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Do you agree with the state Legislature in overriding the governor’s veto on the concealed carry law?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on March 24, 2006

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Photo of Greg Stubbers

“Yes, because I believe that studies have shown that the crime rate goes down when the concealed carry law is in effect.”

Photo of Tina Coop

“I kind of have mixed feelings about it. I don’t really see how it could hurt, but then again I don’t think it helps that much either.”

Photo of Craig Barnwell

“I don’t think that’s a good idea. I don’t trust our society to carry guns.”

Photo of Lauren Arnold

“I don’t think we should be able to carry concealed weapons. They should work toward stopping violent crime at the source of the problem.”

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Comments

globehead 2 years ago

Interesting, because ku_law seems to be right here. The Constitution says nothing about using arms to protect ones person or home for that matter but instead to maintain a "well regulated militia" which the Constitution later indicates can be called up to quell civil or foreign disturbances indicating the government could use this militia as IT needed. (Article I, Section 8: " To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.") Additionally, the Federalist Papers do not indicate what the "founding fathers' intended but only the opinions of the few founding fathers who authored the bulk of them. There was no like mind among a great number of these founding fathers making the Constitution a supremely compromise document. There is no preamble to the Federalist Papers making them the supreme law of the land, they are merely individual opinions of a few. Finally, the right to bear arms to protect ourselves from one another is not spoken of in the Constitution but is an opinion rendered by the Supreme Court which is granted the authority to interpret the constitution via what is known as the supremacy clause, Article VI, Section 2 and subsequent court cases not the least of which would be Marbury v. Madison, which solidified the supremacy clause. It is thus THAT section of the Constitution which grants us the right to bear arms against each other outside the local beer joint and the interpretation of the Supreme Court to render the 2nd Amendment as providing for such. TA-DA!

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optimist 8 years ago

ku_law:

Are you seriously that stupid? If you are an example of what KU Law School is producing; we should all be concerned and you should ask for a refund. What exactly is an antiquated amendment? If we were to accept your opinion, which essentially invalidates the 2nd amendment then the entire Bill of Rights being equally as antiquated negates the Constitution as the underpinning of our government.

It might be in your interests to investigate the 2nd amendment. It may be helpful to review the Federalist Papers and other literature available from the period relating to the debate that resulted in the Bill of Rights including the 2nd amendment. What you need is a historical perspective. Without that you have no idea the intent of those who penned the document. You have only your warped sense of what it should be. If we can gut the 2nd amendment because a vocal minority disapproves of it then all other amendments are equally vulnerable.

I further suggest that it is you that lacks any level of intelligence in matters of the law. Just attending law school doesn't make you a lawyer or an expert on the law.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

Hannibal..??? :P.

Besides, it's not me you need to worry about trajectory and range... it's C_V hehehe.

(I go on a date, and you people are talking about me behind my back! LOL)

I'm surprised no one brought up the lighted flag at the church west of town, now there are some targets, and their country neighbors would appreciate it!

The kids next door fire the plastic pellet rifles at each other for fun, one shoots himself, point blank into his thigh and firing...then walks around saying how much that really hurt. He's usually drunk. I have really bright neighbors. (That kid isn't under age..war will do that to you.)

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Hannibal_Lecter 8 years ago

sun_sue, I'll let you pick the lights demise, let's video tape it (no faces of course) and

omb, You definitely know how to invoke "cannon envy". I don't want to hear MD's thoughts on trajectory and range.

Hitme's removed comment re: a "dirty bomb" was disgusting and juvenile...it made me chuckle.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Longest distance shot at something & hit it: about 4200 yards. I was using the 105mm cannon in an M60A1 tank. ;)

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

Hannibal, If you have "security lights in the country" night...I'm sooooo there! Maybe for practice, we can drive by that big spotlight at the gas station on I-70 east of the turnpike, or shall we leave that one for the finale?

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Liberty 8 years ago

How about a good practice firing range in town so people can become a good shot and understand the operation of their firearm.

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militant 8 years ago

What this town needs is a good rent-a-gun shop!

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Hannibal_Lecter 8 years ago

Think I'll open a target range. We'll have different/special targets every night to make it more fun...and the beer will always be the cheapest in town (and 2 for 1 call drinks after 9:00pm).

Special targets:

Spinning Disco ball night. Moving car headlight night Combustible container night Celebrity picture night Donated corpse night Bring your own target night Guess what's in the burlap bag night Homebuilt weapon night Blindfold night

Life is as fun as you make it...Hannibal

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

betti81, I believe I gave kutwitch the benefit of the doubt on her stories. I was merely questioning what her point was. Go back and re-read if you like.

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assistant1234 8 years ago

Posted by ku-law: "The "Right to Bear Arms" does NOT mean citizens have the right to own a gun/bear arms. That is an antiquated Amendment that has absolutely nothing to do with people today having the right to own/conceal/carry a weapon."

The Second Amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

ku-law, please explain how the right to bear arms is not really the right to bear arms, and how a LAW STUDENT can call an amendment ANTIQUATED. If this is what is being taught at law schools then this country is doomed.

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Marion Lynn 8 years ago

"Happiness is a warm gun.

Bang, bang, shoot shoot."

The Beatles

"Happiness Is A Warm Gun".

Thanks.

Marion.

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badger 8 years ago

Very few people need to carry a concealed weapon for any reason. A lot of the people who insist that they 'need' one for protection in case they are walking down a dark street have never actually had any compelling reason to walk or be somewhere dangerous, or do anything that even remotely increases the likelihood that they'll be victims of violent crime.

I think there's a certain class of person that will suddenly find errands on those dark streets as soon as they get the permit. That's the same class of person that takes three karate lessons and then picks a fight in a bar with someone who's got eight inches of height and seventy pounds of muscle more than he does. Sadly, when it's guns and not punches, the results are likely to be more tragic than funny.

However, those people fall into my previously referenced group of the Blame Fool Stupid, and they will not long retain their concealed carry licenses if they fail to display a propensity for learning wisdom with alacrity.

And while few people actually need a concealed weapon because they are exposed to danger regularly, quite a few people would feel more personally secure if they were able to have one 'just in case' the car breaks down (my sister's car once broke down in a bad part of Houston; I think she'd have been glad for a gun. One of the locals called to her, "We done called the po-lice for ya, honey, and tole em you was a white girl so's they'd hurry. You MUST be lost, girl!") or they make a wrong turn and end up lost or any one of fifty other unlikely scenarios comes to pass. I don't see that making them somehow weak, or ruled by fear, or compensating losers with a John Wayne complex.

I see that making them people who take a different approach to personal safety than I do, and having a different philosophy about preparing for self defense.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

A lawyer friend says I'm illegal in a few states. Not saying why!

Same friend used to brag long ago that what he was doing to me in La. was illegal..a state that then, it was legal to drive with a drink in your hand, one headlight out, and the main form of identification was the social security card..that had printed across it "Do NOT use this card as a form of identification!" Ah, those were some fun days.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

14 states have had to register themselves with Chuck Norris.

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Fatty_McButterpants 8 years ago

SgtWolverine: I have heard that martial arts black belts have to register themselves in Colorado...

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Try a refrigerator hand truck beavis!

i wonder what would happen if the women over on the HIV positive inmate article found out about this law..hmmmm. Would they use their concealed weapons to enforce condom use? Wouldn't that take the wind out of some sails?

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Add in the cost of the back injuries you may suffer moving those darn things.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

Well, and then we get into the discussion of the price of enameled steel gun safes at Cabela's...and the resulting divorce rate!!! (Has anyone done a study on those? Good grief ! LOL)

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Hey, I saw that little Kimber Ultra Carry sitting in the display case, looking so lonely & I just had to take it home.......

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

Well, for others, the danger of skydiving all depends on where you land...

But I'm with you on this. Weapons should not be an impulse buy. "Can" does seem to mean "should" to too many people.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

Okay. That does make more sense.

However, it also sounds like something upon which not to rely too heavily, as with crime statistics.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

omb...thanks for the cities info...that's very interesting. I wonder if our commission had a few choice comments to say about that little provision!

sgt...oh, he tried every angle you could imagine, he was molested by his family as a child, he had just moved into town and was starting a new IT company handling BIG situations (LOL), he had been so many situations that I guess he thought would trigger some sort of female response, either arousal, pity, golddigger,admiration, you name it, he must have used 25 different run on stories. I sat there thinking, I REALLY need a video camera of this, or at least a tape recording, this is unbelievable. The sad part, he was physically a 8-9, face was a 7-8 1/2 I don't really remember. He shouldn't have had a problem meeting women, other than I expect he was looking for one nighters. But that come on was a riot. I guess the fact that, being a writer, I wanted to see how much of this garbage he would keep saying, I didn't tell him to go away, so perhaps he thought he had a chance. That or he really liked the b**bs.

As far as the bill goes, if I felt the need to carry, and I have definitely needed to before, I would like the right to do so legally. I used to be a sharpshooter, literally.

I agree with your thinking, there are people who are doing things everyday that should and shouldn't be. Driving, being parents, owning weapons.Drinking. Having sex. Drinking and having sex LOL. Sitting on the city commission! I plan to skydive this summer, do I need to? No. Risky? Somewhat, but does it endanger others? No. Some choices need to be rethought. Because you CAN, doesn't mean you should.

I write because I hope I can discourage some from going out to buy impulse weapons they really don't need.

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betti81 8 years ago

yes wolverine, by unreported, i do not mean undocumented. some are cases where the assualt is not reported to the police, but months/years later are confessed/documented. por ejemplo a person is assualted at age 18 but doesn't tell anyone except their therapist years down the road. this is also the case with many assualts of minors. of course it is all an estimate. (hence why i did not use specific numbers)

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

"more rapes/sexual assualts go unreported than reported. (CJ 101)"

I can see how that would be true, but at the same time I'm wondering how we actually know how many are going unreported if they're unreported. Do you see why I'm a little confused by that statement?

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betti81 8 years ago

carry/conceal: sounds like an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" type of thing to me.

just a bit of advice, don't rely too heavily on crime statistics. many crimes carry/conceal would "prevent" are the types of crimes that often go unreported (rape, assault, robbery, etc). more rapes/sexual assualts go unreported than reported. (CJ 101)

also any criminal justice teacher will be the first to tell you that while the fbi statistics can be useful, the system is flawed. the reason: if more than one crime is committed at the same time, por ejemplo robbery and kidnapping, only the "highest" of the crimes is recorded to the database (in this i believe it is kidnapping). result: flawed database. argue the reasoning for this system all you want, but it is inherently flawed.

and my final thought...as a former bank teller, this opportunity brings bad visions to my head. i am so thankful this law was not inacted when i was robbed. while my robber presented no weapon(but he was insane), what if he had and some law abiding citizen had pulled out their legally concealed weapon and started a stand-off? sounds a bit over the top, i know but this creates this opportunity. (i believe said citizen in same situation before law would have kept the gun concealed to avoid the trouble). banks practice 'do what the robber says' for a reason, it works and helps keep employees and customers safe.

oh--and sunflower_sue, kutwitch's stories are all true, look them up in the wichita eagle if you want to check. (the "throw your signs up" song was a major problem for gang units for sometime)

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Liberty 8 years ago

Ku_law,

Perhaps you can explain to everyone how the Constitution does not apply to them anymore. I will give you a hint. It has to do with your political status. Now we will see how smart you think you are.

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thomgreen 8 years ago

Oh, and I'm a "liberal".

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thomgreen 8 years ago

Hey, the Granada is not a nasty club. It's pretty much the best venue in town to see a concert. And the staff there is awesome. Including them in the same sentence as Last Call is a downright insult. Now, being a former licensed concealed weapon carrier in a different state, I've seen both sides of the law. I don't think there is anything wrong with having the law, as long as proper controls are in place.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

kuy-law, maybe you should learn the law before you start dismissing parts of the Bill of Rights as 'antiquated'.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

"At some point you would probably be justified in laughing at home."

Wow, I'm bright today. I meant laughing at HIM. You need no justification to laugh at home!

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

MD, the bill prohibits cities from passing laws to restrict what a permit holder can do. It's on page 11 of the pdf. Regarding private businesses that choose to prohibit legal carry, I can think of only two places I've seen in Houston where carry would be legal that are posted. I choose to take my business elsewhere.

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ku_law 8 years ago

gphawk89-

If you leave your gun in your car, it is broken into and stolen, and subsequently use for a crime...you are likely not going to be liable. Learn the law before you continue to talk like you know what you're talking about.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

Multi, a guy used that line seriously on you? My goodness. I want to burst out laughing! My friend says it as a joke (and he once misspoke and said "My body is a whole weapon," to which we responded, "It may be only a fraction of a weapon"). But I guess if it's going to be used anywhere, it would be in a bar...

At some point you would probably be justified in laughing at home. It might even be compassionate, as he might realize that he sounds utterly ridiculous.

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gphawk89 8 years ago

When Missouri passed CC a couple of years back, I was one of the first to rush out and get the required training, a permit, and a holster. Guess how many times I have actually carried? Zero. None. The problem here is (and undoubtedly will be in KS as well) the long list of places you're prohibited to carry (plus most private businesses will post their own "no guns" signs). So you basically can't take your concealed weapon to any place where it might be needed. And you can't leave it in your car (car gets broken into - your gun stolen - your gun used to commit a crime - guess who's liable?). So the gun stays locked up at home. The only winners here are sign manufacturers who will be receiving zillioins of orders for "no guns" signs.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

rhd, what I'm saying is that you seem to be assuming a negative effect from this law. I'm assuming an innocuous effect -- I really don't think it'll make a big difference one way or another. If you're going to assume a negative effect, then you should explain exactly why, and not just say it's a piece of crap.

Multi, there are a lot of careless, irresponsible people who own guns. It's sad. I think there are a lot of people who should never own a gun; if they're buying a gun just because they can, then they should go right back home empty-handed.

But I also think those people should not be compared to those who are unquestionably responsible with their guns. Just like those who are irresponsible while behind the wheel are not comparable to those who are responsible behind the wheel. Accidents occur with any tool, and on their own they are not an argument against that tool.

That said, I don't think this law itself is about access to or possession of guns; it's about carrying guns. In all these state-by-state stats I would be interested to see if gun ownership increased after the passing of a concealed carry license.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

Don't you imagine the next city move will be to have a no concealed weapons in the city limits?

Signs at every entrance to town?

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ku_law 8 years ago

Liberty,

Don't be dumb.

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Liberty 8 years ago

Just think about this... If you get a permission slip from the government when you already have a right, you acknowledge their jurisdiction over you because you volunteered to sign up for a 'government benefit'. You also are essentially registering your firearm with the State of Kansas government, which is the federal government extended. I would not reccommend revealing this info unless you plan on making yourself a future known target of a gun confiscation.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

sgtwolverine...a man in the bar was once using the "I'm trained to use my body as a weapon...superhero, military routine"..pickup line one night. Do you have any idea how hard it is to sit there trying to politely listen to that stuff...while inside I'm laughing so hard I'm about to fall off of the chair?:D Needless to say, he got no where with me.

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ku_law 8 years ago

Crohan,

The "Right to Bear Arms" does NOT mean citizens have the right to own a gun/bear arms. That is an antiquated Amendment that has absolutely nothing to do with people today having the right to own/conceal/carry a weapon.

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rhd99 8 years ago

Sigmund, accidental shootings happen, that's the point. Fine, it's your funeral.

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Multidisciplinary 8 years ago

Day before yesterday someone had the 2003 (latest available) stats on here, that included suicides. Suicides are the highest, quite higher than murder. (If I get a chance I'll try to back track an find them for you.) I wasn't surprised. Another thing the same officer sue was quoting me about told me. Women always overestimate the deadliness of pills, and underestimate the deadliness of a weapon. If you're going to kill yourself, make sure it's final, awfully embarrassing to end up a half mess, or just fine.

C_V...take your camera phone with you next time! Just kidding :D

TOB...don't they saw the ends off those anymore? Maybe you could buy the jr variety. Those are good if you need to be sure you can reach the trigger from the other end and you have short arms.

I only caught part of Trigger Happy on IFC last night, I should probably see all of it before recommending it, but I think it made a lot of good points, very timely.

The bad part of this....more weapons in homes...children..I think of Barkley and Faria Clark"s most wonderful son. I met him once, and he was honestly the most impressive young man I've ever met.His going to a friend's house...in seconds, gone...such a tragedy.

Classmates...accidents..Dad was cleaning his weapon, thought it was unloaded, and his grown son, suddenly dead in front of him.

A person I dated, their whole family of young men and dad,hunters..the front closet full of unlocked weapons, bullets laying out on the carpet as the door opens, toddlers in the house.

People are stupid....and make mistakes...do we need more weapons in homes, cars, purses? I bet before a woman is saved, one's child shoots it's sibling. I bet one dad looses his child, just because he wanted to carry.

When a child dies, the whole family dies people. The parents, the brothers and sisters. Divorce. Depression,sibling suicides.Drug abuse.

Think before you run out and buy. Burying your own children isn't something you want to think about the rest of your life.

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crohan1978 8 years ago

The constitution says you have a right to own arms, but for some reason, when the constitution says this, all the libs are against it, but when it comes to supposed gay rights, you say the constitution protects them. So what, we just apply the constitution when it fits the argument? I'm confused?? Maybe some of you left wing crazies can explain it to me.

Please do not get me wrong, I am not for owning any kind of weapon, no assault weapons, etc. And yes, many studies have been done in places where the concealed gun law is in effect, and the crime rates have fallen. Cops obviously do not like them, because they believe it brings more risks to their job, because they have to assume everyone has a gun now. If the concealed gun law is enforced properly, there shouldn't be any serious issues. Proper background checks, licenses, etc are good enough

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wonderhorse 8 years ago

"Where does law enforcement play into this, since we're taking the law into our own hands?"

I guess I'll have to go back and reread the law. I missed the part where it said for us to take the law into our own hands.

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

Hmmm. Great Britain with some if not the most restrictive handgun laws in the world, has one of the highest violent crime rates per capita in the world. (Way higher than the U.S.) Vermont doesn't even require a license to carry concealed. Where are all the "Dodge City" stories from that corner of the U.S.? Just look up Great Britain crime rate.

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rhd99 8 years ago

One more thing, sgtwolverine, the burden of proof starts with this LEGISLATURE, not me. What information did they have that proves this law is safe for Kansas?

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Sigmund 8 years ago

How many accidental shootings occur because of conceal carry laws? How many crimes will be avoided because of concealed carry? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? What if its a really big pin? No one knows and frankly it doesn't matter. Criminals can and will carry concealed guns and the law abiding adults should have a right to defend themselves. If one women is able to prevent a rape and another is accidently shot and killed by someone legally carrying concealed, it will make no difference to my position.

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rhd99 8 years ago

sgtwolverine, how does this new law help law enforcement protect us? Where does law enforcement play into this, since we're taking the law into our own hands?

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

warpony, glad all went well. Couldn't they have asked you that whole wisdom tooth ? before yesterday? (Guess they've all had their "wisdom" teeth removed. snark) OK, even I thought that was bad!

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

rhd, with that demand I think you are under at least an equal obligation to demonstrate that this legislation will be harmful to Kansas. Its effects may end up being positive, innocuous or negative, but if you so firmly believe it will harm Kansas, then you should be able to show everyone why you believe it's such an egregious law.

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

c_v, You really made me regret my decision not to become a sports reporter with locker room access!:*(

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kcwarpony 8 years ago

Yes, but only if bullets are made illegal.

Hey, sun_sue, thanks for thinking of me yesterday. Hope your kidlet is doing well, this being the day after. I got all the work done. They told me I did great and how beautiful my teeth look and then when I was all nice and happy, just about ready to trot on out, they asked if I wanted to have my wisdom teeth removed!? I asked "Why? Is there a problem??'' They said, "no":thought brushing my teeth would be easier if I didn't have to worry about reaching those back teeth!! I thought they were joking, they're not:I told them the insurance was going to be running out soon:"Nevermind:"

MD, nope, I didn't have any control. They had the female dentist work me over:not a darn thing I could do :)

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rhd99 8 years ago

Thank you, kutwitch, that helps, but for some who shot down my argument entirely, I challenge you to show me proof that Kansas will be safer because of this piece of CRAP legislation. Also, I challenge you to show me one piece of statistical analysis done nationwide with regard to conceal carry that has dropped our overall crime rate here in the United States.

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kutwitch 8 years ago

My post was not addressing the conceal carry law directly, I was simply responding to a post that didn't seem to think that guns are a big problem at clubs and bars in certain places. Personally I don't think this law is a good idea but I also don't think it will make much of a difference. I think that the people that were carrying guns before the law was passed will be mostly the same people carrying guns after it goes into effect. I don't think there will be a rush of new people running out to get guns, though there will be a few.

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justanothervoice 8 years ago

"Worried about getting mugged? I have never felt any sense of impending danger ar attack here. Except for Dr. Mericki, has there been a mugging/attack in town/county that anyone can sight? *Are you serious, or being sarcastic? Do you not watch the news? Leave the house?

The only exception I know of is the police dealing with 'That's my Dillon's' Simon(Robert). A couple of cops with the paddy wagon were loading him up this morning because he was lying next to Weavers. SAD

This law regulates law abiding citizens. It does not protect us."

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rhd99 8 years ago

Ok, all of you who don't agree with me, YOU say this stupid piece of legislation makes Kansas safer, PROVE IT!

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consistently_voluminous 8 years ago

S_S,

Mind you, I do not intentionally look at other men's "weapons" while at the gym........let's just say, however, that there are some guys there whose "weapons" are awfully big...and therefore, awfully hard to ignore--even from a long ways off!!--Especially some of them basketball players!! Yikes!!

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Let me know if the nay-sayers come up with anything better than personal insults and egregious stereotyping of those who plan to exercise their rights under this law. Yes, I already posted this on another thread. Copy/paste has its uses.......

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

c_v, Why you pickin' on me??? And why are you looking at other men's "weapons?";)

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prospector 8 years ago

Watch where you point that thing. It might go off!

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consistently_voluminous 8 years ago

Oh, please! There are plenty of men in this town that already carry.......Ahem!.....'concealed weapons" on their person (legally)! I see them (and their "weapons") all the time when they are getting undressed in the men's locker room at the local gym!! And there's never been any problems at the gym that I go to (not that I know of, anyway).

Countdown to Sunflower Sue comment....

5....4....3....2....

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

I started to reply to rhd99 again, but first checked out his/her previous comments. There's a definite pattern of logic deficiency. A plus Theta equals Pi.

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kansas_prairieland 8 years ago

TOB,

It doesn't relate to conceal and carry.

And that's where Topflight is being silly. Topflight thinks if our state has a conceal and carry law....it'll mean more dead bodies (in nightclubs or wherever)........and that's ridiculous.

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prospector 8 years ago

Worried about getting mugged? I have never felt any sense of impending danger ar attack here. Except for Dr. Mericki, has there been a mugging/attack in town/county that anyone can sight?

The only exception I know of is the police dealing with 'That's my Dillon's' Simon(Robert). A couple of cops with the paddy wagon were loading him up this morning because he was lying next to Weavers. SAD

This law regulates law abiding citizens. It does not protect us.

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

Here's a really wacky concept for you "Honk for Hemp"ers. I should be able to do almost anything as long as I'm not hurting someone or taking their stuff. When I hurt somebody, or take their stuff, I should go to jail. I have no problem with you sitting at home smoking a bowl. You're not hurting anybody. How exactly am I hurting someone by walking down the street or driving in my car with a weapon in my pocket? It's not a problem until I use it for something other than self-defense. If it wasn't for self-defense, I go to jail.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

I don't know the numbers so forgive me for not quoting but a large number of guns used in crimes were:

  1. Paid for in Cash
  2. Had several owners.

Going back and tracking would be pointless and impossible.

I don't understand your second sentence, rhd99. Are you saying that all unregistered users will be killers? Or are you saying that killers should have to be registered to own a gun.

I understand and agree to some extent about the problems with criminals and guns. I just don't see how it relates to Conceal and Carry.

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Liberty 8 years ago

If the Kansas government was obeying the Constitution, they wouldn't even need to go there. The Constitution already says that government has no jurisdiction in this area since you have a right to bear arms already.

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char 8 years ago

Amendment of previous post: rhd99, you make it sound like you want to go after ALL unregistered users, which isn't possible. You're not going to know who is an unregistered user until they are suspected of committing a crime.

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char 8 years ago

How are you going to know who the unregistered users are so that you can track their credit history? You don't know they own a gun illegally until they're suspected of using it illegally.

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

kutwitch, suppose your stories are all true. How many of those people do you suppose would actually be carrying LEGAL concealed weapons? Um...none? Your point, please?

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rhd99 8 years ago

Moderate, we track their credit history & we'll find out where they got the guns. Now, are you telling me that not tracking unregistered users, who are killers at some point, is smart? Not tracking unregistered people's purchases of guns, especially when they commit a crime is beyond comprehension & it's stupid, just like Senator WAGLE & her other extremist friends who wanted this frivolous piece of crap legislation. This legislature, except for Reps. Ballard & Davis of Lawrence is a SAD JOKE!

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

yeah, what Kansas_prarieland said.

Also, everything you mentioned happened prior to the CC law so I'm not sure what your point is in any event.

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kansas_prairieland 8 years ago

............the way that the law is written, I mean.

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kansas_prairieland 8 years ago

kutwitch,

So what does your story have to do with the soon-to-be cealed carry law?

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kutwitch 8 years ago

Kansas_prairie land, or should I call you Kansas_fantasy land, shootings in clubs may be rare in cities like Lawrence but in Wichita and Kansas City shootings in night clubs are not uncommon at all. Within the last few years there was the problem in Wichita as well as throughout the country that every time the song Throw Your Sets Up was played somebody got shot. About five years ago a kid I went to grade school and middle school with shot five people inside of a Wichta night club after an altercation. A few month ago people opened fire on Wichita Police officers in Old Town, the bar district, for apparently no reason. The list goes on... It is for this very reason that in a lot of bars and clubs in Wichita men must have their shirts tucked in at all times and cannot wear baggy pants that can conceal guns. Wake up, this world and state are bigger than the small towns.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

Or better known as Wal-Mart.

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GreenEyedBlues 8 years ago

My sentiments exactly, Jayhawk226. Charming photo of the happy family at a firearms counter! How very Norman Rockwell!

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Jayhawk226 8 years ago

Nothing sums up "redneck" more than the leading photograph--

--family and child in a gun store.

Hope that one goes into the baby album!

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kutwitch 8 years ago

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho should have mentioned that those numbers came not directly from FBI information but instead is word for word from the NRA website. No conflict of interest there. Even if those are correct numbers it is does not account for an increased police pressence in Flordia and other concealed weapons states or the overall drop in the major gang activity that was present in the late eighties and early ninties. Trying to prove your case with false analogies only makes your cause look desperate and uninformed.

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Tony Kisner 8 years ago

TOB your comment on not finding your .38 reminded me of a news article I read in the Topeka Paper when in High School. (a long time ago). A gal jumped off the Topeka Avenue bridge trying to killer herself, she landed in a foot of water and soft sand. She then walked out of the river and caught a cab to the hospital. I thought it was funny and sad. Classic.

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kansas_prairieland 8 years ago

Topflight,

So what you're saying is.......your biggest fear is that someday down the road, somewhere in Kansas (on a Friday night), some bar will be jam-packed with drunken patrons and someone will knock a glass off their table, it will hit the floor and make a loud noise.......and then, all of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, all of the drunken concealed pistol-packing people in the place will start shooting indiscriminately--at anything or anyone who moves??!! And there will be bullet holes everywhere??! In the ceiling? In the walls? In the floor? And then what? Dozens will die? Is that it? Is that what you're saying?!

Man! What wild west movie did you watch recently? Were the Three Stooges in it?

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char 8 years ago

Sue, I had a similar problem at Cabela's. My friend and I were looking at handguns for her, and the guy at the counter treated us like idiots. I don't think anyone would have helped us if she hadn't say "Hey, when you get a minute, I'd like to look at a gun."

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

Char, Amen, sister! My Mom did allow play guns growing up, but if she ever caught us pointing them at each other, forget about sitting down for the next week and a half! To quote my wise Mother: "Never point a weapon at someting that you don't intend to kill."...even if said weapon was a plastic toy gun. I really don't know why parents buy toy guns for their kiddies and then let them run rampant with them. That's a huge problem!!!

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

Do people seriously believe this law will make a difference in the suicide rate? My sis and I went to Cabela's last Friday and walked away with two guns that are perfectly able to do the job...no permit required. So what's the dif?

If you ever want a good laugh, try being female and get prompt service at the gun counter at Cabela's. I finally had to say something "slightly suggestive" to a male employee to grab his attention and then I had to convince him that I wasn't buying a gun to shoot my hubby with. What a hoot!

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

rhd99, how exactly are you supposed to track an unregistered gun owner? Time machines? Psychics? Little chips in everyone's brain?

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

Ron - I saw that yesterday. Bizarre. They even arrested guests in a hotel bar that didn't even have a car.

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char 8 years ago

"Posted by RonBurgandy (anonymous) on March 24, 2006 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Char - are you saying since you know how to handle a gun, then every person who gets a permit knows how to use them responsibly?"

No, I'm saying that education is missing in our system. I'm saying that my parents were responsible enough to make sure their kids didn't use guns as play toys and accidentally shoot their friends.

I will own a gun someday. I will get my concealed carry permit. I will also make sure I know how to properly use and care for my gun.

No matter what you do, people are going to use guns irresponsibly. Even making guns illegal wouldn't stop that, because we all know there are ways to get them illegally. Educate yourself and your family and friends. Do your part, and don't stop me from doing mine.

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

TF,

I absolutely do believe that people are breaking the law and concealing weapons in places like Last Call etc.. right now and will continue to do so.

The only difference is now, a law-abiding citizen has the ability to legally protect themselves from these individuals (who have always been around) when they leave the bar.

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rhd99 8 years ago

As usual, with their extremist ways the LEGISLATURE failed to provide safeguards, meaning, they don't have a system for tracking unregistered gun owners, who by the way, will not abide by this law, & if they shoot someone, BYE BYE. Off to jail. If this tracking system was in place originally, Kansas would not be totally safe, but it would place THUGS who commit crimes behind bars, where they belong!

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RonBurgandy 8 years ago

Char - are you saying since you know how to handle a gun, then every person who gets a permit knows how to use them responsibly?

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

So, topflight, you're concerned about the new law because of people who disregard the law?

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char 8 years ago

"people will go to these clubs packing to protect themselves because they already know it is dangerous there. And they will be in violation and no one will know. Unitl someone is shot."

That's what's going on right now, isn't it? So how is the concealed carry going to change that? If those people have carried without a permit until now, what makes you think they'll bother to get a permit now that it's legal?

I grew up in Wyoming. My dad has his concealed carry permit. My parents also taught me how to handle a gun and how to use it responsibly.

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RonBurgandy 8 years ago

topflight - well, if cops start going into bars to arrest drunk people, maybe they can give them a little pat down as well.

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topflight 8 years ago

Hey, all. I know that it is illegal to carry in bars and right now it is illegal to have guns in the proximities of bars. But you are fools if you believe that people actually abide by that. So you really think that each and everyone that goes in a bar is going to be pat down before he or she enters? NO. My point was, people will go to these clubs packing to protect themselves because they already know it is dangerous there. And they will be in violation and no one will know. Unitl someone is shot. . And no, i am not afraid

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rhd99 8 years ago

Okay, we now have concealed guns in our hands. Now, Legislature, PASS THE DAMN SCHOOL FUNDING BILLS!

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

Topflight, if you would even bother to get some basic informaiton, you would know that it's still illegal for anybody to conceal a weapon in a bar. If you're going to have an irrational fear, at least try to base it on a little bit of reality.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

topflight, read the bill, carrying in a bar is not legal.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

EDi - Ha. With me probably. I'm always losing my car keys in my coat pockets. I could see myself getting really depressed one day and wanting to just finish the deal but not being able to because I couldn't remember where I left my .38.

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topflight 8 years ago

Great, now how many nuts will be packing guns at those crappy clubs like the Granasty and Felonies Last Call. Can you imagine being in there when someone thinks they hear a shot fired, every nut who can carry a gun will be pulling it out and aiming at the other guy. But, lets look at the bright side, let them take care of each other. Saves the police time and effort.

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Tony Kisner 8 years ago

TOB Concealing the gun from your self should lower the suicide rate?

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Confrontation 8 years ago

If you look at most members of the state legislature, do we really want them judging the mental health of others?

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RonBurgandy 8 years ago

My concern isn't that there are going to be guns everywhere (falling from the sky), it is that some person who hasn't had a criminal background and passes all the tests to acquire a permit, gets attacked in someway, doesn't think rationally, whips out their gun, tries to take care of business, shoots, misses, and hits someone else in the vicinity.

Training doesn't solve all the problems, people can have all the training in the world, but still act irrationally when it comes down to a life-threatening situation. My concern is accidents that can happen. Does everyone believe that every person that has passed cpr training can save someone when it is needed? I know it is a different situation, but when there is pressure like that on someone, not everyone thinks clearly.

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Norma Jeane Baker 8 years ago

There can be a variety of reasons, GEB. And I've been there (and carried).

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

OMB - The first Grulla I find is mine. After that I'll keep you mind.

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Moderateguy 8 years ago

Lauren's comment is brilliant! What color is the sky in your world Lauren? Why hasn't anybody thought of that before?? You should go work for some think tank or somehthing.

None of the doom and gloom scenarios will happen. They haven't happened in the other states. Now, honest, law-abiding citizens can make a decision for themselves. What a concept.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

If guns start falling from the sky in Kansas, would somebody please pick up a nice side-by-side double-barrel shotgun for me?

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

Guns falling from the sky? I hope your crazy Kansas weather patterns don't move up here to Michigan. Maybe I'll stay inside, just in case.

Anyway, I would add that it makes sense that suicide rates aren't included in crime statistics.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

TOB, perhaps you should acquire a second person to give you more room to conceal weapons.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

GEB, residents of Vermont can legally carry handguns without applying for permits. That's been the case for years. Last time I looked, Vermont is waaay up North.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

"I noticed that data you cited doesn't include suicide rates. If someone has access to a gun in a state of desperation, an easy out is just a trigger away. That's got to factor in somewhere."

Please explain to me how a concealed carry law would have any effect on suicide. CCL's have no bearing on access to weapons.

After reading these posts the last couple of days it seems like those against CCL biggest concern is that all of the sudden millions of guns will magically fall from the sky.

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GreenEyedBlues 8 years ago

Informed, What kind of situational needs would merit carrying a gun? One would assume that if a person felt unsure about their safety, they just wouldn't do whatever it is they plan to do. On the other hand, some in our society (ie criminals) don't demonstrate that kind of self-control, so I could see how wielding a firearm would gives one that sense of security.

Perhaps most people, myself included, have that generalized image of the South, where there's a gun for every man, woman, and child.

Kam_Fong_As_Chin_Ho, I noticed that data you cited doesn't include suicide rates. If someone has access to a gun in a state of desperation, an easy out is just a trigger away. That's got to factor in somewhere.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Somehow the guy on Highlander was always able to conceal a samurai sword.

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one_more_bob 8 years ago

Hold on a minute, I need to know more things that rhyme with 'pleather'.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years ago

Yes. I agree! Now I'm just trying to figure how I'm going to conceal my shotguns and rifle.

Inmate - Good answer.

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

Higgin's Dairy Take the Ferrry concealed/carry I'm not wary.

Jim Carrey Debrorah Harry French terry Now that's scary!

Where's our poet laureate OMB this morning?

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Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 8 years ago

"What studies prove that concealed weapon laws actually deter crime?"

According to the most recent data available from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, states with RTC laws had significantly lower overall violent and firearm-related violent crime per capita rates than other states:

Violent crime rate -- 22% lower Robbery rate -- 36% lower Firearm violent crime rate -- 29% lower Firearm robbery rate -- 38% lower Homicide rate -- 31% lower Aggravated assault rate -- 14% lower Firearm homicide rate -- 38% lower Firearm aggravated assault rate-- 19% lower Handgun homicide rate -- 41% lower

Florida`s homicide and handgun homicide rates had dropped 22% and29% since adopting RTC in 1987, even as national rates had risen 15% and 50%.

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Norma Jeane Baker 8 years ago

Like Larry, I believe I have the right to protect myself. I plan to get a license, but will probably actually carry a weapon very, very few times, based on my perceived situational need.

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RonBurgandy 8 years ago

Only as long as they can't figure out how to generate enough funding for education.

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sunflower_sue 8 years ago

MD said last night at 11:58: "And as an officer once told me, nothing is scarier than a terrified woman, shaking, pointing a weapon at you!"

Oh, MD, don't you know that nothing is scarier that a fat police officer with a gun? They can't chase you down but they can shoot the hole out of a do-nut at 50 yards!

I agree with concealed/carry. I also agree with cash and carry. I do not agree with Harry Carry, unless it would help prison overcrowding.

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Larry 8 years ago

Merrill - do a search on google and you'll find articles both supporting concealed weapons and against. Question is - who completed the research?

My personal opinion is based on several interviews that I have seen with prison inmates who admitted that they are more reluctant to approach someone or even a house if there is a potential that the person or owner of the house has a weapon. Many convicted felons have stated that they are more fearful of a citizen who is carrying than a police officier. Who wouldn't? Police officiers have their hands tied.

I support the amendment. I don't plan to carry but believe I should have that right in the event that I'm some place where I feel uncomfortable.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

I think the serious retorts may come later. It seems like there's always some misguided soul who actually wants to answer the question.

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neopolss 8 years ago

It seems that most of the witty retorts have been taken.

Early bird catches the worm ... or one to the head.

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militant 8 years ago

If I were homeless, I'd definitely be carrying.

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sgtwolverine 8 years ago

A friend of mine claims his body is a weapon. When he wears clothes, does that make him a concealed weapon?

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hitme 8 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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inmate 8 years ago

many of the people around me already carry concealed weapons.

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KsjKC 8 years ago

I will admit to having somewhat mixed feelings--Even so, this was a cool example of government in action and I really doubt it cost the Governor much political capital...

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Norma Jeane Baker 8 years ago

Heck yes, I agree with the legislature. Merrill, there are differing opinions within law enforcement over this issue. But of course each side only touts the figures that bolster its position.

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Richard Heckler 8 years ago

What studies prove that concealed weapon laws actually deter crime? If this were a fact why would law enforcement consistently oppose such legislation?

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