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Do you think a commercial about Kansas shown in Times Square will boost state tourism?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on June 20, 2006

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Photo of Ryan Schrock

“It might possibly help some because most people don’t know that there is anything out here to see.”

Photo of Peg Graham

“Yeah. I’m from Long Island, and a lot of New Yorkers have a misconception about what Kansas is like. It’s a lot prettier and has more hills than I thought. There’s a lot of beautiful countryside.”

Photo of Acie Douglas

“Probably. There’s a very diverse population in New York. I’m sure there are a few that would like to get out of the big city and enjoy Kansas.”

Photo of Wilbert Ward

“It probably would. A lot of people think it’s just flat, but I think it’s very diverse and unique - especially the Kansas City, Lawrence and Topeka areas. I’ve driven all the way through western Kansas and enjoyed that as well.”

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GreenEyedBlues 11 years, 11 months ago

Newborn photographer? Peg Graham looks to be in her fourth, perhaps fifth decade. :S

I always see ads for Kansas tourism and just laugh to myself. Who are we trying to fool? New Yorkers, now, it looks like.

acg 11 years, 11 months ago

No, it won't boost tourism. No one wants to come to the land of bible thumpers, ultra conservative close minded a**holes and Fred Phelps. Vacation is supposed to be fun. Why would one spend their hard earned money on vacationing in such an oppressive state?

conservativepunker 11 years, 11 months ago

It's amazing that both comments so far are negative. So many people that live here hate it. I wonder why they stay? I lived in NYC for 3 years. I've toured with bands through the U. S. and Canada. Most people that I have encountered don't seem to have this innate hatred or distaste for where they live. Also, when people found I was from Kansas they were genuinely interested to find out if we really had as many Tornadoes as perceived, is it as boring here as they have heard (in my opinion, no).....Indeed, western Kansas may be flat, but one has to look beyond the obvious to see the beauty of this state. Also, bands that I talk to when they play here, be it Larry or KC, love it here. They love the old buildings, the hospitality of the people, even some love the history of the state..(ever taken out of towners around and shown them the markers of important points from Quantrill's Raid? Did YOU even know we had those here in Lawrence?) How bout the fact that the first bank Clyde Barrow robbed was here in Lawrence--where Teller's is now. (This was before he hooked up with Bonnie).....

Just food for thought.

YourItalianPrincess 11 years, 11 months ago

At a cost of $40,000??????

Wow thats alot of money to be tossing here and there.

conservativepunker 11 years, 11 months ago

I just don't get it. If y'all hate it here so much, why do you stay? Don't want to ditch the tenure, I fear.........or is it a fear of being a little fish in a big pond, instead of vise-versa?

Dixie Jones 11 years, 11 months ago

ahhh but my dear punker poster friend 95%of the ppl who come here to post are always negative anyway , its a shame ppl must hate themselves so badly that they have to try and bring others down, or poke fun at people they ask the question on the street ,,,, ahhh look at yourself before you go making fun of others and where one lives if you dont like kansas ,,,hum i dont see no chains keepin you here long dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya and please have a safe trip god bless

Larry 11 years, 11 months ago

I agree with with TOB. People from the east coast aren't going to come to Kansas when they can go a bit farther and be in the mountains. Kansas is definitely a destination for people with short drives. Maybe if we could begin creating our own tornadoes. I'll bet people would pay to see that!

Katie Van Blaricum 11 years, 11 months ago

If they want to increase tourism, why don't they make something touristy? Kansas City has NOTHING. No Natural History museums, no zoos worth traveling to, no public aquarium, no nothing!!! Why would anybody want to go there???

jranderson 11 years, 11 months ago

I love Kansas, but I don't think that commercial captures what I love about it. What people need to know is that Kansas really isn't that different. There are some things I don't agree with that happen here, but I choose to stay here and try to improve those things. With effort we can take the best of 'country' life and the best of 'city' life and find a balance. Not every place offers that. In a way I guess that's what the commercial was trying to show, it just seemed a little cheesy and out of touch with reality. I rarely see a woman using a laptop on a dock. That's just me though.

cutny 11 years, 11 months ago half of you will complain if anyone does show up. Who cares what Leno says? He's in California. Letterman? If we're lucky he'll choose a Kansas town to be his new "home office" or whatever that schtick is he does.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

I'm still confused of the overall goal this advertisement is set to serve:

  1. To come and visit Kansas for a getaway, "without the hustle of the city"


  1. Clean-up negative images of the state

New Yorkers already have upstate NY and the Hamptons for their getaways. As for the tourists strolling through NYC in Times Square, something tells me they chose an exciting push-pull dominant city to visit for a reason. What's their next destination? Probably not a quiet lake with Sunflower Cablevision-powered wireless Internet access.

The advertisement should be centered around local push-pull cities, within driving distance and closer proximity--Chicago, Dallas and Denver.

If this advertisement is set to clear up negative perceptions of the state...a 30-second advertisement just doesn't do it. Many states truly are beautiful, but others' perceptions and opinions (ignorant as they may be) are already engrained; it's a non-factor how "pretty and calm" a state is. If a state and its people are seen as fools, idiots, backwards, non-educated and archaic, no advertisement in the world will change a thing.

But, I do give state officials high marks for actually thinking-outside-of-the-box. We need more progressive and non-traditional brainstorming going on. This is a start, and an experiment.

And frankly, though many may find this ad campaign a fleecing of Kansas constituents....$40,000 in Times Square isn't that bad at all!

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

The article made reference to a 90-spot commerical featured in westbound United Airlines flights.

According to the Kansas Travel and Tourism Division website, "The 90-second video features beautiful shots of the Kansas landscape, famous Kansans, prominent Kansas businesses, and places to simply have some fun. This video is the latest component of the Department's "Kansas, as big as you think" brand image campaign. Since its inception in early 2005, the award-winning campaign has utilized a variety of media to market Kansas as a great place to live, work, and travel."

I did check out the actual advertisement from the United flights and it's pretty good. They did a great job marketing to those with a historical interest, but do wish they had captured more "family-oriented, fun-to-do things that Kansas can offer."

If you're interested in checking out the United Airlines commerical ad featured this past March, click the link below.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

...the Cabela's is the largest tourism draw in the State of Kansas.

Please tell me, that though it is a commentary in itself, the state deserves a tourism destination that offers a tad bit more than merely buying fishing, hunting and camping gear?!!?

sgtwolverine 11 years, 11 months ago

Jayhawk, I don't know if it's still true, but a few years ago Cabela's was Michigan's top tourist destination, too. Don't underestimate Cabela's.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

I agree sgtwolverine, don't underestimate is true!

According to the Natural History Museum in 2002-03, they indicated Cabela's did draw more tourists than the KU museum did.

That could have been because of how new Cabela's was at that point. Prior to the opening of Cabela's, the KU Natural History Museum was the #1 tourist destination in the state for several years.

sgtwolverine 11 years, 11 months ago

It was Cabela's first year in Michigan that I heard it was the top draw here, too. I don't know about it since then. I was just down there on Sunday, and the place was packed, so it still draws a lot of people.

I'm not really sure what Michigan's #2 destination was/is. I have to believe Mackinac Island is high on the list. But it's probably not the cheapest vacation.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

Here comes another copy-and-paste feature:

The most popular tourist attraction, with over 2.4 million visitors in 2002, is Cabela's (Kansas City), a 190,000 square-foot showroom and shopping center featuring a mule deer museum, a 65,000 gallon aquarium, a gun library, and Yukon base camp grill. The next ranking visitor sites in 2002 were Harrah's Prairie Band Casino (Mayetta), the Kansas City Speedway, Sedgwick County Zoo (Wichita), Woodlands Race Tracks (Kansas City), New Theatre Restaurant (Overland Park), Exploration Place (Wichita) and the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center (Hutchinson).

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Kline, are you confusing the horse Geronimo with Comanche, the last survivor of Custer's Last Stand? I know the Museum has Comanche, but this is the first I've heard of a different "stuffed" horse there.

I haven't seen the video yet, but I think it is kind of foolish to try to lure people to Kansas as a tourist attraction, in spite of the fact that I personally think Kansas is beautiful. Most people want something more spectacular and also something that they can brag about when they get home.

I think Kansas' real draw is as a place to move to, to get away from the crazy pace other places have come to accept as "normal." It's all a matter of taste, of course. I think Multidisciplinary's last paragraph about old roads and small towns describes Kansas' appeal to the majority who DO enjoy their visits here. Some of you scornful, pseudo-sophisticated Kansas bashers would be surprised to know how many people all over the country find that appealing.

Linda Aikins 11 years, 11 months ago

Remember a while back when I asked if Tom Cruise's sister was in charge of PR for Kansas?


It's a lovely video, but I don't know if it will get anyone here.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

salamander corny on a that's funny...I don't care who you are! Good one, MD!

I'm wondering how many people here actually use the Nat. Hist. Museum at KU? Seriously, I've been there a lot in the past and I've never seen any of you there! If there is anyone in the building at all, it's a busload of local school kids. As for he back on display yet? That museum has some serious funding issues. Do you wonder why the museum of anthropology was closed? Because no one really supports museums and would rather go to a b.ball game. So let's put another giant sum of $ into a new logo or something worthwhile. Maybe a new sign on the corner.

Oh sorry...commercial thing...whoever said it would only bring in regional traffic is probably right. Unless they happen to be "passing through" anyway, it won't draw them here.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago


I can't help but feel as though your description of "scornful, pseudo-sophisticated Kansas bashers" may include myself.

I don't want to directly refute you, but the old roads and small towns can be found in every state, in every part of this country. You don't have to traverse further than 1 hour in any direction of a major city and it's suburbs/collar-counties to even start finding those old roads and small towns. Travel even further into any state, and you are nothing but surrounded.

I will admit, there is something very romantic and beautiful about that environment. And yes, there are many who find that comforting.

But keep in mind Senator Brownback introduced a renewed Homestead Act back in 2001-02 because of the few who are actually willing to move to the more desolate communities in the state. The demographic statistics clearly show there has been a shift in population, and not much growth either. People are merely moving toward the eastern part of the state, in particular Johnson County. Kansans themselves are abandoning their own home regions.

Why is this? For jobs? For better schools? For higher quality of life? For more diversity? For quicker pace of life? To avoid something?

I have no answers to those questions, or a solution to help the smaller communities of the state.

I moved here from Illinois to attend KU and have been here for 8 years now. I'm almost done with my PhD and will most likely HAVE to leave, because there isn't as much opportunity here in Kansas. It's called the "dumb-bell" factor. Kansas produces babies and college graduates, but has great difficulty retaining them...everybody leaves for opportunities in other parts of the country.

If it is as appealing as you mention canyon, then why don't the facts indicate that people all around country like the old roads and small towns of Kansas? And even more important, why do the facts prove that even native Kansans are shifting from the old roads and small towns?

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

I used to work there sunflower_sue, perhaps I even handed you your brochure...

...after you left your $2 "donation" upon each visit. The funding problem exists because NOBODY leaves a "donation" to use the educational "services" that we provided.

The University is hardly funded by the State of do you expect the Natural History Museum to gain any more funding that it may be due.

As a sidebar, if you look across the street at the closed-down Anthropology are looking at the saving grace of the Natural History Museum. It was either NHM or Anthropology. Because the NHM drew more people and has an actual research and biological labs, NHM remained open.

Also note, the NHM is a division of the research end and gains maybe 10% of the overall funding.

It relies on donations of the Kansas constituents.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

OK, I just re-read and it now occurs to me that Kline is one of those that has never actually been to the museum. Tonto's horse? What? sigh I hope you were kidding.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago


And it is documented that Comanche was not the "last, sole survivor" either.

The US Infantry selected Comanche from the battlefield, leaving others to die, and used it as a symbolic reminder of how the US can not be defeated.

I've always wanted my picture as I ride Comanche bareback...but it's in that darn glass container. Ugh!!

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

Jayhawk, Consider me one of the rare supporters of museums that ALWAYS left a generous donation in the box. I used to go to the museum(s) about once a month. Now that my kiddies are older, we go less often. My oldest was asking to go last week so we will have to make a trip soon to see what's changed (if anything). Also, no you wouldn't have handed me a brochure...didn't need one...but I probably did say hello to you if you worked there.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

well I like you even more now sunflower_sue!!!!

And I promise I smiled and gave a friend hello back...

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

MD, I'm confused! 9:56...what are you talking about? I complimented you on a good joke at 9:45 but can't remember saying anything else.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

Oh, my "no more late night surfing" comment was supposed to be funny. Forgot to add the :o)! You were up early and very chatty. I found it funny. I, too "left" for most of the day. It was one of THOSE days. You know what I'm talking about. My nerves were shot last night. Now I have to go look in my dream book and find out why I keep dreaming of serial killers. What's up with that? My nerves are better now, but the day is still young.:o)

Speaking of pit vipers, for those of you that haven't been to the Nat. Hist. Museum in quite a while, all of the snake pits got a wonderful paintjob. No more faded sky blue! I'm sure the snakes are happier!

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Jayhawk226--I actually wasn't referring to you, but to some of the other Kansas-bashers who post from time to time. I will have to go back and re-read your posts to find out if the shoe DOES fit.

I agree that the old roads and small towns can be found in every state.But William Least-Heat Moon sort of "immortalized" Kansas' small towns, etc. in PrairyErth, and that did give Kansas special recognition--from those who actually read it (which I did). And I'm not saying Kansas' "small towns and old roads" are unique--I'm just saying that people who do take the time to explore Kansas often find those are particularly appealing. But, again, if it's not YOUR "thing," you wouldn't understand that point of view.

A lot of people "have" to leave Kansas because they want lots of money. There are lots of small towns in Kansas where you still can buy nice homes for well under $100 K (if you get far enough away from either the Interstate or a university) and have a nice life for your family, and I think more and more people are going to find that is the choice they want to make for themselves as the years pass.

I live in a fairly isolated community in SE Utah, without much in the way of shopping or "cultural attractions"--so I go to Salt Lake City to the ballet and symphony, and find that a lot of my acquaintances in SLC rarely take advantage of the things they supposedly THOUGHT they had to have which is the reason they live there. I think the same kinds of things are available to small town folks everywhere, if those things matter enough to them that they are willing to drive a little. The calm life that's available to them the rest of the time is often worth the isolation. I know that it is, to me, at any rate.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago


I must have a guilty conscience, eh?!!? ; )

I'd like to get out to Utah...seems beautiful from everything I've seen through the media. I'd like to experience it firsthand though!

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Utah IS absolutely beautiful--and, like Kansas, up till recently people didn't know how beautiful parts of it are--mostly they think of the area from Salt Lake west to the Nevada state line. And for ME, one of its most appealing features is, again, the "small town-back roads" of the state. I guess I was just born about 100 years too late!

blondie77 11 years, 11 months ago

I think Kansas should advertise ... I just don't think it should be in NYC. I am sure $40,000 would go much further talking to our surrounding states. Think of it this way, how many people must see the ad in NYC and choose to vacation in KS to make this decision get a good return on investment? It seems it would be better spent talking to Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Iowa residents. I recently investigated vacationing in MO and found some great options. My husband and I are FAR more likely to go back to MO several times this summer or this year than we are to fly across the US. We could take one trip to NYC or 10 trips to various locations in neighboring states. $40,000 is NOTHING compared to other advertising budgets ... especially in NYC. Our Kansas ad will be lost in the clutter of the THOUSANDS of other ads seen in times square. Why not spend it buying TV and radio ads in small markets through out the midwest? Again, I believe advertising and marketing Kansas can generate more tourism dollars ... I just think they chose a poor marketing strategy. It is strategy that will win the war, day and day again.

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." Sun Tzu 490 B.C., Chinese Military Strategist

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Great comments, blondie! You are absolutely right!

I think Kansas does offer a lot to people who are familiar with the kinds of things it does offer. I do, however, question whether tax monies are well used when spent on trying to draw tourists. Certainly, advertising that Kansas has the "largest ball of twine" and similar attractions is kind of embarrassing, and a lot of our other "metropolitan" claims to fame are just "also-ran" versions of something bigger and better that tourists could see elsewhere.

I live in a community which DOES have natural tourist attractions (2 national parks) and which has put all its economic eggs in that particular basket. I sometimes feel that grasping after tourists is often overemphasized here, and is done so at the $ neglect of many other things.

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Where else? I remember that you have said you have come here often. When was the most recent visit?

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

Yes, the Brewery is still going strong--totally packed most noons and evenings this time of year and, as I am sure you found out, one of the best places to eat. Did you see the big to-do about the fellow climbing Delicate Arch? He's not very popular around here, needless to say!

sgtwolverine 11 years, 11 months ago

Actually, hysterical bewilderment would not be out of the question.

Hey, that would be a great username for this site. Hysterical_Bewilderment.

mom_of_three 11 years, 11 months ago

There are many places in Kansas where you can buy a great home for under $100,000. Hopefully, you can also find a job in the same town.
I have lived in Kansas for the majority of my years. Haven't really thought about moving.
There are loads of places to visit. You just have to know where to look. I don't know if Abilene or Atchison was on anyone's lists, but the houses of Eisenhower and Earhart are great. And the Wichita Zoo puts Topeka's to shame.
I don't know if we can draw tourism here to our square little state, but maybe we can make them stop and look on the way through.

adavid 11 years, 11 months ago

the ad will but people who bash their own state on some newspaper blog will certainly turn people away who wants to visit a state of whose residents hate it already, anyway?

canyon_wren 11 years, 11 months ago

There are people in every state who hate their state but don't seem to get around to leaving it. Those people probably hated the place they left and will hate the next one along the way. Guess that is just human nature. It's kind of a pitiful way to look at life in general--especially since it (life) is so brief.

Jayhawk226 11 years, 11 months ago

I'm just an overly-proud Chicago native...

...while I live in Kansas, I'd like it to be as great as possible. Having grown up with such different ideas/concepts/practices/laws, many of which work and are's very, very difficult to try to accept Kansas for not trying or not succeeding with similar ideas.

I know this isn't fair. Each state and city has its own cultures.

I love Kansas.

I do not love many who run and decide policy for the state.

I think that's where my disgruntlement (is that a word?) comes from.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 11 months ago

I think that we should all just come to terms with "we want what we don't have." KS has many great attributes, but since we live here, it's hard to imagine wanting to vacation here. I actually (7 years ago) took 3 days to drive across KS and see all of those things that we normally would just drive right on by. It was a fun trip. Stopped in a tiny town where they actually had a nice museum and got our own personal tour (no one else was there) of all the goodies.

Last year we drove (at the hubby's insistance) out to the east coast. I did my research and we stopped in many states and did many things that we normally wouldn't have. Let's face it, lots of states are as landlocked as we are...and some are even more square. We had a good time. Who knew?

sgtwolverine 11 years, 11 months ago

Don't get me started on a zoo. The city of Detroit nearly shut down the Detroit Zoo a couple months ago because the city is facing a big budget deficit. The state offered money to run it if the city would give up control of the zoo, but the city refused, saying it didn't want to give up control of its assets. So they said they would shut it down. The only people who actually understood that logic happened to be running Detroit.

Fortunately, enough people got mad that the city backed down. The zoo is still open (it's a good thing, too -- their polar bear exhibit is worth the price of admission!).

boomersooner4ever 11 years, 11 months ago

there isnt anything to see here...i too had preconceived notions before i came here...and i was right. the US isnt missing out on anything if they never come. our bubble is perfectly safe and judgemental as it is.

Emily Hadley 11 years, 11 months ago

I think the short NY TImes Square ad missed an opportunity to portray Kansas as well as it could. Granted the short time, 8 days, to put it together, is a challenge, but we actually have whole symphonies perform in the Flint Hills, not just pairs of musicians in a field with a random dancer flitting by!

The Flint Hills and the Gove outcroppings are examples of the surprisingly diverse natural landscape here, and these could have shown a contrast to the plains.

I would have preferred to see a bit of small-town urbanity represented as well, although maybe an endless, giant scrolling green landscape was what they wanted to put up on the marquis in Times Square. We'll see what they think...

oldfashiongirl 11 years, 11 months ago

Hi y'all,

Yes, a lot of midwest states are advertising here in Ky. Arkansas, Nebraska, Missouri and Kansas have bombarded us with ads for about a month now. Kansas' ad was not done too well and did not mention many places of interest, if any, and they did not have much sound, so if you're in the kitchen, you don't see what they're saying. A couple of weeks ago when all the hullabaloo over that concert was on and the police were stopping cars for inspection for drugs or liquor when people weren't even going to the concert, would certainly offset any good the ads would do.

I, too, love small towns and the backroads. Kentucky is also beautiful and has so many tourist spots. I live near the Kentucky lakes and that is such a good fishing area and other water sports. We have horse racing in Henderson and Lexington and Louisville and the great Horse Park outside of Lexington. We have many college towns and a lot of State Parks. Eastern Ky is mountainous and Mammoth Cave National Park is in central Ky. President Abraham Lincoln's birth home is here, Fort Knox has our country's gold depository and the Green River is the deepest in the world. We have the famous "Old Kentucky Home" in Bardstown and many distilleries nearby. There is Shaker Village near Danville. We grow a lot of Burley tobacco and dark-fired tobacco and the State has planted a variety of flowers along the highways.

It would be a treat for me to visit Kansas and see all the broad fields of wheat and you have sunflowers too. That must be wonderful to see, as well as to meet a lot of you nice people. Y'all come!!!!

Linda Endicott 11 years, 11 months ago

There are lots of places in Kansas where the sunflowers grow wild, right along the highway. Lots of wheat fields, and corn fields, and soybean fields, and alfalfa fields, which smells wonderful when they harvest it.

If you like looking at the stars at night, without the glare of city lights, try going to any rural road in Kansas. You can see millions of stars, so close it looks like you could reach out and touch them. Or maybe you'd like to sit near a field or pasture on a summer night and watch thousands of lightning bugs flicker green in the darkness.

In the fall, the countryside is blazing with autumn colors. We still have old, covered bridges (not all of them were in Madison county!), log cabins, and historic courthouses, all across the state. There are still 9 drive-ins operating in Kansas, one of them near here in Paola. Definitely a piece of Americana.

In the winter, everything may be covered by a blanket of snow, and the hills are beautiful. When the sun comes out after a snow, it looks like someone sprinkled glitter all over. Have many New Yorkers ever seen a fresh snowfall, with no footprints, no wet, brown, slushy roads?

Western Kansas may be flat, but eastern Kansas sure isn't. Lots of hills and hollows and lots of nature to explore.

There are lots of historical places in Kansas, too. The Santa Fe trail goes through Kansas, as does the Oregon trail. Near Lebanon, Ks., is the geographical center of the continental U.S. The Eisenhower Center is in Abilene, with its museum and library, and the final resting place of Ike and his wife, Mamie. The old Einsenhower home, where Ike was raised, is a museum as well.

The old home and barn where the Dalton Gang hid is near Meade, Ks. The John Brown museum is in Osawatomie. There is still an old pony express station in Marysville, now a museum.

There are lots of ghost towns in Kansas, and lots of old lore and myths to discover as well.

If you want to see pictures of places all across Kansas, here's a good website:

jayhawk2000 11 years, 11 months ago

Kansas needs a new iconic movie (or TV show), something that brings its best qualities to national attention.

Lets face it, all folks know about us is what they saw in the Wizard of Oz. Which is a bit like not wanting to visit Atlanta because you saw it burnt to the ground in Gone With the Wind.

Linda Endicott 11 years, 11 months ago

That's true. There are a lot of people out there who have misconceptions about Kansas. When my sister was in college here, one of her class mates was from New Jersey. The girl got off the plane at KC and expected to see cowboys and Indians, and all the wagons grouped in a circle for protection!

Yeah, she was kind of flaky, but a lot of people have the same ideas...that we're still in the old west days. They don't seem to know we have the cosmosphere, or Boeing, or Coleman, or Russell Stover, or anything modern.

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