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What do you think about the proposed increase of U.S. troops in Iraq?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 11, 2007

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Photo of Jim Rajchel

“I haven’t heard a lot about the whole plan. I’ve heard about the 21,500 troops, but I would like to know more about it.”

Photo of Thea Perry

“The president hasn’t done a single thing right so far, and I don’t think he’s going to start now. I think the whole situation is a travesty. I’m embarrassed and horrified. I feel like I have to apologize when I talk to my family overseas.”

Photo of Victoria Downey

“I feel like the Democrats should be able to shoot that down, but I’m not sure that is possible at this point in time.”

Photo of Jason Brock

“I don’t agree with it at all. I know they said it’s going to get the job done faster, but if that’s the case then they should have done it earlier. I think it’s a horrible solution.”

Comments

Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

crossfire--you could be right......god i hope we're not that bad.

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Crossfire 7 years, 3 months ago

I think this whole thing is a political move with Bush hoping that the Congress and House will vote not to send more troops and thus making it possible to blame the failure which is inevitable on the new Democrats. As always it is a dishonest move to shift blame to someone else.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

Shadower--would you be the DD? You know how to drive, don't you?

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

of course I will budwhysir! We'll need a designated driver!

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

TOB-I'll crack a bottle of Makers Mark with you----the best!

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budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

RT

what do you think is the biggest distraction?, I think we all know that there will always be some type of conflict going on somewhere in the world, it seems that the US is either helping out or involved in some way. It is good to help but we must also keep an eye on the needs of our people

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

Iraq is one big "what if"..........then, now and in the future.......we are the most envied and most hated nation on the globe.....what does that tell you?

Iraq and Bush are a distraction, as hard as it is to accept, it is.......we have to get ahead of this whole thing. What else lies ahead?

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budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

TO BOB:

By all means please do not learn how to spell, imagine how I would feel being the only one left in that catagory.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

Another good thing for this country would be for people like me to learn how to spell.

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budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

RT:

If you read the answers by the pictures, one person talks about Bush and the other mentions the Democrats, I was meaning that many people get caught up in arguing political view points as opposed to supporting our troops.

War is never good, but its about doing what is right, not about waging political battles.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

R_T -

Hey. Please don't throw me in with the Democrats. I really feel strongly that the best thing for our country would be for the displacement, disembowleing, distruction, disbandment, disetc... of both Republicans and Democrats. Ahh, that'd be worth a discussion over a bottle of Maker's Mark, eh?

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budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

RT: I know you support them, I was just throwing out an answer to the question and I see that alot of the politicians dont get the real picture like you and I do.

Keep up the good posts, in no way did I disagree with what you posted.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

Me too, ms canada.....although, through some pain and suffering---we will prevail, don't you think?

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

I get very frustrated with the type of enemy we fight......I'm 45 with a wife and two boys....I want a good future for all of us.

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ms_canada 7 years, 3 months ago

I am with you r_t - I don't see a good end. I have a terrible feeling of foreboding. I am just plain scared of the future.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

budwhysir, I did not mean to imply otherwise, I'm from a military family and I 150% respect and support our troops.

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budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

Political disagreements have no bond with supporting our troops. Agree or not I respect the men and ladies that defend our country.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

TOB, no sht, my bestest freind is a Bush disliking leftie....we just get shtty together frequently---known him for 20 yrs............and we talk about much more perverted stuff than GWB and politics.....too much to discuss to waste time on politics.

I'm not your standard conservative. I know I get wound up.......but let's see what happens---I don't see a good end, but we'll figure it out one way or another, right?

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laughingatallofu 7 years, 3 months ago

I just had a great idea:

Dick Cheney is gud with guns. Let's send his cold little myocardium over to Iraq. With his shooting prowess, we'd be out of Iraq in a week, if fer no other reason than our troops would be running for their lives!

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

"Time for a bourbon and some fresh air. " R_T

You know what? You and I could probably get along real well. We'd probably get drunk and shout at each other, but oh well I imagine it would be a fun conversation.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm no wacko fan of GWB, although I think he is doing what HE thinks it right. I think he is stubborn and cocky. I truly believe he wants to stamp out wacked terrorists....whatever.

I'm going to MX next month---I go nuts down there, surprised I'm not in a MX jail....it's a different world in the off-the-beatin'-path coastal towns. I don't go to church, but believe. Heaven and hell--although I've referenced it, please---heaven and hell? not buying in. I party hard in MX---lifes too short. Just gotta dive when your system clears.

The hatred toward Bush bothers me....there are times I say "You f*** idiot too" , but even with Clinton, you know the guy is a a winner---and I'm over it mostly, except for a defensive tactic. Overall, the situation with our country is OK, but I feel a sense of dread for some reason.

Time for a bourbon and some fresh air. Every one on this forum are good people, cause we care enough to do what we do--challenge and confront issues.

I'm listening to "Summertime" by Janis right now----great blues.

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Das_Ubermime 7 years, 3 months ago

I dunno, bea. I don't know what it is, but something tells me that the last thing I want to know about is r-t doing a "noodle dance".

r-t, "I could party any of your asses under the table"

The Ubermime may have an Uberfrau and Ubertochter, but that doesn't mean he can't drink massive amounts of alcohol while pulling an all-nighter. He just does it very quietly (though with larger hand jestures as the night progresses).

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werekoala 7 years, 3 months ago

Unlike sibkiss, I've done some research: Here are homicide rates per year, both per 100,000 people and total, from the USDOJ:

2000 5.5 15,586 2001 5.6 16,039 2002 5.6 16,229 2003 5.7 16,582 2004 5.5 16,137 Source:http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

Also from that same data, for the period 1974-2004, 45.9% of murderers were white, and 52.1% were black. So it seems to me that it's highly unlikely that over half of all homicides in 2006 were commited by illegal immigrants, when historically, slightly more than half of the murderors were black, and there just aren't all that many illegal immigrant who are black.

Then again, a quick google will show that the source of sibkiss' xenophobic stupidity is WorldNet Daily, a trashy right-wing rag that makes Drudge and that gay prostitute in the White House look like reputable sources.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

rt, good point, and your argument verges on being a criticism of the Bush administration. I'm impressed. Keep going down that path, and next think you know you will be doing the noodle dance at the Wak Fest.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

Heck, laughing, shes' constantly on FNC (the top rated news channel).......I could probably get one for you....I'll give you her book at least, if you want it let me know and I'll leave it at the front desk at LJW.

You guys have me all wrong.....not a CCF and I could party any of your asses under the table......conservative doesn't mean some RR sexually repressed freak.

I think Ann Coulter is from outer space but I like her.

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lefthanded 7 years, 3 months ago

Nuke it, throw in some gas pumps and call it done. Same goes for those other trouble-making countries.

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laughingatallofu 7 years, 3 months ago

Come to think of it, I haven't seen much of Ann Coulter lately, either. Right_thinker, do you think you can scrounge up her autograph for me?

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

sibkiss: those are some pretty hefty numbers you are throwing out. 9000 in 2006 alone! Care to indicate the source, because I am dubious of a claim of 24.5 people being killed every day in the U.S. by illegals. That would be 180 dead per state, if evenly distributed. Somehow, I doubt Hawaii sees as many deaths as, oh, say Arizona where I live. I don't read of someone being killed every day by illegals. This isn't to say that the problem of illegals isn't a problem. It is! Just not a 9000 U.S. citizens killed a year problem.

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laughingatallofu 7 years, 3 months ago

Has anyone seen Dick Cheney lately? Or is he at an undisclosed secure location. I wonder if that location gets Fox News....

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sibkiss 7 years, 3 months ago

Lets look at the numbers, 3000+ killed in Iraq (US military)- a shame and a great loss of life. What would they have become? And so many are crippled, and thats just US citizens, not counting the 100,000's of Iraqis dead since the war began. How many US citizens were killed by illegal aliens in California alone last year? 3000 more?

And In one year alone, 2006, over 9,000 US citizens were killed on US soil, by illegal aliens.

Over 28,000 since 9/11 have been killed right here by illegal aliens. Some killed by people from from countries, but the big majority of killers -95%(not to mention drunk driving accidental killings additionally, rapes, ID theft, gang violence) are from Mexico.

Why don't we put 20000+ military on our US/Mexico border to stop them from killing us here at home? Aren't we just as important as Iraqis? Aren't civilians just as important as military?

I am a vet, and I would gladly defend the US from this deadly costly illegal alien invasion.

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Das_Ubermime 7 years, 3 months ago

It's all about the zombies. If y'all had supported my zombie death legion earlier, this wouldn't be an issue. Just remember, zombies save U.S. lives. Not to mention, have you ever hear of a zombie death legion costing $100 billion? I don't think so.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

You know, the "trouble makers" in Iraq (and elsewhere) are not too smart---no surprise. If they were smart, in the face of America spilling it's guts, that "this is the last hoo-rah" so to speak, they otta disappear for a while, make it seem like we've won. Great right? Probably.

Al-Sadr and the rest of these wonderful Arab power-grabbers should lay low, we leave, then they go over the top nuts and create havoc like has never been seen.

Then the rest is simple---we let them kill each other off for a year or so and when the time is right, we go so medeival on their asses they don't know what hit 'em.

Simple simon.....but people are not smart and hatred clouds the judgement.

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couranna1 7 years, 3 months ago

Wow 21500 more can die in this immoral illegal war IT NEEDS TO STOP NOW

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 3 months ago

Meanwhile Robert Gates and Condi Rice are suggesting 500,000 troops in Iraq over time on NPR news this AM. If USA and British take majority control of Iraq oil troops will never be out of there = high dollar gasoline. 21,500 new troops= $100,000,000,000(billion). Also means putting a lot of military families through hell. How about spending money on alternative energy and fuel efficient automobiles instead of getting people killed?

CAIRO, Egypt (Reuters) -- U.S. President George W. Bush's plan to send 21,500 more troops will fail to bring peace to Iraq and could aggravate a conflict in which tens of thousands of people have already died, Arab analysts said on Thursday.

Bush, taking advice mainly from a small group of ideologues, has misunderstood the nature of the conflict and is wrong to think that a military solution is possible, they added.

A few analysts in the Gulf, where the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 was less unpopular than in the rest of the Arab world, said more troops might help, but it could also be too late.

Bush's plan, announced early on Thursday in the Middle East, overlooks or rejects policy options which the analysts said were essential -- dialogue with Iran and Syria, and a determined U.S. effort to tackle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"America is no longer in the driving seat. It has lost Iraq and adding a few thousands troops is not going to help because the situation is beyond fixing," said Abdel-Khaleq Abdullah, a political scientist in the United Arab Emirates.

Read the rest:

http://robots.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/11/bush.iraq.world.reut/index.html

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ms_canada 7 years, 3 months ago

Thunderbuns - so do you propose a raid into Iran? Are you going to enlist and go over there? How much more taxes do you want to pay for more forces? Do you honestly think that the US is the police force of the world?

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Das_Ubermime 7 years, 3 months ago

Wow, my internet goes down when its all zombie-this and zombie-that, then I come back and people are trying to have serious discussions and the like on the OTS! The "BIG! OTS"!!! Well I'm not going to stand for that sort of shenanigans GOSH DARNNIT! Ooooh... Sun Chips...

...and that is pretty much sums-up my views on this presidency.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

Bea,

I strongly remonstrate the use "bea's bea-atch" in reference to tb. The phrase you want to coin denigrates the act of being an obsequious sycophant. It's use precludes any hint of class and sophistication. It stirs to mind an image of one living in an 1972 Airstream just outside of Tempe, Arizona.

No I shall use minion.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

sgt, "I was told it was Northeast Africa. Was I taught lies?"

While I would love to be able to tell you "Yes, sgt, There is a Santa Claus", alas, I must tell you... Son, you were taught lies.

The area is Southwest Asia, (though I've never been sure why Egypt is not part of Africa.) Northeast Africa is "The Horn": Djibouti, Eritrea, Somolia, and Ethiopia.

Speaking of Ethiopia, the Ethiopian army seems to be quite capable of routing "The Bad Guys". If we ramp up the "Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa" efforts of intelligence sharing, providing basic supplies, and of course supply of humanitarian resources, they might be receptive to finishing what the WE* started in Southwest Asia. Maybe they can repeat their Somolian success in Mesopotamia.

(*) I say "We" because our Kansas Representatives and Senators we send to the District, voted 6 to 0 to authorize the use of U.S. Force in Iraq. Nary a KANSAS ELECTED official voted nay

BTW.. sgt, MI voting on the issue... Both senators.. Nay, Members of the House 8/8. (Dingle & Kirpatrick both voted nay)

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Tychoman 7 years, 3 months ago

Why would 21,000 more troops make a difference when the first 150,000 isn't working either?

Faceit, you think violence is a good thing? Let's hear it for setting the human race one giant step backwards.

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faceit 7 years, 3 months ago

drewdum,

You refer to violence as if it is a bad thing?

nuclear "medicine" is a great cure for mental illness.

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

NNNNiiiiicccccceeeee Bea!!!!! hoohoohaahaa:)

(that's my first dorky smiley face...)

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

But never never on a Sunday, a Sunday, the one day I need a little rest.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

RI, instead of minion, I would prefer if tb be called my bea-atch. : - )

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Mkh 7 years, 3 months ago

Posted by thunderbuns (anonymous) on January 11, 2007 at 1:47 p.m "In an Islamic state run by people like Ahmadinejad (Iran, Syria, the old Afghanistan, the old Iraq, etc.) they understand only one thing about resolving issues: violence"


Yeah not like our sophisticated western societies, we Always settle our differences with non-violent negotiations. Ha!

Wake up buddy we Are the Aggressors of the Middle East.

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drewdun 7 years, 3 months ago

So right-wingers want more violence, as evidenced by the desire for 'tough' talk/violence against Iran and the suggestion of firing thermo-nuclear weapons to destroy the Middle East.

As if we needed any more evidence that being on the right is a mark of mental illness.

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faceit 7 years, 3 months ago

blackwalnut,

You take your opinions about Bush directly from those two discredited left-wing nuts,Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin and their panned book, George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography

You swallowed that stuff, hook, line, & sinker, huh?

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faceit 7 years, 3 months ago

Blackwalnut. You forgot to mention Granola. Do you have anybody that tie-dyes coats and gloves?

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"sb -- "Hey, bea, WTF? I haven't told anyone how to respond" Oh really. Wasn't it you who wrote:

"If you don't like it, I suppose you could stop posting irrelevant statements..." and "Sgt - there are plenty of other threads for you to participate in."

OK, I get it - Bea's the playground monitor. Did you read any of these posts - these two are complaining that people are arguing this subject - again, is that not the point of being on a thread like this? I didn't tell them how to respond or anything - just to stop posting if they don't like others participating in a spirited discourse.

As for "Bush Fluffers" and "no sane person", that's not name calling - there are plenty of enablers on here who support the pres but can't explain why. If there's a sane person out there who can compare Clinton unfavorably with Bush, please, by all means step up and make your case.

It's also irritating when people make claims but seem not to have read any of the posts that came before:

"Here's why: the whole deal is much bigger than Iraq. Do you support President Bush's effort in Afghanistan? I do, and I suspect you and others around here do not"

Posted by scenebooster (anonymous) on January 11, 2007 at 9:49 a.m.

"No one disputes the need to go to Afghanistan...but whats happening there now? Oh, yeah - taliban resurgence, heroin production at a all time high, and the attendant millions of dollars of cash for terrorists."

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faceit 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm proud to live in a country where we tolerate everyone's opinion...even someone from another country is free to air the opinions here. By that same right, we're free to tell them they're stupid and shut up. However, I would never do that because I enjoy the humor too much. God Bless America!

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

R_I, I was told it was Northeast Africa. Was I taught lies?

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blackwalnut 7 years, 3 months ago

Peaceful protest against war escalation

Today, Thursday, January 11 - 5:00 p.m.

Douglas County Courthouse steps Massachusetts Street at 11th Street downtown Lawrence, Kansas

Bring a candle, a poster, or just your solidarity

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

Militant, I was taught the area was "SouthWest Asia".

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blackwalnut 7 years, 3 months ago

Bush is a man with nothing left to lose, and there is no one more dangerous than such a man.

We have our very own Caligula: crazed, sociopathic, drunk with power, believing himself to be larger than he is, incompetent, intractable, unable to learn from his mistakes, without conscience.

The will of the people means nothing to this man and his criminal Family.

Impeachment is the only option left for America to save herself from the Bush cabal.

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militant 7 years, 3 months ago

I think we need a fresh start over there.

I'd like to see the term "New Middle-east" used on all the maps....after the thermonuclear-tipped cruise missiles have purged the area.

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EmoryL 7 years, 3 months ago

It would be ridiculous to send more troops to Iraq. Most Anericans are sick and tired of this illegal and immoral Bush war. It's time to bring our troops home now.

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thunderbuns 7 years, 3 months ago

ms_c: "The second big mistake, ongoing mistake, is stubbornly refusing to talking to Iran and Syria. True, Ahmadinejad is a real nutter, but why anger him even more. My philosophy has always been, Know thine enemy"

That is the sum and substance of the core problem: the left in this country and elsewhere are afraid to anger Ahmadinejad and those like him. We have to tip toe around them or we "might make them mad".

In an Islamic state run by people like Ahmadinejad (Iran, Syria, the old Afghanistan, the old Iraq, etc.) they understand only one thing about resolving issues: violence. Ya gotta fight fire with fire. Do you honestly think bin Laden would talk diplomatically? He understands only one thing: violence. Ditto with the Holocaust-denier Ahmadinejad. These "people" are dangerous and must be stopped using what they understand: violence.

You are right: "know your enemy". I know them and they understand one thing. And one thing only.

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Kuku_Kansas 7 years, 3 months ago

Thank you for the nice comments earlier today. I will be sure to share many of your remarks with my family.

Thank you.

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juscin3 7 years, 3 months ago

Isn't it funny how a person can come in here and get their panties or shorts in a wad and be all downing on people's comments? I know I made my opinion, and Mr./Ms. I Got Up With A Wedgie (sp?) had to say something about my comment. Not to mention along with everyone else's comment...lol It IS an OPINION! We have the right to have one. Opinions are like *ss holes, and everyone has one! :)~ Have a Jolly Good Day Everyone!

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Kontum1972 7 years, 3 months ago

not once did anyone mention Israel wanting to nuke Iran..guess what kids..if that happens that war in Iraq is gonna look like a picnic..Israel our good buddies our allies want to nuke Iran..nuke Iran an your gonna have every muslim painting bullseyes on all of us....that will really tick them off.....also i spoke to an Army Major who has a couple of tours under his belt..he said 20,000 is nothing....its only 5 brigades..and they are not going all at once...just piece-mealed....they are now dipping into our strategic reserve...get the picture? All you that voted for that guy are responsible...you killed the 3,000 plus....the Pres. of Iraq wants us out of there...but Bush is not leaving because Cheney and his boys want that oil..theres oil in Africa too there is alot of covert stuff going on there.....how many times did Bush mention Al Queida last night...? Remember Gen Shinseki said it was going to take several hundred thousand soldiers to do the job correctly and butted heads with Rumsfeld and Rumy forced Gen Shinseki into retirement..and Bush said last night he didnt send enough troops to do the job...four years later...the quaqmire of vietnam resurfaces....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...!

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ms_canada 7 years, 3 months ago

Boy it took a lot of scrolling to get down here, but here are my thoughts. The speech, well, it wasn't as hard to watch as I thought it would be. Thank goodness he didn't make any faces. I can't stomach those. I sort of felt rather sorry for the poor bloke. He is in an impossible situation and getting out of it will not be easy. As he said, mistakes were made and I believe the biggest one was listening to rummy. He was the biggest boob in Washington. He was told by the generals to send more troops, according to Bob Woodward of the Wash Post. but thought he knew better. The second big mistake, ongoing mistake, is stubbornly refusing to talking to Iran and Syria. True, Ahmadinejad is a real nutter, but why anger him even more. My philosophy has always been, Know thine enemy It would be interesting to ask Barbara Bush if her little Georgie refused to eat his carrots and peas. But I don't think an answer would be forthcoming.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

thunderbuns, Be sure when making a statement such as you did in your 12:20 post today, to reference the specific post.

You may well be viewed from henceforth till eternity as... Bea's minion.

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deec 7 years, 3 months ago

Supporting the troops in Afghanistan has NOTHING to do with the invasion/occupation of Iraq. If shrub had remained focused on Osama and Afghanistan instead of rushing will-nilly into Iraq on false pretenses, perhaps Osama would be in custody now.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

tb: "I agree with Bea's comments."

Did anyone ever expect to see tb make such a claim? It is a beautiful day!

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 3 months ago

"b*lls"

... Democrats lack the bills, I assume? Well, I am hoping we'll see some results from Pelosi very soon.

It is sad when an accurate assessment of a president's accomplishments can be mistaken for hyperbole.

And yes, thunderbuns, thanks for stepping up to the plate, as we will have to come up with half a million new soldiers to build up our permanent ranks. I suppose we'll have no trouble spotting you on the news from the front lines!

The numbers we have just heard are so high, I wouldn't doubt if the military started giving enlisted women more benefits to stay out of combat, in hopes of bringing more pro-military children in the country. Otherwise we may be forced to pursue an army enlistment program more similar to Israel's than to what we have taken for granted since 1973.

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

Damn, Bea! Well done.

Complaining? Honey, this isn't complaining! This is FUN!

BTW, I hate the war too. At least we're treating our troops with respect when they return, unlike how the Vietnam vets were treated. Good for us. Let's get our children and spouses and partners home, for crying out loud.

Little Joe has no beltloops.

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blue73harley 7 years, 3 months ago

Tomorrow's OTS question - Should the City Commission send a proclamation to President Bush condemning the decision to send additional troops to Iraq?

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thunderbuns 7 years, 3 months ago

scenebooster:

Here's why: the whole deal is much bigger than Iraq. Do you support President Bush's effort in Afghanistan? I do, and I suspect you and others around here do not. It's much bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan too. Do some thoughtful reading on this site for a few days and draw your own conclusions:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

I agree with Bea's comments. You have your views, I have mine. We disagree. That's the beauty of this country, you can disagree.

In an Islamic state they'll chop your head off.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

sb -- "Hey, bea, WTF? I haven't told anyone how to respond" Oh really. Wasn't it you who wrote:

"If you don't like it, I suppose you could stop posting irrelevant statements..." and "Sgt - there are plenty of other threads for you to participate in."

You ask, "I haven't called anyone any names, so, really - where do you get off?" Yet a simple glance at your posts this morning finds you referring to "Bush-fluffers" and state "no sane person" ... That is name calling and instantly dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you as someone lacking sanity. It is true that others are far worse offenders, but please don't act all innocent. So really, where I get off is at the bus stop called "Civil Discourse." I highly recommend it.

Finally, just so you know, I agree with your viewpoint on the war and argued against deployment of any troops to Iraq back when the Dixie Chicks could still get a good table in a Nashville restaurant. I let my liberal flag fly on a regular basis, and the thought of defending tb makes me cringe, but we must commit to rise above. I just hate the hate and the total dismissing of others' opinions that goes for political discussion these days.

Plus, you picked on Gootsie, who obviously and already has defended herself. So count me as the Secretary at the Deptarment of Redundancy Department.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"yes, we can post elsewhere, but we choose not to."

Um, so don't complain?

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

Scenebuster, I was merely pointing out that this topic has been cussed and discussed several times - it was a reflection on the question of the day. You must be new.

yes, we can post elsewhere, but we choose not to.

"If you don't like it, I suppose you could stop posting irrelevant statements..." Nuh uh...not my style. I live for irrelevant.

Besides, I'm the secretary of the irrelevant interior.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

An excerpt from Charles Dickens "George Bush"

'Please, sir, I want some more.' 'What!' said the Rangel at length, in a faint voice. 'Please, sir,' replied George, 'I want some more.' Rangel aimed a blow at Georges's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the congress. The congress was sitting in solemn conclave, when Rangel rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentlewoman in the high chair, said, 'Ms Pelosi, I beg your pardon, ma'am! George Bush has asked for more!' There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance. 'For MORE!' said Ms. Pelosi. 'Compose yourself, Rangel, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had used the allotted by the military?' 'He did, ma'am,' replied Rangel. 'That boy will be hung,' said the gentlewoman in the white waistcoat. 'I know that boy will be hung.'

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mick 7 years, 3 months ago

Just a ploy to drag this thing out another year. Bush has no intention of working in this country's interests-never has. He has as much said that he doesn't care what the people think. He, Cheney and Rove need to be investigated, impeached and sit behind bars for treason.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

Sgt -

That's fine. But I haven't seen much of an argument, which is why, given that Iraq is the most pressing issue in our country today, I ask pro-war and pro-Bush people why they think what they do. Haven't called any names. Just trying to get some insight as to how we got to where we are.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Wait, Py, I thought the blue shirt was a major political blunder. I couldn't believe he wore that shirt!

Scene, that's just it -- when I travel around to other active threads, it seems that the majority of them turn into the same sort of argument we're seeing here today. The reason I've enjoyed this particular thread is that for the most part, it tends to stay away from this sort of argument. Even when there are spirited disagreements, the political name-calling isn't the rule like it is on many other active threads.

Bea, I'm glad you understand me. And to be specific, since Millen drafted a very good linebacker, I think he should be the Secretary of Defense.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

Damn, Bea!!! I was waiting for you to come on here and set of these folks straight.

"You're an idiot if you don't agree with my view!!!"

Ok. Fine. Move along, please.

Oh wait... Cut and Paste.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

Hey, bea, WTF? I haven't told anyone how to respond - people get on here and make claims, and I ask them how they reached that position and ask for back-up or reasoning...I believe this is the very point of participating in a blog?

TB made a very simple statement, and I asked him why he feels this way...unless I'm mistaken, the title of this thread is "What do you think of the proposed US Troop increase in Iraq", and those of us interested in this topic are involved in this thread to discuss it. I haven't called anyone any names, so, really - where do you get off?

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

Among the many silly statements so far, my favorite is mention of "Dessert Storm." Everybody run! Its raining cheesecake!

sgt, you have made your point already. You completely and fully support Bush and think Millen should be named to his cabinet. Got it. Now, any ideas for a second thread or question, you know, so you and Gootsie can still take part without upsetting sb, the newly self-appointed general of the board?

sb -- tb answered the question, directly and honestly. Some are for, some are against. I'm against. tb is for. Anything I write won't change his mind, and he won't change mine. Type away if you wish, but please stop telling others how they should respond. You see, there isn't any real debate going on around here -- just name-calling and put-downs. If you don't like our pointing this simple fact out to you, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads for you to participate.

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deec 7 years, 3 months ago

And when will you be enlisting?

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"I think it's good and I support President Bush."

Do you have any rational reason for this statement, or are you operating from your "gut"?

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thunderbuns 7 years, 3 months ago

I think it's good and I support President Bush.

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avietnamvet 7 years, 3 months ago

Send the usless idiot (Bush) to Iraq. Maybe they'll figure out what to do with him. Get our troops out. One American life is two too many for Iraq. God bless our troops.

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Pywacket 7 years, 3 months ago

Horrible, misguided decision--like every other decision this clown has made since---

--oh, wait... Can't say that. Come to think of it, I believe his decision to wear the blue Albini shirt and the Versace rep tie with the medium-gray two-button, single-breasted Armani suit that one night in 2003, at a dinner party for a mid-level diplomat, was very sound!

haha---just ribbing you, sgt!

I confess, I pretty much agree with Thea Perry, but will concede to you that, yes: even the worst 'decider' in the world will occasionaly blunder into doing the right thing every now & then. I (like Thea) just can't bring to mind anything noteworthy that this blundering decider has done right. Ever. Everything he touches withers.

We are not fighting for our freedom or for any noble cause, despite the lies the "leaders" are feverishly instilling into all the victims they are recruiting--the young folks who ARE noble and brave and trusting and who tragically believe that "patriotism" means "doing whatever is asked by whomever is currently in charge."

Bless them and keep them--a great percentage of those who survive will undoubtedly realize how badly their trust was misused and how cavalierly their lives were offered up for nothing--just as so many 'Nam vets came to realize.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

Sgt - there are plenty of other threads for you to participate in.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Gootsie, I'm hoping for a swift return to the previous style of OTS questions. You know, questions about New Year resolutions and Elvis songs. This left/right griping gets tiresome.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

It will actually accomplish one thing: It will allow the president to continue to meander on through the rest of his term, and pass off this horrible mistake for the next president to worry about.

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person_of_interest 7 years, 3 months ago

I agree with Jonas.

21,000 more troops won't accomplish anything.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

I've noticed, and I don't like it, but it's simply the result of a very strategic move by the president - if they go along with his plan they lose support from those who elected them, if they go against him they become susceptible to charges of being "unpatriotic" or "not supporting the troops".

Unfortunately we've seen that there are a lot of people in this country that continually fall for such tactics.

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Adrienne Sanders 7 years, 3 months ago

Anyone else notice that the new democratic congress seems to be lacking the b*lls to say no to this?

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MarkyDSaad 7 years, 3 months ago

IF we are in Iraq due to our government's desire to control oil and we are irate at the loss of life over this oil fight and we demand that our soldiers not die for this reason and at least 50% of our people agree that this fight is horrrible and absolutely wrong, THEN why have we not seen 50% of the people boycott oil and its uses? Why have we not sen more people demand technology that would not require oil consumption. Why are we not making the non lethal sacrifices in our own country to push to get the soldiers home safely? I would dare to say it is impossible to prove that a war is ever futile or worthwhile at it inception, but only after time gives us evidence that it did not play out the way it was planned. The loss is actually incurred in continuing to provide resources and energy to arguing whether or not a war is reasonable. Instead we should divert the energy into a reasonable solution. In this case if we do not have a need for fossil fuels, then we do not have a need to fight for them. If we believe that fossils fuels are a non-renewable tragedy. Then by releasing ourselves from the addiciton we would win the battle on more than one front. We would have no need to be in the middle east fighting for oil. We would not be putting resources into the middle east that they would be using to fight against us. We would be supporting our own futures both economically and environmentally by switching gears to a non oil based energy source for homes an cars. It is not an overnight solution, but it will cost a lot less in lives if we get started now.

Please feel free to show me the error of my ways, but realize that I am neither R or D and I am not pushing any religioius cause with this agenda.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"another cut and paste day. How ordinary."

I believe that's the point; to discuss and argue over points and opinion.

If you don't like it, I suppose you could stop posting irrelevant statements...

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

another cut and paste day. How ordinary.

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weterica 7 years, 3 months ago

"If we fail in Iraq it won't be because of the military but rather those in this country who continue to demean their mission and give hope to their enemies."

Exactly! If American citizens and press quit being such whiners then we can militarily solve this silly old Shiite-Sunni split that been going on since 632, among other things like Arab tribalism and inherent anti-Western sentiments in the region. Unfortunately all you armchair generals are just too stupid to understand. Man, you guys are stupid!

Thank you so much, optimist, for your condescending rebuke of democracy and apparent wish for military rule.

Now all you stupids shut up and let the leadership keep winning this war. They've done a terrible job so far, and every naive, platitude-laden benchmark that was set by the civilian leadership is now not even on the horizon of possibility, but that doesn't change the fact that all you armchair generals are stupid and wimpy, and don't have the courage to send Americans into a civil war that our leadership doesn't even understand.

If only the whole citizenry was as brave as Bush and Cheney! Sure, they were too chicken to sacrifice themselves in a war, but at least they are brave enough to sacrifice others.

Sure, pretty much everything that they sold the American public about this war has been at best wrong, and at worst lies, but all you dummies need to shut up and let them keep going, because all you Silly Billies just don't understand. Man, you guys are stupid. Just let the leaders lead. Screw accountability!

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Wow, bea -- I suggested a draft and I didn't even realize it! I must be slipping.

Weterica, I thought my comments were fairly straightforward. She said Bush hasn't done one thing right, and I said that seemed a bit extreme, since even those who are among the worst at their jobs -- like Millen -- generally do something right at some point -- like the Lions' drafting Ernie Sims last year. I don't recall saying that Bush is an amazing president or that Millen deserves support.

As far as the Bears developing a nuclear bomb ... well, I don't think it's the Bears. I'm pretty sure it's the Packers preparing for Favre's retirement.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"the security of this nation and the lives of our soldiers aren't your responsibility."

Bush has shown he doesn't take these responsibilities very seriously either...9/11 Commission? Body armor? Troop levels? A f**king plan?

"What if we had not gone to Afghanistan or Iraq and instead made nice with everyone at the UN and we had been attacked again and again over the last 6+ years. Would those of you critical of the President today have been any less critical of him? "

No one disputes the need to go to Afghanistan...but whats happening there now? Oh, yeah - taliban resurgence, heroin production at a all time high, and the attendant millions of dollars of cash for terrorists.

Iraq was a mistake - in theory and in practice.

"Let's honor them by letting them finish. "

I wonder if the average 19 year old in Baghdad agrees with statement...

"It's easy for us hear to say cut and run when we've given nothing to this endeavor. "

And whose fault is that? Tax cuts in war time?

"Those who have deserve every chance to succeed rather than have the rug pulled out from under them. "

Um, see body armor, troop levels, up-armoring, and, oh yeah, a plan.

"If we fail in Iraq it won't be because of the military but rather those in this country who continue to demean their mission and give hope to their enemies that the American citizenry lacks the will to win and the confidence in our military to deliver victory."

So, it's the average citizens job to rah-rah inspite of all evidence? It's "our" fault, not the POTUS'? Are you this blinded???

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deec 7 years, 3 months ago

Perhaps if Shrub hadn't blundered into Iraq on falsehoods, the situation in Afghanistan would be stable by now. Remeber Afghanistan? The country we invaded because the orchestrator of 9-11 was hiding there? Where's Osama? Not in Iraq.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"They are there to fight for OUR freedom! "

Um, really? Please enlighten us as to how Iraq or Iraqis have or were about to take away our freedoms...

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Genome 7 years, 3 months ago

optimist--Even Bush sr rallied support for Dessert Storm, that is why it went smoothly. It is easier to say sitting here away from the president's seat or away from the military, but there are particular ways in which to accomplish goals and W chose to push into chaos (unilaterially). This mess is the result of those choices. We have failed in Iraq. Unfortunately, we lost many, as has the Iraqis. I lost a friend in Iraq in 2004.

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

Twice as many troops in......

twice as many dead ones out.

This sucks............

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optimist 7 years, 3 months ago

Many of you on this post have no idea what you are talking about. You know little to nothing of how the military operates yet you feel comfortable playing armchair general because the security of this nation and the lives of our soldiers aren't your responsibility.

War is never perfect. It is not a primetime television show that is resolved in an hour or several hours over several nights and if you screw up you don't get to hit the reset button.

We should all be thankful to anybody who serves in the office of President regardless of their party. It is a difficult job. The President is guaranteed to have half of the country disagree with him at any given time on any given issue. When you are wrong he can guarantee the half that disagreed will be very vocal.

I leave this little tidbit behind today. What if we had not gone to Afghanistan or Iraq and instead made nice with everyone at the UN and we had been attacked again and again over the last 6+ years. Would those of you critical of the President today have been any less critical of him? I suggest that no matter what he did for many out there they would have been every bit as critical of him because it is not the policy they loath as much as the man. I don't recall any of this opposition when President Clinton sent our troops into the middle of an ongoing civil war for what was supposed to be only a year. We are still there today, more than a decade later.

The war hasn't gone perfectly but our military leadership and soldiers have done their best and will continue to do their best with a lot more riding than you armchair generals. Let's honor them by letting them finish. If the new generals have come in with new perspective and believe they can hold territory better with more troops then we should let them give it a try before we decided to give up on them. It's easy for us hear to say cut and run when we've given nothing to this endeavor. Those who have deserve every chance to succeed rather than have the rug pulled out from under them. If we fail in Iraq it won't be because of the military but rather those in this country who continue to demean their mission and give hope to their enemies that the American citizenry lacks the will to win and the confidence in our military to deliver victory.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

I think Weterica needs a hug this morning. Or a solid kick in the rear end. We should start with a hug and then progress as needed.

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juscin3 7 years, 3 months ago

KuKu, my prayers are with you and your family. My brother is scheduled to leave next month. It's still kind of hard to think that he is goin to be gone over there. I do understand why he is going. Just like all of us, we have friends and family that are going over there and some come home, some do not. Just know that they are there for a reason. They are there to fight for OUR freedom! There are things that I don't agree with Bush, but, do you think any other president would have done it differently?? JUST MY OPINION FOLKS, don't start throwing darts at me!

Have a great day!

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weterica 7 years, 3 months ago

"Thea's first statement bothers me. I don't know that it's accurate to say that he hasn't done "a single thing right." That sounds more like hyperbole than anything. He's done a lot wrong, but I don't think it lends credibility to anyone to make a statement like that." -sgtwolverine

OH I KNOW! This random person stopped on the street to answer a question has totally lost credibility for me too! She should really be more careful while commenting to a 20something with a clipboard and a digital camera. To think I was looking for hard-hitting honest analysis when I viewed her comments!

Good job, sgtwolverine, you've pointed out Thea's shortcomings.

Now what was the question again? Oh yeah, "what do I think about Matt Millen?" I think he has made one of the worst NFL franchises the worst. He keeps talking about 'victory' and 'freedom' and making the Lions a beacon of hope for the NFC North. But for some reason the Bears are developing a nuclear bomb now.

But at least he made that good draft pick. We should all support Matt Millen. He's made a couple right choices in yet another last place finish in the NFC North.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"Bush is an idiot uh? What do you call giving nuclear weapons to the Communist? Thanks a lot President Clinton: What's Japanese for "idiot"?"

Hey, slick - let's let go of the past! Why is it that you Bush-fluffers have to invoke Clinton at the first hint of criticism of Bush?

Is reality too rough to take? Regardless of Willy's many flaws, no sane person can reasonably say that Bush is even in the same league as Pres. Clinton.

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Genome 7 years, 3 months ago

What's the point of more money out of our pockets? At least 50% overhead is used by contractors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102401237.html

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 7 years, 3 months ago

This morning, I felt the need for a cold performance enhancing product. As I was purchasing the product, I heard that song by KT Tunstall, "Suddenly I See". I had a vision.... Maria Shriver should be the First Lady. We just need a constitutional change to make it possible.

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Bruce Rist 7 years, 3 months ago

Bush is an idiot uh? What do you call giving nuclear weapons to the Communist? Thanks a lot President Clinton: What's Japanese for "idiot"?

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

How about that KU-OSU game last night!!!

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

May he return safely and quickly, KuKu.

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samsnewplace 7 years, 3 months ago

BUSH is a greedy man and wants ALL the oil in Iran, but at what cost? Several in this thread have said impreach, i'm all for it! The only thing he will accomplish in sending more troops, will be more of our guys and gals dying for his arrogance and stupidity. Say NO!

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

It will mean more Americans will die.

If more troops are sent, I truly hope that they are successful. I just don't believe they can be since we are now in the middle of a civil war, and all of the participants hate us.

And not once did Bush mention WMDs.

sgt: What exactly are you suggesting with the Bush / Millen analogy? Sounds like you are trying to sneak in a draft on us.

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goatdog 7 years, 3 months ago

Bush is a fvcking war criminal. Let the international community try him for his actions and then hopefully hang the fvcker along with the rest of the greedy oilmad bloodsuckers.

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acg 7 years, 3 months ago

More troops aren't going to do a damned thing. That little idiot has screwed this beyond belief. I cringe every day when I read the news.

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scenebooster 7 years, 3 months ago

"Thea's first statement bothers me. I don't know that it's accurate to say that he hasn't done "a single thing right." That sounds more like hyperbole than anything. "

So, please tell us what he's done right, 'cuz I can't name a single thing.

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RonBurgandy 7 years, 3 months ago

I think that there are a lot more braver people than I. I could only wish I would have the courage to face what they will/are.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

Kuku - Best wishes to your brother.

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paladin 7 years, 3 months ago

The more troops the U.S. has in Iraq, the more entrenched it becomes in a hopeless situation and the more damage it does to itself and to the Middle-east as a whole. We have no genuine mission in Iraq and never did. The radical Muslims, the number of them increasing all the time, are on a holy mission from God unto death, as they see it. We cannot defeat that unless we kill them all and that is not viable. The whole mess was, and is, about control of the world's oil supply in competition with China, not about a cataclysmic religious war at all. This is primarily why congress has laid down and directly or indirectly supported it. There has to be a better way of living with China as a global superpower than to engage in a brutal, primitive, fruitless war. A corrupt government begets a corrupt government. The Muslims know this. We need to get our troops out of Iraq ASAP. All we are accomplishing there is more death and destruction.

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hottruckinmama 7 years, 3 months ago

i have not seen one thing that makes me think that the iraqi people want freedom or peace badly enough to be worth a drop of our boys blood. i think this is the presidents one last chance. if they let him do it i think we had better see some pretty dramatic results in a very short time. i'm talking months. if not than we better be prepared to yell "enough" loud enough so that congress listens.

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Redneckgal 7 years, 3 months ago

He breifly mentioned Iran and Syria last night in the speech. What was that all about? I think we better watch this closely and be ready to demand impeachment if he so much as thinks about going after them too.

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oldgranny 7 years, 3 months ago

Kuku_kansas God bless and protect your brother and keep him safe. anxiousatheist ..you are right. The shame is all of of ours whether we voted for the man or not.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Thea's first statement bothers me. I don't know that it's accurate to say that he hasn't done "a single thing right." That sounds more like hyperbole than anything. He's done a lot wrong, but I don't think it lends credibility to anyone to make a statement like that.

After all, the Lions' Matt Millen is pretty much as bad as it gets, but even he made a good first-round draft choice last year. So for as much as he's done wrong (and as much as I want him out of the organization), he has done a few things right. A very few, but a few nonetheless.

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Clint Gentry 7 years, 3 months ago

Screw apologies, start the impeachment process. An illegal war of aggression places the blood in all our hands, it' s time to wash them clean...

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blue73harley 7 years, 3 months ago

As sublime says it is fubar. I don't think sending more troops will quell the civil war. It MIGHT make it safer for the troops already there.

Kuku_Kansas - best wishes to your brother.

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jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

That it's not enough to accomplish anything.

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Kuku_Kansas 7 years, 3 months ago

My brother is scheduled for deployment to Iraq in three weeks.

I apologize to myself, at times, for not having the courage to do what my brother may experience.

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sublime 7 years, 3 months ago

The situation in Iraq is fubar, no argument there.Feeling the need to apologize for it, is just plain stupid.

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tell_it_like_it_is 7 years, 3 months ago

Posted by sublime (anonymous) on January 11, 2007 at 5:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I feel like I have to apologize when I talk to my family overseas."

  • Thea Perry, teacher, Lawrence

What a crock!?


Why is it a crock? The rest of the world and all but a few knot heads in this country have figured out this president is an idiot.

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sublime 7 years, 3 months ago

I feel like I have to apologize when I talk to my family overseas."

  • Thea Perry, teacher, Lawrence

What a crock!?

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mefirst2006 7 years, 3 months ago

my son is already there just wish he was back home safe.

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