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Do you think Toby Young received the proper punishment for helping a convicted murderer escape?

Asked at Borders, 700 N.H. on July 13, 2006

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Photo of Rick Botkin

“No, because she worked at the prison and had earned everybody’s trust and then betrayed it. The punishment seems a little soft.”

Photo of Darci Falin

“It’s probably not enough. There should be other consequences, like not being able to have another job with that kind of responsibility.”

Photo of Nicole Williams

“I think it should be more. A convicted killer is more than capable of committing the crime again.”

Photo of Andy Holzmeister

“I would have to say no. She knew he was a convicted criminal when she committed the crime.”

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Comments

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

"It's probably not enough. There should be other consequences, like not being able to have another job with that kind of responsibility."

  • Darci Falin, homemaker, rural Ozawkie

Uhh. . . every try and get a job with a felony on your record?

Tell 'em about it, inmate.

Without knowing any facts about the case, and about Manard's original murder case, for that matter, I can't say that I can form a full, well based opinion.

But heck, that's not what this board is all about, is it?

She should rot in prison for a long long time! And she shouldn't be let out of her cell! She shouldn't get to read! She can't excersise! She broke the rules! Punishment! Punishment! Punishment!

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

Yes, Jonas, Yes!! Get out that aggression! You GO!! Release your inner ALL CAPS!!!

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

And what a postiive outlook you have on life, huh! Toss that bowl of cereal away!

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, they would have punished her dogs, but they're already in prison.

craigers 8 years, 5 months ago

She should be put on the sexual predator list. The prisoner that she helped escape was preyed upon. All she wanted was to have good time with a dangerous man. I feel sorry for that guy, during his emotional distress this lady took advantage of him! This punishment is not enough.

(Please turn on your sarcasm radars!)

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

"People really lose their sense of humor in prison."

...and on the ljw comment board, i.e. "It's predominantly a sounding board for the frustrated, the bigoted, the ignorant, and the aggressive."

"so young, so angry-DAMN that rap music!" from, the nutty professor (part II i think)

i lean toward the notion that ms toby should spend more time in the slam.

ljlook 8 years, 5 months ago

STOP!!!

"Without knowing any facts about the case, and about Manard's original murder case, for that matter, I can't say that I can form a full, well based opinion."

A murder is a murder is a murder is a murder.

He was convicted of MURDER, and she (a trusted person of the state) helped the MURDERER escape. He could have killed again while he was at large. Since he didn't kill while out, people are feeling sorry for the "poor woman who was in love" and duped. Let's forget about her husband at home who came home to find his wife missing, and his bank account light by $10,000.

She disregarded the law, disrespected her family, and deserves no pity.

She should have gotten the maximum punishment.

Have a great day!

Fangorn 8 years, 5 months ago

bennyoates, today, 6:11 am "No, it isn't. It's predominantly a sounding board for the frustrated, the bigoted, the ignorant, and the aggressive."

bennyoates, 7/7/06, 12:22 pm "Brownback, unlike most Republicans these days, has both a heart and a brain."

Point taken, benny. Touche.

aeroscout17 8 years, 5 months ago

Remember, part of the reason the sentence is "short" is because she pled out, saving the taxpayers the cost of a trial where she would have been found guilty, and sentenced to a longer term (costing us more money). She has actually saved us money!

sunflower_sue 8 years, 5 months ago

Who really thnks she'll even serve the 21 months? What that woman needs is some serious mental help. What she did is beyond the scope of a sane person. For that matter, all criminals are lunatics. Let's set them all free...with the exception of inmate, of course! He's obviously sane and should therefore serve his time. ;o)

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie: It's part of my routine, now that my route schedule is changed and I have to wake up at 5:20 to get to work rather than anytime before 2. Channelling humerous (well, I hope) fake anger and energy helps me clear my head from sleep fog.

ljlook: A murder is a murder is a murder is a murder.

So, if I, say:

A) killed a man because he didn't bum me a smoke

B) killed a man who, say, raped my wife, or

C) killed a man who threatened the life of my son

those would all be the same to you? I ask only out of curiosity. Personally, I think most of us are a lot closer, every day, to acting against the law than most of us care to admit to ourselves. That may not be that close at all, but I still think it's probably true.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

"I can't say that I can form a full, well based opinion"

Why? What's the point of doing all that? Geez, if I tried to "base" my opinions and form them "well", I'd never get around to hitting the "Post comment" button.

-

As traditional and conservative as most of my posts are, this may surprise some of you: I think she got more than enough time. Yes, this was a serious crime. But if the purpose of jail is to reform behavior, I don't doubt that she will be quite reformed when she gets out. My guess is that she could probably do NO time and we could be confident that she'd never do anything like this again.

I also think we need to consider his manipulation as a mitigating factor. She was, apparently, suseptible to the kind of wooing that he doled out on her. She was an easy target it seems (he's not exactly Pierce Brosnan!).

Another thing that I don't understand is how this could happen. 1) Who lifted the crate into her Jeep? There were more than two people involved in this fraud. 2) How does a jail volunteer establish a romance with an inmate without anyone noticing? The "jail" didn't plan this break, but they sure didn't see any of the signs that her relationship was more than "dogs". Jails keep an eye on guards, so why wouldn't they keep an eye on a volunteer? For that matter, why don't they do personality profiles to determine a volunteer's susceptibility to this kind of manipulation before putting them in that kind of situation? She could have been convinced to bring him a dog crate full of GUNS.

She made a bad choice, but she had a lot of "help" making that bad choice, which should be taken into consideration.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

"B) killed a man who, say, raped my wife, or C) killed a man who threatened the life of my son"

If you killed someone in either of those two scenarios and you got full blown "murder", you had a KSU grad for an attorney. With the way people plead out of stuff, you don't get "murder" unless you really just went and killed a dude.

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

Oldenuff: Chuckle. Well, I'll remember to ask their graduating school when I go to trial.

Teapot9 8 years, 5 months ago

Yes shes already served time for a crime she wasnt even convicted of. Free Toby ASAP. She wont do it again I cannot stand these harsh punishments for non-violent criminals. The guy is a murderer FINE, but did anything happen while they were gone?? NO!!!! This is ridiculous and the judges in this state need to pull their heads out of their patoots.

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

Yes, teapot, I agree. Let's all go break someone out of prison. If nothing happens, then it won't be wrong, or just plain foolish. Right?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

"The guy is a murderer FINE, but did anything happen while they were gone?? NO!!!!"

As I remember the story, they basically turned their cabin in the woods into their own little "penthouse of pleasure". But, what would have happened once he bored of using her as a human sex toy? She was useful to him, but once he had what he wanted, she can quickly go from "accomplice" to "witness". I think she was in great danger. Nothing "happened" while they were gone because the got caught before he got bored with her. She would have become a liability to him, and then he would have killed her. That's what I think.

thunderbuns 8 years, 5 months ago

She should have been given a sentence of at least 2 weeks longer for having the name "Toby"............

Toby or not Toby. That is the question.

Whatever.

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

i think this will make a most wonderful movie for the Lifetime network.

who shall play toby? maynard? i vote for kathy bates and mark wahlberg. no particular reason. ;)

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

I predict the the next hour of posts will focus almost exclusively on Teapot's comment. NOT well thought through.

"I cannot stand these harsh punishments for non-violent criminals."

Aiding the escape of a convicted murderer makes her an accomplice to his actions. In his desperation, he was likely to kill again (my guess). Then would you call her 'non-violent'? Her actions are directly connected to a murderer, and may have led to the facilition of more murders. If I transport drugs, I'm in the drug trade, even though I'm not actually doing the selling. If I aid a murderer in his escape, am I not connected to his murderous acts?

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

How about Frankie Valli and Connie Chung?

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

LOVE it, gootsie! :)

where did kevin bacon come in to the mix?? isn't he just a tad too old to be maynard? (i'm not hip to the younger actors, gregory peck is still my leading man!)

kathy bates...isn't she the one who played "misery"? hellifiknow!

MomMeg 8 years, 5 months ago

Hey guys! I've missed you all -- been so busy with summer activities I haven't had much time for the OTS question BUT for this one I will make an exception! Let's not forget all the time she invested planning to help Maynard escape - buy the vehicle, find the cabin, get him a cell phone.... She betrayed the trust of the system by abusing her position within the prison walls. Is her sentence long enough?? Not even close!
I do agree with you Sue -- she does need help!! Ya'll have a day!!

MomMeg 8 years, 5 months ago

That's great Bob -- and you are so right!!! Poor Poor Toby, a poor damsel in distress -- that does seem to be the plotline for all lifetime movies. Thanks for the laugh!!

angelofmine 8 years, 5 months ago

I'd say lets ask the guard who lost his job the same question and see what he says. Sure, he should've checked the van, but when you think about it, her little indiscretion cost him his job. He trusted her.

angelofmine 8 years, 5 months ago

Also, does anyone know the possible repurcussions of bringing a cellular phone into a prison?? Its not just something little. When the inside is allowed to connect with the outside on a non-monitored line, bad things happen. My fiancee is in this line of work, and the scenarios he described to me made me wish he had another job.

mom_of_three 8 years, 5 months ago

If I remember correctly from my reading....

Manard was convicted of murder, but didn't actually pull the trigger. He was at the scene, 18 or 19, when one of his buddies shot someone during a robbery/car jacking.

So he has probably never actually shot someone. But I wouldn't want to run into him while he was out

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

So, I wonder if Toby will be re-habbing dogs again... as an inmate.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

The maximum possible was 41 months, so 21 months may not be out of line considering the circumstances. Seems to me the maximum is a little on the light side for aiding in an escape.

As for the movie version previously mentioned- Disney Corp. could buy the rights and produce it from the dogs prospective. You know the drill, cute faces with that perpetual look of "what the heck are the primates doing now?" Then we can all get weepy when the old shelter mutt and the plucky Jack Russell try to lead the authorities away from the hideout, and the old mutt falls down the mine shaft.

  • or not.

RonBurgandy 8 years, 5 months ago

Will she be able to play with the dog trainer and their dogs while she is in prison?

The person to play Toby in the Lifetime movie: Kunta Kinte.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

What is it about whiny, weeping women that turns you guys into mush?? Really!! The evidence indicated that she was user as much as used. SHE is the one who turned HIS fantasy into reality, and stole from her husband (remember him, the guy defending her and worrying about her on TV) to do so. Plus, she was perfectly okay with turning this violent criminal loose on the world as long as he was in her bed. This is not some poor, lonely, misguided woman. She knew what she wanted and made the necessary arrangements to get it -- regardless of who else was hurt in the process.

btw, how many of you guys would have these warm, forgiving hearts if it was your wife, girlfriend or significant other rolling around with the criminal (on your dime!)?

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

RI, you tell me -- would you want your nickel used for a party you weren't even invited to ;) I wouldn't, in fact I'd do my best to collect my nickel from my partner's family jewels. If I did I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be considered such a pitiful victim -- a conclusion probably drawn due to the fact that I would also publically display said jewels -- maybe hanging from my mail box :):) Or would it then become a male box? Hmmm, don't know.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Draconians Unite!!

RI, I would never consider such a gross thing . . until after they had been appropriately dried, maybe painted, lots of possibilities there.

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

You guys get all the fun. Up here in southern Michigan we don't have any exotic creatures threatening our way of life. Well, except for the foreign automakers.

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

tob, do those geckos have cute lil' british accents and talk about 'avin chips&pie? for free??

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

lesson i learned over this lunch hour; NEVER assume that just because there are only 3 cars in the taco hell line-that you'll get your food quickly. the humidity liked to have killed me! because after all...it ain't the heat so much, eh?

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

Okay, this has nothing to do with anything being discussed, but this news item is just way, way too good not to share.

"Darryl Sutter stepped down as head coach of the Calgary Flames on Wednesday and handed over coaching duties to assistant Jim Playfair."

Next up: a chef named Andre Cookgood and a singer named Alyssa Singpretty.

trinity 8 years, 5 months ago

ahhhhh, the british gecko's southern counterpart-BUBBAgecko! ;)

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

TOB, we will use Indiana and Ohio as shield to protect us from the invasion. Maybe even Illinois, too, although I like Chicago too much to include it. That should work for a while, right?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, I think we've burned out on this topic. Now were talking about bears and the weather.

I hope when Toby gets out in a couple of years she can put some of her life back together.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Was I a bit too harsh? Sorry, TOB. :- Seemed like I saw a lot of wavering due to the circumstances when it's the circumstances that makes me think she got off too easy. But whatever time she ends up serving will be time I won't have to watch her sobbing and whining on TV. I will enjoy the break. I was just surprised that the OTS menfolk seemed to be overly sympathetic to her :)

s_s, how goes it in San Fran? I seldom disagree with you, (here it comes:), but sometimes people are not mentally ill when they make unethical decisions, they are just self-centered, thinking about what they want and nothing or nobody else.

MerryPresent 8 years, 5 months ago

I think she's had enough punishment. Just a case of the midlife-going-nutz thing. Her dad died while she was in jail. Let her go! Free Toby! I"m sure she's over Manard...he was just a fling.

jonas 8 years, 5 months ago

Kathy Bates to Adam Sandler in Waterboy. Adam Sandler to Kate Beckinsale in Click. Kate Beckinsale to John Cusack in Serendipity. John Cusack to Nicholas Cage in Con Air. Nicholas Cage to John Travolta in Face Off. John Travolta to Kevin Bacon in Broken Arrow.

In six! My skills are hampered as Broken Arrow is the only Kevin Bacon movie I knew any of his co-cast in.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

That was loverly, RI!

I read it and I like it, indeed, like it alot. It binds her not with weeping, swollen eyes and running snot. Which are in fact of no true worth, coming only when she's caught.

Guess mine is not as pretty as Rud's :)

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Then we are really in a pickle :)

I seldom wax poetic anymore, she just bring out the b*#$% in me I guess (that usually takes a couple of Kahlua & Creams :). Well, she's had far too much attention from me today. . . . rant over . . sigh . . composure returns.

Linda Aikins 8 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie got to hug Huey Lewis Huey Lewis with Gwyneth Paltrow in Duets Gwyneth with Bill Murray in Royal Tenenbaums Murray with Jim Belushi on SNL Belushi with Bacon in Animal House

Now my head hurts

thunderbuns 8 years, 5 months ago

stgwolverine:

"Next up: a chef named Andre Cookgood and a singer named Alyssa Singpretty".

Would you believe a proctologist named Hugh Jainus?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 5 months ago

Me to my sister-in-law (she is an assistant director in L.A.) Sis-in-law to Michael Chicklis (sp?) M. Chicklis to Forest Whittaker & Glen Close From there I don't know how to link to Kevin Bacon. I need some help.

I can also link the sis-in-law to Fran Dresher, the guy who was the son on the Cosby show, Eddie Griffith and Rosanne Barr. If any of those have links to K. Bacon, I don't know.

OH, I can also link to Robert Altman in two jumps. But again, I don't know where to go from there. I can link to Herbie Hancock in a direct link. He was in the movie Round Midnight, but most of the actors in that flick were musicians, not "actors", so that will likely run dry. A childhood friend puts me two jumps from David Jansen (she was in a war movie when she was a baby), but again... I really suck at this.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

I've met Matt Dillon (not the sheriff :), Ryan & Tatem O'Neal and Sybil Sheperd. Gotta go to a softball game, will try later to figure out if any of them are connected to Kevin Bacon! I would also appreciate any assistance y'all might give :-}

justsomewench 8 years, 5 months ago

if she served the remainder of her sentence in a kennel cab, i'd call it good.

sunflower_sue 8 years, 5 months ago

Ceal, San Fran is warmer and very nice (weather wise) today. About the crazy criminals comment...I do agree with you that not all criminals are crazy. That was said in jest but I forgot the :) after. We all know that inmate is one of the sane ones.

I think I'm in some weird zone because I swear half the people out here are crazy. Some woman actually tried to steal my sammich today! Just walked up to the table and started taking our food. I drew the line at my sandwich! What the???

RI, Not THAT Kathy Bates! Yeash.

sunflower_sue 8 years, 5 months ago

It may be so. Who would you like to conect me to? Kevin Bacon? I'll think on that one.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

OMG!! RI, you are so right!! Ceallach to Kevin Bacon in 2!!!

Me to Matt Dillon, met him and Andrew McCarthy when they were making the movie, "Kansas," in 1988. (McCarthy was nice, Dillon -- such a jerk!!)

Matt Dillon to Kevin Bacon in "wildthings" (1998).

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Hey, s_s, just noticed we posted at the same time. I didn't know how late you would be checking in.

G'baby's team lost their softball game by 1 point. You would have thought it was the World's Series :)

My very best wishes to you and your charge. Thanks for taking time to keep us posted.

sunflower_sue 8 years, 5 months ago

OK, me to Kevin Bacon: My good friend in elevator with Alan Alda Alan Alda to Melissa Gilbert (Little house...) Melissa Gilbert engaged to Rob Lowe Rob Lowe went to high school with Sean Penn Sean Penn and Kevin Bacon in "Mystic River"

How did I do?

I can connect myself to Ted Nugent by one.

Ceallach 8 years, 5 months ago

Thanks to the all knowing Oracle of Google :)

It's still early in SF, here it's getting late -- for me, anyway. But tomorrow is Friday AND payday, YEAH!!

Have a good and restful night, sue -- keep you strength and attitude UP.

Manana

sgtwolverine 8 years, 5 months ago

I'm very late, but I had to add:

My sister's best friend in high school appeared in Almost Famous , which starred Billy Crudup (and is also a fantastic movie) Billy Crudup was in Sleepers with Kevin Bacon

Since I don't know if I can connect directly with my sister's best friend or if I have to go through my sister, I'm not sure how many degrees that would be.

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