Advertisement

Previous   Next

Do you think the withdrawal of British troops will affect U.S. decision-making about Iraq?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on February 22, 2007

Browse the archives

Photo of Mary Ryan

“I don’t think that their presence was ever really a concern of ours, so I don’t think our position is going to change because of it. We’re going to do what we’re going to do.”

Photo of Andy Fitzgerald

“No. Bush will probably just use this to sell his troop increase. It all depends on what his people tell him to do.”

Photo of Jacqueline Victor

“I think that it would have to. For reasons of both manpower, which seems to be our biggest problem, and I can’t imagine that it wouldn’t affect international opinion with them being our ally from the start.”

Photo of Jeff Smith

“I would say probably not. It seems like we’ve made the decision to stay until we think the job is done, and I don’t think other countries’ decisions or involvement will change that.”

Comments

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Baldaq - I have no illusions about Arafat. The man was evil incarnate, evil incarnate. Ahmadinejad ignores the UN rulings. What do you think can be done to force him to comply? Bomb the h&(( out of Tehran? Why not just wait until the Imam Mahdi and Jesus return and they will fix everything. :o) :o) tee hee

temperance 7 years, 10 months ago

The 9th grader understands. Cheney has already started to spin the British drawdown as a sign that things are going well over there.

The British press has been much more active in documenting the US buildup to confront Iran. I wonder if the decision has anything to do with THAT impending disaster?

ohjayhawk 7 years, 10 months ago

Cheese specialist? I want to go back to school to get a B.A. in Gouda. Maybe a M.S. in Camembert.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Hey, TOB, you're right -- they did interview Hurley! They must have edited out his multiple uses of the word "dude."

Crossfire 7 years, 10 months ago

The British were just the Piano Player in this Bar Fight. We'll miss the Music.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

I'm not even sure the U.S. will affect U.S. decision-making.

jonas 7 years, 10 months ago

Well, the quoted respondants seem to cover it pretty well. Doesn't seem like there's anything else of value to say. I'm sure that this thread will have a quiet discussion of the merits of some of those points, and then we'll all go our seperate ways for a productive day!

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

I love how incompetent world leaders call other world leaders incompetent in order to not be looked upon as incompetent themselves. Or some incompetent thing like that. Incompetent world leaders.

I'm just concerned that now the troops won't have as free access to crumpets.

Seriously, I'm afraid it might cause our president to want to send even more troops, beyond the present "surge" amount already selected. Plus, we will have to have a whole bunch more soldiers there waiting for the green light to invade Iran.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Being a veteran of Operation Desert Storm, I was predicting then what would be the eventual outcome of an invasion of Iraq...

There will only be peace when that country is split into thirds with each group having their own boundaries...

Now, stop the bloodshed and make it happen...

BTW, the British have lost all control of the south so why not leave... Do what they are doing... Claim 'victory' and then get the hell out...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Everytime I hear the argument for splitting Iraq into three sections it reminds me of a group of people who currently want to split the US into three sections. The idea has been pushed for years by Tom Metzger of the WHite Aryan Resistance and Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam. They want a white section, black section and "other section." (to be politically correct)

Granted the current religious and ethnic separations in Iraq are confusing and complex but this McDonalds fast food separate everyone idea is only a short term fix. The bottom line is there is a need to educate and create security.

If people on the East side of Lawrence started killing each other off becasue one group had umbrellas in the trees and the others did not what do you think people would be demanding...more security. They would be fighting tooth and nail for a forced division of territory for people in some cases have lived int he same house all their life.

Didn't we learn forced moving of an entire ethnic group does not work (ie the Trail of Tears).

It is about educating. There are even hints the Saudi's and some Iraqi reformers have gotten the right idea and are pushing for reforms in education and tolerance.

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD146007

RonBurgandy 7 years, 10 months ago

It will or will not have some or no effect on the situation.

I don't claim to know the best plan to resolve the situation in Iraq, but it is definitely a mess there.

Hehe...poo.

trinity 7 years, 10 months ago

i'm gonna need to pop some popcorn&fix me a big ol' soda, just sit back chillax&watch the fireworks that are sure to come today due to this question. ;)

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

monkeywrench...

I find it amazing how people who think they know what is going on can dismiss the only roadmap to success... Your analogy is also deeply flawed... They AREN'T different colors... AND they've been warring for centuries....

I saw tons of Kurds in my military hospital who were being systematically wiped out by Saddam in '91.... They basically have their own country now and it's the only part of Iraq that's somewhat peaceful...

There will NEVER be peace until all of those groups have an area they feel SAFE in... Until that happens, there will be a mass exodus of the middle class and you are basically going to have a Cambodia type of situation where the country will take forever to recover from the brain drain...

Then each section can fortify their borders, have a standing army, and police their own areas... Having long term bases there will only cause more death...

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

TOB, I think Hurley can be summarized in four words:

"Hey dude, whatcha doing?"

He's pretty much the total opposite of I'm-Saving-The-World-And-Looking-Good-Doing-It Jack.

I liked Eko.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Let me clarify the statement of fighting tooth and nail AGAINST A FORCED move. How can anyone decide who is supposed to go where.

Also it seems the those who understand the middle east a little more are making claims what is going on right now in the middle east is putting pressure on Iran in a variety of ways including the perceived temporary halt in enrichment and a rift between Syria and Iran.

The Middle East on a Collision Course (7): In the Face of Saudi, U.S., and International Pressure, First Signs That Iran is Accepting a Temporary Suspension of Uranium Enrichment By: Y. Mansharof

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA32707

Jordanian Columnist on the Possibility of a Split in the Iran-Syria Axis

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD146407

Iran Established Global Shiite Government, Operating in Accordance with the Protocols of the Mullahs of Qom, to Annihilate the Sunnis

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD146507

Some of what is going on is the terrorists are using our own system against us including the media's lack of checking out the factual basis of a story before printing it in fear another news agency will beat them to the punch.

Islamists Stage Jihad Attack for the Purpose of Psychological Warfare

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD147207

Islamist Websites as an Integral Part of Jihad: A General Overview By: Y. Yehoshua

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA32807

Islamist Forum Participants Discuss Threat to Islamist Sites and Ways to Avoid Exposure On-Line

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD146207

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Monkeywrench....

I think you underestimate the realignment that is already going on in the country. The Sunnis have been leaving en masse or resettling in the Anbar province, the Shia have the south, the Kurds have the north... They're already splitting themselves up... Sure, let whomever wants to remain stay... They'll leave themselves after a short time when the squads come by to drag them out into the streets and drill holes into their head...

It's total chaos now and they'll NEVER get along... The British learned this before we did.... It reminds of the saying about those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Sen

Saddam is dead and it is not 91. We left the Kurds hanging period. The Kurds have had the most secure area since the beginning of this conflict with one of the most professional military and police forces in Iraq.

People are running from place to place to find security, but stacks of foreign fighters are still being killed and captured in Iraq, including Iranians, Egyptians, Saudis, etc...

You have to educate to create tolerance in conjunction with making sexurity. Hate Crimes in the US are caused by several different things...Lack of Education, Lack of Life Experience, Religion differences and Socio-Economic factors. All four of those things are going on in Iraq and around the world in hot spots for terrorism. Splitting the ehtnic groups is not going to solve the problem. Solve one part of the equation (ie religious/ethinc difference) but then you have economic issues and life experience.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

BTW, you only use some charade organization called the Middle East Media Research Institute for your sources.... Is this some puppet organization financed by Faux News or Project for the New American Century to disseminate lies under the guise of some 'think tank'... Why don't you just quote the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute??

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

You know over 200 years ago we were fighting with the British and allied with the French... How times and attitudes change. But they never change fast enough for our "Fast Food/Video Gaming" Society.

My typing is horrible today. I think is meant security rather than sexurity

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Monkeywrench....

Here's a newsflash... There will ALWAYS be foreign fighters there as long as we are there... Also, Osama attacked us on 9/11 because we decided to stay in Saudi Arabia after ODS.... We were 'defiling' his homeland... We will continue to 'defile' their homeland as long as we stay there...

They'll never open their mind to 'education' when they see their family members executed in front of them... The cycle of violence will only end when there is security and you'll never have security until they're separated...

Now, how many more will have to die before people wake up??

I have the visions of our dead soldiers in my head... If more of you did, then you wouldn't be cheerleaders for a war you're too scared to serve in...

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

A little checking into MEMRI....

Basically run by the Israelis.... Like they wouldn't have an axe to grind....

Yes, we know that all muslims are evil...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Form your own opinion. They debate from the media reports of all nations here is a summary

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) explores the Middle East through the region's media. MEMRI bridges the language gap which exists between the West and the Middle East, providing timely translations of Arabic, Persian, and Turkish media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends in the Middle East.

Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East, MEMRI is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501 (c)3 organization. MEMRI's headquarters is located in Washington, DC with branch offices in Berlin, London, Tokyo and Jerusalem. MEMRI research is translated to English, German, Hebrew, Italian, French, Spanish and Japanese.

To support MEMRI's undertaking please click here to send your secure contribution online, or send your donations to:

MEMRI P.O. Box 27837 Washington, DC 20038-7837 Phone: (202) 955-9070 Fax: (202) 955-9077 Email to: donations@memri.org

Please direct all general inquiries to memri@memri.org.

NOTE: We are a 501(c)3 status organization, therefore your donations to The Middle East Media Research Institute are tax-deductible.

THere are plenty of resources I pull from as well:

http://www.adnki.com/index_English.php?ln=1

http://www.albawaba.com/en/main/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/0,2759,178412,00.html

http://haganah.org.il/haganah/index.html

http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/homepage.asp?clr=1&sl=EN&id=-8888&force=1

http://english.aljazeera.net/News

http://siteinstitute.org/index.html

I try to read all sides.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

What you forgot from the wikipedia...

Prominent staff Yigal Carmon - MEMRI's President. He served in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) Intelligence Branch from 1968 to 1988. From 1977 to 1982 he was the Acting Head of Civil Administration in Judea and Samaria and the Advisor on Arab Affairs to the Civil Administration. Following Col. Carmon's retirement from the IDF he was advisor to Premiers Shamir and Rabin for Countering Terrorism from 1988 to 1993. In 1991 and 1992 he was a senior member of the Israeli Delegation to peace negotiations with Syria in Madrid and Washington. Dr. Nimrod Raphaeli received a Ph.D. in development planning from the University of Michigan. He spent most of his professional career at the World Bank, and has consulted for the International Monetary Fund. Dr. Raphaeli, an Iraqi-born, joined the Middle Media Research Institute (MEMRI)as a senior analyst in 2001. Prof. Menahem Milson (Academic Advisor), is a professor at Hebrew University in Arabic literature, and has served as head of the Department of Arabic Language and Literature and Dean of the Faculty of Humanities. He has published extensively on modern Egyptian writers. His book on Egypt's great humanist, Najib Mahfuz - Najib Mahfuz: The Novelist-Philosopher of Cairo appeared in 1998.

And I'm familiar with many of the websites you referenced above... At least, you know all of the 'right' sides... Typical...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Sorry a few more people contribute other than the Israelis.

Hate to tell you, we most likely have foreign fighters in the US as we speak. I agree they will never leave Iraq. They never left Afganistan either. They will fight until they die period or they find andother good spot where they can rule through terror.

I have people close to me in Iraq. I would like them home as well, but they know because they are there they need to stay until the job is done and they can do it more efficiently with more people. Simple analogy...in a hockey game if one team has three people in the penalty box the other team has an advantage and will blitz hard until they score. The more people who return to the game from the penalty box the less chance of it succeeding. THe US had a stupid plan of returning Iranian soldiers when caught in battles.

Now is time for the power play.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

I have a nephew serving in the Marines right now there... I also know the costs of war... Try telling someone that has been lost his legs and has burned to a crispy critter that democracy at the end of a gun is worth it... Afghanistan was worth it... Iraq wasn't/isn't.... 9/11 wasn't a blank check to start a crusade and until we stop fighting muslims in their homeland, that's exactly what it is...

And don't give me that garbage about fighting them over here or that we have to sacrifice more to honor those that have already died... That's a never ending cycle that honors no one... More death to honor death doesn't make sense in my book...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Sounds like they have experience in these types of situations. Do you think many from the bad guys who would present the other side would come to the US and join a think tank to give their side of the conflict. No...so of course they are going to appear to be one sided.

I have a hard time understanding why Israeli and Israel has become such a bad word or become evil. If in the US we had a media story about a lone Jewish guy who was surrounded and attacked repeatedly by 5 or more people due to his religion and that Jewish guy whooped up on them. It would be considered a hate crime and the guy would become a media hero for overcoming the odds.

Israel is a lone Jewish state in the middle of 22 muslim countries and they are the bad guys.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

I never said they are the bad guys but they have an agenda... Just like the current administration...

They've kept their boot on the throat of the PLO and they are just as much to blame for the unrest around them as the arabs... Now, I can't say that I blame them but those are just the facts...

Of course, they would have reason to publicize every threat against the west... They have to keep the terror at a fever pitch because the last thing they want is a more powerful Arab country... Any arab country...

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

"Simple analogy...in a hockey game if one team has three people in the penalty box the other team has an advantage and will blitz hard until they score."

Whoa. That's awesome. Not only does it start with an impossible situation -- a 5-on-2 -- but it also includes football terminology. I love it.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Sen

Look at the map more closely. Afganistan was obvious due to 911. The true spinner of evil is Iran. We could never have successfully started a campaign against them without supplylines and position. Not all mulsim countries will allow for material support for an invasion as was in Turkey's case when we were going to invade Iraq. Also Saddam would have been doing what Iran was doing with us had we invaded Iran but probably with less effectiveness.

Iraq's ethic diversity (although not thought out as well) and being under the rule of a dictator was a better option and it put us closer to Iran for pressure and material support if we ever needed to invade or lauch air strikes against the nuclear threat in Iran. Iran is cocky now but they know an attack could occur if they push things too far.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

MW - Are you advocating an attack on Iran? Are you serious??

Yes, we have them surrounded but the last thing we want is ANOTHER WAR... That's crazy talk...

The president of Iran (I'm not going to try and type his name) is already extremely unpopular in his own country.... He was installed by the mullahs... Quit giving him all the publicity (in an obvious effort to justify going to war against them) and let their 'democratic' process take over... He'll be voted out eventually...

I always find it amazing how we only like the democracies that produce results we agree with...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

We need to understand there are terrorist attacks going on in the US that are being termed "criminal acts" and they have been going on for years prior to 911.

Any time you have a person who shoots up a Jewish Community Center and they have ties to white power or muslim groups make propoganda remarks while they are doing it then it is a hate crime and a terrorist act espcially when the media jumps all over it. Couple elements make it a terrorist act...mass causualites/injuries and wide coverage that instills fear.

The sniper shootings in DC are an excellent example. Mass fear, mass death and injury, but the media kept referring to the suspects as John Malvo etc rather than JOhn Mohamad his converted name and neglected to leave out the comments they made about it being a Jihad.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

I am not advocating an invasion of Iran, but the threat is more imminant. The IRanians do hate the president and the mullas but they don't have much recourse right now. They have people arrested by religion police regularly

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

TOB, Hurley? I thought it was the worst Elvis impersonator ever.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Bea, even if he were an Elvis impersonator, I'm pretty sure there would be at least one that would be worse than the ersatz Hurley. In fact, I think that should be some sort of law of nature: no matter the depth of the badness of any given Elvis impersonator, there is always at least one that's worse.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Monkey and Sen. - I think you fellows ought to read a bit of the history of Islam. That goes for GWB and DC and their underlings or overlings as the case may be. Islam rose in the Arabian Peninsula out of the multitude of tribes that had been warring there forever. When Muhammad introduced the concept of Islam it did not end the warring. In fact, it increased it. A basic part of the education of Muslim children is hatred for Jews, Christians and all Infidels. It would take decades and decades to erase this concept from the minds and hearts of Muslims. Is the US prepared to remain in the Middle East that long? Another point of interest for those who speak of separating Kurds, Sunnis and Shia. This present situation is an artificial one at best. Following WW1 they were united not of their own will. And it was the British, who had the mandate, who set the minority Sunnis in power, the Sunnis who ruled by threat, might and murder all those years. read something of the belief systems that separate the Shia and Sunni and you will realize that amity between them would take a miracle and act of GOD not GWB.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

TOB, sometimes a fumble return for a touchdown is called back because of icing. Then the faceoff comes back into the offending team's red zone.

I'm still trying to picture a hockey team sending a linebacker or safety to pressure the goalie. Would the blitzer be on skates, or would he just use sharp cleats? Questions like that may never be answered on this earth.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

TOB - what's this about a puck with a bright tail? You got my curiosity peaked here now.

RonBurgandy 7 years, 10 months ago

"I'm still trying to picture a hockey team sending a linebacker or safety to pressure the goalie. "

sgt - wouldn't that be offsides?

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Not if they waited until the center snapped the puck!

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Ron B - yes, yes, yes, now I remember those glowing pucks. Thanks for the reminder. The only hockey I ever watch is when my grandson plays and that is on computer via webcast and the picture in some of the arenas is not the greatest, no glowing pucks tails or no tails. He got the only goal last night for a win. Way to go, Rob.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Dang it, Ron, now I'm probably going to have nightmares about the glowing pucks. I think the only halfway useful part of that fiasco was its ability to let you follow the puck when it was on the near boards and out of camera view. Otherwise, it felt like a bad video game.

Linda Aikins 7 years, 10 months ago

How long until we see the word "liberals"?

I would much prefer football - sorry. Four quarters is soooo much more appealing than three periods.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 10 months ago

I wonder what that phone call between Tony and Dubya sounded like. "Please, please, PLEASE don't go! I'll give you ANYTHING! [ala-"Vonage" commercial]

I bet Dubya offered him the colonies back if he'd stay another 4 months.

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

As someone who does not watch "Lost," I'm curious as to why "Hurley" does not seem to lose weight. Are there hidden Klondike Bars on the island?

RI, please cite source on your 70% statistic. I thought withdrawal was only 50% effective. (I have no source.)

I'm so glad that I now know about glowing pucks. I have been wondering how they did that. Now, how do they get that glowing first down line in football?

So if the British are withdrawing troops, why are they sending in Harry? What really are crumpets, anyway? Can I eat kippers with them? Shall I stick to lemon curd?

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Gootsie, I predict we will that that word at 10:27 a.m.

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

"Four quarters is soooo much more appealing than three periods." -Goots

Goots, I don't think there are many that would disagree with you!

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Actually I have a friend who does the computer graphics for the puck and golf so I was nice correlation.

Ms Canada I will take it one further. the Muslim religion was in the minority at the time and did not come into power until the warring began and Muhammad gave those he was victorious over three choices, convert, pay the Jiyza tax ( and live under Dhimmitude) or die. The muslims invaded in this fashion for over 300+ years before Pope Urban II who called for the first Crusade in 1095 at the Counsil of Clarmont. The original conquest of Jerusalem by the muslims was in 638 and violence against non-muslims.

The christians in the middle east were part of the crumbling Byzantine Empire which was the remains of the Roman empire after they converted to christianity.

YOu also left out how they persecuted the Buddists and Hindus throught history. They were particularly harsh on them becasue they were pagens and their gods were not recognized as prophets by the muslims as were Jesus, and many of the jewish prophets.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Sue, they actually did find a stash of food on the island. That's part of it. The other part is that I think his character's metabolism is fast enough to handle one Mike & Ike's every two days.

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

Unless, of course, withdrawal was not effective and you've missed a .

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

sgt, I guess he'll last the longest, then.

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

"Amadinajad has no plans to nuke the west, none at all."

Do you know something about Ahmadinajad we don't? This is what he said:

"Iran's new hard-line president called yesterday for Israel to be "wiped off the map" - the first time for many years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for the Jewish state's eradication.

The remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted a chorus of international condemnation.

President Ahmadinejad, elected in June, was addressing a conference in Teheran entitled "The World Without Zionism", attended by about 3,000 conservative students, who chanted: "Death to Israel!" and "Death to America!"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/27/wiran27.xml

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

Sue -- I am stuck on lemon curd, cause lemon curd is stuck on me.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

What is lemon curd...anything like cottage cheese

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Sue - your lemon curd would go very nicely with crumpets. Toast your crumpet, apply butter and then orange marmelade or lemon curd. Monkey guy - hoorah, I am so pleased that there is another who knows some history. Not too many people are interested in the past, but as someone above said, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat the mistakes. You seem to have a good grasp of the history of Islam. I am currently reading Why I Left Jihad by Walid Shoebat. (not his real name.) I would recommend it. Not a professional sounding book, more like a fellow sitting down and telling his life story to a friend. He quotes a lot of verses from the Qu'ran. He does travel and lecture a lot in the US where he lives now. While trying to convert his wife to Islam, it backfired and he was the one converted to Christanity through reading the Bible to prove that it was false. Not the first person who has had that happen.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Lemon curd is a smooth thick sauce made with lemon juice, sugar, water and cornstarch, is it not, Sue? Very good on toast or crumpets. Crumpets are sort of like English muffins but are cooked in a pan on the top of the stove and not flipped over so that the tops of them have little air holes that fill with yummy butter and lemon curd when hot.

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

No matter what the good guys do, the useful idiots of al qaeda, i.e., the leftwing media, will spin it as a disaster.

They won't be satisfied until they can say we lost the war. Then, they'll blame it on Bush.

Why isn't John Murtha in jail?

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

MS...you touch on another intersting aspect of some aspects of muslim culture...what happens to someone who converts from Islam to another religion...they get punished by death.

I have another book that is good but VERY dry A history of the Arab People by Hourani very straight forward.

Another thing people forget also is the conflict in the area of Israel and Palistine began centuries before. It was originally populated by a majority of the jewish people and was ruled by them for over 1000 years until a series of invasions by other religions and cultures forced the explusion of the jews over a period of the next 1000 years leading up to to our modern times. THe name was even changed to (correct me if I am wrong) Palistine Syria and later shorted to Palistine prior to the 1940s.

Has anyone ever questioned why all the jews have flocked from all over the world to Israel in modern times. It has been going on for the past 100+ due to anti-jewish attacks in Europe and all over the world.

Linda Aikins 7 years, 10 months ago

Sue, men AND women both would agree, I'm guessing!

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

boldaq - Who should get responsibility for this debacle? History will blame the correct culprits...

Also, it's thinking like this that would still have us in Vietnam...

If anyone deserves jail, it would be the shrub... He lied to get us into this war and they want to make anyone opposed to his war crimes some sort of enemy...

I think it's real simple... They should pull voter registrations and anybody that voted for the toxic texan should get drafted... But then cowards don't make up a very good fighting force so surely the fighting would stop sooner rather than later which in my book, is a good thing...

Our soldiers dying so that Iran can have control of the region is not a good justification for me...

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

so that we can round out our day with a wholesome recipe: Lemon curd: 1 tablespoon plus 2 teaspoons finely grated fresh lemon zest 1 cup fresh lemon juice 1 1/3 cups sugar 4 large eggs 1 3/4 sticks (3/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons) unsalted butter, cut into tablespoon pieces

Whisk together zest, lemon juice, sugar, eggs, and a pinch of salt in a 2-quart heavy saucepan. Add butter all at once and cook over moderately low heat, whisking constantly, until curd is thick enough to hold marks of whisk and first bubbles appear on surface, about 10 minutes. Immediately pour curd through a fine sieve into a bowl, then chill, covered.

Cooks' note: ยข Lemon curd keeps, covered and chilled, 1 week. Makes about 3 cups.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Murtha did not take the bribe but said he might be interested in the future.

PRoblem with this type of war is it will move from country to country and it has no boundaries. In the US it will be termed as a criminal act by a "disturbed" individual (who may just happen to be muslim and used hate speak) or a group of individuals who were just ripping off gas stations and liquor stores to get money that was going to be used to fund their jihad...but they had not yet.

This is never going away period and those cowards you speak of will have their chance to fight here, but most likely they will be victims of a "crime" rather than a terrorist act. And one thing you can count onis the MEDIA will be all over it to sell papers and they will do the same lack luster fact checking that has been rampant in the last 20 years.

Lifelong_Lawrencian 7 years, 10 months ago

You guys are way to hard on Bush. I recently found a list of some of his noteworthy accomplishments.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Politicians/Bush_accomplishments.html

Alfred E. Newman would have made a better president.

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

"boldaq - Who should get responsibility for this debacle? History will blame the correct culprits..."

If left tothe devices of you useful idiots, there won't be any more "history". If we don't fight back, you'll be just as dead as the rest of us.

"Also, it's thinking like this that would still have us in Vietnam..."

Remember the bloodbath when the lefties cut and ran from Nam? Over three million Vietnamese and Cambodians were slaughtered. Democrats knew it would happen and didn't care. This time, our enemies won't stop with the Iraqui's. They'll be coming for you. How many times do they have to attack us before you'll fight back?

"Our soldiers dying so that Iran can have control of the region is not a good justification for me..."

Talk about spin. I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that little gem.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

boldaq - So dismiss history... That will get you NOWHERE... Boy, you are the embodiment of the right wing tool... Damn the torpedos because who cares about history?? Apparently the administration does because they are in the process of attempting to rewrite it... Good LUCK...

Yes, there will be a bloodbath WHEN we eventually leave but I'd like to do it when our death toll numbers are in the three thousands, not the over 50K we let die in Vietnam.... Yes, there'll be a bloodbath but as long as it's not our blood, who cares?? Oh, that's right, I do... I don't want more death, you obviously do....

NEWSFLASH.... Iran is already in firm control of the entire region... They're in charge in Lebanon, Syria, and now Iraq... We've done more for Iran than we'd like but denying the obvious.... well... I guess is par for course for the right wing goosesteppers...

Like I said, if you support the war so much, GO SERVE.... They'll take you... Hell, they'll take anybody... Let me guess, you'd rather pull a bush cheerleader roll from the sidelines.... Talk about spineless....

jonas 7 years, 10 months ago

"If left tothe devices of you useful idiots, there won't be any more "history". If we don't fight back, you'll be just as dead as the rest of us."

You're one of those people that think this is the most dangerous enemy we've ever encountered, aren't you?

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

lemon kurds strawberry shiites orange sunnis

I want Hillary Clinton to become president just so boldaq's head will finally implode with loathing of liberals.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Bea - good laugh there. Monkey - agree with all you said re Muslims. Yes death to those who leave the one true faith. Thanks for the suggestion of the book. My husband says soon I will know more about muslims than most muslims that I think is one of the problems with Islam. Too many muslims do not really know what the Qu'ran says. But it is the same with a lot of people who call themselves Christian. Many are so ignorant of the Bible. I used to attend a "Christian" church. The minister told me that there were 2 people in the church who read the Bible and since I did, I presumed that he was the other.

lounger 7 years, 10 months ago

I don't think Bush is nearly as smart as blair and twice as stubborn so I really don't think it will add up to anything. It will however give people such as myself ( and the growing number of anti war peeps) fuel to use as another example of how Bush is disregarding the MAJORITY of the american people's opinion on this matter.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

...Because the majority opinion is always the right one.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Sgt... It seems to be... Don't you know that everything popular is good? Look at American Idol.... LOL....

Actually, doing the will of the MAJORITY of the Americans is what the government is SUPPOSED to do... Too bad they don't get it when it comes it illegal immigration and the war...

Throw them all out....

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

BTW, I did serve in ODS with some Brits that were stationed right outside of an airbase with me... We are about 15 miles from Iraq and about 10 miles from Kuwait in Saudi Arabia... They could get booze... We had the women, they had the drink... It was a very nice arrangement... I even traded uniforms on night with one of them... Very cool dudes...

Here's a Scottish chap that ate lunch with us... My main regret is that I didn't take the picture with his beret on... It had this cool little feather thing on it...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/mortuus/Operation%20Desert%20Storm/lunchguest.jpg

RonBurgandy 7 years, 10 months ago

Continuing on oh jayhawks question...

How do you become a "cheese specialist"? I am extremely curious because I like cheese.

I wonder if it is the next level up from "cheese analyst."

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

I really should have added a disclaimer that my comment wasn't intended as any sort of commentary on the war. Just commentary on the notion that a majority opinion is a good reason for anything. Lounger disparaged Bush for going against the majority opinion; I think that lacks substance.

That's all.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

MS An interesting statistic approximately 75% of the muslim world has not read the Quran becasue it is in Clasical Arabic and the literacy rate in many of the Third World countries that are muslim can not read so the interpretations come from the religious leaders.

Another misconception is the Quran is primarily a peace based book. It is a dualistic. One section on religion and the other is political. Only 3% of the Quran refers to jihad as an internal spirtual struggle the other 97% is related to war which is in the political section of the Quran.

Also many of the references to peace, love and fair play is directed to other muslims NOT Kafirs (non-believers).

IRan has its hands in everything but they are not in total control. Sadr had to boogy from Iraq which tells me the coalition and Iraqi forces are getting too close to taking things into hand. And if you think Prince Harry would be sent in a really hostile area where his head could be shown all over the Terrorist internet if captured you are nuts.

There are lots of threats in the world, but this form of threat has been the most reoccuring.

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

The Quran and the Bible were both written by people who believed the earth was flat.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

ANother problem you are seeing in the IRaq war is morderate muslims who want the change to occur are being targeted by hard liners who say they arn't muslim enough if they stand against other muslims. The QUran even has passages that say they should be struck down as if they are non muslims.

a ref for my percentages:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=26769

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Gootsie - No, but I can see a resemblance...

Maybe Conan O'Brien's dad was a travelling salesman... LOL...

sgtwolverine 7 years, 10 months ago

Bea, honest question: how many people back then believed the earth was round?

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

Check out our president -- he is playing dress-up again today. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Bush.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Regarding the flat-earth comment, I agree that it is a debatable topic, as any quick google search will show you. Certainly the Bible mentions the "four corners of the earth," and the "ends of the earth." And we know from writings that the ancient Greeks believed in a flat earth.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Sen_fudge - are you sweet as candy? Great pics.

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

TOB, (1:38) why are you telling people that already know? Seems a waste of time, but what do I know?

Ms_C, candy is dandy...liquor is quicker...but morphine is our friend. Sorry, I couldn't come up w/ a rhyme. :(

Linda Aikins 7 years, 10 months ago

Great pics, Sen! Thanks for sharing!

Now we know what another BIG OTS! poster looks like!

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

"NEWSFLASH.... Iran is already in firm control of the entire region.." - sen fudge

Now, you're beginning to understand the problem. And your solution? Run! Does it even bother you that the first nuke off their assembly line has Israels name on it? Guess where the second one is coming? Or, are you like jonas, pretending Ahmadinejad doesn't mean what he says?

You leftwing whackos would be hilarious if you weren't so dangerous.

sunflower_sue 7 years, 10 months ago

Py, you sure know how to make Cheez Wiz and Ritz sound fancy! Would you cater my next dinner party?

drewdun 7 years, 10 months ago

"You leftwing whackos would be hilarious if you weren't so dangerous"

Yeah, what with us starting unwinnable wars and such.

Moron.

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

It can be won as long as people don't follow the hollywood model of winning a war...ie 10 navy seals who are so bad ass they can take on a pursuing army of 5000 bad guys and win in a couple days even with a village of men women and children in tow through a thick jungle (Tears of the Sun ref.).

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

You know about this darn business in Iraq and especially Iran. Amadinajad is a Shiite and a firm believer in the Mahdi, the Messiah of the Shiites. He believes that the Mahdi will be returning to earth from his long occultation to reign forever with Jesus and will establish justice and true spirituality on the earth with rule by the one and only true religion, Islam. So why would he need nuclear weapons or nuclear power for that matter. Don't know what I am talkng about? Just google Mahdi and you will find out. Recently reported on Al Jazeera, the popularity of Mahmoud Amadinajad is waning in Iran. His people are living in poverty and unemployment and he spends millions and millions on a shrine in the middle of nowhere. If the Bush admin had any sense they would just let the situation in Iran resolve itself and not interfer. But of course they know best, don't they?

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

" So why would he need nuclear weapons or nuclear power for that matter." -

Check with Amadinajad, he's the one who said it.

"If the Bush admin had any sense they would just let the situation in Iran resolve itself and not interfer. But of course they know best, don't they?"

You mean, sit back and see if they nuke us? And what is plan B after that? I'm sure the Bush admin thinks it's a bad idea and will take action.

The least democrats could do is stay out of the way while we defend ourselves.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Amadinajad has no plans to nuke the west, none at all. He might be a little nutty but he is not stupid. He has not the power or the means to start a war with the west. He wants control for Allah of the Middle East and to hell with the west. Allah will take care of them.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

faceit - oh don't worry, I can handle the pain killers. The question is can GWB handle Iran? He can't even handle Iraq and Afganistan.

Sen_Fudgepack 7 years, 10 months ago

Where to begin??

Thanks for all the kind comments about the pics. MS_Canada - My name is homage to Sen Brownback.... When I hear his name, I think of Fudgepack for some reason...

Boldaq- I don't know where to begin with you... First of all, I'm not a 'leftwing whacko'... I'm about as down the middle as you can get... I voted for Reagan and Bush Sr.... I have voted democratic since but that's mainly because of my experiences with ODS... I own lots of guns and have more conservative core values than 'liberal' ones... Too bad the current administration has hijacked the term 'conservative' (their hardly conservative...)

The shrub always scared me and if it wasn't for the supreme court, we would have avoided this entire Iraq mess... We'd still be in Afghanistan but I think much of the world would still be behind us if that was just the case... I also think we'd have had much more progress if our troops were there in numbers to finally stomp out the Taliban... Who knows, they kicked Russia's butt so that could be a quagmire too but I'd like to think more troops there would have helped....

As far as the rest of your tirades, I'm just going to summarize... I think Iran just wants the nuclear capability because we've proven we treat countries much differently when they have one... Who wouldn't want that bargaining power? Do they plan on attacking someone with one?? Hardly.... They would be piledrived back into the stone age if they attempted that... They like their IPODS and halter tops as much as the next person... It will never happen but the ability to instantly have respect is something any country would want... They're just trying to guarantee their security like the next guy...

PS... I'm only on here during work... So if I disappear after 3:30, that's why...

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 10 months ago

Agno

The hollywood ref was for those who think something like this can be done in a tight little two movie line plot. If you read some of my other posts you would see I agree this is a long term run in Iraq and where ever else pops up in the future.

As far as not finding Osama bin Laden...The US can't find fugitives in the US how do you think they can find a guy in a foreign country where the general public are scared of reprecutions for cooperating with a Kahfir (US) from the Taliban. Many of these people know what the Taliban are capable of don't you recall the mass executions on soccer fields when they were in charge. Plus they are posting beheadings adn worst on all the websites.

Russians getting their butts kicked by them in Afganistan...yeah but one of the misconceptions about the Russian military is that they were one of the best. Their special forces are very good but their general ground forces were not very well trained. For the most part they rarely even did shooting training due to the cost of ammunition.

A good book to read on the subject is Terror at Beslan by John Giduck. He investigated the incident after the terrorists took over and the battle ensued. Due to the lack of trust by the different divisions of government they all have their own private armies to protect themselves from other branches. I saw him speak once and he was very good. He had some amazing video found at captured Chechen terrorist bases. It makes the Berg video seem like nothing.

ms_canada 7 years, 10 months ago

Boldaq - I might ask you, what do you know about Ahmadinajad? Do you know of his belief in the immenante return of the Imam Mahdi? Do you know that he believes that The Mahdi will return along with Jesus within the next 4 or 5 years and that they will reign over the entire world and will bring about true spirituality and justice? Do you know that he believes that they will destroy all infidels who refuse to declare their faith in Allah? Do you know about the conditions in Iran and the poverty and unemployment there? Do you know that the people of Iran are quickly turning against Mahmoud? What do you know about Ayatollah Khameini? Do you think that his patience with Ahmadinejad will last forever? Khameini will never allow the President to attack America. Israel, perhaps. but the US, never.

Monkey fella, very good post.

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

" I'm about as down the middle as you can get... " - sen fudge.

That's your problem. There's only the Right, the Left and the Uninformed. Most who identify themselves as "Independent" are in the LWW anyway.

"It will never happen..."

Thank God. Have you alerted the Pentagon and given them your assurance?

boldaq 7 years, 10 months ago

"Khameini will never allow the President to attack America. Israel, perhaps. but the US, never." - ms canada

Well, at least you conceed that they're crazy enough to attack Israel. Fudgepack thinks they just want nukes to power their microwaves and that they're really nice guys.

If you think Khameni is a reasonable guy who disagrees with Ahmadinejad, you probably also believe Yassar Arafat was really trying to stop the Palestinians from making bombs out of their children and sending them over to ride the bus in Israel.

And the democrat's strategy? "Let's surrender and maybe they'll leave us alone." Whistling past the graveyard.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.