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Should the state restrict the licenses of those who fail to pay child support?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on February 7, 2006

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Photo of John McFarland

“I think so. If you’re behind on child support you’re breaking the law, and if you break the law, you start to lose your rights. I think that’s a good principle to follow.”

Photo of Linda Wright

“Yes. I think they need to find a way to hold something against people who don’t pay it. If not licenses then something else.”

Photo of Sean McCue

“Yeah sure. I think so. If they think it will help get them to pay it.”

Photo of Lauren Smith

“That would be a good way to do it. Maybe not so much for driving. They need to be able to get to work so they can make money to pay it. But they should do it with any recreational licenses.”

Comments

asphhauler 8 years, 6 months ago

I think yes they need to do something about getting people to pay their childsupport but no you should not restrick their licens because they may make their living with it. Maybe instead they need to have the parent that recives the child support show where the money is spent on the child and have to account for it dollar for dollar and check to see that they are living up to their end of a divorce decree then maybe they would be more willing to pay it.

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nytemayr 8 years, 6 months ago

I don't think so. The current law allows for property to be confiscated to collect money due. The court must make clear that child support is for the child not income for the custodial parent. Both parents should be required to make payments to the state for child support.

The idea is well intended but is more zealous than reasonable. I believe we should support all activity by parents to make a living to support their children. I believe we should "collect child support". If jail, wage garnishment and property confiscation don't collect child support today then refusal to grant a drivers license may have no impact on collection either.

Its a bad idea.

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bankboy119 8 years, 6 months ago

I like that one blue haha. But seriously, you want them to pay so you take away their license so they can't get to work? Brilliant. Didn't we have this story a couple weeks ago?

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neopolss 8 years, 6 months ago

We have some serious problems with the child support policies. As someone who has paid mine on time for over three years, it is no easy feat. This is a backwards policy. It makes as much sense as a credit card charging you fees and interest when you cannot pay. How does fining a person MORE money help them pay off existing debt? It is the same scenario. How does making it harder to earn a living make it easier to pay child support?

One of the biggest cruxes with child support is that unlike alimony, it is not claimable on your taxes. If we truly want to support families, this would be an enormous help. I pay roughly 20-25% of my monthly income into child support (it was 50% at one point), and pay taxes on all 100%. The recipient is not required to report any of that income on their taxes.

The system has another flaw. The ratio of what you pay in child support is not based on existing debt. Meaning if one was already burdened with credit cards and a 50% medical coverage ruling, chances are you are already in debt. It is not considered in determining child support. It is based on gross income alone. The end result for me was chapter 7 bankruptcy. Coupled with the student loans I was paying, it just was not possible to keep up. My child got the money he was required, but I ended up losing almost everything. That's not exactly a very supportive system.

The last problem is there is no incentive for the recipient of child support to work. Child support is based on the incomes of BOTH parents. If she had no job prior, then the father pays for both. If she gets a job later on, he pays less. There is no incentive for the mother to work if it means she gets less money from the father. It becomes a constant power struggle between the two.

Next time we talk about deadbeat dads, again, let's look at all of the issues, and try not to villianize everything. We should be trying to help in our society - this proposal does nothing positive.

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notsomuch 8 years, 6 months ago

I don't agree with taking their licenses but there should be help out there for people that are the working poor and are unable to collect anything from the deadbeat dads. I have one "dad" that is currently $33,000 behind in child support and I am unable to get any help finding him to make him contribute and another that pays when he feels like it and has been back to court several times to show why he can't pay. He is not required to pay a huge portion by any means but he is self employed and can make as much or as little as he wants. He choses to have new cars and motorcycles and pool tables instead of helping to take care of his child. I contribute 100% of my income to the raising of these children not to mention 100% of my time. (as their fathers never take advantage of their visitations) I love my kids but I would also love to take them out to a movie once in awhile or maybe to dinner. I feel sorry for some of the fathers that are getting hammered by the courts but the mothers suffer just as much.

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Soapdish 8 years, 6 months ago

It seems to me that the liscences they're referring to are those that allow them to practice a particular profession, not their drivers liscence. Plenty of doctors, lawyers, construction workers, plumbers, tax preparers, hair dressers, what have you, have to have a liscence to operate. If you threaten their business, they tend to react a lot faster. If you take away their ability to drive, then they can't go to work and fall further behind. Suspending a business liscence takes longer and gives them (the attorney filing the suspension and the suspendee) more time to figure it out.

I'm a fan.

If having a child doesn't slap them into shape, then hitting them in the pocket book usually does.

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samsnewplace 8 years, 6 months ago

And what would pulling their license accomplish? Then dad or mom (whomever is not paying) will not be able to drive to work to earn the money to pay their child support. A better idea would be to garnish wages.

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Manson 8 years, 6 months ago

To the Q of the Day. NO. Garnish wages. w/out a drivers licsence the "father" won't be able to get to his job so he can pay child support. It's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Kinda defeats the purpose.

On another note......The jayhawks got shafted they should be in the top 25.

1.) Beat Oklahoma #18 on Sunday.

2.) Colorado got spanked by Iowa State by 17 Points and didn't loose a spot. Remained at #25

3.) We beat Colorado AT Colorado.

4.) We beat a very good Oklahoma team that BEAT Texas just days before we beat Oklahoma.

5.) We are 2nd in the Confrence at 6-2. Colorado is tied for 3rd at 5-3.

How the hell can Colorado maintain it's spot, loose to a team that isn't even ranked, is at the very best 3rd in it's own confrence, lost to the team that beat a very good and solid #18. AND KU still was behind LSU for votes. Any one of these points on it's own isn't enough to get KU in but all of them together should be quite enough.

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Topside 8 years, 6 months ago

2 Quick points today:

1-i agree with Manson totally. We got the shaft. Had we beaten OU on Saturday we probably would be ranked, but the game was late enough, that probably most peoples votes were in. I think that is why the ACC has Sunday night BBall. Every once in awhile you'll see an upset in the ACC on SUnday night but it never really gets reflected in the polls, because by the time next week rolls around, a team can right the ship.

2- Helllooooooo..Nurse!!

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

First of all the type of parent that doesn't pay child support shows that he/she doesn't really care for the authority of the law anyway, so what is a revoked liscense going to do? Nothing, they are going to drive either way. I think the garnishing wages and then start selling their stuff off in order to fulfill their obligation. Everybody keeps saying that if they get their liscense revoked that the people won't be able to go to work. Whatever, people drive on suspended liscenses or even no liscenses everyday so why would this stop them? I must say when I first saw the idea I thought it was stupid. Who cares if they can't fish, hunt, or camp? Tell somebody that obviously can't pay their bills that they can't pay for a hunting or fishing liscense. I bet they will just go up in arms and start paying child support. Yeah right.

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Manson 8 years, 6 months ago

"It seems to me that the liscences they're referring to are those that allow them to practice a particular profession, not their drivers liscence."-Soapdish

It's still defeating the purpose. We can't take away the ability for these "fathers" to make the very money we are trying to collect.

Neopolss Makes SEVERAL valid points that are serious issues with the current system.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Oh yeah and Manson, I agree. Complete shaft job on KU. I guess it doesn't really matter until later. The Hawks need to just keep doing what they are doing and beat Nebraska on Wednesday. Rock chalk Jayhawk.

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southerngirl 8 years, 6 months ago

As someone who is owed over $9,000 in back child support, I can tell you that garnishment does work-if the deadbeat parent doesn't quit his job as soon as the wages are garnished and/or they are not self employed. The child support enforcement process in Kansas is agonizingly slow. I applied for enforcement the first week in August, 2005 and the children's father did not even receive notice until early December. I gave them full information about where he was living and working, his car tag number, his Social Security number, his friends names and addresses...it was about a six page application that I thoroughly filled out and it took that long. I recently moved to another state and will transfer my case here as they are quite aggressive in pursuing deadbeat parents. Yes, they do take away driver's and other professional and recreational licenses, but they also put deadbeats in jail for the weekend and will bring them to court for frequent updates. I agree that it would not be smart to take away driver's, or other, professional licenses of deadbeat parents, but Kansas does need to be more aggressive in pursuing these folks.

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djazz 8 years, 6 months ago

"restrick their licens"

What's up with all this new spelling?

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sweetpeagj 8 years, 6 months ago

Child support shouldn't be an issue of father or mother paying. Both parents need to do 100% to provide for the children they brought into this world. Trust me, in order for them to get assistance child support is very much counted. It makes me sick when I hear what a drain financially it is on the other parent. You had them, pay for them. Bottom line. You had to pay child support and then had to file bankruptcy? I am sure that is just because of the child support..maybe you should have thought of all your debt before having children. I find it funny that child support is a burden but the parent who gets it is living high off the hog with it right? Child support..rent or mortgage to house the child, groceries to help feed the child, school tuiton so they can go to school, clothes so they aren't naked, electric and gas so they aren't in the dark and hey warm is nice. How much more broken down does it need to get? I have never seen any parent make enough money on child support to live a real life unless the parent is working. Those that use it for a power struggle are not looking out for the child at all. I know that when I got divorced my ex told me I would never recieve a dime in support of HIS kids. Tell me, is that even thinking of the kids and all they have to go without? I wish they had a way that parents had to pay their support all the time but it is too easy for them to find ways to get around it. Will work for cash so it isn't claimed..when some of the parents had been found they QUIT their jobs so oops no support again. I don't think it is so much an issue with how child support is set up but by the deadbeat parents that are out there who will do anything to not have to pay or even visit the child. Taking away their license won't do any good because if they were working and tracked down then you can garnish wages for support. Maybe they should be found and not be able to have food, shelter, a car, electric, or gas then maybe they can better understand what support really means. Without support most of these children do go without a lot of necassary things and have to rely on our welfare system to get basic needs met. I have watched a lot come through the doors at the SRS office struggling to figure out where their next meal comes from without the absent parents help.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

First of all, the question is to RESTRICT the license. And yes, restrict every license he/she has, and prohibit the right to attain more (fishing, hunting, etc.) Restrict the license as you do a teenager learning to drive. Prohibit them from having fun and spending money on themselves, which they should be spending on their kids.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

When I was in college, a guy I knew got the woman he was dating pregnant. They broke up for other reasons before she found out, and decided not to get back together for the kid (wise). He wasn't working, and neither was she, so the state set child support through some automatic formula. He didn't get a job and pay it. She took him to court, and the judge told him he would get a job, and keep it, even if it meant working fast food or shoveling manure, because if he didn't have wages of some sort to garnish within 30 days, he'd spend ten days in county lockup. He pulled his head out right quick and got a job washing dishes.

All these people who say their exes just blow off child support, I don't understand. Is what the judge said to my friend not legal? Has the law changed? Is it different now? I understand if the non-custodial parent can't be found, the courts not being able to force him or her to get a paying job, but when someone dodges child support just by repeatedly going to court and saying, "I don't have any money," I get a little confused.

Another acquaintance has had his assets frozen to encourage him to pay child support. Isn't that an option too? I know the State of Missouri is plain rabid about deadbeat parents. Apparently Kansas is less so.

I don't agree with taking people's licenses if they don't pay child support. I agree with their wages being garnished, with their tax returns being taken, and with them being unable to apply for student loans and such. I even agree that a judge should have the power to tell them that they must find and keep a job that pays them a consistent wage, so the 'self-employment' dodge too many deadbeat dads use can't be a shelter for hiding from your responsibilities. OK, you're self-employed? Great. However, if your self-employment doesn't pay you a wage, you'll need to pick up a second job that does. Taco Bell is usually hiring.

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Manson 8 years, 6 months ago

Great point OB. I have never put too much stock in the polls. It's just that this week was such a glaring oversight. But as the other poster pointed out....it was a late game on Sunday which might have affected our votes. However if that's the case why did Oklahoma drop in their rank? If we kill our next 2 opponets we will place higher than 25.

And oh yeah that Bill Self bashing died down real quick. Just goes to show how ignorant some folks are. The transfer situation is a non-issue for reasons I already pointed out on the day that was the topic here.

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trinity 8 years, 6 months ago

the garnishment is a great idea, until the garnished parent quits the job. restricting licenses of any sort? good idea in theory-but in practice, just more work for already underpaid state workers. then you'll have the conundrum of having to hire more people to take care of this, etc...sigh it's a no-win situation, here.

while we're on the subject...can we figure out what to do with the moms who DO waste the child support?? sure, most use it for it's intended purpose; but, on the other hand-i do know of moms who use it for a fifty dollar set of nails, sixty dollar hair colorizings, clothes, etc...not right but yep it happens. maybe on the prowl for another daddy? who knows. but it does chap my hide to see these gals livin' large while the kids are given second hand stuff, eat junk food, etc.

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sweetpeagj 8 years, 6 months ago

trinity..there are moms like that but are they getting rent paid? electric? gas? They may not feed them well ( this isn't only moms with child support who forget about proper nutrition) nails.$18 fills I know that a lot of them go to the beauty school in Lawrence to get hair done at way below cost prices. I am not disagreeing with you but it isn't always such an expensive process as you make it. Who says they aren't working and making money to be able to afford doing nice things for themselves? I worked two full time jobs and still tried to get second hand things so that my money could stretch farther for the extras the kids and I both had a right to have.

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feeble 8 years, 6 months ago

You can drive to work on a restricted license, and even stop at the grocery store, provided that the stop is "on the way" to or from work.

You cannot drive at all on a suspended license.

The only benefit I can see from such a program would be to keep the individual "in the system."

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

I'm not for restricting driver's licenses. I am for restricting fishing/hunting licenses. I can't stand deadbeat dads (and I know one.) They should be required to have a steady income...even if it means they wash dishes. I am also for making the parent who receives child support accountable for every penny of that money. Sometimes it's the moms that have done all the wrong, but they still get the kids (because they are women) and then they don't spend any of the support money on the kids: Need a Dr.? Call your Dad. Need glasses? Call your Dad. Need clothes? Call your Dad. Hungry? Call dad. I'm sick of a system that is set up to penalize the male no matter what.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

Sweetpea, You hit on another peeve of mine. Going through the grocery line behind some woman with $200 of nails and hair (and that's probably an underestimation) and then paying for her food (if you can call it food) w/ government money. (MY money.)

My beauty supplies: hair...bathroom scissors ($12 but wil last a life time), nail polish...$1/ bottle (and only the toes 'cause if you really WORK then nail polish is useless), and maybe $15 of makeup that will last me 6 months. Note to women: men really don't care! I still try to look "dolled up" every now and then (because I have estrogen) but the hubby finds me equally attractive when I'm cleaning toilets in my sweats! Please men, correct me if I'm wrong. Do you care??? Should I spend $200 a month to look good?

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

We are talking about mothers (and dads) who don't get their child support. There is a minority of parents who receive support and abuse it.
Kansas is ranked 34th in the country for getting funds from deadbeat parents. And do you realize that when the deadbeats don't pay, the kids end up on some sort of welfare, so the taxpayer ends up paying to help support the child. Kansas needs a better system, and fast. Do whatever you need to do to get the deadbeats to pay.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Good point Bowhunter. You have to file that SS in order to start working most places and usually it is on your paycheck, so I say direct deposit would be a good way to go and directly deposit the portion to the child support receiver in their account and the rest in the payer's. I don't see it being that difficult. And thank you sunflower sue for sticking up for guys. Not all dads are deadbeats but it is the receiver sometimes that are deadbeats and take advantage of the system.

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angelofmine 8 years, 6 months ago

I'll just post my response to the article here as well....I agree...something needs to be done. Something also needs to be done for the people that DO pay their support, on time, every single month. I know a man that pays $612 for one child every month, has never been late, never missed a payment. So they raise it every other year since they actually collect.

Wage garnishment is already a somewhat ineffective option....depending on how hard the deadbeat tries to dodge it. I have an ex that qualifies as a "job hopper" that dodges garns before they can go through, moving on to the next job. It takes about two weeks to a month for those garnishments to hit, depending on how cooperative the employer is. Also, child support enforcement has to have a report of employment by the deadbeat. If they're working for some under the table construction company, you're out of luck. Other states have the option of restricting their driving privileges, and I think the restriction on hunting and fishing licenses is a good idea also.

Lucky for me I've got a great job, and have learned not to depend on that extra money OR the state for my daughter's daycare, clothing, dance classes, etc. The minute you depend on it, its gone again. My child is four years old this month. I have received six $180 payments. Total.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

no you shouldn't spend $200 a month to look good. If your man doesn't find you attractive without makeup then there might be some problems.

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trinity 8 years, 6 months ago

sweet, i am speaking of gals i know personally. and yes the children do without. and the families live in subsidized housing and think it's a riot they only have to pay a minimal amount of rent. besides that, i've got several friends who are beauticians/stylists, that do command those prices-and GET it, when the child support rolls in.

now, i am in NO WAY making these examples the whole, so please don't misconstrue my post that way. but it does indeed happen, there is absolutely no denying that.

this whole issue is just another one of those that we'll likely never see satisfactory resolution to, but have to live with forever. i hate it too. and i've been on both ends of the paying and receiving child support, when my older ones were young and then when my youngest lived with her father for awhile.

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mefirst 8 years, 6 months ago

yeah, take away their license. that way they won't be able to drive to work and pay the child support they owe. good idea.

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enochville 8 years, 6 months ago

Lots of good points today! I especially liked neopolss, Manson, and badger.

I feel very strongly about making sure people pay child support. But, taking licenses is dumb because people have to earn money so that they can pay child support. I think parents who are incarcerated should work in the jail and thereby pay child support. (I know some prisons allow prisoners to work within the prison, but I feel all prisons that have extended stay prisoners should make their prisoners work to pay any financial obligations).

I was very disappointed that KU wasn't ranked this week, but I hope they rise a lot in the RPI on Wednesday.

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sweetpeagj 8 years, 6 months ago

I am not thinking that Trinity..I do understand that there will always be those that abuse the systems that are there for REAL needs. I have never recieved a dime in support and thankfully, I worked my butt off. I never worked while married but as soon as I made the choice to get divorced I knew he wasn't going to help at all. I also do now men and women ( because the dads are getting a better chance to get custody thank you judges that see beyond mammary glands) who do everything right after divorce and the other parent just keeps trying to mess with them. I just feel that it takes two to make the baby and both need to make sure they do the best they can after the relationship and stop the ugly that happens. I am sick and tired of people whinning about child support and visitation when reality still is is that it is BOTH parents for life. If people could get over the anger, hurt or whatever emotion is contributing to not do everything they can for their children. Stop punishing your children because of the ex partner. They deserve better and have every right to have everything BOTH parents can give. Love, guidance, morals, values, standrads, plus all the basic requirements. Why should children suffer because someone thinks that since the relationship is over the kids don'e exist.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

s_s:

No, you shouldn't have to spend $200 a month to look or feel pretty.

Others -

Why they can't just flag the SSN:

Different agencies. Your employer reports your employment to Social Security, and Social Security reports that income to state agencies (Child Support Enforcement's not the only one people can owe and be garnished for; you also lose some welfare benefits as soon as your job is reported to the state) on a predetermined schedule.

Then the agency has to notify your employer you're subject to garnishment and confirm your wages so they can calculate the amount (it's based on both what you owe and what you make, and can't be more than a certain percentage of your income), and your employer has to notify you, and then it starts on the next check. If your employer is sympathetic to you, he may do things like report that you're a 'part-time' employee scheduled 16-24 hours a week at $8 an hour and then call you in for 'extra' shifts at 'bonus' wages (I've known people whose employers were sympathetic to deadbeat parents).

Your employer is then responsible for taking the amount out of your wages and sending it to the government, which sends it on to the custodial parent.

Because of the sheer number of payroll systems and ways people can be given their money by their employers, it's just not possible to set up any sort of uniform system of direct deposit straight from the noncustodial parent to the child. That would also require that someone be the custodian for that child's bank account, and many people cannot have checking accounts for one reason or another, resulting in more government red tape to deal with that.

Now, the system speeds up a little if the custodial parent can report where the NCP is working as soon as the job starts, but if someone works under the table or seasonally it can be nearly impossible to get a steady stream of support from them.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

mefirst,

It's not taking away their licenses, just RESTRICTING.

The article does say that after a certain amount is owed, they may suspend the license. Now, that doesn't make sense unless the state will drive them to work.

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Centrist 8 years, 6 months ago

In some other countries they use the TAX system to collect child support. It's very effective, as long as the payer has a job. Hmm ... oh wait, that's "too much government", right?

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glockenspiel 8 years, 6 months ago

Driving is a privelage, not a right. However I cannot see the correlation between child support and driving a car.

Furthermore, do you have any idea how much money it would cost the state to integrate databases between the SRS, DMV, and KDWP and insurance claims? Millions. How about garnishing wages? Coming up with complex solutions only causes complex problems.

We need some kind of non-money, non-incarceration punishment in this country. Caning gets my vote. Nothing like a good old fashioned spanking! :-)

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sweetpeagj 8 years, 6 months ago

thank god you don't have to spend money to look good. I know the first lesson my dad taught me is why bother..it will end up on some pillow and then they will see the real you anyway. If a person is more concerned with how their hair is done or makeup just right nails out to here.........then they aren't going to be worried as much about real issues in life and it isn't wether you can measure up to someone elses unreal expectations..if only we all had airbrushes we can look like every model out there. You want to feel good about yourself? Hug your child really tight and tell them you love them. Best "feel good mediciine" in the world.

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Jeff Goodrick 8 years, 6 months ago

It would be something else the state would screw up, it took them a year and a half to get mine straighten out. I would write a check to KPC and 14 to 30 days later they would write and send me a check back, - the 5% handling fee. Then they got confused about a 25 payday year instead of a 26 payday year and that put me on the deadbeat list and they garnished my pay checks and then sent me a checks for another 6 months. What's bad is Im not the only guy I know this has happened to.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

Combine militant and glockenspeil's ideas and I think we've got our solution. OK, I think we're done here today! Good teamwork!:O)

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

If you take away their license, they can't work and support their kids - I have read that line in some sort of form several times now.

But the point is - THEY AREN'T SUPPORTING THEIR KIDS!!

Restricting, and then suspending their license might give them a reality check. Since they aren't supporting their kids, their income is only for themselves. Limit their parties, dates, whatever they do with their income besides pay their child support.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

AND to those parents who pay their child support, and do your job as a parent - HATS OFF TO YOU!!

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Soapdish 8 years, 6 months ago

Nice thread jack. Child support and basketball are holding the same weight? Don't think so.

Restricting the liscence never said "You can't work now." Furthermore it's not just "fathers" who don't pay. Quotations or no, it's a stereotype. They do tag SSN's, they track in ways most haven't even thought of, but sometimes a liscence is the best way to put the squeeze on people who don't find it necessary to pay for their responsibiliity.

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Ceallach 8 years, 6 months ago

Remember the Q of the day was regarding "restricting" their licenses, not removing or revoking. I say restrict anything you can . . . because deadbeats will find ways to circumvent the majority of the restrictions anyway.

While some women may not budget and spend their child support the way their ex thinks they should, most of them receive far short of half of the expenses necessary to raise a child/children. Don't forget that rent, utilities, car payments, all these things should be underwritten by support whenever possible. So working women, who are traditionally paid less than men, are carrying more than half of their childrens expenses and getting b####ed at about how they spend it. You can see how that might cause a bit of tension (perhaps PMS, for a single mom, stands for Pay Me Sucker!!)

I think it was neo that mentioned the need for fathers to be able to deduct their support payments. I agree that just that one step might increase the motivation for sacrificing throughout the year to support your child/childen. It is not easy when two households are tapping your wages, and often it was not the "supporter" who even wanted the divided house.

Now for the most important thing :) the hawklets are certainly working hard to earn their place among ranked teams. I'm not giving up on them.

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glockenspiel 8 years, 6 months ago

ok, suspend someone's license who can't afford to pay child support. They have to drive anyway, and so they do. They get pulled over, get a ticket for driving with a suspended license. Now they have to pay that fine too. They might also have to pay to get their car out of the impound. Now, after they've been set back a few hundered dollars, you expect them to pay child support? No. The worst thing you can do to someone in a hole, is to dig a bigger hole. Pretty soon they hit water and they drown.

Yes, its their fault for living outside of their means, but you know it will happen. This won't fix anything! The only thing it will do is make a muddled mess out of an already complicated situation.

People hear an idea about punishing "bad" people and it sounds great, but you have to think about the consequences and be able to MEASURE the results.

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onehotmomma 8 years, 6 months ago

Still amazes me that you have to take a test to drive, but any idiot can pro-create.

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ms_canada 8 years, 6 months ago

Lots of good ideas here this morning. Too bad we can't sterilize deadbeat parents. I like the suggestion of putting a deadbeat in jail on weekends. If he has been court ordered to pay a certain amount each month then it seems to me that he would be breaking the law if he doesn't pay. Put him in jail on his days off. A couple of those little vacations might change his mind about things. No to the license thing, that would be just plain stupid and I don't believe it would work anyway. Canadian laws are a bit different. Upon divorce here a father is ordered to pay so much and if he doesn't wages are garnisheed. But of course, as has been mentioned more than once, deadbeats find ways to get around that. One difference that I noticed, here it is the father who can claim the child support on his tax form and the mother that must pay taxes on that support. That is just plain ridiculous. I also liked the above suggestion of castration. threaten a guy with that and I'll bet cheques will come flying. You know, we have so many laws in our countries governing all kinds of behaviour, but it seems that we can irresponsibly bring little ones into this world and then forget all about them. It is downright criminal and I would think that a responsible government should try every means to protect those little ones no matter how harsh it seems. No government can legislate morality but they sure as he(( can legislate behaviour.

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Liberty 8 years, 6 months ago

To insure coverage for the children, the child's parent should have to justify how the money is being spent for the child on a routine basis and that it is necessary for the child, to the other parent. Second, the parent that is receiving the child support money should have to show that they are also providing just as much income for the support for the child. (They should have equal financial responsiblity to raise the child).

Revoking a drivers license will simply force the person out of the system. This would be counter productive from the courts point of view. The court enters in because the couple obtained a marriage license (from what I understand). This is what makes the state a 3rd financial partner of the product of the marriage relationship of the man and woman. If you don't get a marriage license, it probably leaves the state out.

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staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

Another way to deal with it is to insist that our president and the Congress stop slashing Child Support Enforcement from the budget in order to pay for tax cuts as they have done in the two most recent annual budgets, one of which will be signed into law tomorrow afternoon by President Bush. In Kansas alone, the staff in the Child Support Enforcement division of SRS has been cut by 90% in recent years.

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notsomuch 8 years, 6 months ago

Badger-flagging a SS # only works when the parent works and lives in the same state as the order. I have been trying for 18 years to collect child support from a man that lives in another state and continues to hide, quit jobs or work for cash. He bounces bewteen 2 states to live so no one is sure where to find him. I have been trying for the last three years (through the state of Nebraska) to get them to send my case to the Interstate child support collection agency. But because of red tape I keep getting the run around. I call every month and I get the same answer....."The case manager is preparing the paperwork for interstate....." how flipping long does it take???

I applaude those that do take care of their responsibility, like my brother that pays $800 a month for 1 child. He pays it and never complains. He knows that it is going to pay for his son and however his ex choses to use that money he is confident that some or most of it goes to pay daily living costs.

I work hard to take care of my family and I too have found ways (not welfare) to make sure that I am not dependant on Child Support. It is just the extras that we miss out on. I know my ex isn't missing out on any vacations or movies or new vehicles, that is where the frustration comes from.

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notsomuch 8 years, 6 months ago

Just wanted to claify my idea of extras.

1) shopping for clothes and shoes at a store other than the Goodwill (thank God for the goodwill)

2) buying 2 loaves of bread and 2 gallons of milk at the grocery store in one trip.

3) filling up my gas tank at one stop and not just $5 or $10 dollars here and there.

4) Bumping my thermostat over 62 degrees once in awhile for grins and giggles.

Nothing extravagant just extras.......

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enochville 8 years, 6 months ago

The thought occurred to me that child support would not be an issue if both parents were still in a relationship with each other. I know that there are good reasons not to stay in a relationship. But, I am more interested in learning about the beginning of your relationships and how you found yourself with the other person as your partner in parenting a child. Is there anything to learn from who you choose in the beginning that can be passed on to others?

I believe failed relationships are in part due to what is done after the relationship begins, but also due in part to carelessly choosing the partner in the beginning.

Since this topic is straying from the original one, I have created a separate thread for you to record your ideas: http://www2.ljworld.com/forums/open/general/26/

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mefirst 8 years, 6 months ago

Mom of 3--After they fall behind $500, their license is suspended, RESTRICTED whatever. EIther way, they can't drive.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

mefirst- If they aren't paying their child support, it shouldn't matter if they can drive to a job or not. They are not doing their duty as a parent.

A tax credit for paying child support - it may make fathers pay to receive tax credit, but then you may be punishing the married parents. Personally, why reward someone for something they are supposed to do anyway, and would be doing if they were still married, and an active participant in a family relationship. Maybe a tax credit to be received when the child turns 18, and all the child support is paid. Don't punish for a late payment here or there, but if the child support was paid. I am really surprised to NOT see more upset responses about the fact that if child support is not paid, some children become the responsibility of the state, via welfare or other programs.

If they are truly deadbeats, why should they get to drive to their jobs to earn money for their own lives?? If they are truly deadbeats, take away their license, fine them when they get caught driving without it, and give the money to the kids... Who cares if they are get in a hole or a vicious cycle if they are a deadbeat....they don't pay anything anyway.

It seems some care more about the welfare of the deadbeat parent then the welfare of the children.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

ottr - since the money to be paid to the child is income from the parent, taxes should still be paid on the money. If they don't pay taxes on that, then that is another potential loophole for the rich.
The person receiving the child support doesn't have to pay taxes because the payee already did.

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enochville 8 years, 6 months ago

Mom of three: Many posters including myself are upset that some parents aren't paying child support. But, don't confuse a non-support of suspending driver's licences as condoning failure to pay child support.

Those of us who don't support the suspension of driver's licences realize that you cannot squeeze blood out of a rock. What is more important: getting money for the child or punishing the "deadbeat parent"? You can't get any money out of someone who doesn't have a job because they cannot get to work and the child still has no money.

We are with you in getting the child support, but we think there are better ways to do it than taking their driver's licence. You may disagree and that is fine, but do not question our support of the children involved, or suggest that we care more for the adult than the child.

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thisiknow 8 years, 6 months ago

I did not take one dime in c/support when I divorced YEARS ago. Instead I stayede in the house and the ex paid the mortgage. Worked for us. I think all deadbeat dads should be threatened with military service if they do not pay!! Even with a disability they could work in warehouses and behind a desk. Their paycheck would then be garnished for the kids and they would also be on his insurance.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

never thought of military service.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

So why let them drive and have a life when they don't pay their child support. They aren't supporting their children anyway, just their own lifestyles. If they do without for a while, maybe they would wise up.....

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notsomuch 8 years, 6 months ago

I can tell you from experience that suspending a driver's license does not work. My son's father has been driving for 4 years on a suspended license. Doesn't seem to bother him, that is until he gets caught. But living in another state makes it tough to call the police and report him.

Military service.....cleaning latrines.....I would love to see that.

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mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

Enochville, sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Now, with that said....This bill is better than nothing. Maybe if the deadbeats did without something, they would better understand what their children could be going through.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

Liberty said:

"If you don't get a marriage license, it probably leaves the state out."

What?

Where on earth did that come from? You know that you don't have to have been married to the custodial parent to pay child support, right?

Enochville speaks very wisely. My opposition to it is not because I don't believe that noncustodial parents should be held fully accountable for the support of their children, but because I'd rather see effort and money go into programs I think have a reasonable chance of real fiscal return for the kids.

notsomuch, I sympathize with your plight. Interstate support enforcement is a nightmare, and that's not right. You may be being hurt, actually, by the fact that you're not claiming welfare. Since the state's not out any money in your case, they have less of an interest in fast-tracking you or kicking you to the top of a priority list. If you were on welfare, then the state would be much more hot and bothered to go after your ex across state lines, because they'd be looking to recoup their own fiscal loss. They have no real direct incentive to put your case ahead of someone who is costing the state money, and CSE caseworkers are stretched so thinly that they never get very far down the list.

Have you tried scheduling a meeting with your caseworker instead of calling? Start specifically asking what progress has been made, what steps have been taken, and what still needs to be done on your file. It helps to say, "What exactly must you do to 'prepare my file?' OK, I've written that down. I'll be calling for weekly progress reports, and if I can't get hold of you I'm sure your supervisor, or your supervisor's supervisor, can give them to me. Who shall I ask for if you can't take a call?" Start asking to talk to supervisors, and write a letter to every elected official you can find, starting with your local State Congressperson and working up to the President if need be. It sounds like a lot of work, but really it's a matter of five or ten minutes a week to call, and another five to address a prepared letter to the next elected official up the ladder.

Document everything, and if you see no progress in six weeks or so, start calling news stations, say about mid-March to give them time to run a May sweeps story about a poor working mother getting the runaround from the people who are supposed to help her while her ex laughs at the court system.

I might have seen this done to good effect once or twice...

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BunE 8 years, 6 months ago

Did you know that if you have a common law marriage, you have to get a divorce?

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Angel_A 8 years, 6 months ago

i think it's sad that some people don't want to help take care of their kids just because they dislike the mom. it's called growing up, some things are more important then continuing a fight. i have personally known men who have taken jobs and had them pay them under the table just so they can't garnish wages, and they don't have to claim it as part of their income. so something does need to be reformed, but taking away someone's license i don't think will do it.

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Linda Aikins 8 years, 6 months ago

Badger, I seldom read posts more than 10 lines long. I read all of yours. Good stuff.

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Linda Aikins 8 years, 6 months ago

U N L E S S

O M B

P O S T S

I T.

T H A N K S.

G

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

Gootsie -

snicker

I

l i k e

o m b ' s

l o n g

p o s t s

t o o !

Thank you for your kind words, by the way!

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oldfashiongirl 8 years, 6 months ago

Been there, done that!!

When my ex died in 1987 he owed me about $28,000 in child support payments for 2 children. If you added 10% interest annually it would be $81,200, not adding anything for the years up to 1987 that he paid minimum amounts.

Going through the courts is a waste of time and money. First he moved from Virginia, our home state to Maryland, then to Missouri, then to Colorado and then to Kentucky and he would move around, always costing me filing fees and my having to have 2 extra jobs to pay the bills. It hurt so much when he married the pregnant slut and all of a sudden his children by me did not count anymore.

His wife never worked another day in her life, so I felt that I was supporting her, since he didn't use his money to care for our two kiddies.

To top this all off, he was driving to Kentucky and pulling a moving trailer of their belongings, when the axle broke and he and his other family of 3 were stranded on side of a mountain road in Colorado and he had no money, no family in the U.S. to help him, so he asked me if I would wire him $2500.00 to get his car fixed and pay for food and hotel until he could travel. Being the Christian I am (I really wanted to tell him he had made his bed, now lie it) I thought of what I would do if in the same situation. I called my lawyer and told him to draw up a note and have both of them sign it, which they did, and I wired it to some bank. They paid it back, but never any of the child support. He became a Christian, too, and I like to feel I did the right thing in taking the high road.

No, taking the driver's license would not help you collect.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

Let's take a moment to applaud all the dads out there who: always pay their child support; pay for tons of other "stuff" for their kids because the mother gets her own stuff with their child support money; have to live (as grown men) with their parents because they no longer have the money for even a crappy apartment; who are there for their kids 24-7; and who don't complain that he wasn't the cause of the divorce because he believes that his children should love their mother, even if she is a lying, cheating, good for nothing...... Oh, I digress!

And if there are any women out there like this (and I'm sure there are), we applaud you, too.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

oldfashioned, I've not been there or done that, but I think you are made of better stuff than I. I see my brother taking the high road constantly and although I know he's doing the right thing, I don't know that I could were it me. I would have probably left that sob on the side of the mountain wishing him to be eaten by a bear! Your road to Heaven is undoubtedly paved while mine is still missing a few bricks!

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angelofmine 8 years, 6 months ago

offtotheright- You're quite correct. "In the end you are rewarded."

I am rewarded every single blessed day that I have my little girl in my life. You can't focus on what you have to do without (because so and so doesn't care enough to pay support). Its hard to leave her to work, but our life is so much better because of it. I have a great job, and working outside the home makes you even more grateful for the time you have with your child. I've been told to apply for state assistance and refused, and we got through it without that crutch. I'm proud to say it CAN be done!

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YourItalianPrincess 8 years, 6 months ago

I don't get child support and its court ordered. I have been raising my 2 boys on my own their entire life. I'm at the point where child support would be nice, but who gives a rats @$$ anymore. I'm tired of fighting the system and doing their job for them.

Heres the motto I posted under the story........

When the check " Comes In " thats great. I don't consider child support part of my " Income " though.

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been_there 8 years, 6 months ago

I never recieved child support from my ex for my two sons, but remarried someone who did pay his child support. Believe me, at times it was rough. I agree that someone who pays child support should get to claim it on their taxes. My ex got great pleasure, and let me know it, that I would never get a dime from him. When my sons turned 18 he thought he could just waltz back in and claim his fatherly rights. Was he ever in for a shock, they would have nothing to do with him for what he had put us through. Even when my son was seriously injured and almost died, he refused to let him come to see him in the hospital. He has no idea if they are married or have kids. Also, they were told by a lawyer after they were 18 that they could sue him for back child support even though he was never order by the court to do so. They would have done it except over the years he had made several death threats against and they were afraid for us. But maybe someone else can use the idea. Yes, we reported the threats to the police, no help there.

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misseve 8 years, 6 months ago

I think the Child support system is completely flawed. Being that i am a single mom i know how important the extra support is but also being the ex wife of a man that was ordered to pay i see it from his point of view as well. I make enough money to take care of my children the money we get from the ex is to get the stuff i cant when money is a bit tight. I have seen the non working mothers raking it in and spending the money on themselves instead of the kids or making sure they have food or lights, water or heat. We need a better way to enforce the support not another way for the deadbeat parents to get around paying it.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 6 months ago

nudist, someone has too much time on their hands...but that was fun to read. Thanks for the laugh!

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

Nudist?

That was tremendously amusing. Thank you.

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bearded_gnome 8 years, 6 months ago

Nudey! that was really funny and shows very strong effort, turn it over and show your work for your "A."

oh, you forgot, at his restaurant, special sales were advertised with decorative but outlawed balloons which caught fire because illegal smoking was going on inside. however, inside he was yet relaxed because he'd had his pot smoking for the day.

thanks Nudist. f

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bearded_gnome 8 years, 6 months ago

oh, the "f" at the end of that last post was just superscilious...z

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Applied_Logic 8 years, 6 months ago

<<>>>

THE LAWS ARE FLAWED AND NEED REVISED! No, to the question. People who don't pay work very hard not too and couldn't care less about the law AND if they avoid it long enough the state quits trying. My aunt received a letter telling her the state would no longer pursue her ex for the 27,000 he owed.

The 'dead-beat dad' and 'father' usage is infuriating! There are more than some dead-beat mothers out there. Thanks again, Bill Clinton!

To the women that worked two jobs I applaud you, you are the 'some' not the majority today regardless of what many think. The truth is there is a majority of men/women on the receiving end of 'mailbox money' that use it for their own ends, don't work and are not held accountable for showing their "portion" of child support. The state really couldn't care less if the custodial parent is earning anything or where the child support is really being spent. All they care about is whether or not it's being paid.

As to the rent, utilities etc. The custodial parent would have to have those things for themselves with or without children so the childs portion of that expense is divided by the # of people in the household!

It should be either taken out before taxes or claimed by both sides! That is an INCOME for the receiving parent. If they were still together, medical bills, broken down vehicles, lay offs etc. would be suffered through together. But if you're the one who pays nobody cares as long as the check is in the mail, get behind and they increase it. Don't think about making a job change, because a cut in pay is not they're problem, you've proven you can make X amount so make it.

Got to love the phrases the state uses as well, such as 'incidentally benefitting' and 'free income'.

And the crowning jewel: A 17 and 1/2 child joins the military, off to boot camp and gone, but the child support still rolls in until he's 18! The custodial parent has no financial obligation what-so-ever because he's the property of the US Military, but the $$ is still hers. Why, because it's the law!

I receive and make child support payments out of my household and the more I deal with it the more I see that the paying parent has no rights, no say without an attorney they can't afford and no one cares.

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misseve 8 years, 6 months ago

My ex wanted to go out of the country but the state department said nope you cant get a passport so when he heard that i got a nice fat check in the mail. Honestly if he can afford to go out of the country he can pay his child support. I didnt get pregnant alone and I dont think i should be paying for the school expences, clothing, medical, dental and other costs alone. In GA if you are a day or 2 late you are being picked up. Did you know that Kansas ranks 34th in child support enforcement? 34th!!! that is crazy. I remember sitting in court listening to a man tell the judge he didnt see why he owed over $40K because his children were grown... OMG what a moron.. you still owe your ex wife! DUH!... ok Im so leaving this alone now

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lonelyboy 8 years, 6 months ago

I think the LJW should do another top 10 list on the front page. The top 10 Douglas County Deadbeats . I believe humiliation is good thing for these people. Some act as if it is OK not to pay ,, besides some of those people are still running from the last top 10 . . misseve ,, your right they owe the parent that took care of these children." Fat, lazy and stupid is know way to go through life "

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