "female troubles" cervical cancer was one of the least common causes. Few women present at a doctor's office with complaints of "female trouble" and end up with a diagnosis of cervical cancer. The vast majority of cervical cancers are diagnosed in women who have either never had a pap smear, or who have not had one in greater than 5 years. It is very rare for a woman to seek out routine health care and to be diagnosed with cancer at some point in her life. I've been working in a women's health clinic for about 6 years, and off the top of my head I can only think of one woman that we diagnosed with full blown cervical cancer. If someone is having symptoms of "female trouble" it is usually caused by a non-STD infection, a structural problem (a prolapse, for example), or a hormonal problem. Routine pap smears and annual exams remain the gold standard for preventing HPV infection; this vaccine won't change that. There are over 40 viral subtypes to the HPV virus that cause genital complications. This vaccine covers 4 of them. People (men and women) will still get HPV infections, and women will be diagnosed with HPV associated cervical lesions.

I am not against this vaccine; I am against it being mandated. I simply believe that parents, physicians and the girls themselves should be the ones involved in making the choice to get it.

And I don't think that anyone believes that getting the vaccine will make a girl promiscuous. That just doesn't make sense. I can respect alot of the arguments for the mandatory vaccination even if I don't agree with some of them; have a little respect for those of us who disagree with you.

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

So what you're saying, letsgetwise, is that if we can't trust one person's accuracy, we can't trust the conclusions of any large research body (such as CDC), which represents the findings of thousands of studies by thousands of physicians and clinical researchers? Instead, I suppose, we should each procure our own lab, raise a boatload of money, and do the research ourselves?

I think I'm being a little more reasonable. What I'm suggesting is that instead of relying on the offhand comment of ONE practicing physician (and then repeating it to everyone without checking its accuracy), we should research the knowledge that is "out there" (in text books, online, or whatever--as I suggested, the CDC is a good place to START), and draw our own conclusions after gaining the benefit of several sources of knowledge. You can get several sources in one swipe with the CDC, but there are other reputable sources.

While I didn't say that the CDC is the beginning and end of all knowledge, I would point out that they have access to a huge wealth of information--so the info they post on their website covers a vast amount of data. I would think it obvious that what they feel confident to post might draw from a deeper pool than any one person has in her head at any given moment.

I'm not sure what your point is, if not that we must each personally conduct all research ourselves, which is patently impossible. I'm not sure why you thought my response illogical (or whatever your issue was).

There's simply no comparison between accepting the comments of ONE doc (who, obviously, was NOT well informed) and making an attempt to learn the conclusions of thousands of docs & researchers, who have reached concurrence on the facts they present under the aegis of the CDC. (Or JAMA or NEJM, etc., if you will.)

Again--not to knock practicing physicians, but they often do not remember correctly every fact they ever learned in med school (how could anyone?), and some keep abreast of ongoing research better than others. At the very least, if someone asks pointed questions about HPV and cervical cancer, maybe the doc should tell the patient she will get back with her later, then go to her computer or current med journals and bone up a little before responding. If avoice's doc had done that, her response would have to have been different, since the research does not support what she told avoice.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Yes an genital HPV viral infection is a S.T.D. We need to define sex just a bit to continue. Those who say I will stay "pure" have to define purity. "I gave my word, I will stop at third" still puts our children at risk for HPV. (both female and male) We can not use the Bill Clinton definition of sex. Genital contact is the only thing we have to understand. This vaccine by nature of itself, will not foster more intimate exploration and or sexual promiscuity.

My view is to not make this vaccination required , but a vaccination by choice.

I do not think safety of the vaccination is an issue. This particular vaccine is the safest form of a viral vaccination. Will boosters be required after 5 years? Maybe. This will be an ongoing concern. Remember the in last two years, it was discovered that some mumps inoculations had to have boosters to assure continued protection.

The wonderful thing is that this vaccine is covered under the the national VFC program (Vaccines For Children). This program provides almost no cost vaccinations for children up to age 18 (yes, a $14.80 administrative fee may be charged) for uninsured, Medicaid eligible, native, and under-insured children. Under-insured includes children whose health insurance does not cover vaccinations. If one can not afford to pay the administrative fee, the VFC enrolled provider must still provide the vaccination. Your health care provider must be enrolled in the VFC program.

This is a very common viral infection.

"I'm not saying the statistics the CDC have are incorrect, although they're only as accurate as the reporting" I agree with letsgetwise's statement. I would say it is under-reported. Though a statistician extrapolates a total population estimate of infection rates, I would still say they are conservative and it is under-reported.
I am guessing, but I say there is a extremely large portion of the female population that does not have yearly pap smears.

If I were female, the idea of having radioactive pellets implanted in my cervix would not appeal to me.
As a male I would rather not have any foreskin removed.

Is your insurance co-pay or the states $14.80 administation fee too much to pay to protect the future health of your child?
Protect your child for the future.
Be wise, Immunize.
My hope is that this vaccine will be approved and licensed for the male population soon.

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letsgetwise 7 years, 2 months ago

Just couldn't resist--Pywacket, your reply to avoice, "...I'm just pointing out we owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves and not take everything a practicing (rather than research) physician says as gospel."

So...because you believe whomever you are trusting to have studied whatever they studied and researched to be truthful and correct, your conclusion is correct. Because avoice chose to believe her physician knew what they were talking about (even though it didn't quite line up with your conclusion) it makes her wrong. So...what you're saying is we can only believe what the CDC and whoever else you believe is right?

I'm not saying the statistics the CDC have are incorrect, although they're only as accurate as the reporting is, but I am saying this vaccine should be at the family's discretion. You're right, I should study up on this, and make the decision for myself and my children.

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kg52 7 years, 2 months ago

I feel it is a good idea but I thought the "required" immunizations were for community acquired illness, not what you might get by performing a certain action. If I had a teenage daughter I cerainly would strongly consider it as a preventive measure but should it be required , no. Now a vaccine that would prevent all cancer, wouldn't that be lovely!

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

avoice~ Where'd your doc go to school? She ever read any statistics and studies or does she just answer questions off the top of her head, assuming she remembers correctly from med school? I'm not being pugnacious--I'm just pointing out that we owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves and not take everything a practicing (rather than research) physician says as gospel. They mean well, but... a lot of them are woefully behind (or forgetful) when it comes to research.

In any event--according to the CDC, cervical cancer is so common that it was once the leading cause of cancer death in women. Thanks to Pap testing, that death rate has declined significantly. Many times, precancerous tissue is detected by the Pap test and removed before it becomes cancerous.

Furthermore, avoice, HPV is extremely common in the US. It is thought that about 80% of women 50 and over have this infection. Most never experience any symptoms. But if you're one of the unlucky ones who gets cancer out of the blue from it, you'll wish there had been a vaccine when you were young enough for it to matter.

As for your comment that HPV is "not an easily transferred infection," and not being able to get it from "gym towels," give us a break!! It IS an easily transmitted infection and I'm amazed that anyone would suggest "gym towels" as a measure of how easy it is to acquire ANY STD.

People get STDs from s-e-x. Do you know what STD stands for? Sexually Transmitted Diseases. And teens (sitting down?) have s-e-x. Whether their parents think they do or not.

Maybe next week, we'll have a discussion on TTDs--Towelly transmitted diseases. I'm sure Trey & Matt will want to weigh in on that discussion.

Until then, pls do your research before throwing out wild comments. http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm#Whatis is a good place to start.

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denak 7 years, 2 months ago

I am all for this vaccine being required.

First, the reason this vaccination is required at such a young age is that once a person gets the disease, the vaccination doesn't work. So, by the time the first pap comes back "abnormal" it is already to late.

The only reason people have a problem with this shot is because they are hung up on it being a "cervical" cancer vaccine. If this were a bladder cancer vaccine or a stomach cancer vaccine there wouldn't be this outcry. People need to get over thier erroneous notions of what "good girls" do and don't do. (And boys but we all know there is a double standard)

Also, HPV is one of the most common diseases in the U.S. According to the CDC, more than 80% of women will have HPV by the time they are 50. Over 20 million people have the disease and over 50% of sexually active individuals will acquire genital HPV sometime during their life. Each year, 6.2 million people get a new genital HPV infection.

However, for most women, HPV becomes undetectable within two years. However, a woman, during that time, is at an increase risk of developing pre-cancerous or cancerous cells.

WHY risk it. Get the shot. If people are soooooooo scared that getting one little shot is going to make people promiscious, (which is nonsense) why don't we just do away with the Pap smear. The HPV vaccine is nothing more or nothing less than a prevention tool. It does't mark a woman/girl as a "fallen woman" or anything else. If anything, it says that this woman cares enough about her life, and the life of her female child, that she is going to give that child this valuable tool.

I don't have a daughter but I have been a foster parent for almost 3 years. It would be "nice" if we all knew that children were going to grow up and stay "pure" until their wedding night, but that doesn't happen. Children aren't as innocent as we think and their childhoods certainly aren't as innocent/protected as we want them.

If, as a foster parent, I am allowed to give consent for any of my foster daughters to get the vaccine I would do it.

It doesn't mean that I don't trust them or that I think they aren't virgins(most physically aren't anyway) or that they will sleep around (some do), it means that I care enough about them and recognize that the reality is that this vacinne is needed, and that is why they should get it.

People don't know what goes on in other people's homes. (especially the so-called "good homes)

Sometimes even doctors don't know.

Making sure that all girls are protected, seems like a good enough price to pay for "government intrusion" in my life and their lives.

Dena:0)

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galfromku 7 years, 2 months ago

Thanks to Lori. She made the most sense of just about anyone. I only have a son. If I had a daughter, I'd probably have her get the shot (when WE decided to... not at the "magic" age of 12 along with her counterparts. Still others might not want their daughter to have it at all. The law should not regulate this sort of thing..... especially because it takes two to tango. Lets get a shot for the guys!

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

And don't forget Kansan of the Year nominee, Kirstie Alley.

I watched the video all the way through. Did not make me crave slyders.

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conceptual_continuity 7 years, 2 months ago

i_p sayeth ..

White Castle & Pizza Hut, didn't they both start out in Wichita?

===================================

Yep, the same little crudhole that gave us Spangles and those beautiful commercials .. and joe walsh .. and barry sanders .. and .. .ugh ... dave armstrong .. yuck phooey

p.s. you can pick up White Castle in the freezer section of SuperTarget or Sam's Club

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

Attributed to one group yet applicable to many :)

Friday, Friday, Friday . . . payday, payday, payday . . . it's all good!!

All y'all have a great weekend!!

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innocuous_posts 7 years, 2 months ago

White Castle & Pizza Hut, didn't they both start out in Wichita?

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JoRight 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB I cant believe I watched the whole slider video. And what is up with the grand prize of only $500? Fastest griddle should get more I would think.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal,

Bad to the bone!!????

That theory is attributed to George Thorogood & The Delaware Destroyers?

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 2 months ago

No better marketing than selling a eensy weensy hamburger to the public and then plugging it full of holes, to boot!

Ceal, don't let RI get you riled...he's a word snob and someday, he'll have the T-shirt to prove it. (You would look fab in black stiletto boots, BTW! Maybe the X wasn't completely dumb...);)

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

R_I - It's the Slut Gene. And depending on which you way swing, you would credit Nature, God, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Never have had a WC slider. They do not sound appealing.

I always thought sliders were those soft, moist, slippery, raw things. I have heard, if "that" gene is present, the consumption of THESE sliders, leads to indiscretions.

when citing this theory I do not know who to credit. . . "If you can get a woman to eat a raw oyster, you can get her to do anything!"

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avoice 7 years, 2 months ago

The group of vaccines that are required for admittance to public school are in place because they help prevent the pandemic spread of volatile and easily transferred infections.

In the case of HPV, this is not an easily transferred infection, if I understand it correctly. Sexual contact is required (i.e., you can't get it from a towel at gym class). Also, as recently as a year ago when I was having "female" troubles and wondering what could be the cause, my ob/gyn informed me that cervical cancer is one of the least common.

Now, while I may feel quite compelled to make sure my own daughter receives this vaccine, I cannot support its inclusion as one that is required for admission to public school. The only scenario in which a widespread outbreak could occur (I believe) would be one in which large numbers of students were engaging in extremely loose sexual activity. If that's a real possibility, then I'd rather take my children out of public school in the first place, negating the debate over what vaccines they would need to have!

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

Sgt~ It's funny--I never heard of White Castle until I was probably in my teens. There were none in my home town (that I know of), even though it is a pretty good-sized place. I can't remember where i had my first one... K'zoo? Marshall? but they certainly are distinctive.

There might have been a couple around here when I first moved here (or maybe just on the MO side of KC) but, yes--they're gone from KS now. Except in the grocery stores--oddly, you can buy big ol' boxes of them from the freezer section.

I can't imagine who buys them frozen and heats them at home. (Dear fellow posters~ if YOU heat & eat sliders at home, please do not tell--that's just TMI and would ruin whatever dubiously positive impression I might have of you.)

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innocuous_posts 7 years, 2 months ago

"Posted by jonas (anonymous) on January 26, 2007 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal) Well, it was red, and I took it. Now my eyes hurt, like I've never used them before."

jonas, don't do the sequels, for the love of pancakes, don't do the sequels.

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

I can't stand it! I just can't stand it!! I rest my case.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal, Just one of those quirky random thoughts.... Contrast and compare the word you looked up with the following word...

"stud".

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

RI, just looked up "slut" in the dictionary, didn't say nuthin bout no boots!!! Besides all that, he bought the boots :D

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awayinwashington 7 years, 2 months ago

I am unsure if it should be required, but to those that believe that this vaccine will promote promiscuity: That is ridiculous. Obvioiusly teens, young adults, and (shocker!) adults are having sex and passing this STD around. Getting the vaccine is highly unlikely to "encourage" teens to have more sex--they are already having sex, and this could make it safer and prevent a LOT of cancer. (come one, who doesn't want to prevent cancer?) : )

Few people realize the risks of HPV or understand it, and a lot of my peers don't even know it exists. Hopefully the availability of the vaccine will spread awareness.

Also, many of you might appreciate this button I received for Christmas, stating: "Condoms don't promote sex, they prevent mucus membranes from touching fluids. DUH!"

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 2 months ago

"most mandated vaccines for children are ones that prevent easily transferable diseases such as airborne pathogens"

I checked some common school-required vaccines, and you are right on a few: Haemophilus influenzae type b -- through airborne mucus particles Dyphtheria -- through direct contact or airborne saliva/ mucus Pertussus -- through direct contact or airborne saliva/ mucus Rubella -- through saliva droplets Varicella -- generally through airborne mucus particles *Mumps -- through saliva droplets or items contaminated by saliva

but these are also common for school kids...

Tetanus -- through soil, dust and animal feces, transmitted through deep flesh wounds Polio -- "fecal-oral route" often through eating or drinking substances contaminated with fecal matter *Hepatitis B -- through bodily fluids-- sex, re-use of contaminated needles or syringes, from mother to child during childbirth

And as far as saliva/mucus transmissions, those are very often on bodily and non-bodily surfaces and passed directly rather than through the air. Ever loaned someone a pen/pencil at school and caught them putting it in their mouth?

(I'm not for or against, just looking for more info.)

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 2 months ago

Py, as I'm sure you know, White Castle is thriving in Michigan (Ann Arbor has a location, though it's essentially Ypsilanti; Detroit has 11). We do still call them sliders, too. I can't explain why Michigan supports White Castles, but I'm not sure it makes it a better state.

I was amused to learn that while White Castle was founded in Kansas, the headquarters were moved to Columbus and there are no longer any locations in Kansas.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal,

"RI, if they were it came from their father :P"

Are you sure?

"Sorry, RI. I prefer black leather stiletto boots." - Ceal - Aug 1, 06

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal, et al,

If this is too long or dry of post... well, I will not appologize.

Concerning the safety of the HPV vaccine. It is safe. The HPV vaccine is composed of snippets of sequenced HPV coat proteins. The HPV vaccine provides the human body an antigen specific to the "real" HPV virus. The body reconizes the coat proteins as foreign, and ideally provides an immune response. This size of this response is tempered by the quantity of antigens. The body has an immunological memory for the "key" that fits the virus protein coat. This "key" allows our bodies "hunter/killer" cells to do their work, defeating the viral incursion.

It is not a live, but weakened virus like rabies, polio, measles, rubella, and mumps vaccines. It is not the actual virus that has be killed or made inactive such as flu, hepatitus, and black death vaccines. It is not an actual virus that is basically benign, but similar in protein coat structure such as small pox vaccine.
(I am permanently marked like many my age, by the jet gun used to inject the cowpox virus. Not only by the scar, but the 3 wild hairs that grow from it.) (Remember the word vaccine came from "vacca", Latin for cow, not vacuus (empty).)

My only concerns are: A.) The lack of testing and approval on male population. B.) Efficacy of the vaccine. C.) Length of time before boosters are required after the three intial doses.

If I posted incorrect information in this post, I will appologize to only one person... Dr. Lawrence Draper Ph.D. "the guy who put the fun in immunology"

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Jackalope 7 years, 2 months ago

The Rubicon was a small river which was considered a boundary of Rome. Generals were not to bring their legions into Rome. Julius Caesar ignored the custom and brought his legions into Rome as a show of force for his enemies in Rome. He violated a long standing custom and crossed the line of propriety. Crossing the Rubican is doing the unthinkable in violation of custom and propriety.

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

RI, if they were it came from their father :P

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB~ don't investigate "that matrix" too closely or you could wind up an OCD victim. ("Can't... get....clean!!! More eyewash...." rub rub rub... "STILL not clean.... Feel.... SO.... dirty.... Images burned onto retinas!!!" rub rub...)

White Castles?! eeewww... we used to call 'em sliders. Slide right in... slide right out...

I actually have a WC mug, found at a thrift store, that I use for a pencil holder. I like the nostalgia angle of White Castle. But the actual sliders? not so much.

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slappedyomomma 7 years, 2 months ago

My sister (a pediatrician) thinks this vaccine is a wonderful thing. She has been telling everyone we know to get their daughters vaccinated. One huge thing about this vaccine is that you can only get it when you are young. They don't administer it to women over 25 or 26.

I think it should probably be required. If it isn't required, then women who have had the vaccine should receive lower health insurance rates or tax credits. It would save everyone a lot of money and pain, not to mention lives.

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jonas 7 years, 2 months ago

"Posted by sharron5rs (anonymous) on January 26, 2007 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Also I have seen Children as young as 14 have this disease. The hormones are raging at this age no matter WHERE you come from."

Unless, of course, you come from somewhere that made you a eunich.

O-Bob: Who did the last minute spot surgery that saves someone's life? I would've liked to have been there for that.

That was a fun movie.

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jonas 7 years, 2 months ago

The new Zelda game has zombie pigs. COINCIDENCE?!

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

I despise Hardees. They took our White Castle away. It was in KC.

Have you seen that movie Harold and Kumar Goto White Castle? About 75% of that stuff occured to us in college. No Neil Patrick Harris on ectsasy hupping my car seat though. This is not a reccomdation of the movie.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB, Hardees? We need to get you to a White Castle. Yikes.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

'...not to let them have 30 seconds alone together."

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree apparently.

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 2 months ago

"I can't wait till Sue's girlies corrupt R_Is fine upstanding young men." -TOB

He needn't worry (so much) since mine will be inoculated. We will just have to be extra careful not to let them have 30 seconds alone together. :$

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh, I agree. It's all one big bag o' sluts.

And I'm not implying Pharm companies are Saints (like R_I's spousal unit). Life is too short for me to second guess everything. Or course, the FDA also allows Hardees to exist so maybe I should rethink my thoughts.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal, "As the mother of 3 girls, it's possible that I may be a bit on the "edgy" side when I think girls are still being singled out as the "bad" ones."

They were passed that "certain" gene?

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Das_Ubermime 7 years, 2 months ago

I wouldn't use human zombies to control feral pigs. Have you ever seen what happens to the human zombies that wander into pig farms? It ain't pretty. No, I'm afraid that the only way to control a feral pig population is to use zombie pigs.

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB, it takes a lot more than a little difference of opinion to get rid of me :P I am painfully aware of sluttery, I just believe he-sluts and she-sluts should be in one big slut category. As the mother of 3 girls, it's possible that I may be a bit on the "edgy" side when I think girls are still being singled out as the "bad" ones.

I'm still not persuaded that big business does not press new wonder drugs into distribution prematurely. But hey, we aren't all going to agree on every topic, well, not until we are in the Brave New World and agree on the value of Soma in our society :)

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 2 months ago

RI, you could paint them up and put them in dresses.?. Then you could spend the next 10 years paying for their therapy. They'd laugh about it years later.."Remember the time dad dressed us up as girls and made us get those shots?"

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

I can't wait till Sue's girlies corrupt R_Is fine upstanding young men.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

sue, As much as I would like to have my boys standing in the HPV vaccine queue with you and your "girlies"...

No.

I am sure that you will have your "girlies" inoculated long before males are allowed to be.

No health practioner would currently allow my stalwart, upstanding, untainted, unlured boys to receive the HPV vaccine along side your "girlies"

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal: "when has this board strictly adhered to the outline of any given article :)"

Wait, we're supposed to talk about something specific? Whoa. It's like a whole new world.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Was it Viagra? You know what mom said about what would make you go blind.

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jonas 7 years, 2 months ago

Well, it was red, and I took it. Now my eyes hurt, like I've never used them before.

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person_of_interest 7 years, 2 months ago

This should not be a requirement.

Strongly recommended, yes (perhaps).....required, no.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal -

The slut gene is something that is a home grown, smarty pants, quip. Yes, the kind guys say to other guys. I felt it worked perfectly in the context. You did not. Alas, can we still be friends?

And not to get on you but I disagree with the end of your second paragraph. The FDA process is strict and lengthy. If every drug had to have 100% safety then there would be no drugs at all. And when a drug hits the market it does not mean the research of the drug is done. There is still research being done on the safety of aspirin. There are several thousands of presciption drugs on the market and a handful have had issues. A lot of the issues have the prevalence of getting struck by lightning after getting lucky with (insert famous unit of desire).

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB, guess I missed the source you quoted when attributing the term "slut gene" to ultra-right wing nut jobs. As written it sounded more like a home grown, smarty pants, quip. You know, the kind guys say to other guys. Thank you for the clarification :)

LJW ask only about girls . . responses were only about girls . . it took RI and Lori to bring boys into the equation. I know the article focused on girls, but when has this board strictly adhered to the outline of any given article :) Pharmaceutical researchers are just looking for a larger test group, we should not let it be our young girls. So many drugs have been recalled in the last 5 years, after doing great harm to the patients. We cannot blindly believe that this drug has been proven safe for 10, 15 or 20 years out. They could not have been testing it that long.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal -

Addtionally, there are male sluts as well. The only difference is this is considered honorable. For whatever reason. I don't set social stereotypes, I just live in the same world as the rest of you.

Addtionally Additionally, where in that post did you infer that a sexually active female is a slut? I did not. It seems to me that you believe there is no such thing as a slut. I point you in the direction of the current crop of no-talent Hollywood nymphs and 19 year old male college athletes with 3 kids.

R_I - Thank you, kind sir. I agree with your mother.

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 2 months ago

So, RI, when I take my girlies in to get the shots, will I see you in line with your boys???

To quote a wise man: "The apple does not fall far from the tree."

Mandatory: no. Strongly suggested: yeppers! funded: probably in some capacity even if not mandatory. If mandatory, then definitely.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceal, "What counter-part to that gene do you designate for the male involved in her sluttery?"

The typical gene?

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Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceallach - that would be the male 'playa' gene.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

T_O_B, The river Styx, the Boundary between Earth and Hell, guarded by Phlegyas. Achilles was dipped in the river Styx, except where he was held by his heel.

My mother believed Styx to be the boundry to Hell also.

"Welcome to the Grand Illusion Come on in and see what's happening Pay the price, get your tickets for the show"

"You will go to hell listening to that crap" . . The Rubicon just kept the Celts out of Rome. It was still a point of no return. Some may confuse it with Hell's Boundary. I'm sure Jeep did that when naming a vehicle Rubicon. (It will get you to hell and back?)

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Ceallach -

Did you read the intent of my post? Apparently not. That was intended for the ultra-right wing nut jobs who think gals having sex are sluts and by getting the vaccine it is the OK to have sex with multiple men often and repeatedly.

I have a leftover Sarcasmomometer. Would you like to borrow it?

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh yeah, the question . . . I agree with RI and Lori.

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Ceallach 7 years, 2 months ago

OMG-TOB, SHAME ON YOU!!!

I can't believe you said "slut" gene!!!!! A sexually active female is a slut? What counter-part to that gene do you designate for the male involved in her sluttery? I could give you a few options, but I'm sure David would delete me.

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Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

If young girls are likely to be 'kissing' toads, give them the vaccine.

I think that is how you get warts, isn't it?

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Py - Excellent as in your 8:50 post. I was unaware of the Okie/Hog/Lamb sectsual relations matrix so I will investigate further before I abandon my idea.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

Py - Here here. Excellent.

R_I - I'm a bit hazy on my mythology/Roman/old crap. Do you mean Rubicon? I suppose I could look it up, but you are the wealth of knowledge that probably should not be doubted.

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

TOB sez: "Perhaps we should introduce HPV into the feral pig population."

No, no---don't want to do that! Next thing you know, there will be a terrible outbreak in Arkansas, Oklahoma, and anywhere that the level of Billy Bass ownership exceeds the literacy % in the population... Next it will spread to sheep farms... Who knows where it could end up?

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lori 7 years, 2 months ago

Sharon et al, I too work in the women's health care field, and I am against mandatory innoculation. Testing was not performed for years and years--merely a couple of years--and it was on college age girls, not preteens. It only covers four of the high risk viral subtypes, not all of them. The long-term efficacy (greater than 5 years) is unknown. Boys and men are the ones who actually spread the high risk strains, and RI is right, it causes complications in them, too, so why aren't they being innoculated?

Why not provide the funding for it, offer it cheap or free at all the clinics and offices that provide immunization, and let parents, docs and the girls make the decision? The mandatory dT booster is due around the same time, so just offer it then--it wouldn't be a convience issue involving another trip to the office, and the dT booster is required for school attendance anyhow, so all children would be offered it regardless of income or health care access.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

T_O_B, I do not favor Das' Zombie army. I am sure there are a few salt-licks out where these feral hogs reside. One of Das' zombies inadvertently ingests salt by stumbling during the requisite pig wrestling portion of feral hog evisceration. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. The river Styx has been forded.

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Pywacket 7 years, 2 months ago

YES! This will make it known to lots of folks who have not yet heard about it and who, once they know of its benefits, would gladly choose it for their daughters. Unless you require something, there are an awful lot of people out there who are too lackadaisical to learn about it.

As for the usual suspicious paranoids who think there's a vast conspiracy lurking behind every medical advance and who doggedly believe certain vaccs cause autism, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary----those types can legally opt out of all other vaccs already and still mingle their kids with ours in the public schools, so I'm sure they can get out of this one the same way. Just declare in writing that you're a member of some backward religious group and the "requirement" for vaccines magically melts away.

Next question: should parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated for "religious" reasons (aka paranoia and ignorance) lose the right to send those kids to public schools? Yes--they should have to home-school their risk-carrying brats.

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KSChick1 7 years, 2 months ago

Jonas-I'll take it and tell you if it's any good!

Maybe I'll see a hallucination like Bush pulling troops out of Iraq

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

R_I -

Perhaps we should introduce HPV into the feral pig population. Of course the H may be an issue. Or, Das' Zombie army is probably restless. He claims that he can train them. Sic 'em on the the hogs.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 2 months ago

Okay, this quote really just makes me laugh:

"If you are against the HPV vaccine, it's kind of like being against mom and apple pie," Buck said.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 2 months ago

Mandated required inoculation?... No.

Mandated funding as a recommended inoculation? Yes.

Is this vaccine safe? More so than some polio vaccines, and all small pox vaccines.

Females only? No. The 2nd leading type of neckcancer in males is caused by one of the HPV viruses. Anal and penile cancers are caused by the HPV virus. Males are involved in the spread of this virus.
This just adds to the old adage... All the trouble in the world, started with just one apple.

Will this vaccine lead to more teen promiscuity? No. That is reserved for parents to encourage.

Feral pigs can not be eradicated just by shooting the sows only from a helicopter. (A wildlife biologist told me so.)

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Das_Ubermime 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't really think that you will be able to eliminate the disease from this country (in the fashion that polio, small pox, etc. were) if the measure is 'recommended'. I could be wrong, but if I'm not, it makes this a question of whether or not we want to virtually eliminate a deadly disease.

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sharron5rs 7 years, 2 months ago

Also I have seen Children as young as 14 have this disease. The hormones are raging at this age no matter WHERE you come from.

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blue73harley 7 years, 2 months ago

Jonas - do some animal testing first.

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sharron5rs 7 years, 2 months ago

I posted this under comments in the article and thought it needed to be here also.

"What they are proposing is vaccinating a bunch of healthy girls that are responsible and that do come from good homes for the benefit of irresponsible people," said Dawn Richardson, a co-founder of Parents Requesting Open Vaccine Education.

As someone that worked in the health field. I can tell you that comming from "healthy girls that are responsible and that do come from good homes ",dosen't make a differince at all.

This disease dosent care where you come from.

You can have it for years no matter how carefull you are. It only takes one time without protection.

Having this vaccine is such a great advance against a potential dangerous disease.

If they had had it when my girls were in Jr. High they WOULD have had it whether they "needed it or not."

I have seen women from the BEST homes have this diaese. I KNOW they would rather have had the shot than to go through what they had to go through.

If you read thourghly about the diaese ypu would know that it can lay dormant for YEARS , and when you think you havent had any bad pap tests for years. Your are problem free. Wham , you have a"High Risk" result. Guess what. It's back! And you have the greater chance of having cancer than you did before.

I say YES make it a part of the requirement for young girls !!! Help save them from having to go through the PAIN and embarasment from having this terrible disease.

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jonas 7 years, 2 months ago

On a side note, I just found a pill on my floor. Should I take it?

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 2 months ago

I think this will lead teens to a more...

Oh, wait. Never mind.

I'm not a big fan of "required" inoculations. Strongly suggested, okay; required ... eh. I'm not sure about that.

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Kat Christian 7 years, 2 months ago

At first I was against it until I did a little more research on it. I think it is a good idea. There are no known serious side affects. I'm a little sketical about starting it a 12 years old - but then again I don't know the statistics of when children become sexually active these days. I hope it doesn't cause girls to think they can be more sexually active because they think they are safe from all diseases. So I hope informative education comes along with it.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 2 months ago

This vaccine would not have come to market had there not been years and years of clinical testing, animal testing, and human trials. This is a vaccine. Let us not go overboard here.

I agree with your last paragraph. Slapped around. Getting inoculated when they are babies isn't going to put the Slut gene in them.

That all being said... naturally, I'm skeptical when big gov tells me what to do. This is essentially a cancer preventing vaccine (a few steps removed). In the end, I'm for it.

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blue73harley 7 years, 2 months ago

What Jonas and the sandwich guy said.

Happy Friday!

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jonas 7 years, 2 months ago

From reading the article (shock!) before posting this, I can't say that I would agree that this should be mandated. It seems, firstly, that most mandated vaccines for children are ones that prevent easily transferable diseases such as airborne pathogens etc. (yes, I'm just throwing terms around at random, I'm not a doctor)

As some parents have noted, this is recently to the market, and if there ends up being a damaging long term side effect, then forcing innoculation would be very, very bad. While it's certainly a good advancement in health care, and parents definately should get their daughters innoculated, whether it's an STD or not, it's a mistake to push for it to be required at this early juncture.

As a side note, anyone who would say that this will lead teens to a more promiscuous lifestyle and thus should not be used shoud be slapped around a little bit.

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