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Are you surprised Mark McGwire wasn’t voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 10, 2007

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Photo of Ian Ostrander

“It’s not a bad idea to wait considering all the controversy. They can always induct him later when it all blows over.”

Photo of Travis Cloud

“Yes, I am surprised. He held the records, so he deserves to be in it.”

Photo of Jean Dreiling

“Yes, I am. He never tested positive for steroids and was such a high-scoring player. There’s no reason he shouldn’t get in.”

Photo of Matt Marrs

“No, I’m not. If they’re not going to let Pete Rose in, they shouldn’t let him in.”

Comments

Grundoon Luna 8 years, 5 months ago

I agree wih Ian. It's better to settle the controversy, a-hem, first.

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

Not in the least. I didn't think there was any way he'd get 75%.

As far as will he ... when he's ready to talk about the past, then maybe he'll make it.

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

bingo Harley. When they didn't do that, I lost all interest in the BBHOF. They can do nor not do whatever they want.

I'm going to be a grandma for the first time!!!

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

CONGRATTTTTTTTS, GOOTSIE!!! this gramma stuff is awesommmmmmme! :) welcome to the granny club!

as for the ots ? of the day-i'm stunned! outraged! shocked! beside myself(and that's quite a feat, hah)! aghast! =:0

actually? i don't pay much if any attention to this stuff. ;)

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

R_I, I've been very worried about you lately. You seem to be holding your thoughts and feelings back. Let it out - you're among friends here.

Unfettered - reminds me of tether ball.

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

As an old fan of McGuire's from the days when he played for the Athletics, before the strike ruined my opinion of baseball, let me just say. . . .

OF COURSE he shouldn't be allowed in. There is no controversy, he was absolutely using steroids. Him and Bonds both went from decent 40 HR power hitters to monstrous humongoloid 70 HR power hitters in the span of what, like 2 seasons? It's against the current rules of the game, and it gave them an unfair advantage, both over todays players and the old players they stole the records from.

That said, I don't really have a problem with athletes using steroids, as long as the rules are changed for everybody, and the record books are changed to BS and AS to show the change. If some grown men want to shrink their testicles to provide more home run excitement, then that's okay to me. But then, I also think baseball would be a lot more entertaining with a sniper who would randomly take out base runners during the game, so I don't know if I would recommend listening to my ideas.

It would not, however, be very difficult to discourage steroid abuse amongst kids even if the rules were changed. Upper Deck and Top cards could come up with a "steroids pack" with all the current users, and the pictures, instead of the usual profile, would just show pictures of their tiny, shriveled man parts for everybody to see. Problem solved.

RonBurgandy 8 years, 5 months ago

Can anyone tell me if there was an actual rule regarding steroid use on the books 10 years ago? I am not sure if there was or not.

If there wasn't, then he didn't really break the rules in those regards. I am fully supportive of steroid testing however, don't get me wrong. But I do think that if he was on steroids, many other baseball players were as well, including the pitchers he was up against. I don't see the cloudiness of steroids keeping him out of the hall of fame.

I agree with R_I, that the entire process is just a good ol' boys club, and with the negative light shown on McGuire these days, they want to distance themselves from the whole situation.

ms_canada 8 years, 5 months ago

Don't have any feelings about McGuire but sure want to say congrats to gootsie. A word of encouragement: enjoy the little one, a word of advice: don't spoil him. Just love him to bits. They can be a joy. I have 4 joys and love them to bits.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Congrats Goots!!! Being Grammy is the best of both worlds. You just spoil them and instill "you are special" into their little psyches -- and if they don't behave you send them home for the parents to straighten out :) It's a win-win situation. Also, "But Grammy doesn't do it that way" has become one of my favorite phrases. (Heaven knows I heard it enough when my daughters were little -- now they get to hear it :)

BBHOF: previous posters have stated it quite accurately, when they snubbed Buck they lost my respect.

btw, I think I heard them say Saberhagen was no longer eligible. Did anyone else hear that? If so please enlighten me because I really lack sports knowledge but I do know something about previous Royals players.

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

Congrats Gootsie! Remember, your job will be to spoil, spoil, spoil!

I'm not at all surprised, especially since they have been reporting for the past month on how he wouldn't get in. It would be like being surprised at a surprise birthday party that you had to plan yourself.

I lost all respect for the BBHF when they cancelled the showing of Bull Durham just because its star, Tim Robbins, was a Democrat who opposed the Iraq war. That was a true -- "This day in McCarthyism" -- moment.

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

I thought any HOF was just a matter of opinion in the first place.

domino 8 years, 5 months ago

I could be mistaken, but I believe at the time McGuire was playing, there were no "rules" about steriod use - think they have been put in place since then. So technically, "if" he was using steriods, he was not breaking the "rules" of that time, unnlike Pete Rose, who was in violation of the "rules". If he didn't break the rules, he should be in the HOF. Do I think there should be a ban on steriod use in all athletics - YES. Do I think McGuire used steroids - YES. Do I think he should be kept out of the HOF because he did something that was, at that time, acceptable, although stupid - NO. Not his fault we changed the "rules"

bigcat 8 years, 5 months ago

There was a steroid rule in place, but there was no testing.

ms_canada 8 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie - I see that I was out-voted on the spoiling bit. So, sure, go ahead and spoil him. It's part of the privilege of grandparenthood, I suppose. It is a white out here in my city. I cannot see across the river. We have the mother of all blizzards right now. Can't see the city at all. Does that sound strange. Well let me explain. I live on the riverbank, 220 ft. up and the city is somewhere across and down there, I hope.

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

Thanks everyone! I have been waiting for this for a loooooong time. And Ms_C, I will without a doubt spoil grand? unit. It's in my nature! Bad part, grand? will be living in SW Kansas....first road trip? The World's Big Hand Dug Well, of course!

Thanks for the compliment Consumer! Your time is not that far off.

ohjayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Ceal - It is true Saberhagen is no longer eligible. In order to remain on the ballot for all 15 years (or until they elect you anyway), a player must receive 5% of the votes. Saberhagen only received 1.3%. Therefore, he will not be on any future ballots.

As for McGwire, the BBHOF voters are able to cast their ballots based upon personal conduct, among other things. Therefore, they can vote not based solely upon a player's feats on the field. I think there are too many voters who feel that, even though the use of steroids were not banned from baseball at the time, what McGwire and others did was against one of the "unwritten rules" for which baseball is so famous. There is also the fact that, even though baseball did not ban the use of steroids, the use of them without a doctor's prescription was still illegal.

Personally, though, I think it is a bit touchy to keep him out on circumstantial evidence alone. I honestly think he did them. However, I (nor do I suspect any of the BBHOF voters) have no concrete proof that he did.

bigcat 8 years, 5 months ago

OK, So let's talk about this one from the athletic point of view not from the point of view of people who never played real athletics especially at a high level. We also need to get a bunch of facts straight. First off were steroids there, hell yes, but let me tell you that they are very prevalent in the major leagues especially during that time. Talking to a friend in the NFL he stated about 80% of the NFL athletes during that era took steroids and he would say about 70% in baseball at the same time. But here is the problem, we are making McGwire and Bonds the scapegoats because their genetics allowed them to build larger muscles. Even with steroids it deals a lot with the genetics on how muscles grow and how big they grow. If you are more apt to grow larger muscles then you will get quite large if you put the time into the weight room. On the other side, if you are not genetically inclined to grow large muscles, you can get stronger, but not necessarily huge. So in the cases of McGwire, Bonds, Conseco, Palmero (sp?), etc they were just more noticeable. There were probably 100's of other MLB players out there that were taking these supplements that we think are saints, but were just as guilty. Steroids have also been around athletics since the 30's and huge in the 70's so how many others are in the hall of fame that are guilty. We are making assumptions that we know nothing about. If the news people are talking character then why in the hell are half those people in the hall of fame? I mean come on, how many people would have voted in Ty Cobb on character? A noted racist, womanizer, and alcoholic. We talk a lot about steroids, and don't get me wrong they are a terrible drug that no one should ever take and they do improve performance, but we really need to worry about HGH. HGH or Human Growth Hormone is the newest flavor of the month that we have a lot of difficulty testing for, and professional athletics have no legit way of testing for it. If you want to talk about something that will screw you up that is it. It will make you huge and do twice as much as steroids. The problem is that it messes with internal organs that will almost always cause an early death if abused. What are some tell-tale signs? Your head will grow, making you almost look like a Neanderthal, your teeth will spread, and jaw bones will start protruding slightly. This is the common age for pro athletes to use HGH, but we can't test for it, so we are going after these guys, who may have never tested positive for steroids, when they weren't even taking the worse of the worse.

bigcat 8 years, 5 months ago

Now, in no way, shape, or form does this post condone steroid use or illegal performance enhancing drugs, they are horrible things that will do a lot more damage in the long run then they help in the immediate present, but I truly feel we are making patsies out of some people to save the game, that if the truth got out on everyone who ever took performance enhancing drugs it would be over.

sunflower_sue 8 years, 5 months ago

McGuire? much greater people have been passed over.

Congrats Gootsie!

I've missed you all! Internet sucks here in Bangalore! My personal asst is getting my slab 'o cheesecake ready for me. Gotta go. Ya'll have a good one.

StirrrThePot 8 years, 5 months ago

At least he didn't have an asterisk (*) by his name when he orginally broke the season HR record.

Gareth Skarka 8 years, 5 months ago

"cheaters and drug abusers never win"

....not true. Often, they get to become President.

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

TOB, my offspring unit lives near there, thus the grand? will be there.

or Donald Trump, Harley.

Two words - woo hoo!

bevy 8 years, 5 months ago

Congrats Gootsie. I saw a great sign in someone's yard the other day. It said "Grandchildren spoiled here" Maybe you should get one.

I am with ya'll on the snubbing of Buck O'Neal (sorry if I spelled it wrong). He was a great GENTLEMAN and a true inspiration. If he doesn't represent greatness in baseball, I don't know what does. McGwire does nothing for me. Don't care if he gets in or not.

But -- Sabes is out? Say it ain't SO! He was one of my favorites back when the Royals still had a team. During the heyday of the mid-80s. Corresponds with my high school years so I remember it fondly. Spent many a balmy Kansas afternoon/evening listening to Denny and Denny while helping my dad (also named Denny) work on our house.

Those were the days...

JerkStore 8 years, 5 months ago

The simple way to deal with this is to stop with the "back in my day" bs and just compare players against those of their own era since every era is different. Before 1920, the spitball was legal. How moral was that? Yet there are many pitchers who are enshrined from that era because they still stood head-and-shoulders over the others. Same for the power hitters from the 30s and pitchers from the 60s.

McGwire was a dominant offensive force. Better than almost every other hitter from the 90s - countless numbers of whom were also using PEDs - and facing many many pitchers who also used.

Every voter who rejected McGwire better be ready to do the same for every player who stepped on the field in the last 20 years. EVERY player. Because they don't really know who did what.

Bone777 8 years, 5 months ago

I feel bad for Mark McGuire. He just hit a growth spirt when he was in his mid-thirties.

Doesn't everyone?

bevy 8 years, 5 months ago

Bone777 - ROLFMAO!! Growth Spurt!

I had one in my mid-30s too. Unfortunately it was horizontal...

Bone777 8 years, 5 months ago

Poor Mark McGwire.

It must be a "real shot in the ass" not to get in.

budwhysir 8 years, 5 months ago

Who is this mark we read about??????????? What happened to the good old days when anyone could be elected to the sports hall of fame???????? I mean what do you have to do me as straight as an arrow and make no mistakes. Look at all the trouble the football guys get into. All that money makes a difference on how one acts.

I know people dont even pay attention to what I say, and its been pointed out that many think im off my rocker but be rest assured that I know about what I write about. Its lonely at the top but I have a great view

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