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Do you think fluoride should be added to public water sources?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on August 11, 2007

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Photo of Debbie Smith

“Absolutely, because it’s very important for the enamel on your teeth. It helps lower the long-term costs of health care.”

Photo of Aaron Butell

“I always thought it was good for your teeth. But if there are enough people out there saying that it’s not, then I think the government needs to allocate some resources to determine if they should or not.”

Photo of Ashley Langford

“I guess it depends on how bad the potential negative side effects are and whether they outweigh the positive effects.”

Photo of Ken Campbell

“I don’t know why it shouldn’t. I’ve never known anyone who has been negatively affected by it.”

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Comments

Danny_4 7 years, 3 months ago

Dumping diluted Toxic Industrial Litter into Drinking-Water Supply is sheer Lunacy. As Ratepayers, people have a basic right to a safe & clean supply! There are Indeed Negative Health Impacts from such Insane Practice. What does one expect from a Toxic Waste? No Thanks!

Nys Cof 7 years, 3 months ago

Many people have been harmed from fluoride. Read "Fluoridation: The Great Dilemma," by a distinguished KU retired professor, Albert Burgstahler, PhD.

It should not be so hard to believe that some people are allergic to or intolerant of fluoride. We all know that people can be sensitive to many "normal" things like milk and peanuts. Why should fluoride be any different. In fact, it's adverse effects and/or side effects are listed in the Physicians' Desk Reference - which lists side effects of most drugs. A major problem is that fluoride is attached to politics and most physicians have not been trained to discern fluoride's adverse effects.

Here are some here: http://www.fluorideaction.net/health

Find out more Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof

Fluoridation News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

Tooth Decay Crises in Fluoridated Areas http://www.fluoridenews.blogspot.com/

Fluoride Action Network http://www.FluorideAction.Net

Fluoride Journal http://www.FluorideResearch.Org

Stew 7 years, 3 months ago

A simple question requiring no education is how does one regulate the amount needed for individuals. For example, if a toddler and an adult drink the same size glass of water is the amount of flouride in the water the right concentration for each individual. A question that does require some education is does the flouride interact with other chemicals in the diet of the indivual which could lead to future problems.

conservativepunker 7 years, 3 months ago

Commie Plot! Commie Plot! Come on folks, people have been freaking about flouridated water since the 1950s.......

nbnozzy 7 years, 3 months ago

I've been drinking Lawrence's flourinated water since 1971 and my teeth are in great shape. I do know a lot of farm and rural people who have used well water for as many years and now have rotted teeth or are now wearing dentures. I do believe the benefits of flouride in the drinking water vastly outweigh any negative side effects.

Bill Chapman 7 years, 3 months ago

As I have stated before, EVERY THING is toxic! The level of use needed to harm/ kill is what determines the lethality of the toxin. I do believe that the inclusion of fluoride in water should be stopped though. There are many different types of fluoride and even chemically pure elements have different isotopes that can change how they will effect a person's health. I also do not like the big brother attitude that is behind the fluoridation idea. The idea is: fluoride has (supposedly) been proven to be good for dental health, so by adding it to city water systems will help the public's' dental health.

My question is though, fluoride may be good for the teeth, but is it good for the rest of the body?

Also, could fluoride be a substance that has long term problems when built up in body tissues? There was an article in Discover magazine about the way chemicals could interact with mice; the chemicals could "turn on" or "turn off" genetic cues that would cause changes in the mices' offspring. Specifically, the mice used were mice bred to be obese and diabetic, with the introduction of certain chemicals into a pregnant mouses' food, the offspring of the mouse were no longer had diabetic OR obese tendencies. This study was limited to mice, but what if humans had similar trigger chemicals? How many of the current diseases are due to something our parents ate before we were born? With the amount of chemical additives in food today I'm almost scared to eat any sort of packaged food.

BigDog 7 years, 3 months ago

If you go to websites that are opposed to fluoride in water ...... wow you find out why they are opposed. For every website that talks of the dangers of fluoride there is a website that speaks of the benefits.

Why is it that most dentists are in support of fluoride in water? Are they conspiring against us? I would talk to your dentist about the benefits and possible dangers of fluoride ......... unless they are in on this big conspiracy too.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

I think they should add a hint of lemon to the water.

What's with the four million OTS questions today? http://www2.ljworld.com/onthestreet/

BigDog 7 years, 3 months ago

sgtwolverine

How about a hint of rum? We might be a happier society then ....... its worth a try.

Ceallach 7 years, 3 months ago

flouride? I'm with the Nobel winner, it's obsolete. Also, sgt, lemon is so "yesterday" . . . it should be a hint of lime, donchaknow :) It doesn't matter to me, I don't drink Lawrence water unless there is no bottled or filtered option. I find little comfort in reading the city's little pamphlets, conveniently enclosed in my bill, about all the govt requirements they are meeting.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Ceal, don't you remember? You put the lime in the Coke! Besides, even if lemon is "yesterday," it's also "tomorrow," because that lime thing is just a passing fad. Lemon is a classic.

Thanks, prospector.

Godot 7 years, 3 months ago

Wouldn't it be ironic if it were determined that the buildup of flouride in the body contributes to weight gain?

Nys Cof 7 years, 3 months ago

Fluoride ingestion has never been evaluated by the Food an Drug Administration See: http://fluoridedangers.blogspot.com/2005/12/fluoride-never-fda-approved-for.html

Water fluoride chemicals are contaminated waste products of phosphate fertilizer manufacturing and are allowed to contain trace amounts of arsenic, lead, mercury and more See: http://www.nsf.org/business/water_distribution/pdf/NSF_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Water fluoride chemicals have never been safety tested by any government or private agency See: http://www.fluoridealert.org/images/letters/EPA-Masters.jpg

canyon_wren 7 years, 3 months ago

I am opposed to fluoridation of public water supplies. The money saved could be used to provide fluoride tablets free to people and families who believe fluoride is beneficial. What a waste to put it in water that will be used on lawns, in toilets, laundry, etc.!

I personally believe that the medical/dental community will be forced to acknowledge its ultimate harm. Big Dog, you ask why most dentists recommend it? For the same reason that for years every doctor almost insisted that women approaching menopause should be taking hormones. It's no secret that a lot of doctors receive "rewards" for recommending certain drugs, etc. Doctors finally have had to acknowledge that the hormone therapy caused cancer. The same thing will happen with some (if not all) statins, which some studies show that, rather than preventing Alzheimer's, are contributing to its increase. The medical/dental community doesn't know everything--they don't claim to, of course, but it takes a lot of time for them to admit that what seems good in early usage turns out to be very negative in its long-term effect.

Health issues aside, the sheer economic waste of putting fluoride in public drinking water makes it ridiculous. Since so many people are buying bottled water now; let the marketers sell a selection with fluoride in it for those who think it is so great.

Ceallach 7 years, 3 months ago

Godot, so I can eat a blizzard without guilt because its the blasted flouride that's the problem? Oh, I guess that won't work cuz I just posted that I seldom drink the water : Me and my big mouth . . or would that be finger tips?

Py, thanks for the update, I do soooo strive to be counted among the "cool." Bruising the lavender buds seems a little too violent for me, but if that's what it takes . . .

compmd 7 years, 3 months ago

The millions of people who aren't sick and dying from fluoridation and the fact that fluoridation is also a natural phenomenon should say something.

I personally believe that a handful of people with lawyers are not smarter or better informed than thousands of doctors and scientists that

1) know chemistry better than others 2) know biology better than others.

Glad to see the tinfoil hat brigade is in full force today. I'm going to have a nice big glass of ice water. From the tap. BE AFRAID!

farmgal 7 years, 3 months ago

nbnozzy, my family & I grew up drinking well water w/o any floride added. We all have great teeth. No false teeth in our family so far. And only a couple of small cavities over decades. It's about eating right, taking care of your teeth & genetics. No floride for me, please.

Ceallach 7 years, 3 months ago

Py, All that releasing volatile oils and fulfilling destinies . . . we're still talking about lavender buds, right? :P

compmd 7 years, 3 months ago

Machiavelli_mania (Anonymous) says:

Europe does not flouridate. Hmmm!

Europe also does not put high fructose corn syrup into everything imaginable.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 7 years, 3 months ago

I've read: a -that the reason we have flouride in our drinking water is because several industries (aluminum production, fertilizer production, nuclear industry) produce prodigious quantities of this non-degrading toxin. -that the original studies on putting flouride in drinking wat showed that the control city had more tooth decay and less cancer. -that topical treatment of the teeth is far better than drinking this toxin, hence the fact that your dentist doesn't just hand out flouride pills. -that most toothpates now have flouride, in fact, some supposedly have enough so that one tube could conceivably kill a small child. That's probably a stretch. I've read here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch59.html "The mobilization, the national clamor for fluoridation, and the stamping of opponents with the right-wing kook image, was all generated by the public relations man...Ewing hired none other than Edward L. Bernays, the man with the dubious honor of being called the "father of public relations." Bernays, the nephew of Sigmund Freud, was called "The Original Spin Doctor" in an admiring article in the Washington Post... The fact that right-wing groups such as the John Birch Society correctly called fluoridation "creeping socialism" ... was used by the Bernaysians to discredit all the opposition. ...(Bette Hileman, "Fluoridation of Water," Chemical and Engineering News 66 [August 1, 1988], p. 37; quoted in Griffiths, p. 63) In his 1928 book Propaganda, Bernays laid bare the devices he would use: Speaking of the "mechanism which controls the public mind," which people like himself could manipulate, Bernays added that "Those who manipulate the unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country...our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of..." And the process of manipulating leaders of groups, "either with or without their conscious cooperation," will "automatically influence" the members of such groups.

In describing his practices as PR man for Beech-Nut Bacon, Bernays tells how he would suggest to physicians to say publicly that "it is wholesome to eat bacon." For, Bernays added, he "knows as a mathematical certainty that large numbers of persons will follow the advice of their doctors because he (the PR man) understands the psychological relationship of dependence of men on their physicians." (Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda [New York: Liveright, 1928], pp. 9, 18, 49, 53. Quoted in Griffiths, p.63) Add "dentists" to the equation, and substitute "fluoride" for "bacon," and we have the essence of the Bernays propaganda campaign.

Before the Bernays campaign, fluoride was largely known in the public mind as the chief ingredient of bug and rat poison; after... as a safe provider of healthy teeth and gleaming smiles."

SloMo 7 years, 3 months ago

My teeth are grayish-brown and pitted from over-fluoridation of our water supply when I was an infant. The technical term is "fluorosis". It isn't like tetracycline stains that are superficial, the staining goes all the way through and the pitting is really deep.

Because of the pitting, it is very difficult to keep my teeth clean enough. I have to go to the hygeinist four times a year instead of the standard two times (and I have to pay for the two extra times out of my own pocket).

So how much is too much? Well, someone hit upon it in an earlier post - it depends on the individual.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 3 months ago

NO!!! Read the history and you can clearly see the chain of events.

All the children living in a town near Pikes Peak with a lot of CALCIUM fluoride in their water had brown, "mottled", stained teeth. (Yuck, right?) An investigation of the "Colorado Stain" revealed that they had very high fluoride concentration in their water from the cryolite mineral in the ground. The fluoride was blamed for the staining and suspected of causing other health problems and physical deformities.

The brown, stained teeth also had fewer cavities than others' normal teeth. This was also attributed to the fluoride, but deemed positive!!

After blaming "severe fluorosis" for the staining, scientists tried to determine a safe maximum fluoride level for water. Somehow, though, at the same time, they determined that some areas with low fluoride levels needed MORE, to prevent cavities. ???

From a report to the the Surgeon General made in 1932:

"Is mottled enamel merely an oral manifestation of a general toxicity, or something similar? The hair of some of these mottled enamel cases is unusually coarse, almost like horse hair. Finger nails are apparently not normal. Two of the three local physicians state that there is apparently an unusually large amount of skin disorders among those using the city water supply. Future surveys will attempt to obtain this additional dermatological data in order to determine whether it correlates with the mottled enamel."

No 'further surveys' were conducted to follow this up. Dean's later studies were even abandoned after early data indicated that completing the surveys could not be considered safe for those being tested.

A fluoridation survey was conducted in Amarillo, TX in the 30s. A pediatrician of Amarillo, Texas, reported in 1934 that "defective development of the long bones in babies whose diet includes water with fluorides in toxic amount". "Some of these babies have more tendency to bowing of the legs, even in the face of constant antirachitic therapy, thus supporting the theory that the toxic fluorides interfere with bone and dental metabolism."

The only part of this survey that was allowed to be published was that Amarillo children and fewer cavities than Wichita Falls children.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 3 months ago

We are taught never to swallow toothpaste. Even if the claims were true, why would we ingest something intended just to rinse a toxic element over our teeth?

Fluoride pollution became rampant due to the industrial expansion of the "Roaring 20s". A highly publicized air pollution disaster occured in 1933 in the Meuse Valley in Belgium. Fluoride experts identified it as the poison agent.

"Only recently, that is, within the last ten years, has the serious nature of fluoride toxicity been realized," wrote Lloyd DeEds, senior toxicologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) in 1933. "It is a well-established fact that chronic intoxication [poisoning] may manifest itself in man as recognized abnormalities only after constant, or at least frequent, exposure over many years....The possibility of fluoride hazard should...be recognized in industry...where this element is discharged into the air as an apparently worthless by-product."

Above quotes from" Lloyd DeEds, "Chronic Fluorine Intoxication," Medicine. Vol. 12, 1933, pp. 1- 60.

In 1939, American Aluminum Company (ALCOA), the largest producer of the industrial waste sodium fluoride, was being threatened with law suits over fluoridation damages. Gerald J. Cox, employed by ALCOA, conducted a lab rat experiment and 'concluded' that fluoride should be added to drinking water. In 1947, Oscar R. Ewing, an ALCOA attorney, was named head of the Federal Security Agency, and thus head of the Public Health Service.

Fluoride was soon added not just to drinking water across the country, but also ended up in fertilizers sprayed on fruits and vegetables.

I.G. Farben, who produced the poison gas used in Nazi death camps, has been attributed with fluoridating water in German and Russian POW camps because of evidence that it lowers IQ, thus making the prisoners easier to control.

Google "fluoride" and you will literally get as much data as you can find time to absorb.

"Fluoridation is the greatest case of scientific fraud of this century." - Robert Carlton, Ph.D, EPA scientist

wynner70 6 years, 3 months ago

It just amazes me the brain dead government school camp inductees (public schools) educated to sucK up and swallow down every chemical, pill, propaganda or scheme that enriches the elite to the detriment and misery of the guy on the street.Wake up AmeriKA. Der fuerher is calling you. FLOURIDE IS A POISEN! What they are putting in the public water is not stanus flouride you get from the dentist (also poisen) but the residue from aluminum processing. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHAT THAT DOES TO YOUR BRAIN AND THE REST OF YOUR BODY?If flouride is so wonderful to medicate public water systems why have all the europeans banned it by law.And why don't MUNICIPALITIES add Vitamin C to the public water???? Or multi Vitamins or herbs and minerals, How would you like some form of "Prozac -Zoloft -Paxil Cocktail" combination.? That would give you a buzz.. No wonder the masters of this deception get away with this crap. You all buy into it.http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/08/19/why-tap-water-can-harm-your-kids.aspx?source=nl NOW GO LEARN WHAT MORE AND MORE "INTELLIGENT" INTERNATIONAL MEDICALS ARE SAYING ABOUT FLOURIDE

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