Should federal taxpayer money go to support the research of stem cells taken from human embryos? / LJWorld.com

Asked at Borders, 700 N.H. on January 12, 2007

“No. I think there needs to be more research on it before it’s federally funded to find out if it’s really going to be worthwhile.”

— Brenda Mullins, special education paraeducator, Lecompton

“Yes. It just makes sense for the common good.”

— David Graham, Kansas University professor, Lawrence

“I think it should, because it could be beneficial in so many different ways.”

— Jessica King, KU sophomore, Lawrence

“Yeah. It could lead to life-saving cures for cancer and many other diseases. From what I’ve heard, the embryos that they use for the research are those that are being thrown out anyway.”

— Jared Rose, lawyer, Lawrence

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jonas 6 years, 4 months ago

Gonna go with Geekin' Topekan on this. If research is federally funded, then big pharmacueticals should not be allowed later to patent it and screw the taxpayers out of the benefits.

Gods, let us not turn this into another thread on abortion.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 4 months ago

Sure,but with the stipulation that any miracle cures it provides is given just as freely back to the taxpayers. In other words,make it a Two-way street.No drug manufacturer shall deny life saving medication to anyone for any reason.

trinity 6 years, 4 months ago

wow will it be inappropriate to start a conga line on this thread???

i like geekin's response&agree. well said, geekin.

and jonas-"Gods, let us not turn this into another thread on abortion." hah, in your dreams baby! ;)

Harry_Manback 6 years, 4 months ago

Yes, I think so.

I don't understand why people are opposed to stem cell research. Abortions will happen regardless of legality, and at least using stem cells makes some use of what would be deemed in pro-lifers' eyes as a "senseless death." The tissue from the fetus will be destroyed otherwise, might as well use it to save a life.

Ohyasee 6 years, 4 months ago

Yes it needs to pass, I am 100% for it. I think maybe reasoning is going against it because the impack it will have on so many. We have only been able to treat to supress, never to cure. Why start now.....

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 6 years, 4 months ago

Stem cells are also found in amniotic fluid. We all know this fluid just goes to waste and ruin.

One minute you have a brand new leather office chair, the next minute your spousal unit has baptised it, and it is forever... well...forever changed. It gets soaked up by the multiple towels you have carefully lined your vehicle with to protect its interior, but this torques your spousal units maturnity shorts. ("there are like 9 layers of towels here... your a equine posterior") It puddles on your new hardwood floor, as you struggle to clean it up, your spousal unit chides you for not "getting going".

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

Das, I don't think private research would be insufficient if the government were a shadow of its current self, financially speaking. Research may be structured with government funding in mind, but it doesn't need to be that way, and I'm not so sure it would suffer if it restructured itself without government funding ... if the government seriously downsized.

If that government money just went elsewhere within government spending, then yes, there would be a problem.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

Maybe the government should spend less in general. So no.

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 6 years, 4 months ago

Yes. It should be internationally, and galatically funded also.

Bone777 6 years, 4 months ago

Heck yes, but since I don't have any say in the many frivilous ways the government spends money, I don't figure I'll have any say in this either, so.....

Just give the money to the homeless.

Whatever_the_Second 6 years, 4 months ago

Why kill babies when so much has already been done with adult stem cells...

http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/asc-refs.pdf

Then there is the blood from the umbilical cord.

Bone777 6 years, 4 months ago

I just thought of something.....

If we could get the homeless to research stem cells.

Two birds with one stone. I like it!

ronwell_dobbs 6 years, 4 months ago

In the highly scientific poll at the top of this page, 75% say 'Yeah' and 25% say 'Nay'. Could it be what we call the "Lecompton Effect"?

/physics pun

ksmoderate 6 years, 4 months ago

Whatever the second,

Embryonic Stem Cell Research is not killing babies. And, the gov't. is only considering funding for those embryos that are scheduled for destruction by fertility clinics. Why incinerate an embryo without using it for research first?

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

Incidentally, das, I should probably note that I'm not saying we should cut state universities. (I know they are a source of a great deal of research -- I live near the U of Michigan, and they like to note their accomplishments.)

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

I know it's gotta come from somewhere -- I just think it would go beyond profit-seeking (which I do not say in a completely negative way) industry.

Of course, I do vary wildly between cynicism and idealism, and I think we know where this one goes.

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

Well the Secretary of the Irrelevant says,

friday-friday-friDAY! friday-friday-friDAY!

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 6 years, 4 months ago

sgt,

"I do vary wildly between cynicism and idealism" You think?

Should you be included in Bea's "reversable" club too?

I will take mine hunter orange one side, real tree camo the other.

Welcome to the club sgt.

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

Hey Katie Horner, what's up with this weather? Are we gonna die?

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

Gods, let us not turn this into another thread on inferior nanobot zombies.

Well, the secretary of the department of redundancy department also says friday-friday-friDAY!

Yes on stem-cell research. It will lead to a truly reliable zombie army.

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 6 years, 4 months ago

Bea,

Are you going to induct sgt into the reversible club?

Pywacket 6 years, 4 months ago

YES.

Hey--be careful out there; it's already slick.

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

RI, I have no idea what you are talking about. However, I certainly wouldn't exclude sgtw from any club.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

For once, I will join the friday-friday-friDAY line, because after last week's Saturday workday, I'm back to a normal actual happy Friday.

Agnostick 6 years, 4 months ago

REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES, INC. 456 Springfield Avenue Anytown, USA 12345-6789

INVITRO FERTILIZATION (IVF) UNIT ZYGOTE RELEASE AND CONSENT FORM

"The IVF process almost always results in a number of fertilized eggs that will not be implanted in the woman's uterus. Knowing this, what would you like done with these extra embryos? (Check one)"

__ Please humanely destroy them

__ Please donate them to a stem cell research facility

__ We would like to discuss the cryogenic preservation process, for future use.

__ We would like to discuss donating them to another infertile couple

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

No, Federal money should not be used. Gates, Buffett and Soros should pony up the money.

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

I have a new venture that I would like to explore, I do not know if it will work, and it might actually do harm, but the hope is there. Problem is, no private investor will take a chance on me.

I know, I will get Congress to provide taxpayer money to fund my idea, to the tune of millions and millions of dollars. I will do it by playing on peoples' emotions, promising that I am going to solve their problems, and that, if I do not get the money, they will suffer into eternity.

And I will operate as a not-for-profit organization so I don't have to pay real estate taxes, or tax on profit (if it every develops) and I will pay me and my staff reallly, really, big salaries because I can. After all, the Feds are giving me the money with absolutely no accountability or oversight.

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

Godot, I believe you just described the war in Iraq.

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

Bea, I think he would have said "billions of dollars" if he meant the Iraq Attack.

galfromku 6 years, 4 months ago

Posted by Whatever_the_Second (anonymous) on January 12, 2007 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why kill babies when so much has already been done with adult stem cells...Then there is the blood from the umbilical cord.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX This question is NOT about babies, abortion or ethics. It says,

"Should federal taxpayer money go to support the research of stem cells taken from human embryos?"

It could be adult human cells they use or cord blood. Don't try to make this into an anti abortion issue. It is just asking if govt. money should be used for research.

I agree that if the Govt. pays for the research, it would not be fair for the pharmaceutical lords to reap the benefits!

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

No, Beatrice, go beat that horse on another thread.

JoRight 6 years, 4 months ago

To put subjective reasoning aside, federal funding in R&D in anything (whether it be electronics, cars, superman's kryptonite) will get the U.S. ahead of the pack. I see biotech as a wave of the future and if the U.S. wants to lead the pack, the federal funding will be necessary.

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

Stem cell treatment on my daddy may have enabled him to be with me longer. I'm for it. Using federal money though? If that keeps it available for the common folks, absolutely. I don't know.

sunflower_sue 6 years, 4 months ago

I'm all for stem cell research and federal funding is okie dokie with me.

Has the freezing rain come? Still grogeous here in Bangalore. I can so see why ExPat would want to come here. Maybe I'll run into her/him at the spa.

jonas 6 years, 4 months ago

Bea: Zing! +1 for style

trinity 6 years, 4 months ago

where IS katie horner when ya need her???? yikes, it's icing like mad here in beautiful miami county kansas!

friday friday friDAY friday friday friDAY!!! :)

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

Bea, no horse beating, you hear?

Ok in Lawrence. It is winter in Kansas, afer all.

deec 6 years, 4 months ago

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

Does this new bill include the same amount of funding for amiotic stem cell research?

sgtwolverine 6 years, 4 months ago

I think I was visualizing Iraq Attack! as some sort of old-school video game. Maybe not Commodore 64 old, but somewhere between SNES and N64, with a version for the PC.

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

Can I beat a zombie horse? Lord knows I wouldn't want to ride one.

ms_canada 6 years, 4 months ago

Stem cell question, yes. Aside from that, what think ye all of the obscene $250 mil package offered to, orrrrrr was it demanded by Beckham? Thoughts.

jen82 6 years, 4 months ago

Adult stem cells have only produced 9 FDA approved cures, they are less flexible, and more likely to contain toxins or genetic defects. ES cells hold much more promise - we just need the money and time (Adult stem cells were discovered in the 60s and have $2.24billion in federal funds, ES cells discovered in 1998 and have $55million in federal funds) for research. ES cells can become any tissue in the body, while adult stem cells cannot. Amniotic stem cells could only be used on that child, or related family members, with the risk of rejection similar to organ donation. In addition, amniotic stem cells are still already partly specialized. The major point is, however, that we should continue to work on ALL 3 types, and not abandon any particular one.

Finally, the federal government funds all kinds of research already that you just don't hear about, but you would probably recognize the drugs. Many ridiculously priced treatments are the result of NIH funds. While it would be nice (and I think it should happen for most things) to have free access to these treatments, the discoveries made with NIH (government funds) are almost always handed over to private pharmaceutical companies. This is not only a stem cell issue. Bottom line is that the results of all federally funded research should be easily and affordably (or freely) available to taxpayers.

Those are the facts.

-jen. (research scientist w/KC not-for-profit)

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

KATIE HORNER WHERE ARE YOU???? Getting your hair done for the weather marathon this weekend?

Speak up! Are we gonna die?

Bone777 6 years, 4 months ago

person_of_interest -

That sounds good to me, but I think the yield of viable cells per participant could be in the single digits.

You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh...........

ms_canada 6 years, 4 months ago

Das_U - well then that does not sound so bad, if others will benefit. I was just thinking about the Dems call for a raise is the minimum wage and wondering what kind of a fight would be seen there. In light of that, I call $50 mil a year obscene. But then, one must think of all the people that would benefit when those millions are spent in restaurants, nightclubs and clothing stores etc. Eh? as we Canucks are wont to say. :o)

RETICENT_IRREVERENT 6 years, 4 months ago

Semi-quiet posting day for a "hot" topic.

I can only attribute this quietness to the "cyber smootching" posts on the OTS last night.

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

R_I, you spoketh too thoon.

Gootsie 6 years, 4 months ago

Maybe we can get Gary Lezak to post here. Katie obviously is waaaaay too busy.

boldaq 6 years, 4 months ago

So far, there have been 0 cures found from embryonic stem cell research. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. In fact, there have been so few results from embryonic stem cell research that money from private investors is diminishing. That is because embryonic stem cell research is the worst investment ever made.

Adult stem cell research has had the opposite impact. It has cured patients with 72 different diseases so far! In fact, the British Medical Journal said last year that "the need for fetal cells as a source of stem cells for medical research may soon be eclipsed by the more readily available and less controversial adult stem cells."

Among the diseases cured by ADCR are:

Brain Cancer Retinoblastoma Ovarian Cancer Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma Testicular Cancer Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma Hodgkin's Lymphoma Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia Multiple Myeloma Myelodysplasia Breast Cancer Neuroblastoma Renal Cell Carcinoma Various Solid Tumors Soft Tissue Sarcoma Ewing's Sarcoma

Myelofibrosis Auto-Immune Diseases Cardiovascular Acute Heart Damage Chronic Coronary Artery Disease Ocular Corneal regeneration Immunodeficiencies Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome Parkinson's Disease Spinal Cord Injury Stroke Damage Anemias and Other Blood Conditions Osteopetrosis Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy Liver Disease Chronic Liver Failure Liver Cirrhosis Bladder Disease Wounds and Injuries

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

But, Boldaq, the problem is that there are public institutions and individuals of great power who have a major investment in EMBRYONIC stem cell research who stand to suffer a major economic setback if information like yours sees the light of day.....

JayCat_67 6 years, 4 months ago

Maybe Katie's gettin' busy making another little Horner ;-)

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 4 months ago

"But, Boldaq, the problem is that there are public institutions and individuals of great power who have a major investment in EMBRYONIC stem cell research who stand to suffer a major economic setback if information like yours sees the light of day....."

Godot, this is good-sounding populist paranoid rant often seen from those on the left.

You are incorrect, however. The "major investment" in embryonic stem cell research was consolidated at the University of Wisconsin when Bush banned the creation of any new lines, and only those generated at UW could be used (for a tidy fee, of course).

So, you have almost exactly backwards. Bush and his buddy Tommy Thompson from WI cut a deal to create a ES cell monnopoly.

Tommy Thompson was Secretary of Health and Human Services at the time.

HHS oversees National Institutes of Health, from where the vast majority of biomedical research money emanates.

Dang, Godot, that pesky reality again, biting you in the arse...

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 4 months ago

Godot,

We have some unfinished business. I would like to know your answer to the query I posted a week or so ago:

"Godot, your answer to my second question is interesting. Lets discuss it.

I asked if a woman should be forced to give birth even if it might kill her.

Your response was " No, and no pro-lifer suggests that."

Interesting. So, in your mind (the pro-life mind), the life of the mother is more important to preserve than the life of the fetus? Why do you believe this? Why is it not a draw?"

budwhysir 6 years, 4 months ago

Hello all, it is good to be back in my chair, pondering the wonderfull facts brought to us by this excellent political pounding forum

Federal funding???? I believe that would be an account comprised of our federal tax dollars. So, I suggest we use our federal tax dollars to take care of each problem one by one

boldaq 6 years, 4 months ago

Step right up, suckers, get 'em while they're hot & cheap. On the NASDAQ -

STEM - CM:ASTM - GM:GERN

If you really believe ECR isn't a scam, put your money where your mouth is.

moralebooster 6 years, 4 months ago

I think we should spend the money on plastic surgery to make this a nation of beautiful people.

I can see it now, other countries will be so jealous, that their suicide bombers will explode from envy.

H_Lecter 6 years, 4 months ago

I don't know if federal funding is needed (I'm thinking Nabisco), I'm betting they'd be better than caviar on the right cracker.

merrill 6 years, 4 months ago

This is a Bush way to avoid funding a practice with huge positive potential aka terrorist funding(Bush should look into a mirror):

As for the real costs of the war, they could hardly be clearer. Targeted for cutbacks in federal money are virtually all social programs--Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps, housing, job training and child care, education and student loans, environmental protection, public transportation, science research, even veterans' benefits and school funding for children of military personnel.

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

logicsound wrote: "As far as private investment in embryonic stems cells--how ready do you think investors are going to be to fork over cash for an industry that has been, in some capacity, banned by the government? "

What a completely Sorositian thing to say.

LOL!!!! You have morphed the definition of "ban" to a new low. Not providing federal funding for a "business" does not constitute a ban.

Your buddy George won't spend the money to invest in embryonic stem cell research because he knows it is a losing proposition. He wants the taxpayers to fund the research, and then, if, and I repeat, IF, anything comes of it, he will piggy back off the taxpayer funded research to bankroll another Soros enterprise.

Godot 6 years, 4 months ago

Bush bought a little time by limiting federal funding of reserach on embryos to a few lines of embryos....enough time for other sources of stem cells, those that to do not require the destruction of human life, to come to fruition.

Good for Bush.

boldaq 6 years, 4 months ago

"I guarantee that as soon as the creation of new embryonic stem cell lines is permitted, the flow of private money will resume and likely yield great results." - log04

If you can guarantee it, shouldn't you be putting your money where your mouth is while they're cheap? STEM - CM:ASTM - GM:GERN

"There is currently a federal BAN on the creation of new embryonic stem cell lines for research." - log04

The only limits in question are on federal funding of new embryonic stem cell lines, requiring the sacrifice of new embryos. Private and state-funded research (California voters are spending six billion dollars borrowing money to fund this) is ongoing. The implicit claim that research based on new embryos is "the most promising" is absurd, completely unsupported by the scientific literature, and an insult to voters, based as it is on the assumption that they are incapable of understanding the issue. Too stupid to tell the difference, is the elitist assumption underlying this campaign.

Adult Stem Cells: 72, Embryonic Stem Cells: 0 - UPDATED

That's the number of successful applications research has identified for the medical uses of Adult Stem Cells vs Embryonic Stem Cells.